First Impressions of Freespire 1.0 201
Nate writes "Freespire 1.0 was released a few days ago, taking the desktop-oriented Linspire distribution and making it freely available (as in beer) to the world. Linux Format has some first impressions of the release, focusing on its much-trumpeted media playback facilities thanks to codec licensing. Flash, Java, DVD and WMV support out-the-box — could this climb to the top of the desktop distro ladder?"
Time will tell (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Time will tell (Score:5, Insightful)
The available scripts out there (Automatix, EasyUbuntu, etc) are not legal in the United States thanks to the patent quagmire. This preempts the use of the distribution in a large way (e.g. - most businesses simply can't afford to break the law, no matter how wrong it is).
That said, I *would* like a suggestion to this issue. I'd really like to get up and running on Linux legally. Freespire seems appealing in this respect.
Re:Time will tell (Score:5, Insightful)
The available scripts out there (Automatix, EasyUbuntu, etc) are not legal in the United States thanks to the patent quagmire. This preempts the use of the distribution in a large way (e.g. - most businesses simply can't afford to break the law, no matter how wrong it is).
How many businesses in the US actually care so much about MP3 and DVD support that they'd choose an OS based on it? Flash support is readily available as a browser plugin, and easily installed even without the aforementioned scripts. That's the only thing that could possibly be considered relevant for business users, and even that's a little iffy.
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
The same number that use audio and video in training, marketing and corporate communications.
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
Yeah, except Flash 7 is all you get until 2007:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/emmy/archives/2006/
I fairly frequently receive Flash 8 stuff that is unusuable in 7.
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
Grey area - a business with a suitable (>10,000 seat) install base could negotiate royalties themselves. (if they REALLY have a need for MP3 or DVD).
Just sayin
Ratboy.
Re:Time will tell (Score:4, Informative)
Keep an eye on here:
http://www.fluendo.com/products.php?product=plugi
They are currently only available to OEMs, but the plan (as stated in the link) is to make them available to end users via a webshop.
VLC? (Score:2)
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
The execution of such scripts is not necessarily illegal in the United States. The codecs, etc., that are downloaded are freely downloadable from the vendor's site. If the scripts download the codecs from that vendors site (even in an a
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
Re:Time will tell (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Time will tell (Score:2)
Businesses do, but do home users give a crap if they are using some codec legally? They dont know what a codec is, if you told them, "to get movies to play, I had to install something and it is against the license" they will be like "I dont care"
Hell, just watching videos on a windows machine you are probably breaking the license for the codec anyways so who cares.
Copyright / IP has gotten to the point where you will break the "law" hundreds of times a day without even realizing it o
Re:Linspire/Freespire Question (Score:2)
Re:Time will tell (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux gets a good name because the ease of use of this distro.
People switch
People realize that Linspire (free) is good, but there's better linux distros after getting used to Linux.
People are now confident, acknowledged within the linux enviroment and open to try other distros if they wish.
Mission successful.
No (Score:2, Insightful)
Boot Loader problems (Score:2)
Okay, it's probably me, but almost every distro I've tried out in the past year has been able to configure GRUB with itself and my XP partition but *screws *up other Linux OSes I have. FC5 made it so I couldn't boot Gentoo without using the grub CLI. Now Kubuntu has done the same to FC5.
Sorry to hijack your thread; it just seemed odd that Lx plays nicer with windows than with other Lxes...
Re:Boot Loader problems (Score:2, Informative)
Hope that helps.
*Haven't used Gentoo, but Debian/Ubuntu call the grub configuration file menu.list while FC/RH call it grub.conf.
Re:No (Score:2)
I've converted a few myself.
KDE 3.3 ? Are they stuck in time?? (Score:2)
Re:KDE 3.3 ? Are they stuck in time?? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:KDE 3.3 ? Are they stuck in time?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:KDE 3.3 ? Are they stuck in time?? (Score:3, Informative)
I know, there's the "stability" argument as well, but I think that's most likely bogus.
Distro ladder (Score:5, Insightful)
Not without geek support, too. And Linspire has a poor reputation currently--no telling how long it will be before that goes away.
Still, it looks like at least a typical distribution for quality, though the boot times are somewhat worrying. (Four to five minutes? That's running full hardware detection each time, by the look of it--that's how long the Ubuntu installer takes, IIRC.) Still, that can be solved; the question is whether geeks think it's worth it to have proprietary codecs by default rather than simply apt-getting them. (And if they do, we'll soon see an alternative Ubuntu installer that does just that.)
Re:Distro ladder (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Distro ladder (Score:2)
The desktop distro that reaches the top will be the one that doesn't want and doesn't need the Geek to take it there.
It will be designed from the ground up for non technical end users who expect the same functionality out of the box that they can get from the lowliest entry level Dell or the Mac Mini.
Re:Distro ladder (Score:2)
Once vendors have to choose a Linux to support (or at least offer), they might choose something like Freespire, and some have. More likely they'll choose something backed by a larger company such as Novell. And at that point, the OEMs might work an advantage by offering proprietary technologies. Or the corporations in question might; at that point, no OS vendor would risk the potentially huge leap in market share offered just because it would
Re:Distro ladder (Score:2)
OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:5, Informative)
From their website, they seem to have a GPL compliant version and a free (as in beer) proprietary version, much like OpenSuse 10.0 was.
Here's a list [freespire.org] of the licensed proprietary compenents. Under nearly every one it says explicitly that you are not granted redistobution rights.
Basically, I guess if you want to legally redistribute it you'd need get this one [linspire.com]. Since it doesn't have the proprietary codecs, though, I think you'd be better off with Ubuntu.
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Summary_of_Pr
I'm really puzzled by all of this. First, why would Microsoft license its WMV technologies to a Linux distribution? I can understand someone like Sun licensing Java, or ATI/nVidia licensing their drivers, but Microsoft? Why would they want to make it easier for a Linux distribution to compete with Windows, especially in an area where Microsoft has the advantage, namely bundling proprietary software?
Second, who is paying the licensing fees here? I presume that Linspire has to pay royalties for each download of Freespire. Where is the money coming from? On the wiki site, Linspire says it's paying for things like server space, etc., but doesn't really talk about the licensing fees. Are they really making so much money that they can afford to pay royalties but not be compensated by end-users in return?
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't that part of the requirement of the EU decision against Microsoft that they license these things?
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
Because (1) they have had enough 'fun' with monopoly-related investigations and the ensuing fines, and (2) they probably (sadly, realistically) calculate the risk of Linspire stealing serious market share from Windows at about 0.1% or less, a
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
You may remember Walmart.com's dizzying flirtation with OEM Linux: a merry-go-round of distros and systems that changed from week-to week.
Linux no longer rates its own page, so what remains can be mighty hard to find: perhaps two or three generic Microtel boxes running Linspire or Xandros.
You can forget the matching system bundles, extended warranties, and free home del
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:3, Informative)
The source code != the CDROM on which it is distributed.
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
This, basically, is the same reason that Suse was panned not so long ago because their YAST2 was not GPL compliant, but you couldn't have the distro that was Suse unless you has YAST2 because it was SO tightly interwoven into the ease with which Suse was configured... I could, personally, install it o
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
Re:OK, just how GPL compliant is it??? (Score:2)
Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:2)
No. But then you're not who this is aimed at. I suspect this is geared more to the people wanting to try Linux for themselves having already used Windows.
Re:Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:2, Informative)
Run TaFusion MEPIS Linux (Score:2)
Re:Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:2)
My friend, who I mentioned, is like those people you described. I was planning on putting Mepis on her computer. What are the differences between Mepis and Freespire? Which would be better for a newb?
Re:Proprietary Codec Fun (Score:2)
Am I missing something? (Score:5, Interesting)
Because this free version is DVD and WMV compliant at installation, that right there means that those are two technologies that supposedly have to be licensed. Linspire is now giving them away. So, wouldn't that mean that they're actively losing money on those licensing fees with every download? How is that going to benefit a Linux distro that already is not very popular?
Is there some "between the lines" information that I'm just not seeing here?
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:2, Informative)
So, it's shareware??? (Score:2)
I understand why Linspire is doing wh
Re:So, it's shareware??? (Score:2)
Re:So, it's shareware??? (Score:2)
i know it's easy to install this stuff on ubuntu with automatix, but in america it isnt legal. with the click n run thing it is, becuase you pay for a license to do so.
Why are these things even an issue? (Score:5, Informative)
The downside is, of course, that you have to wait probably at least one full day for all of this stuff to compile from scratch.
But seriously, Gentoo doesn't seem to have nearly the problems I hear of other distros having with licensing. Is there really such a legal difference between distributing ebuilds (which contain download URLs for the codecs) and distributing the codecs themselves in debs? Could debs include download URLs?
Re:Why are these things even an issue? (Score:4, Interesting)
Conversely, Linspire acquires licenses for encumbered software, then distributes the software licensed. I believe they are still tainting the kernel they distribute and losing GPL compliance, though.
Another downside (Score:2)
Even someone with years of (non Linux) experience can't be expected to know the difference between emerge, mplayer and xine. There's a need out there for people who are being introduced to Linux for the first time and don't want to worry about a(nother) "broken" OS.
Re:Why are these things even an issue? (Score:2)
emerge mplayer kmplayer firefox kde netscape-flash blackdown-jre blackdown-jdk xine-ui vlc That should give you everything, free as in beer. It'll boot fast, too, if you tweak a couple of settings -- I know it supports running init scripts in parallel, a nice little feature of having init scripts state their dependencies, instead of a strict order.
You could post this in Sumerian and find more readers than in Freespire's core market.
This much at least would be an eye-opener:
you
I find it ironic... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I find it ironic... (Score:2)
Re:I find it ironic... (Score:2)
No pleasing people - Best non-geek linux? (Score:2)
Microcenter sells cheap PCs with linspire pre installed. A friend bought one and is pretty happy with it.
Re:I find it ironic... (Score:2)
Just consider the simplest scenario, vmware:
PRO: Fairly easy to do (except few images are available)
CON: Takes a couple hours, so they have to really want it
CON: User gets really bad experience... slow to respond, graphics with few accellerations, s
Re:I find it ironic... (Score:2)
Hours to download? You don't download a CD over dialup.
There are also mini-CD liveCDs, and you can order physical media as well.
Consumer machines not set to boot from CD by default? 20 seconds to boot windows?
2 minutes to boot a LiveCD? I don't think so.
As for why many CDs don't seem to include loadlin and an autorun.inf pointing to a
webpage of directions? Couldn't say.
Comparison? (Score:2)
Can someone that approaches this from a more experienced perspective describe the differences between Linspire and mplayer with win32codecs, xvid and ogg? Focus on the number of codecs supported, its ability to handle legally iff
hmm.. right (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:hmm.. right (Score:2)
Here, Grandma... this program here will do everything that your Windows box will do. It's got a program that does everything that your Word does, and your e-mail, and your browsing. And it looks like the Windows that you're used to. Why am I showing this to you? Well, Grandma, Windows XP Home and Microsoft Office will cost you about $400. This
Re:hmm.. right (Score:2)
Dear old Granny never pays retail list.
Dear old Granny has ten years or more invested in Windows. Dear old Granny is going to tell you to buzz off.
The apps you mention
Yet another Linux distro? Holy cr.. (Score:2, Flamebait)
If you overload people with choices, they won't know what to choose and they'll go back with what they know, even if it's not even half as good as all these new options. How could they know their current stuff is crap, they can't use the new ones because there's too many choices.
Why so many distros anyway? Shouldn't there be two or three distros at most? One for servers, one for desktops.... I can't even figure out what a third distro
Re:Yet another Linux distro? Holy cr.. (Score:2)
Nobody gives a shit about "RPM vs. DEB vs. APT-GET" or any of that crud. What people care about, and what sets distros apart, is that KDE behaves very differently from GNOME.
Therefore, there should be about 5 distros:
KDE Home
KDE Server
GNOME Home
GNOME Server
"geek"-- Debian perhaps.
Any more than that is just a ridiculous amount of duplication of effort.
Re:Yet another Linux distro? Holy cr.. (Score:2)
That Wasn't a Review... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That Wasn't a Review... (Score:2)
Got root? (Score:2, Insightful)
naw (Score:2, Interesting)
No, thanks for asking (Score:2)
Re:Got root? (Flamebait) (Score:4, Insightful)
If Linspire were still Lindows.... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Umm no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Umm no (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Also who wants to bet that even though it is a slower boot then Ubuntu that it is considerably faster than Windows...
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Well, I can only speak for myself, but my Windows boxes boot in a small handful of seconds; by far the slowest part is the POST and RAID array detection.
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Re:Umm no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Umm no (Score:3, Insightful)
Rebooting to save electricity is only a kludge to compensate for crappy ACPI support.
Re:Umm no (Score:4, Informative)
Power management that works would be something to brag about. The best of both worlds.
because... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Umm no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
- BeOS booted in 14s (up to the desktop, no less), but Linux&Windows are much slower to boot on much faster computers?
-->Leave the computer on, or buy a (pricy) disk with integrated flash!
- BeOs also was very responsive (on a Celeron333) but Linux&Windows are sluggish?
-->Buy a dual-core CPU!
*Sigh*
Recently I switched from FF to Opera, it's much more responsive than FF or Mozilla which get slow very quick (without extension and on a
Re:Umm no (Score:2)
But seriously, it looks nice. The support for the codecs and the clean KDE theme is going to make it worth trying out on a test machine at home. Always looking for something I can set up for people who want to lock down computers for their kids.
Re:Wireless (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wireless (Score:2)
FAQ on Proprietary Items (Score:3, Insightful)
But won't Freespire hurt the momentum of open source by offering the option of proprietary codecs, drivers and applications?
No, quite the opposite. To influence the future of computing to become more open, Linux must first expand its circle of influence by gaining a much larger user base. A big portion of the world is turned off by Linux, because it doesn't legally support things like MP3, DVD, Java, Flash, Windows Media, QuickTime, etc., out of the box. Asking millions of people to throw a
Re:FAQ on Proprietary Items (Score:2)
Have you no class?
Re:FAQ on Proprietary Items (Score:2)
Re:FAQ on Proprietary Items (Score:2)
Absolutely!
Not here.
Nope.
Never.
So, can I have her address and phone number, now?
Re:yeh...yeh...yeh... blablabla... (Score:2)
And yes, I fully support the offering of other virtual machine formats (xen, parallels, etc) as well.
Point is if you want me to try something, a pre-made ready-to-run virtual machine image is a *huge* incentive for my lazy and time-constrained ass.