Apple Movie Store Only Serving Disney Films? 190
Alex Romanelli, Variety writes "Variety has the scoop on Apple and Amazon's forthcoming movie download services. Apple's will launch with only Disney as a partner. Amazon will have most, and possibly all, of the major studios on board. The reason comes down to price, insiders said.
Amazon.com will launch its movie download service later this week, numerous sources confirmed, while Apple will start selling films on Tuesday as part of iTunes."
Misleading headline, and more info (Score:5, Insightful)
"The only studio that will definitely [emphasis added] be part of Apple's movie store at launch is Disney.
So that still doesn't preclude other studios being on board at the time of launch [macworld.com]. Even so, it still goes on to say:
"Other studios will likely join iTunes in the next year."
Further:
"The reason Amazon will have content from most major studios, while Apple may have only one, comes down to price, insiders said. Because it also sells DVDs, Amazon has agreed to studio demands that digital wholesale prices not undercut those of DVDs. [emphasis added] As a result, Amazon.com's digital download prices are expected to range from $9.99 to $19.99 -- about the same as those for other online retailers such as CinemaNow, Movielink and AOL.
Initially, Apple was pushing to sell all films for $9.99, just as it sells songs for a flat price of 99 and all TV shows for $1.99. But due to studio pressure, it will launch with two price points: $9.99 for library titles, $14.99 for new pics in the DVD window."
Not only is this the same type of behavior we saw to a certain extent with iTunes in the context of music, and moreso with television programming, I'm quite glad that Apple is pressuring the industry on the price issue, similar to the way they took a significant part in pressuring MPEG LA [com.com] for reasonable licensing terms [com.com], which made the MPEG-4 family of protocols, including H.264/MPEG-4 Part 10, actually usable by normal people for content creation, broadcasting, and playback without the encumbrances of royalties and per-use/per-time fees that would have all but killed MPEG-4 and H.264 on anything but OEM devices and commercial broadcast services.
Then there's the question of usability: the same thing that has made the iTunes universe so attractive to users is still there as it has transitioned to video. It's not just a simple "download a media file and do with it what you will" service (though it can be treated as such; note I'm not talking about this in the context of DRM, I'm speaking in terms of the process via which you download something and play it) - it's a completely integrated system that normal people can actually use that has a pleasant user experience. With things like Front Row [apple.com] now shipping on all of Apple's systems, they've created an end-to-end solution that actually makes viewing, using, or listening to the content a tightly integrated experience that "just works". The turnkey nature of iTunes/iPod/Front Row has been one of the key reasons for its continuing success.
Re:Misleading headline, and more info (Score:5, Insightful)
(though it can be treated as such; note I'm not talking about this in the context of DRM, I'm speaking in terms of the process via which you download something and play it)
I haven't looked into these services recently, but it does intrigue me. Will the DRM that holds the files down enable me to put the video file on my 2 TB storage server in the basement and stream it to my media player of choice? Because if not, this is useless to me. With the advent of large hard disk capacity, and now digital distribution, we certainly have the ability. But I don't want to watch movies on my PC, and getting a dedicated Media Center PC is ridiculous. I want to be able to watch it on any of the three TVs in my house. And why would I get a digital download that costs the same as a normal DVD just so I can have the "convenience" of watching a movie on my PC (and little screened iPod Video)?
The cost of fuel notwithstanding, why don't I just buy the physical DVD (or get it shipped to me), and get the video file myself? [google.com] I realize it's a convenience thing, non-tech users can't do it, etc. But really, how hard is it to install some software and follow some short instructions? I'd bet that even non-tech users would be willing to follow the process if they can get additional value out of something they own with relatively minor frustration.
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It won't go to any device, but your DVD player can't download movies anyway. It will take a 'compatable' player, and Apple will probably have standard outs for normal TVs on it.
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Good to know that they are thinking about it. Is this device rumored to be cheaper than an original Xbox? Cause I soft-modded my Xbox to run XBMC, and I just run movies and music off of a samba share. And XBMC does a lot more than that.
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Of course, it could just replace it at the same price.
Re:Misleading headline, and more info (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps.
If your "choice" happens to coincide with QuickTime, iTunes, or an iPod for playback when using the Apple store, or a Windows Media-compatible playback solution if using one of the Windows Media DRM stores.
But you can certainly put the files physically on any type of NAS or SAN or storage server or whatever storage device you see fit.
There are of course various tools for stripping the DRM from iTunes DRM (FairPlay) and Windows Media DRM encumbered files.
The cost of fuel notwithstanding, why don't I just buy the physical DVD (or get it shipped to me), and get the video file myself?
Well, if it's that important to you that it be completely DRM-free in the context of your own entertainment equipment and uses, future applications, etc., then sure - get the DVD and rip the video. The problem is that this is technically "illegal" in certain jurisdictions, and that a great many people will think it's "too complicated". If you're talking about it from a purely technical point of view, someone like yourself probably should just buy and rip the DVD.
I realize it's a convenience thing, non-tech users can't do it, etc.
That's the key: Convenience. Impulse. (Almost-)instant gratification. Total vertical integration. In the context of Apple's iTunes store, it "just works".
You hit the nail on the head.
But really, how hard is it to install some software and follow some short instructions? I'd bet that even non-tech users would be willing to follow the process if they can get additional value out of something they own with relatively minor frustration.
You might think that, but it's simply not true. They're not going to be downloading DVD ripping tools and uploading video files to their 2TB in-house media server and then setting up MythTV on their new Linux media center. They're going to get a Mac mini, hook its DVI connector up to their HDTV, click on the movie poster in iTunes, click "Download" automatically charging their credit card $9.99, and then plop down on their couch and watch it with the nice little remote control. All without having to know how to do anything, and trust me: that's how the majority of people want things.
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You might think that, but it's simply not true.
Thinking about it again, I'd have to agree. I have trouble getting my non technical friends to use CDex to rip music because they are intimidated by the options. They'd much rather just use whatever has the fewest clicks, even if it doesn't produce the best quality.
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I can and do help them set up options, but some of them just Don't Get It. I know how simple CDex is when it's set up too, that's why it's frustrating when they dislike it. All they seem to want is something pretty with limited options, and they don't care about anything else. Tech-illiterate is closer to the truth for them, and they fear those little check boxes if they accidentally open up the Options. There's little I can do to help with that.
I imagine that these people would buy into a movie downl
Re:Misleading headline, and more info (Score:5, Insightful)
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Neither of the "A"s in "AAC" stand for "Apple." AAC is an industry-standard MPEG audio layer, just like MP3 is, and is every bit as "flexible." It just happens to be one which delivers better sound with fewer bits.
If you are worried about formats becoming obsolete, then there are only two good choices for archiving your music:
1. Uncompressed
2. Lossless compression (such as FLAC or Apple Lossless)
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I don't know about all of you, but IF I'm going to pay $20 for a DVD, I want a CD and case with it....
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Re:Misleading headline, and more info (Score:4, Interesting)
My only question is resolution (Score:3, Insightful)
I imagine this will cause some difficulties- at the moment, iTunes can simply transfer TV shows on to iPods, but if you downloaded a 480p movie, the iPod wouldn't be able to play it- imagine iTunes having to convert multiple 2-hour video files from 480p to 320x240 every time it syncs with the PC...that could take quite a while, especially on older machi
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Re:My only question is resolution (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, you are correct about the disparity in general between watching something on a portable device, versus a nice big TV. Hopefully Apple handles this gracefully, because people won't want 320x240 movies (though, even the 320x240 TV shows are not bad on a standard def TV, for most peoples' tastes).
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I don't think a 640x480 iPod will come until next year, or the end of this year.
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iTMS videos are noticeably worse than Full D1 (720x480) standard-definition captures, actually. I've purchased the same episode of a show I recorded, hoping the all-digital MP4 would be better. It's not. Th
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iTunes Music Store name (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:iTunes Music Store name (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:iTunes Music Store name (Score:4, Funny)
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Price is important (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll probably try Apple's service. Wiht their TV shows on iTunes, the problem has been lack of variety. That will apparently continue to be a problem with films on this service.
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You would likely be able to get better quality too by using a lower compression or none at all. Buying from Amazon or iTunes won't do much if your HD craps out. So what will you do? Back them up to DVD's? Gets rather pointless. It woudl be far better to spend the same amount or a bit more on a rather uncompressed (though still compressed) version of the movie, hard copy, case, extras, and then do th
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when they made the DVD format they didn't want people copying them and that's what's stopping me now..
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You can create an iso image of the decrypted files. Single file, uncompressed backup that should be directly playable by any decent software dvd player.
Vault Disney (Score:2)
In my experience, the DVDs that are most likely to be played often enough to have to be re-bought due to scratches are DVDs of family/children's films. The problem is that one of the movie studios best known for family/children's films is the one that makes titles available for sale to the public only for a 6-month window every 10 years.
I just buy the
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I've done this with CDs for years, as I imagine many others do. The first thing I do after I get an audio CD is rip it to ~224 Kbit OGG files and place the files on my storage server downstairs. I can play the audio through my computer, my portable player, and any TV which has a media player device like XBMC. Once I upgrade my storage server with more space (and get a better backup policy than I have now), I'll move on to ripping video from all DVDs.
I'm thinking of picking up another original Xbox (or
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1) Buy the physical disk on Amazon.com
2) Get the digitally-delivered copy immediately
I have no clue if they're going to offer that, but there's not really anyone else in the market that can.
No story here... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let Disney show 'em it works, then they'll fall all over themselves to join in, just like the music folks did...
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138 million shares, or 6.3 percent of outstanding stock
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Great for "the masses", Funtionally useless for us (Score:3, Interesting)
No thanks. Until they sell me a non-drm'ed movie download I can watch with xine/mplayer on my Solaris/Sparc desktop, I'll stick to the pirate bay...
Re:Great for "the masses", Funtionally useless for (Score:2, Insightful)
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Last time I checked, H.264 was far from a crappy format. What you say are "our real needs" is so far off from reality that it makes me laugh, especially if you're talking about the regular users. Just look at the iPod as proof of success. What makes it so popular isn't the fact that it's white
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This is a grossly offensive and inappropriate analogy. Almost nobody likes DRM, but the fact is that most studios wouldn't allow Apple or others to sell them as downloads without it. $14.99 is still cheaper than the cost of 2 people to see a movie at the theater (in most areas), and often times less expensive than the retail DVD. Simply because you don't like DRM doesn't give
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This is a grossly offensive and inappropriate analogy.
It is certainly offensive.
$14.99 is still cheaper than the cost of 2 people to see a movie at the theater (in most areas), and often times less expensive than the retail DVD.
I'm not sure $14.99 plus the cost of a DVD on which to burn it is cheaper than the cost of the DVD in the store, most of the time. But then, The cost of iTunes downloads plus a CD on which to burn them is not cheaper than the record store for me either, but some people still g
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I never said that they didn't have the right. I said they didn't ha
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Perhaps a better analogy would be "get raped, and then pay your rapist"? I didn't know being mugged was such a touchy subject.
"Almost nobody likes DRM"
I understand that many people don't care about DRM, most end-users don't know or care what it is. But I'd never think that anyone actually likes having their rights restricted.
"but the fact is that most studios wouldn't allow Apple or others to sell them as downloads without it"
I sorry, I
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I'll bold some of the key words for you.
Rape:
-- Rape takes away the victim's ability to choose for themselves. It's something forced upon them - they don't want it but they cannot do anything about it. Their rights are being quashed by another.
-- Restricting another's rights is always violent. No one gives up their rights easily - everyone fights for it
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Often times? Are there times when being mugged and raped turn out to be life altering in the positive sense? ;-)
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There are times when bad things happen to us but they end up having a positive effect. Perhaps a rape victim becomes a couselor for other rape victims, and helps others heal their hurt. We don't have too much control over what happens to us, but we do have a lot of control over the way we react to it.
Well, yes, except for one important point (Score:2)
Sure. And it would be a great deal if they were selling you a movie that was currently in the theaters. But these sound like movies that are currently available for purchase or rental at any store. And since it will take a lot of time to download around 1GB of movie data, you might as well buy the movie from the supermarket or rent it from the rental place next door.
At least if you buy the thing, you can sell it, or more lik
Re:Great for "the masses", Funtionally useless for (Score:2)
I'm with you, Matey. Until the swabs make it available to me on those little wheelie discs with the colored cellophane frames and I can project it on to my Mom's laundry hanging in the backyard, I'm going the copyright infringement route as well.
Stupid studios! When will they ever learn they have to cater to ALL our home playback technologies, no matter how eccentric or whi
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I know what xine is, super-genius, I use it daily. Along with a whole bunch of other Linux players and plug-ins that I would not expect Hollywood to actively support until they achieved some marketshare approaching at least that of Firefox. Because a player exists, or is even technologically superior to what "the masses" have, should by no means bind, ethically or otherwise, a company to support that player if it does n
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I'm sure the artists will just love that you're making such a defiant stand with Pirate Bay by not compensating them. It amuses me that you attempt a moral stance against DRM in one breath, then advocate piracy in the next. Ah, Slashdot.
Amazon's store will be DOA (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, this is going to be a HUGE hit.
Not.
To be fair, I don't think Apple's pricing is going to work either.
Re:Amazon's store will be DOA (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a huge difference between $9.99 (which I think is doable for many customers) and $15.99 (for which I think people will keep going to the DVD store). So if any online movie download store succeeds, it will be Apple's.
However, I can't help but notice that there are a lot of titles at my local DVD store for $6.99 or thereabouts. I don't know if this will be as lucerative a venture as music, especially since you tend to listen to music a lot but only view movies once or twice. Rental may well still be the best movie model for most people.
D
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Yup, NetFlix still seems like the best deal for my money. I hardly ever actually want to own a DVD anyway. There's always something new to watch. Plus, it's not like you really own DRM'd m
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Of course the DRM nuts want to have HDTV's DVI inputs banned, so that might not work.
Or you could use it as an excuse to invite her to your house instead of vice versa
D
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> and you can't even burn the DVD from the DRM-infected file you spent ages to download.
> Sure, this is going to be a HUGE hit.
> Not.
Then you are not the target audience. I bet you never order pay-per-view movies on cable either. Well a lot of people do. They want it now, and they don't want to go out to the store to get it. This will be a great hit, because they can download the mo
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You get it in a couple of hours. Or with crap quality.
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I think $10 may be a stretch for what most people will pay for something that's divorced from a physical object (that might otherwise give it some perceived value) and extremely limited in what can be done with it.
At $4.99, I think these things would sell like hotcakes. At $9.99, I think they'll do
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Wouldn't that be "You watch
For all the technical awesomeness, the Internet is *still* fairly fragile in the face of large streaming downloads. (And if you happen to use Adelphia, go slit your wrists now.)
So, iTunes to carry Disney only (Score:5, Funny)
A store of tunes
It's a store of lyrics
And a store of videos
There's so much that we share
On Peer-to-Peer, we swear
It's a small store after all
There is just one Apple
And one golden iTunes
And a smile means
Profits for ev'ryone
Though the Disney divides
And their pockets are wide
It's a small store after all
It's a small store after all
It's a small store after all
It's a small store after all
It's a small, small store
Re:So, iTunes to carry Disney only (Score:5, Funny)
$9.99 and up? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Initially, Apple was pushing to sell all films for $9.99, just as it sells songs for a flat price of 99 and all TV shows for $1.99. But due to studio pressure, it will launch with two price points: $9.99 for library titles, $14.99 for new pics in the DVD window."
Neither of these companies will get my business. Why the hell would I pay retail for a download when I can have it in a day or two on physical media with a case and an insert? $4.99, maybe - after all that would compete with "buying" a new release on DirecTV which I can save on my Tivo. This one I really don't get.
I still don't purchase (complete) CD's online - I'll take the packaging. Individual songs make sense since I might only care for a couple tracks on a disc. I've never had the desire to download specific chapters of a DVD. Music downloads are a whole different thing than video. Oh well, I hope the market takes care of this.
Re:$9.99 and up? (Score:5, Interesting)
Wal-Mart has bins for titles at $5.50 and I've seen sales on titles as low as $3.50.
Here's an Idea for Amazon (Score:5, Interesting)
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Of course, the rational side of my brain tells me that what will happen is I'll think "oh, I'd like to watch $movie" so I go to amazon, buy the movie, watch the downloaded movie, then a couple of days later when the dvd arrives I'm like "oh...well now I've watched it" and it'll get stuck on my self unopened.
Another bundle idea. (Score:2)
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Movie downloads are horribly overpriced! (Score:5, Insightful)
So far, this is not much different from music right? True. However! Many ISP's cap the downloads to 100 GB's/month if not less. Few spots in the US and Canada don't have capped downloads, where the iTunes store will first be releasing the movies. This means, that for those that want to buy a good amount DVD's they will have to pay a premium once they surpass their download limit. My ISP charges $1/GB over my 100 GB limit..or I can opt to get throttled down to dial-up speeds. Convenient...
Regardless, the cost of entry is simply not on par with downloading music wherein one does not have to wait hours for the download (usually) one has near immediate gratification. As well, with the plethora of DAP products, folks don't necessarily require (or rather desire) the jewel case, cover art, liner notes etc. Yet, with DVD's the vast majority WILL be ripping to a DVD and playing in their home unit watching on their TV, not on some tiny screen on a DAP.
With prices in the $10-20 range, only the diehards will go for this, or those with massive uncapped pipes (like sysadmins at a corp or university). Drop the cost to $5 and people will be far more eager to wait for the downloads, take their chances with their ISP quirks because $5 for the new Pirate of the Carribean movie is going to be far cheaper than the 15-20 they'll pay at Best Buy for the first month of its release.
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Content is more than just a bunch of bits (Score:4, Interesting)
Content is more than the cost of the media. If I make a movie that costs 10 million dollars, and sell it on DVD. How many movies do I have to sell before I make my first dollar. (say I make 10 dollars per dvd sold).
10,000,000$
Everyone who does your thinking thinks of "blockbusters", movies that are so popular the cost per dvd sold is a very very small percentage of the cost of the disk. For less popular movies a good chunk of the cost of the DVD has already been spent on production.
Your right about the elasticity of demand though, cheaper means more buyers.
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An OC-12 (622 Mbps) dedicated (99.99% uptime, downtime = reimbursed) costs about $15000 a month (many would say "holy shit", but that's a good deal). Doing some Google calculator math, that equates to about 13.31 GB/$. Charging over 10 times that price sounds pretty bad.
Then again, using dedicated T1 (1.5 Mbps) math, that equates to about 1.20 GB/$, but only dial-up ISPs use(d) those (and businesses with low bandwidth and high uptime needs).
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Re:Movie downloads are horribly overpriced! (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree... this is alot different than music. One of the big gripes for years before iTunes showed up was "Bands just don't release good albums anymore, I just want tracks 3 and 9 from that album... why should I spend $11.99 for the whole CD?", and iTunes said fine, $1.98 and you can have tracks 3 & 9.
There's no analog to that for movies, and in my opinion that combined with the portability were the killer features that pushed iTunes to success.
Movies, you're going to be adding portability (which no one really seems to be asking for) and convenience of not leaving your chair, and a short download wait... nice features certainly, but I have my doubts that they'll be big enough motives to make this more than a tiny add-on to iTunes/Amazon's bottom lines.
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How about when you just want to watch all the boobie shots in a movie, or all the explosions or karate kicks for the action film fans?
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If compressed with h.264 instead of MPEG-2, at similar bitrates to what iTunes currently uses for TV shows: a typical movie takes up about 400MB.
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At 320x240 resolution and ~88 kbps bitrate, compared to 720x480 with 8 Mbps bitrate for DVDs.
If you wanted the same quality with h.264, you'd still need about half the bitrate of DVDs and the same resolution. About what it takes to fill up a DVD-5 (4.5 GB)
ISP download limits a problem? (Score:3, Informative)
For those that want to buy a good amount DVDs they will have to pay a premium once they surpass their download limit. My ISP charges $1/GB over my 100 GB limit
Even if these stores will go for the rather arbitrary upper limit of 4.5GB per film, you'd still need to buy 22 films in a one month period to reach that 100GB limit. If you have that kind of money to spend, you probably won't even notice your ISP's extra charge.
All completely useless (Score:3, Informative)
Why should I pay as much or more than a DVD for a download copy that it riddled with DRM and much lower in quality?
For any download I expect them playable on anything I might use. At the moment I have 3 machines I regularly use. A Windows XP Box, a Mac Mini and a Kubuntu box. I also expect to be able to stream whatever it is from my Kubuntu box as I use that as a file server. Also playing on my pda and laptop and hey even on my real dvd player are also pretty important things.
This stinks of the current trend of charginf ridiculour prices for something just because it is downloadable.
Hey companies downloadable saves you loads of money pass this on to me instead of expecting me to quadruple your profit on things.
I'll stick to DVD thanks, at least the problems with that have been overcome.
Idiot Movie Studios (Score:3, Insightful)
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Wanna bet? Time and time again people have proved they are more stupid than you think.
You are in denial unfortunatly. Admitting how stupid people can be scares most people so you can be forgiven.
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If a success Greedo will always shoot first! (Score:2, Insightful)
What about the public library (Score:5, Insightful)
LionsGate announced last month (Score:5, Interesting)
Not news (Score:3, Insightful)
By the time the movie store is up and running for real, I would expect at least some of the major studios to be wanting to get on board. The Apple brand is just too strong to ignore.
Special Features (Score:2, Informative)
I'm on the band-wagon with the "Special Features required". I won't pay for a downloaded movie w/o the Special Features. But I don't think that we are without hope here.
DivX 6, released a full year ago, has the features required to effectively make a video file into a DVD (subtitles, menus, etc.). Apple has the benefit of closed formats, so what's to stop them from providing an "enhanced video" file that implements the DVD features. I'd like to believe that they'd have the foresight to handle the Spec
While we're comparing price points... (Score:3, Insightful)
While we're comparing price points here, let's not forget that a visit to the local movie theatre costs nine bucks. Hordes of people are willing to pay that much to see a film once, on a big screen with their peers. No ownership rights at all; and afterwards they will probably never see the movie again. Plus they have to leave the house, and will probably add a four dollar soda to the bill.
Clearly there is some flexibility in prices, mostly dependent on the interest level that a potential purchaser has. The less interested they are in seeing a movie, the more affordable and convenient you have to make it before they will open their wallets.
The only reason big business is pursuing internet-based distribution AT ALL is because they perceive a demand for the additional measure of convenience that the model could POTENTIALLY deliver, and they expect to derive an acceptable profit from constructing that model.
So the big question is: Is internet-based distribution a new niche of consumers - a third category beyond theatre-goers and DVD renters - who will be convinced to watch a movie via the internet? Or are these people just a subset of that second, established category of DVD renters? In other words, do they need a lower price to bring them on board ... or do they just need the same price they're already used to paying for a movie on DVD?
Personally, I think it's a subset of DVD renters. A small subset. People who own computers, and who watch movies primarily on their computers, yet are not particularly concerned with owning a physical copy of their data, and are just a bit too impatient to order a DVD in the mail. That's not a very big demographic, really. Maybe it covers a lot of college students who move too often for a NetFlix account, but at the same time, college students are rampant pirates, to whom most music and movies are contemptuously disposable.
Where digital distribution can really shine... (Score:3, Informative)
What will be interesting is to see if the policies of "limited run" (like what Disney does with their films) carries over to the digital world or if we finally see an end to those stupid practices.
"Disney" covers a lot of ground (Score:3, Insightful)
Starting out with Walt Disney Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, Miramax Films, Hollywood Pictures, Pixar Animation Studios, and Walt Disney Feature Animation wouldn't be half bad!
They could have everything from Pulp Fiction, to Cars, to Snow White, to The Sixth Sense, to Starship Troopers and much more.
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Looney Toons is WB, not Disney, Einstein!
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