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Mac Pro, Mac OS X Virtual Desktops Announced at WWDC 647

haym37 writes "Of the many announcements yet to come at WWDC, the first is the announcement of the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro contains two Intel Xeons, up to 3 GHz, and is supposed to be 1.6x to 2.1x the speed of the PowerMac G5 quad. It can hold up to 2 TB of internal storage and up to 16 GB of memory. The graphics card can be up to a Radeon x1900 or an FX4500. The case will be the same as the PowerMac." is providing running coverage from the floor (Note: "[U]pdates will be automatically inserted at the top of the updates section. Do not reload manually."), including another announcement that OS X will include virtual desktops. What a great idea!
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Mac Pro, Mac OS X Virtual Desktops Announced at WWDC

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  • FP? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dosius ( 230542 ) <> on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:23PM (#15860303) Journal
    I'd just like to see more OSX capability in GNUSTEP, so that we can have a free and open OSX as we're getting a free and open Windoze in ReactOS.

  • by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuation&gmail,com> on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:28PM (#15860337)
    I'm loving Boot Camp and the ability to use my Macbook Pro at home (OS X) and work (Windows XP). I had to use Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit to remap the right-hand Command key into a "delete" button so I could log into our domain...and I don't have the ability to use home/end/pgup/pgdown by depressing the fn key...which is OK since I use a bluetooth keyboard at work anyway. However, if I get some indication from Apple that they're going to provide full keyboard support for their notebooks under Windows XP, I'm definitely going to upgrade to Leopard.
  • by demondawn ( 840015 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:29PM (#15860347) Journal
    ...I am a bit surprised at the stagnancy that seems to be pervading Apple's style choices. Now that we've entered the Kubrick-esque world of white (or black!) plastic and brushed aluminum, it doesn't seem like the Apple line has anywhere to "evolve" to. The MacPro's case, for example, is simply the G5 tower case with another whole in it. The user experience seems to be a bit stagnant too; while I do believe that Tiger outshines Vista, and Leopard will as well, I've yet to see anything that says that Leopard will be a major leap for the end-user. Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong...
  • Best Quote (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ericdano ( 113424 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:30PM (#15860357) Homepage
    "Don't want Redmond's photocopiers started too early"

    Seriously. Steve is smart NOT to show off every little detail of 10.5. Look at Microsoft, they promised so much in Longhorn/Vista, then take things out.
  • by gbulmash ( 688770 ) * <> on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:30PM (#15860360) Homepage Journal
    The $2499 mid-range will sport TWO Xeon 5150s, and the high end will sport dual 5160s?

    I was hoping he's say the high-end will not be available until October (since I'm planning my Mac as a late-Oct birthday present to myself) and will sport a double-dose of the quad-core chips Intel is releasing in Q4.

    But hey, dual 5150s for $2500? I think I might just buy that baby and an extra flat panel instead.

  • Re:Why criticise? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by porcupine8 ( 816071 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:40PM (#15860444) Journal
    Window shading... Like in OS 9 (and below)? :) Personally, I shelled out the $10 for Window Shade X []. I hate using a mac without it.

    I'm very very pleased with finally getting virtual desktops. I've been using Desktop Manager [] and will continue to until I get a computer with Leopard on it (probably a few more years), but it annoys me that I *need* a third-party app for that. (And window shading, for that matter.)

  • by commonchaos ( 309500 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:44PM (#15860460) Homepage Journal
    Does anybody know if Apple made their own technology to do backups, or did they actually implement ZFS? (there were rumors that they were going to put ZFS in 10.5)
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:45PM (#15860467)
    As for the case design, I think Apple is sticking with a good thing until people get comfortable with Intel being in a Mac. To many crazy changes all at once can really scare users, and stock holders. Having the new Intel Macs look a lot like the old ones will make sure the person feels like they are using a Mac, not a fancy PC running OS X. Bright White, Shiny Black and brushed metal, (Black, Gray, White) are newtral colors that go well with most colors and look good in most homes, offices, and dorms, to match our cultures more consertive nature, in the 90's the "Hippy" styles and colors were popular and so Apple made their computers to work with that culture. It is like from going from college to work. (For me since I graduated 2001 it makes most sience) In college you wore very libral clothings and in the Corprate enviroment you are more town down, you may still look good either way but you are more formal. The same with Apples. The early iMac (G3) were attened mostly for college students, iMac G4 was a transistion still fun but a little more formal, to the G5/Intel Mac (which I personally dont care for) while interesting and different is more of a formal design. The same with the iBook/Mac Books, Now Black was added because they sold some black iPods and they were popular so they added black to the list, and I am sure using a Black Mac Book seemed more Manly then using the white ones. Brushed Metal Systems (for their Pro Line) are attened to look somewhat intimadating, They are ment to look more powerful and used for real computing. If you were an IT Consultant and you used a Mac Book Pro that were coled like the Toilet Seat iBooks you wouldn't be taken as seriosly as if you had a Brushed metal, or having a server room that looks like candy store. Perhaps color Macs will be in the future but right now Dull/Clean colors are in.
  • Re:I agree (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Orion_ ( 83461 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:48PM (#15860486)
    [re: spotlight] Imagine that... quick access to your applications, including recently used ones... Sounds an awful lot like a "Start Button" to me.

    Obviously you have no idea what Spotlight does. It's a search feature, and they intend to make it more convenient to search for applications. It is NOTHING like the start menu, which basically just presents you with a list of files (and thus boils down to just another take on the Mac OS 7-9 Apple menu, speaking of photocopying OS features).

    I'd guess the "recent items" feature they were referring to pushes more recently used items to the top of the list when you search.
  • by linguae ( 763922 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:48PM (#15860487)

    If you downgrade the Mac Pro to the 2.0GHz configuration (two 2.0GHz dual-core Xeons), you save $300. If you downgrade the 250GB hard drive to 160GB, you save another $50, bringing the cost to $2,149. Still a little more expensive than the base $1,999 Power Mac G5, but the base Power Mac G5 didn't have two dual-core processors (just one dual-core G5). Quite a great deal.

    Yes, I would have loved for Apple to release a cheaper tower computer. However, Apple doesn't do product announcements like that during the WWDC. The WWDC is about releasing products intended for professional Mac developers; the operating system and the flagship developer machines. Professional developers such as MS, Apple, Adobe, and the rest of them need the most powerful Mac they can get with their money; the Mac Pro fulfills their dreams. Apple releases other products either during some other conference (such as the Paris event every September and MacWorld), or just out of the blue on a Tuesday morning.

    For all of you dreaming about MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo machines, Apple tablets, $1000 Core Duo mini-towers, $700 Core Solo MacBooks, and other announcements, there is still plenty of time for Apple to release those products. Apple doesn't announce nor release those types of products during the WWDC.

  • Re: Why criticise? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gidds ( 56397 ) <slashdot AT gidds DOT me DOT uk> on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:49PM (#15860502) Homepage
    IKWYM. I don't mind too much, though, coz Desktop Manager is so good. Fast, simple, can work in several ways (pager shown on desktop, pager shown in menu bar, switch desktops with hotkeys and/or by moving to the edge), has some useful transitions. My only complaint is that it's hard to move windows between desktops.
  • Re:Why criticise? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by timothy ( 36799 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:52PM (#15860521) Journal
    Hey, my comment was snarky, but I apologize if it came off as critical -- just the opposite! In fact, one of the reasons I ditched OS X on my iBook (which, to be fair, is 6 years old and was a decent laptop with OS X or Ubuntu, until recent hard drive noises) is that I don't like the constrained feel of OS X. I always want to zip over to another desktop ... which isn't there ;)

    However, when I visit the Apple corner of the local CompUSA, I am as usual impressed by the hardware; with virtual desktops, one of my main gripes about OS X is gone. (I still prefer Gnome-on-Linux to OS X for now, for both aesthetic and software-freedom reasons, but in matters of taste, there is no disputing ;)).


  • by Hootenanny ( 966459 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:54PM (#15860537)
    I was at first skeptical when Apple said there are "millions of configurations" for the new Mac Pros. So I tested it out...

    Based on the options from the Apple Store configuration page, the total combinations possible is given by 3 * 6 * 3 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 6 * 4 * 4 * 2 * 4 * 2 * 2 * 4 * 2 * 3 * 5 * 2
  • Re:ATI? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Beefslaya ( 832030 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @02:56PM (#15860555)
    You have the option for either...
    Matter of fact, the NVIDIA 7300GT is standard, and you can have upto 4 of them.
    All bets are off with this one.
  • Re: Why criticise? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by porcupine8 ( 816071 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:10PM (#15860659) Journal
    I don't often memorize complex hotkey combinations, but I did memorize command-control-arrow key to move windows between desktops. Because, yeah, it was annoying before I did that.

    The one thing that worries me about Spaces is that the website implies that you might only be able to have an app running in one window. (Implied by the fact that you can click on something in the doc and go right to that app's "space" - I'll admit, I've wanted to do this.) What if I have one Word doc that goes with this stuff, and one that goes with this other stuff?

  • Anybody notice this? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by magnamous ( 25882 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:28PM (#15860789)
    From the Leopard Accessibility [] page:

    QuickTime currently supports closed captioning by including a text track alongside audio and video content. But improved QuickTime support will automatically display the CEA-608 closed captioning text standard in analog broadcasts in the U.S.

    In analog broadcasts? Wouldn't that suggest some sort of interoperability with TV equipment? Which would require hardware...hmm...perhaps a hint at things to come?
  • 64GB RAM? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by not-enough-info ( 526586 ) <> on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:28PM (#15860800) Homepage Journal
    16GB RAM and 2TB of disk is overkill, but...
    Is there anything preventing the MacPros from sporting 8x8GB FB-DIMMs or 4x750GB drives?

    Will this box be able to achieve the max 192GB ceiling for FB-DIMMs?
  • by DJGreg ( 28663 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:33PM (#15860840)

    System Restore in WindowsXP is not the same.

    Now Volume Shadow Copies that is found on Windows 2003 Server probably comes close, although it is hardly a robust or reliable solution.

  • More likely Aperture (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BearRanger ( 945122 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @03:58PM (#15861028)
    More likely it's an extension of the versioning system available in Aperture. It wouldn't be the first time Apple has taken the functionality of an application and extended it throughout the OS.

    Given that this is a developers' conference they would have said ZFS if it were ZFS.
  • by nigham ( 792777 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:15PM (#15861125) Homepage
    At the keynote, they showed entire stacks of iPhoto photos being "undeleted", which means after being "deleted" they were lying around, taking up space. Add videos to that, add huge temporary files that you might copy onto your computer; where does that leave your hard disk space? I'd like to know: at what point does this Time Machine stop? Or is it intended to keep storing backups of *everything* right up to the time it runs out of drive space? Whats the recovery strategy? Who decides which files are more important to keep than others?
  • by rworne ( 538610 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:35PM (#15861263) Homepage
    Sure, but remember what you said:

    there was fear that the company could see everything you've ever deleted

    This will be a problem only if Macs make big inroads onto corporate desktops. Considering corporate IT shops are based on whatever Microsoft and Dell have to offer, it will be some time before this becomes an issue. For the home user, it's great for the exact reason you mention.

    That's not really meant to be an anti-apple troll, but rather a sad commentary on IT shops.
  • by Blakey Rat ( 99501 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @04:59PM (#15861475)
    I guess the more correct term (from Googling) is "tabbed windows." Here's a screenshot of them: []

    Basically, if you drug a window to the bottom side of the screen, the title bar would turn into a tab. Then clicking the tab would pop-up the entire window, which behaved exactly like a normal Finder window. The tabs persisted across reboots (mostly, it was a bit buggy, especially with resolution changes.)

    I kept all my applications in one tab and my documents in another. If I wanted to open a jpeg in Photoshop instead of GraphicConverter (the default), I could pop-open my documents folder, grab the icon, drag the icon away from the tabbed window (which disappears), hover the icon over the tab for the applications window (which opens), then drop it on the Photoshop icon. When you describe it in text, it sounds awkward... but believe me, it's brilliant.

    I based my entire computer workflow around tabbed windows, and I miss it a lot. Why Apple would bring back *Labels!* of all things and not tabbed windows, I'll never know. (My guess: Finder coders are lazy, and labels were easier.)
  • by XMLsucks ( 993781 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:16PM (#15861596) Journal
    Desktops and hand helds have very different requirements than mainframes, and thus when someone migrates a mainframe solution to a consumer environment, they often have to redesign. Apple's solution for Time Travel has massive integration with the applications to give a nice user experience; I've never seen such integration offered by versioning file systems before. This is quite a move forward.
  • Re:Underwhelming.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vought ( 160908 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:30PM (#15861689)
    The versioning FS is nice, but it's really just a pretty UI on something that VMS had a couple of decades ago.

    Cool. Well, let us know how using VMS goes for you. Myself, I like to use Photoshop, and I don't think Adobe's shipping that for VMS yet. I'd use Photoshop on Windows, and that doesn't have a versioning file system yet either. Darn. Guess I'm stuck with a Mac and it's twenty-year-old idea that someone finally brought to the desktop. Shucks.

    Spotlight over the network? The pre-Tiger technical docs I read about Spotlight said that it was a Tiger feature; the fact that I didn't even notice that they'd pulled it shows how useful it is.

    Your reading comprehension sucks. Spotlight is in Tiger. The new feature is that it now indexes and searches public files over the network.

    Core Animation? Maybe nice, I'd have to see. It sounds like they're really going after Adobe with that one though; I hope it doesn't backfire...

    Uh, how does this go after Adobe? This is an API developers can use to add features to applications. Does Adobe create APIs for Apple's OS now? Does Adobe write development environments for applications? I can't see how you might compare this to Flash unless...well, given all your other comparisons, maybe you're just that dense.

    Mail stationary? I hated that 'feature' in Outlook Express a decade ago, and I can't imagine not hating it today.

    Take a moment to surf over to Apple's web site and look at the stationery. Come back here and tell me that it's remotely like Outlook Express ten years ago. Then I'll know you're certifiable - as if your previous comments weren't enough. And you're not forced to use it. Good lord, what a whiny ass titty baby you are.

    The most disappointing thing was the lack of Core 2 MacBooks. I was planning on ordering one this evening.

    No you weren't.

    The Mac Pros look nice, but I can't imagine buying a desktop in 2006.

    Yeah, I hate it when people don't ship the things I want. I mean, I I can't believe Apple has the gall not to live up to the rumors sites' promises! I'm really disappointed that GM hasn't shipped that Hybrid H2 with six-wheel drive yet either.

    What even harder to believe than your weirdly off base post is that it was modded +4 insightful when I started this reply.
  • Re:And... iCal (Score:2, Interesting)

    by sapporo ( 552550 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @05:46PM (#15861822)
    The really interesting thing to me isn't a new iCal Client, it's iCal Server, an open standards-based, open source Calendar Server: ver.html []
  • Re:Photocopied! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nitehorse ( 58425 ) <> on Monday August 07, 2006 @09:10PM (#15863043)

    It *does* look awfully nice, nicer than most X11 WM implementations of virtual desktops so far that I've seen.

    By look you mean aesthetics or what? And the *features* (I really care for them - not the look).

    The aesthetics, sure - the zooms are all smooth, there are little animations everywhere, there's an arrow in the translucent pager that pops up when you switch desktops that indicates to you where you went and where you came from, etc.

    Having live previews of your applications (movies that continue playing, etc) is a great feature, and you can move them between desktops while they're updating live.

    Exactly as I am now doing in Linux with Xgl. Maybe that is why I find the phrase "quantum leap" as a bit extragerating. Have a peak:

    I've played with Xgl and AIGLX and Compiz and the Metacity compositor support and they're all really fun and very neat, but they don't work everywhere and they're not on by default yet. (The alt-tab live previews in Compiz are really sweet, too.)

    Also, the system will automatically switch you to the relevant desktop when you click on an app that isn't running on the current one.

    You mean clicking on app icon that isn't running on current desktop or what (since you can't click an app that is on different desktop)? Well you can do this on X11 WMs also.

    Sorry, I should have been more specific. So, say you're on Desktop 1, and you launch Safari. Then you shift to Desktop 2, and you launch Mail. If you click on the Safari icon on the Dock, it animates the switch back to Desktop 1 where Safari is running. It's not revolutionary, but it is kind of obvious; most Linux desktops don't have a concept of an 'Application' - they know about windows, specifically, and some WMs will switch properly to another desktop if you select a window on it, but there's no animation, and (at least in Metacity) often the window you clicked on doesn't actually get the focus.

    X can definitely do live previews, *if* you have Composite and a decent compmgr (like compiz) and something like Xgl or AIGLX.

    I have it. :)

    So do I. They're neat, and they're a lot of fun, but it can be kind of difficult to get it set up if you're not very experienced.

    However, these technologies are still in their infancy and far from ready for mass consumption,

    Oh and Leopard is in mass consumption really. Where to buy it?

    Now, I never said that. But I do have Leopard right now, or at least a Developer Preview of it, so it's not exactly vaporware, either. Plus, Apple seems pretty good about shipping things when they say they're going to, unlike certain other OS companies, like, say, Microsoft...

    and many of the video cards lack the proper support for accelerating all the nifty 3D goodness that the new toys require.

    My quite old nvidia does it perfectly. Geez it is only some 2D effects and very few real 3D.

    Heh, I should have been more specific - there are *tons* of cards which are capable, of course, even cards that are five or six years old - but on X, most of them don't have drivers that support these capabilities yet. NVidia's cards only work with their binary drivers; some of ATI's cards work with the open drivers, some only work with their binary drivers, and some don't work at all; the Intel driver is notably pretty good but the cards are fairly unimpressive; and the drivers for other cards are in lots of different states of completeness.

    As usual, Apple is doing a good job, with some (in hindsight) obvious improvements.

    Which are? You've named live previews (yup we have it) and switching t

  • by MacDaffy ( 28231 ) on Monday August 07, 2006 @09:20PM (#15863085)
    Currently Apple has a 12% market share in notebooks, they are still easily the underdogs for now. What gives them the right to bash down Microsoft? Because of similiar features, oh damn.

    I wasn't aware that Apple and Microsoft were competing in the laptop market! And Apple's marketshare in laptops is rising. That may not be leading the pack, but rising share isn't usually associated with "underdog" status.

    I am sorry but if you company was close to saved due to 150Million in 1998 from the very company you are throwing a fit at, you have issues.

    Apple had four billion dollars in cash in 1998. Look up the history of the Microsoft-Apple agreement. Microsoft helped Apple--no doubt--but Microsoft needed that agreement as well. Microsoft makes more money per user from its Macintosh customers than it does from Windows customers. Apple's continued existence is a buffer against Microsoft having any worse antitrust troubles than it already has. Microsoft also got some technology that went into XP from the deal. Microsoft and Apple are competitors. They will always needle each other. It's no big deal.

    Secondly, if you are completely playing an ego trip onto a company that has way more customers than you have currently. Boot Camp has 1/2 a million downloads BECAUSE probably 50% of those people want to use XP.

    Try ninety percent. But even Apple is suggesting that users get Parallels to run Windows XP rather than Boot Camp. I've tried it and it works very well. The fact is that many crucial applications run only on Windows. I'm suggesting to local realtors that they got an Intel Mac, install Parallels, and use it to access a Windows-only website essential to their business. One machine, two uses. Running Windows on a Mac helps sell more Macs. Again, they're competitors, but they each benefit from the other's existence.

    I'm fed up with Apple after seeing/reading about that conference, they are on an ego trip, and i definitely look down on them for that.

    Apple is competing with Microsoft and doing a damned good job of it. They're also the leading force in personal computing today. Apple might crow and show off now and then, but I prefer that to a company that would rather make itself look bad than to facilitate adherence to standards in the industry. Microsoft has "embraced and extended" critical standards and doesn't hesitate to make changes that enhance its own operating system and products at the expense of others. The company's antitrust troubles are due to its "take-no-prisoners" method of competing. Being "fed up with Apple" for a little crowing at the developer's conference seems out of proportion to the offense. Especially given those of the competition.
  • Re:FP? (Score:-1, Interesting)

    by zbrimhall ( 741562 ) on Tuesday August 08, 2006 @02:35AM (#15864206)
    Just some thoughts from someone who used to be a heavy user of GNUstep and Objective-C.

    I think that that a more ambitious and useful plan would be if GNUStep project were rebooted to implement Cocoa / OS X rather than a dead operating system (NextStep 3.3).
    There are indeed GNUstep developers who hold this as a priority. It's worth noting, I think, that GNUstep is not a re-implementation of a dead operating system, but rather Yet Another Implementation of the OPENSTEP specification, which Apple also implements via their Cocoa APIs. Not that I don't get your point, though. On the one hand you have people who want to chase Apple's additions and revisions to the OPENSTEP specification, thereby ensuring a level of source compatability in Linux (and Windows, and wherever else GNUstep is ported) with apps written for Mac OS X; but on the other hand you have people who just want to focus on having a solid implementation of OPENSTEP, without which no user in the world is going to want to deal with GNUstep. In the first case, you get a potential WINE-like situation with no real hope of success, in the second case you get a desktop with no compelling features to attract users and developers, because GNOME and KDE are Good Enough.

    It wouldn't hurt either if it adopted the GTK theme engine and other modern UI guidelines so at least it looked and felt like just another application rather than some weirdo UI with its own window manager.
    The problem with running GNUstep apps in GNOME is less about the theme (which, by default, is ugly but functional), and more about the different approach to how an application is presented to the user. "Regular" apps and GNUstep apps don't fit together because they follow different interface paradigms. There are efforts to make GNUstep apps play better with GNOME and KDE, but I don't personally see how that is a good thing for the user interface. I hate how GNOME, KDE, and Windows apps run (menus under window title bar, app closes when the window does). I equally hate how NeXT and GNUstep have the menu floating in a vertical way instead of anchored to the top of the screen. It gets in the way of maximized windows.

    I tried for a long time to use GNUstep+WindowMaker, because like the way it operates. It makes more sense to me (and, to expose my bias, feels more Mac-like). Unfortunately, it is in a very rough state. But the most important parts of OPENSTEP have been implemented, so here's hoping for a future free world run on Debian GNU/Hurd+GNUstep+WindowMaker!


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