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Counter-Strike Source Gameplay Revamp 68

Posted by Zonk from the net-gamers-rise-up-in-anger dept.
Heartless Gamer writes "According to bit-tech.com, we'll soon be releasing the first in a series of updates to Counter-Strike: Source which will be focused on moving the core Counter-Strike gameplay forward. The first update will include an updated version of the map Train, which will feature an HDR lighting pass, some minor layout changes, and a number of small bugfixes. The second facet of this release will be a completely reworked radar system. There will be a significant change to the aesthetics of the radar, but there are also some fairly significant gameplay ramifications to the new system."
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Counter-Strike Source Gameplay Revamp More

Counter-Strike Source Gameplay Revamp

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  • It's good to see companies continuing to support and improve a game that's been out for almost 2 years (EA, I'm looking at you -- fix C&C: Generals, jerks).

    Now, if only they would get those damn T's to stop camping!

    • Re:awesome (Score:2, Informative)

      by frosty_tsm ( 933163 )
      Two years? It's still largely the same game from 2000.
      • That's like saying all the different FPS, RPG, or adventure games are all "largely the same game". Yes, they are similar -- that's why they're both called Counterstrike. I would understand your guff if they called one game "Counterstrike" and the other "Totally Not Counterstrike: It's Completely Different". In addition to the drastic change from 1.6 to Source, the Source version has undergone many changes since its release: weapon tweaks, HDR lighting, new levels, more skins, and now a better radar syst
        • The biggest fix was the physics.

        • Re:awesome (Score:3, Insightful)

          by toleraen ( 831634 )
          I'm kinda confused which side you're defending. Sounds like you agree that it's about the same, but then you finish that it has gone drastic changes.

          Weapon tweaks, updated graphics, and new levels are not "drastic". They are "patches" and "updates". Just because I installed the latest expansion for Battlefield 2 doesn't mean EA made a completely different game. They added more content. Drastic changes would be completely different weapons, totally new maps, etc. It would be a total revamp in how th
    • I would agree, but it concerns me a little that they seem to be putting so much effort into revamping old ground with HDR again instead of moving on and doing bigger and better things - which, as they have previously demonstrated to the FPS community at large, they are more than capable of doing. Is this a sign that they don't have any bright ideas left? I sincerely hope not.
      • We're talking about a game which has a predecessor that still has a commanding online presence 6 years after its initial release. Is maintenance and game play balance that bad of an investment when they are looking to get another 4+ years out of the game's life span?

        -Rick
      • There's more than one person on the staff. They just felt that a product of this magnitude(There are an awful lot of people playing it.) was worth supporting with at least a few people. Other projects will have staff hired and fired according to need. The staff members who'd be responsible for creating new content and innovating are most likely at work on other projects in the company. Those assigned to "keeping-things-up-to-date" are probably just working their way up the ladder.
    • Will it let me respawn after two seconds now?

      Back to q3a..
    • Everything EA touches turns to shit.
      • Hey, come on, don't be that harsh. I mean, aside from bungling the Command & Conquer series (and then not fixing all of the glaringly obvious bugs and such despite the fact it's been out for over 3 years [and they even released an also-broken expansion pack])

        -- look at how they handled the James Bond franchise after they got the rights away from Rare (Rare made Goldeneye). ...oh... I mean...

        look at the greatness that is in all their totally unique sports games... errr...

        how about the fact they to
        • You didn't even mention how they've beaten the Medal of Honor series into the ground, or wasted the FIFA license or sat on the exclusive NASCAR license for years.

          Can I mention a couple other things?

          1. C&C: Renegade
          2. The largest game company in the world purchased the engine used in Medal of Honor, one of their largest franchises.
          3. The largest game company in the world has no equivalent to Steam or battle.net.

          And to make this thread somehow tangentially relevant to the subject, Yes, Valve is awesome fo
        • ..and Syndicate. Fuckers!!!!!!
          • Yes! Some of Bullfrog's finest work! I used to play that for hours on end... ohhh the gauss rifle. No... no... the minigun! Yes! Or the laser! Yeah! That game is what... 12-13 years old now? You'd think they'd be able to make another game similar to it in caliber... nope.
    • Meh, they've been fixing and supporting CS:Source for so long because they take FOREVER to release fixes, and generally everytime they had a new feature it's buggy as hell, and they have to fix it.

      I don't see why this is such big news. Valve has always been making little fixes and gameplay changes on CS:Source. They make changes on maps all the time. The radar thing sounds interesting, but in reality, it will make little difference. Newbies never use the radar, regardless of how helpful it can be. Skil

  • Gameplay ramifications! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Wylfing ( 144940 ) <brian@NOsPAm.wylfing.net> on Monday August 14, 2006 @11:44AM (#15903115) Homepage Journal

    Now you can get headshot and called gay even faster by bunnyhopping, wallhacking, aimbotting, attention-deficient 13-year-olds. Sign me up!

    • Re:Gameplay ramifications! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Monday August 14, 2006 @01:04PM (#15903801)
      Now you can get headshot and called gay even faster...

      There is an easier way to get called gay even faster than normal on CS and you don't nead a modified version of CS either. Just change your alias to something like for example: 'Aimbotsky von Campenstein'. Your will learn hitherto unknown forms of profanity you didn't even imagine existed, and in multiple languages!!!
    • it'll make aimbots that much easier to spot though. . . when every enemy is illuminated while in buy mode, you know a teammate is a cheat.
  • CTs should be allowed to pick up the bomb. Ts should be allowed to move the hostages.

    • Re:Suggestions (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SnowDeath ( 157414 )
      T's should be allowed to carry suicide bomb packs like they promised over 5 years ago...
      • This kind of thing was in the Battlefield 1942 Mod Desert Storm. Playing the Non-US side, the Spec Ops kit had a satchel charge that detonated immediately.
        Unfortunately this went the way of the Dodo by being deemed Non PC.
    • In beta Ts were allowed to move the hostages, but it really screwed with the gameplay (not that hostage rescue maps are used competatively). The CTs being able to move the bomb would be a -huge- gameplay change, especially in matches. Round times would have to be changed, play would slow down.
      • How about let the CT's be able to defuse the bomb when it's just laying on the ground. It would give the T's more of a reason to keep a close eye on team mates.

        Regards
        elFarto

        • Re:Suggestions (Score:3, Interesting)

          by gfxguy ( 98788 )
          I like a slower pace, personally... I like the suspense that real life would give you. Ten guys running at the other team yelling "GO! GO! GO!" is hardly realistic.

          CT's should be allowed to do both. If the bomb's out in the middle of an open area, they should be able to pick it up and defuse it while hiding behind a box, or after calling some teammates for cover.

          T's should be allowed to move hostages.

          It's funny to see the back and forth arguments between some people. Some people hate a new feature that o
          • I like realism too, but I wouldn't go looking for it in CS.

            There are indeed slower paced games that are far far far more realistic than CS. They appeal to a different kind of taste, whether they are successful or not in doing so. The Rainbow Six line for example. They're striving for a certain level of realism. They want the game to be fun because it's realistic, but this assumes you find realism fun.

            CS isn't really driving for realism as a core focus. It's shooting for it's own particular gameplay style th
          • Well, in Real Life(tm), there'd be a lot more camping.
            I don't consider myself particularly 'anti-camping', especially in team games, it's a reasonable part of the game. However, justifying it based on what would happen in real life is pretty flimsy, because we're generally playing a game designed to be fun rather than simulation. I mean, RL is pretty crappy as a game, despite it's excellent graphics and near perfect physics engine.
          • I don't mind campers too much unless a round ends in camper wars (i.e. all survivors are busy camping) since that usually means a lot of boredom (well, more boredom than regular CS).
            • I agree.. when I said that, I didn't mean that everyone should find a spot and camp it until the end of round. But it makes the game play a lot more interesting when, in a five on five, and you're, for example, the CT forces on a defuse map:

              2 guys camp each bomb site, the other three seek out and destroy. Now, if a camper gets killed, you can reasonably guess that the T's are at that site, especially if the other camper has nothing to report. So everyone goes to that bombsite... you don't just sit there
              • I've even had people shouting at me to stop camping (LAN game, BTW, I try to avoid CS as much as possible) just because I stood still for a moment to fire a sniper rifle. Not that I can hit any better with these things when standing still as opposed to running and jumping like mad but I'd like to at least pretend I can hit anything.

                And what I don't get is the constant "no AWM" complaints (on a LAN, more than half the players would complain if anyone used the AWM). If you don't like the one-hit-kill nature o

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by gfxguy ( 98788 )
                  The other pistols are more powerful. I always pick the best one I can because I'm a shooter (I waste ammo like crazy) and run out of bullets in the clip pretty fast. It's faster to switch to the pistols in an emergency than reload, and I've gotten a lot of kills that way (soften them up with the rifle, but run out of bullets... so switch to the pistol and finish them off).

                  I suck with the sniper weapons, too. Again, if we talk about "real life", the sniper would have someone backing him up so he could jus
      • It would have been trivially, trivially easy to prevent the hostage exploits, but instead Valve gimped the game and removed a valid strategic option. Moving the hostages to a more favorable (and unknown) location really helped, and kept the game more unpredictable, like in real life.
    • > CTs should be allowed to pick up the bomb. Ts should be allowed to move the hostages.

      Hear hear. Being able to split up the hosties would also be good.

  • correction (Score:4, Funny)

    by goarilla ( 908067 ) on Monday August 14, 2006 @11:52AM (#15903195)
    from TFA:
    One example: when you look directly at an enemy for a long enough time for their name to appear on your screen, everyone on your team will be able to see that enemy in the radar
    Shouldn't that be ...
    One example: when you look directly at an enemy for a long enough time for their name to appear on your screen, You're probably long dead?
    • Have you ever played CS? This is the game where some guns (The glock in particular) require multiple shots to the head to kill someone. Unload a clip into an enemy? He might still be happily running around with 20 health. With the amount of ammunition it can take to down an enemy, a feature like this could actually have an impact.
      • true true but not much people play with the glock as a pistol ...
        Most spawning terrorists replace their default pistol with a desert eagle or with a usp tact
        But if you're in a balanced game eg. a game where everybody is decently equiped
        you're mostly up against ak47 (my favorite), the maverick (m4a1), awp, mp5
        and in that case you dont have the time to just go spot enemies for your team ... you're dead before you know it :D
  • Last time I played CS was back in 2002. I liked being able to log on and play for 30 minutes or 2 hours depending on how busy I was. It kept my FPS reflexes fresh. I haven't tried CS:Source yet, but have been thinking about trying it. Should I bother with it or give a different game a try? Have most people moved on to something else? Is there something else that will give me a similar FPS fix? Thanks.
    • I played the original CS back a few years ago, and since switched to FPS's like the Battlefield series, etc etc. I looked down on CS type games as being too jumpy, twitchy etc. CS:S is that type of game that will take hard core gamers who don't like the quake/CS types and convert them to believers. I prefer CS:S over BF2.

      But Battlefield1942 still rules supreme.
    • I recommend BF2. I used to play a lot of CS:S, but after BF2 the maps just seem so tiny, not to mention that in BF2 people actually help teammates out (some of it is because of medics/engineers/supports that want more points to get their next unlock, but they're still helping you as well :) instead of going fraghunting solo like most CS:S players on public do. Also the fact that you earn promotions that give new weapons as unlocks is pretty nice, and gives the game continuity. Some people prefer BF1942, but
      • BF2 Seconded. It's so huge, but in a good way. Also the teamplay is a big factor. You can join a squad (usually 2-5 people) and then go do missions with your squad. You can usually identify the templayers as opposed to the solo fraghunters just based on the fact that their squaded up. Commander mode puts a nice twist on the FPS premise. The 1.3 patch is a tad sketchy (i've actually had no problems these days as opposed to when 1.3 was first released) but the 1.4 patch should be coming any time now. D
      • Yeah, Ive switched from CS:S to BF2. However, (not in-game related) I like the steam interface and their auto update system more. The BF2 interface (menu, server list etc) is clunky, such as refreshing a server list and not actually be able to do anything while that is occuring. The pop-up add for an add-on (special forces??) that requires me to go to a separate website, download the downloader, then PAY for it (hang on, they didnt mention it was going to cost!) kinda suxors. I'm happy to buy the game (have
    • I guess my problem (probably, from your perspective) is that I rarely get a chance to play, and when I do I rarely play online. I usually play the game with bots, sometimes with my son.

      But we had CS and Condition Zero, did the free trial for CS:Source, and after the dust settled with the new release (and bots were available for CS:S), we did the upgrade. I thought it was worth it. When we get bored we download new maps, and there's new maps all the time. There hundreds of them, and you generally get pre
    • Here's my current FPS fix:

      http://www.dystopia-game.com/ [dystopia-game.com]

      Cyber-punk world. Assault a corporate office building with your team of mercenaries, escort your decker to a jack-in-point. Guard him while he battles in cyber-space to disable security systems, then advance to complete your objectives.

      Or, if you're dressed in corporate blue... stop the punk mercs cold in their tracks.
    • I recommend TC:E, which you can grab here [truecombat.com]. It is a mod for Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, so it's free. The graphics aren't as snazzy as CS:Source, but they are as good as, if not better than, the original CS. The gameplay is where TC:E really shines. IMO, it's far more realistic than CS:Source. TC:E lacks the extra physics, such as shooting a barrel and watching it roll around, but it is a FAR more fun game to play.

  • More problems in gameplay that need fixed first! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How about re-doing the AI of the bots? Currently they play like 5 year olds with AimBot. The same bot that can headshot me as it falls from a building at 400 meters with a Glock 9mm somehow can't throw a 'nade in a window from 10 feet away. Nor can it understand that if a team mate is in front of you don't throw the grenade in the first place.

    And how about more weapon options? Very few of the weapons have secondary attacks when IRL these same weapons have tons of features that I'm sure would enhance

  • Um, (Score:5, Insightful)

    by remembertomorrow ( 959064 ) on Monday August 14, 2006 @11:59AM (#15903274)
    How many times do you see teammates accidentally shoot each other on FF-enabled pubs?

    Seriously, NOBODY looks at their radar. The general consensus seems to be: "If you hear footsteps, fire and hope it's not a friendly."

    I look at it, because I can tell where enemy presence is by seeing who dies, and where they were. It helps IMMENSELY once you get used to it. (This applies to both 1.6 and CS:S)
    • Agreed. When ever I hear foot steps my first reaction is to look, a glance, at the radar to see if it is friendly and I really get annoyed with people who don't even do this simple task. Knowing a team mate is about and close to you can be great as you can jump up and you know some one has your six where if they have no idea they could fire their weapon at you which may kill you though more importantly gives away both of your positions.

    • Like the parent poster said, those that check the radar before firing on friendlies are aware of where their teammates are. And if those gunshots/footsteps aren't coming from a teammate location, you know where the enemy is and can make a pretty good guess about where they're going based on a whole bunch of clues. (Enemy playstyle, death locations of other players, time of death, runspeed, yadda yadda.) Experienced players already have a pretty good mental radar going.

      This will probably help the newer playe
  • I don't understand why this is such a big change. In the time that it takes to see someone's name, you've usually either killed them, or been killed by them (my experiences tend toward the latter ;)). If it's a temporary ping on the radar ("Joe saw Bob here ..."), it doesn't seem all that useful. If it's permanent, then that would be a HUGE change (and might imbalance things, as good luck hiding once you're marked ;)).

    Maybe if they made it so that ANY player seen within a cone of vision (maybe 10 degrees
    • I'd expect that to work like it does in BF2, a marked target remains visible for a few seconds, then disappears again.

      Personally I'd use the radar more if it was closer to my crosshairs. Best would be in the middle between crosshairs and bottom screen edge. That's where it is in Freespace. Dunno, I just can't keep track of any stats shown on the top edge of the screen.
  • Does this mean people will want to play the other maps instead of Dust and Dust 2? I started playing CS since the original beta 2. I was never a real good player but always enjoyed the map rotations even though some maps were of poor quality. Then it was always dust dust dust. BORING. My brother and his friend are the real hardcore players usually getting kicked/banned for "cheating" even though they arent. All they play is Dust and Dust 2 because of the supposed balance the maps have. I play for variety, g
    • de_dust pwnz j00. Don't forget de_dawn for variety. =)

      I stopped playing CS when America's Army came out. I was pretty good at CS and very often on the top of the list on pub servers. I got kicked all the time for "hacking". Eventually I quit because I got tired of getting shot through walls, got tired of grenades not killing people, and got tired of crazy Quake, jumping around / bunny hopping style of gameplay. America's Army was great for a while, but now that game has suffered the same scourge as eve

  • Change everything! Make the weapons even stronger! You can trench someone in two parts with a shot from the glock, but thats not enough! How about a bazooka? No? Maybe with a coming update!
  • Wake me when CS doesn't play like instagib and make me wait for up to several minutes to respawn...
  • Would be kinda interesting if they had a option for gameplay like Day of Defeat...where if you die, the game goes on and you spawn back in a little bit. Otherwise if you're the first one to die, it's like commercials, you get up and get something to eat.

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