Lumines Heralds New Costs for Xbox Live Games 100
Game|Life reports on the upcoming release of Lumines for the Xbox 360's Live Arcade. Despite the high interest in the unique game (previously only on the PSP), gamers may be frustrated to learn that playing through the whole game will require additional purchases. From the article: "But then, once you hit a certain point in the 'Mission' or 'Vs. CPU' modes of the game, you'll be asked to pay up again for the ability to keep on progressing. All in all, you'll have to spend another 700 points ($8.75) to get the rest of the levels, bringing the real cost of Lumines Live to nearly $24. What lesson can we take from this? Clearly, Microsoft understands that there's a major disconnect here between what they'd like to make off direct-download game sales and what customers are willing to pay based on their perceived value. That's why, rather than go with straight dollar amounts, everything is priced in 'points.' 1200 points seems somehow cheaper than $15."
Odd, I like it. (Score:2)
Re:Odd, I like it. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Odd, I like it. (Score:4, Insightful)
IIRC it's a requirement that all XBLA games have a free trial version (which is really just the full version but locked out of full functionality)
As for the articles clam that the arbitrary point system is to confuse people, I'd have to disagree. I thought the same at first myself but after using it for a while I actually think it's a great idea... The Xbox Live Marketplace is GLOBAL if something costs 400MP in the Us then it also costs 400MP in Canada and 400MP all through Europe and 400MP in Japan. Rather then trying to localize the price of things for every currency in the world they just made their own pay scale, and IMO it works really well.
After having purchased a few things it becomes easy to follow. in US dollars 400MP = $5 exactly considering most game expansion packs, XBLA games (pretty much anything other then themes and pictures) cost 200, 400, 800, or 1200 it's fairly simple to figure out in your head how much they're worth in real money.
As for Lumines being the most expensive XBLA game to date, it's really not all that bad considering the PSP version is a whole lot more expensive, Not to mention you'll be able to play the free demo version to your hearts content before deciding to actually buy it.
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Yes, and then half way through, buy it again. Look, it's simple: all those people claiming "great, you get to try it, and if you like it you can buy the rest!" don't really get it. As you point out, you can *already* try before you buy. So, clearly, that isn't the point. The point is to nail people a second time, plain and simple. I just hope, as others have pointed out, that this will
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The PSP version is $20. I've seen it for $17 used.
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Besides that, not everyone thought Lumines was crappy. I'm actually a minority here.
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This kind of scheme is targeted at their 'non-main market', those under 16, who microsoft are hoping well get caught up in the game and keep paying (microsoft have to get the profits from some where but childrens pocket money via bait and hook mind games). The reality for the majority of the older so called 'main target' market is, they generally get pissed off the first time they get caught, and never go back.
Just a Rumour (Score:5, Informative)
not that bad of an idea... (Score:5, Interesting)
-Rick
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Except there's a demo (Score:5, Informative)
This is greed at best, and honestly I'd call it bait and switch at worst.
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some of the demos arn't all that good because you don't have time to see what the story line is like..
some might be intresting and then after getting it realize that the story like sucks and that it is boring..
i don't mind the idea of paying for little bits
it is why i refuse to play wow.. either give me the game and charge me to play or i pay for the game and you let me play it..
now i don't know what t
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It of course depends a lot on the timing, ie. is the basic game in itself complete and enjoyable and the $10 extr
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But hey, they're better than Mitsubishi. I paid them $5,000 for my car back in 2003 when I bought it new. But now they've had the nerve to, every month, demand an additional $200 from me! Every single month since May of 2003, and they have signaled they intend to continue straight through to 2008! At least Microsoft only charges you twice.
Seriously folks, you can get the whole game for $24 appa
Point System (Score:4, Interesting)
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Most Americans go blank when they hear outside temperature quoted in degrees Celsius because they're not used to it. (Here's a handy scale: 0 = freezing, 10 = cold, 20 = cool/nice (just below standard office temp), 30 = warm, 40 = hot.) However, if you spend any decent amount of time in the new system and get feedback from it ("oooh, it seems hot today - wonder what the temperature is... oh, it's 34
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Just a thought
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I agree with you (and everyone else) that paying less at the start and then paying again for additional content is better than overpaying for a full crappy game
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If the price for the game starts at 50$ and then they charge more, at one point, the games will start to be too expansive for most people's taste and they'll stop buying them.
When enough people stops buying them, the prices will go down again.
The gamers will decide the price, not the gaming companies.
In short, it's not the same situation as the gas prices. Gas is an essential for most people to go to work, shop and make groceries. A video
It's called a demo. (Score:3, Insightful)
I tried Test Drive Unlimited last night, the controls were a little stiff, but damm if I didn't like driving with 10 real people in free drive, that's an easy "mu
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The biggest reasons the game wasn't that great is the demo was very timed and linear, it's missing
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What I dislike is simply the cost. Digital Distribution (virtually) eliminates all of the costs associated with delivering a game to consumers; you eliminate the cost of physical production, shipping, warehousing and the mark-up at retail, meaning you probably save $20-$30 per game to del
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Not bad (Score:2, Insightful)
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Proof Microsoft has lost Xbox Live. (Score:4, Interesting)
Why was the first 6 monthes of Live popular? 5 bucks a game? What happened around June? Tons of new content all for 10 bucks a pop. Personally I'd buy 2 or three games for 10 bucks, but I'm sure as hell not buying legacy games for 10 bucks, I'm also not buying crap like Cloning Clydes or Bejeweled for 10 bucks a pop. I mean if it was 5 dollars I'd probably pick up both of them. If I had to pay 15 bucks for Luminies I'd be happy to pay that much but at the same time for 15 bucks I should get the puzzle pack and Versus for free. Instead I could go get Luminies for 20 bucks on the PS2, and that should contain both these modes and I'd get a CD/DVD for it.
That being said Gamespot is saying it's likely bogus but us raising our voices against it should help it even if they were considering it. http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?
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Cloning Clyde, Bejeweled, etc are NOT written my MS either. If you have a problem with what NinjaBee thinks their game is worth, don't buy Cloning Clyde, don't by Outpost Kaloki X, don't buy any other their games. Just stop blaming Microsoft for this...god you
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Do they actually set the prices? Not exactly but at the same time it's their system, they can easily say "I'm sorry we're not going to offer your game at that price". Game stores are able to do it. If
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Customers won't pay the price if it's too much, and at that point, they will drop the price. APparently people are buying it from the number of cloning clyde icons i see floating around.
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I spent probably a total of 10-15 hours playing Cloning Clyde.
I've spent probably at least the same playing Bejeweled...
I bitch when I pay $10 to see a movie, but that only lasts 90 minutes. $10 for 10-15 hours of gameplay is a steal, in my book. Thats a far better deal than $60 for 20 or so (Tomb Raider, which was still fun, or Kameo which I got stuck in)
Hell, I think $10 for a game, and another $10 halfway through is GREAT, if I like the game. If it holds my attentio
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The problem however is that Live doesn't work with 1 person buying a game. Live works when you sell 10,000 copies of a ga
How is this a bad thing? (Score:2)
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Good Idea (Score:2)
On a side note, Lumines is fantastic. The only game of that style that I've enjoyed more than Tetris. The idea of racing "against the clock" two seperate ways (one being the speed the blocks fall and one being the thing that sweeps out your completed blocks) really is a cool mechanic. Once I got into it, I couldn't stop playing
Nickel and diming... (Score:4, Insightful)
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The fact of the matter is, XBL is still just a flat rate for the service, and charging for content (not functionality) is nothing new.
Old News (Score:2)
"What lesson can we take from this?"
People are greedy, corporations doubly so, and like to milk money from their consumers. Nothing NEW here... but if true I'm glad I'm going with the Wii, if only because at least I haven't seen Nintendo do anything spectacularly stupid yet (as opposed to the other two guys, esp Sony).
Re:Old News (Score:4, Informative)
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NES games- $3.00 (maybe $5.00 for uber-classics, or reworked-redone games, maybe a bit more).
SNES games- $5.00-$7.00
N64 games- $7.00-$10.00 (I'd even consider paying a smidge more if they were able to up the framerates on games such as Perfect Dark, if they added in networked multiplayer for some of them, I'd probably pay up to 20 just for PD or GoldenEye)
Other systems- ??? Would be nice if they didn't cost more than 4 or 5 bucks.
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Oddly enough, that was after they sold those same games for $5 each for the e-reader (guess they were mad at us for not buying their $40 dongle). They also sold games like Metroid and Dr. Mario that were previously released with other GBA games (Metroid: Zero Mission and WarioWare) that were much more deserving of $20 or $30. I never really understood the whole NES on GBA thing. Thoug
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Lumines for Xbox Live = 25$ with all options in (if this "rumor" is to be beleived, cause this news is only at rumor status right now).
Where do the customer get screwed? with MS or with Sony?
Answer: nowhere near those two companies. If you're not happy with the price, go see the company that actually makes Lumines and complain to them. It's their product and they set the price.
Clever (Score:1)
If you buy a game and later find out you don't really enjoy it, you don't have to buy all of it and the money loss won't be as bad.
In the end, this could be a very encouraging move that allows for a reduction of the risk/cost of trying out new games.
Scumbags with kindly potential (Score:4, Insightful)
That's the trick casinos use - issue chips and cards and hide the clocks so that you mindlessly keep plugging in cash.
Then again, this incremental pricing model isn't necessarily a terrible thing. I love buying used games, but sometimes I trade in a game for one third the price I bought it for because I didn't enjoy it. It'd be nice to pay for the first half of a game to see if I like it before shelling out the rest.
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The price of the points vary depending on your country, but their online point cost doesn't.
It makes for a simpler marketplace online.
So while it does have that "casino chips" effect, i think it's more a "side-effect" to internationalization procedures.
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It's not bad math, it's sunk costs (Score:4, Insightful)
While I'm sure that plays a role (it must, or gas wouldn't be priced out to tenths of a cent), I don't think it's the largest reason MS uses points - or even the largest reason it's easier to spend points than money.
The big reason to use points, if you're MS, is that it allows them to sell points outside the Live system. You can buy redeemable cards in Best Buy et al, which makes them convenient stocking stuffers. Yes, there could be other ways to accomplish the same result, but:
Points are, as the article suggests, easier to spend. But not primarily because people are somehow "tricked" into not thinking of 1200 points as $15 - it's primarily because people see 1200 points as money they've already spent. The disconnect is between the perceived value of the points when purchasing them and the perceived value of the points once they've been purchased. People tend to have a reasonably good grasp of the concept of sunk costs.
When purchasing points, it's easy to dump $20 into it, thinking of how many little purchases that will cover. Once you've got the points, though, you know you're not spending any new money.
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No, the real reason to use points instead of real dollars is to hide the costs. Otherwise, they would just sell them like any other gift card you buy at Best Buy or any other big box retailer which can be charged up with money and spent like money. Look at what iTunes Music store does. They charge 99 cents,
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I'm sure both play a role. If MS didn't want to take advantage of the masking effect of substituting points for dollars, they would have made one point equal one dollar. By decoupling the value of a point from the value of a dollar, and not in any obvious way (1200 pts = $8.75?) th
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Psychologically, though, the idea that it's money already spent is still, IMHO, the driving force. While in a strict sense, it's still currency, the fact that the "real" (psychology, remember) money is already spent makes the points, once acquired, of less perceived value than
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Not only that, they're of less actual value since their use is restricted.
I agree.
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Shareware, all over again (Score:2, Interesting)
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Here's a large section of the game, that will give you plenty of opportunity to figure out if you like it. If you do, click here and go straight to the online ordering webpage. Enter a few numbers, click on a link, wait for the download to finish, and, oh, looky there - full game.
Are companies afraid they'd lose sales because people wouldn't bother buying the full game
Points vs. Dollars (Score:1)
What I am trying to point out is the psychological game they are trying to play. If they (Microsoft or anyone really) can get you to not look at an actual dollar amount, it will in your mind change the "worth" of the dollar. You wont be speaking in terms of dollars, but points. Points arent worth anything to you, they are just insignificant numbers on a TV/Computer screen. Dollars on t
How is that different than HalfLife/SIN episodes? (Score:1)
The only difference is that you get to buy all the episodes at once instead of having to wait a year between each episodes.
I'd also like to point out that the Live model on the xbox is actually CHEAPER than the retail version.
PSP Lumines = 40$
XBLA version = 25$ (with all the content)
So really, why is everybody complaining?
Re:How is that different than HalfLife/SIN episode (Score:2, Insightful)
Because the groupthink notion of "making money is bad, unless I'm the one doing it" permeates this board like a cancer.
Perception (Score:2)
"That's why, rather than go with straight dollar amounts, everything is priced in 'points.' 1200 points seems somehow cheaper than $15"
Yes, it does seem cheaper. That's why when you go to a casino, you don't use "money", you use "chips". Throwing $100 on the blackjack table is a lot harder than throwing a single black chip. People are used to evaluating the value of dollars and they automatically make the connection when they see a price tag. It's menatlly different when it's shown in a different wa
You know, at first I was disgusted... (Score:2)
$24 for lumines is quite in line with the market.
Is there still a free demo? (Score:1)
Why this idea is stupid... (Score:1)
Imagine that you have rented a game for a few days from Blockbuster or wherever, you have invested 20 hours of time into the game, and all the sudden, you can't go any further? How would that work? Would they make you pay to continue playing? Would there be special versions of the game that game rental companies would have, with the complete game? Sure, there are services like Gamefly that even stretch that further, because you can essentially keep a game as l
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Games from XBox Live Arcade aren't always from houses like Ubisoft. A lot of them are from indie developers who probably don't want to front the cost of pressing hundreds of thousands of discs. XBLA gives them a channel to provide customers with their content. Most of the time you can get demos, but they are severely limited or buggy if it's not a finished game.
This model works, if you've played lumines or even heard of it enough to feel $15 is w
Transfer games? (Score:1)
What about if you sign into live on another persons xbox? Can you download it again there? Sort of like Steam allows?
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What about if you sign into live on another persons xbox? Can you download it again there? Sort of like Steam allows?
Yes you can re-download again.
The downloaded content is tied to your xbox "gamertag" or "identity". You can play it an another person's xbox. You can also put it on a memory card and bring it with you to your friend'
This really isn't any different than... (Score:1)
...HL 2 or Sin Episodes as stated previously. In addition, the same model is being applied, at least in principle, to Oblivion when users are paying for new and exiting things, like horse armor.
You might as well prepare yourself for more of the same, because if this business model succeeds, the industry as a whole will jump on board.
Is it a bad thing really? (Score:1)
Not his business model (Score:2, Interesting)
When I purchase a game I expect a full game that I may play as often and as far as I want to what would be considered the end. This episodic content or toll-bridge gaming model is exactly what I don't want but of course it means more money for the game companys so they will continue to push it. Yes, vote w/ you $ of course but keep posting to any and all forums so that they get the message. We want a full game but wi
Famous Quote. (Score:2)
Points == Poker Chips
NOT MORE LUMINES!!! (Score:2)
Cruel world! Why must you tempt me with your colored blocks and hypnotizing music?!!??!
(999,999-filled high score list. Everything unlocked. Got to about level 400 before I was too tired to keep concentration. Haven't yet done 100 blocks in 60 seconds. Playing v
I, like quite a few others, don't have a problem (Score:2)
My main gripe with paid for updates is that it is at the expense of what we used to get free. For example in Oblivion I can now pay a few pounds to get some new buildings, locations, items etc - a while back these would have just been chucked in for free in a patch.
The same goes for the PC, I play Battlefield2 - some of the early patches included some ne
Quoted so many times already but ... (Score:2)
There must be other people that don't see it this way as well as myself. To have this sort of logic you'd have to already have a few thousand points piled up, which have obviously cost you money in the past, a long, forgotten past that is no longer relevant to your current financial situation, which you just throw around without remembering that at some point in time they did actually cost you money. I only buy points when I want to make an immediate purchase, w