Liquid Armor the New Bulletproof Vest 629
kjh1 writes "Armor Holdings Inc. plans to start selling their 'liquid armor' next year. The new armor, originally envisioned to be spread on like peanut butter, is instead sprayed onto Kevlar in ultrathin coats. From the article: 'it's a mix of polyethylene glycol, a polymer found in laxatives and other consumer products, and nanobits of silica, or purified sand. Together they produce a "sheer-thickening liquid" that stiffens instantly into a shield when hit hard by an object. It reverts to its liquid state just as fast when the energy from the projectile dissipates.'"
Video link (Score:5, Informative)
clicky [break.com]
...the slow blade penetrates the shield (Score:5, Insightful)
--Dune
What about Ringworld? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Video link (Score:5, Funny)
"What are you doing, soldier?"
"Painting my groin, sir..."
Re:Video link (Score:4, Informative)
So I have the choice of one DRM infested video, or another DRM infested video wrapped in a Flash Movie. Thank you.
I was forced to see it in a slightly different version of the DRM infested video wrapped in a Flash Movie [google.ca].
Re:Video link (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Video link (Score:5, Funny)
Of course, they also have the benefit that whenever someone shoots at the armour, the bullet is bounced directly back down the barrel of their gun, possibly killing them.
Re:Video link (Score:3, Informative)
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Re:Video link (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Video link (Score:5, Informative)
The real reason it's better to have it bounce off is that the energy of impact is distributed over a wider area. Sure, getting shot in the nuts with no protection but this armor is going to put your childbearing days to an end, but it's probably not going to kill you, as opposed to the massive tissue damage that would result in getting shot with no protection. the bullet might go all the way through (thus imparting less energy) but everything between the point where it entered and the point where it exited would be hamburger, and an area in diameter proportional to the caliber of the bullet would suffer serious shock damage.
The way this stuff will end up being used, is over certain strategic pieces of hard armor, so the problem with transferring more energy to a delicate area will be minimized, and the type of protection can change from heavy plates (which have to be able to stop a bullet themselves) to kinetic padding to distribute impact. The advantage of being able to wear full body armor that is light and breathable cannot be overstated. Currently you can only wear very little armor because of the weight, which increases casualties from things like shrapnel which would be little more than a nuisance to someone wearing a suit of this stuff.
Re:Video link (Score:4, Informative)
Unfortunately the doubled energy of the equation causes your nuts to collapse into a singularity which is at least as bad as getting shot in the nuts with no armor, and maybe even worse.
Re:Video link (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks.
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This is why it's useful in tires, not because it "resists punctures". Tell me how well your tire resists pu
Re:Video link (Score:3, Informative)
As an ancestor post pointed out, the kevlar just slows down the incoming bullet. For a rifle bullet at 2000-3000 fps, it slows it down enough for the ceramic pla
Energy, yes. Momentum, not so much... (Score:4, Informative)
Point #1: Momentum is a vector quantity. This means that a bullet approaching a person from the left and a bullet leaving said person, heading right, have totally different momentum vectors.
Point #2: In situations where outside forces can be ignored (such as a bullet impact), momentum is said to be "conserved". This means that any momentum change the bullet experiences has to be equal and opposite to the momentum change the person experiences. A bullet of mass "m" which is travelling to the right at speed "v" has momentum "mv" (taking the direction "right" to be positive). Similarly, the same bullet travelling to the left at speed "v" has momentum "-mv". Therefore, a bullet which ricochets off at its initial speed has TWICE the momentum change compared to a bullet which simply stops. As a result, the person has to experience double the momentum change as well.
This means that a ricochet imparts MORE momentum to the target than an embedded bullet would, which is (as another poster remarked) why solar sails are reflective.
Re:Video link (Score:5, Insightful)
But anyway, both PEG, and sand are really cheap, so depending on what is published you should be able to make this at home if you are so inclined.
I'd also expect the DuPont company to try to bring this to market - maybe in their auto paints? I'd be willing to bet they provided significant funding based on the fact that the demo utilized kevlar, and that the research was done at the university of delaware.
I wonder how simple this really is, while PEGs vary greatly in molecular weight, and there is an infinite span of concentrations, really, knowing only what the video told us, anyone with an interest should be able to figure it out.
Re:Video link (Score:3, Funny)
Just don't paint too quickly, or your brush might suddenly become a hammer.
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How do you make nano particles of silica?
-matthew
Re:Video link (Score:4, Interesting)
Motorcyclists! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:One Question... (Score:5, Insightful)
This stuff sounds like.. (Score:3, Funny)
Other Applications (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, not if it's your safety you're worried about, rather than the cars. You want the car to deform, so your decelleration slows down. Just like a helmet, you want it to break so you don't.
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Insightful)
Try as I might, complete with diagrams and models, I could not get across the idea that this was a good thing, and that had the car not done the crumpling, the passengers would have - and who cares if the car's repairable when everyone in it's dead?
Re:Other Applications (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a common fallacy when people have just a rudimentary understanding of physics and no other applicable knowledge. A car that crumples well is only definitely better when it's car vs much more massive stationary solid object (e.g., a rock face). When it's two cars, however, it's more like the game theory example of the prisoner's dilemma. If both cars crumple well, then it's fairly good for both. If, however, one vehicle is both more rigid and more massive—something common to older cars—then the situation is greatly weighted in that vehicle's favor. An extreme example of this would be an M1 Abrams vs a small Toyota.
Thus, if you don't give a shit about the other guys as long as your kids are safe, and you're not a drunk/wreckless driver that is likely to slam into a building/rock face/telephone pole/whatever, the safest option may well be the biggest, heaviest vehicle with a strong frame that you can possibly find.
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Funny)
I would think it very unlikely that a driver reckless enough to be likely to slam into buildings or rock faces would remain wreckless for long.
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Informative)
Your example relies on a signficant difference in mass as well as overall rigidity of the two vehicles in question. Deformable frames being about absorbing energy (and momentum, being an inelastic collision) in an impact. An M1 brings way more Kinetic Energy to the impact than can be absorbed by a deforming frame of a Toyota.
The safety of the passengers is dependent on how quickly the vehicle passenger compartment decelerates, as that will determine with what force they impact the interior of the vehicle (the so-called "second impact"). The M1 will not decelerate very much, but it is because of the mass disparity, not that it is rigid.
Obviously a crumple zone cannot absorb an unlimited amount of energy, but up to the amount it can absorb it is definitely good for you, whether you are hitting something rigid or not.
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Insightful)
(the following is directed toward the GP...)
So, sure drive a big heavy tank, and if you hit a well engineered Toyota you'll do great. Too bad about that Mom and her kids you just plowed through, tho
Re:Other Applications (Score:4, Funny)
Did these "friends" of yours also happen to have a car full of explosives and yelling "God is Great" when they hit the tank.
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Informative)
There are many dead SUV drivers to disprove your claim.
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people don't speak physics, so you just have to find their "language".
Just a thought.
False dichotomy (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Informative)
It is always safer to be in a deforming vehicle during a crash, assuming the vehicle doesn't deform so much that it crushes you. It doesn't matter whether you're crashing into a tree, an SUV, a tank, or another deforming vehicle.
If you hit a crumpling vehicle with your truck, the crumpling will decrease the elasticity of the collision and reduce the acceleration experienced by both
Re:American SUV? (Score:4, Interesting)
What if the prime reason for my big SUV with the big tires, and the skookum bush bar on the front is so I can say, go offroad? I grew up in a remote town, but now due to work I have to live in the city. I drive my bush beast on the road not to intimidate as you say, but rather for my own reasons. I like to throw my boat on the roof and go where few can go. My friends and I found a sweet de-activated logging road one day with trees growing in the middle of the road that were 2 meters tall. Sorry, but your honda civic can stay in the city. There was nobody around for prolly 15km. When I got back to work the next week, I was much less stressed out and misserable. Something about tossing a new propane cylinder in a fire puts a nice close to a sweet adventure! I believe in low impact offroading, but when the trees are in the middle of the road... fair game I say.
Now, thos SUV's with the low profile tires and chrome bush bars... I agree with you on that.
Re:American SUV? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:American SUV? (Score:5, Insightful)
If this is really what you bought it for (and actually do), Congratulations. You are one of the 0.5 % of SUV owners who actually should own an SUV. Unfortunately, 99.5 % of them are owened by soccer moms and men who need to overcompensate for something, and are just endangering us all on the roads, and burning very excessive amounts of gasoline.
Re:American SUV? (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole 'big vehicle' = 'better in snow' thing is something people made up. People who rarely drive in snow and don't know that even with snow on the ground you have fine traction.
Then they hit that one special stop sign that has a sheet of ice covered by a layer of snow, and -bam- they slide into an intersection in their biggun truk. Larger mass doesn't fix inattentiveness.
Re:American SUV? (Score:3, Insightful)
Another example, I live in a mostly rural state (Arkansas). I happen to live in an area that is fairly urban but not too far from significant outd
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Insightful)
Just try not to run into any trees or other non-crumple zoned objects.
/Any safety features are irrelevant if you're not wearing a seatbelt.
Re:Other Applications (Score:2)
That is, assuming such a coating would have any effect when applied in that way.
Re:Other Applications (Score:4, Funny)
Never say never!
Re:Other Applications (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider this:
We drove this new Ford(TM) Mustang(TM) with DuPont(TM) Protectoguard(TM) coating on the Jersy turnpike, for 200 miles, in construction, behind a Peterbuilt(TM) dumptruck. We recorded 390 discrete stone strikes. But thanks to the Miricles of Science (TM) there isn't a single paint chip in the finish. Blah Blah Blah. Now that's a BOLD move.(TM)
Damn, now I'll have to respec (Score:5, Funny)
Darn. Now I'll have to respec my Rogue to use maces instead of daggers.
Re:Other Applications (Score:3, Informative)
Okay what the fuck (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
"a polymer found in laxatives" (Score:5, Funny)
"it's a mix of polyethylene glycol, a polymer found in laxatives..."
As if having a gun fired at you isn't enough to make you shit your pants...
Magic Chocolate (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Magic Chocolate (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Magic Chocolate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Magic Chocolate (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Magic Chocolate (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, I did projects on this stuff. You can make some yourself with 1 part water and 1.44 parts cornflour; put it in at 1:1.3, then continue to add the rest of the flour while pouring. It'll get difficult to mix (don't do it in a machine, you'll break the machine, it's like stirring rocks at that speed) but a minute of perseverance will give you something you can bounce your thumb off or sink your finger in. Good fun. Kids love it, and it's easy to clean off; if it gets onto clothes then it just rinses out.
Re:Magic Chocolate (Score:3, Interesting)
No more vests? (Score:2)
Gloves (Score:4, Interesting)
Can they produce gloves able to stand up to shark bites ?
How about gloves for butchers ?
Would they be cheaper to produce than the steel-ring gloves used today ?
Are they water proof ?
How do they react to heat; could they be used in motorcycle clothing ?
Re:Gloves (Score:5, Funny)
Thereby forcing sharks to evolve frickin' lasers on their heads.
Re:Gloves (Score:4, Informative)
Custard (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Custard (Score:2)
Re:Custard (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Custard (Score:4, Informative)
I read awhile back (old wives tale maybe?) that being stabbed while wearing kevlar isn't always going to protect you as the knife does not have to penetrate the kevlar to penetrate the skin, especially cavity areas.
Re:Custard (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Custard (Score:4, Funny)
Sounds like a Non-Newtonian fluid to me. (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway kids if you want to create your own non-newtonian fluid fluid at home heres how.
1. Get your custard power, or corn starch (think baking soda can be used too).
2. Get a dish or a cup. More fun with a large jar though.
3. Add some water to the container and proceed to mix as much powder as possible into the water until it gets to a weird creamy/solid state.
You now have something which is a liquid and solid at the same time. Enjoy!
Emperor with No clothes (Score:2)
Yin Yang (Score:2)
Never the less, liquid armour sounds cool, can I have it in my motorbike kit? Lighter, more flexible armour that resists penetration can only make landing in a hedge that little bit safer. Of course, better armour means more dangerous riding...
Awesome! (Score:2)
What we can expect in the 21st century:
Oobleck (Score:4, Informative)
This stuff sounds like a dilatant [wikipedia.org].
Kitchen experiment: take some cornflour and some water. Mix one part of water to about two parts of cornflour until you get a thick paste. Play with it.
If you apply gentle pressure, it behaves like a fluid. If you apply strong pressure, it abruptly solidifies. Scoop up a handful and throw it at something, and it'll bounce. Drop something heavy into a bucket of it and it'll sink.
Beach sand also manifests this behaviour, under certain situations; occasionally you can find a patch of heavily waterlogged sand that's rock hard when you walk across it, but if you stand still you slowly find yourself sinking in.
Disclaimer: cornflour almost certainly does not make good body armour.
Re:Oobleck (Score:4, Interesting)
Getting out was pretty hard as the more he pulled the more it turned like concrete... pretty scary if you start sinking in this stuff and have nothing to hang on to!
Re:Oobleck (Score:3, Informative)
I was going to post about Oobleck, but first did a quick scan to see if anyone else had. We called it corn starch instead of cornflour.
I presume the name comes from "Bartholomew and the Oobleck" by Dr. Suess.
a slow kinjal penetrates the sheild.... (Score:2)
I wonder if a slow projectile would get through? Ok, obligatory Dune reference in the heading, but still I wonder...
A Similar idea (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm reminded of two things... (Score:3, Insightful)
2) What if he shot you in the face?
Re:I'm reminded of two things... (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the new suit they've been handing out to HMMWV turret gunners.
The suit is bullet & shrapnel proof, including the visor.
Cornstarch (Score:3, Informative)
The WikiPedia [wikipedia.org] entry actually has a video of this.
Snow Crash (Score:5, Interesting)
"Sintered Armorgel ; feels like gritty jello, protects like a stack of telephone books"
Maybe they should ask Neal Stephenson about using that as an ad slogan.
Also good for sports (Score:3, Interesting)
Gloves... (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice pair of Deerskin gloves with a layer of this inside would make brass knuckles so obsolete...
Non-Newtonain Fluids (Score:5, Informative)
I became suspicious when I read the phrase "nano bits of silica". Nano technology my big toe: that's a marketing flourish.
The article mentions that this is a sheer thickening fluid, what they probably mean is shear thickening. That would be a fluid where the coefficient of viscosity increases with increasing strain rates, instead of remaining the classically Newtonian constant. In this case it's probably because the glycol tangles around the silica particles and can't untangle quickly.
While it's quite possible the material can become a semi-solid for the brief duration of a dynamic impact there is no reason to believe, and lots of reasons to not to believe, it becomes a particularly strong solid. In a particulate reinforced composite, which this is in its pseudo-solid state, the matrix (the ethylene glycol) is important to the strength and being a simple organic molecule it's strength must be on the same order of, say, polyethylene.
TFA itself infers this, noting the original idea of using the material itself (in peanut-butter mode) didn't work out. Instead it is employed as the matix in a conventional fiber composite using Kevar or Spectra or something like that as the workhorse.
As in all conventional fiber composites, the fiber bears the load, the matrix supports the fiber. In this case the support, I conjecture, amounts to preventing the fibers from displacing away from the impact point, probably allowing fewer layers of fiber to absorb a given impact energy.
Whle this is innovative and a good idea, it's hardly liquid armour. What I would hope for and maybe expect is better performance against pointy, hard, teflon-coated projectiles of the cop-killer variety which work by nosing the fibers out of the way.
Re:Non-Newtonain Fluids (Score:5, Informative)
Bill Hicks (Score:3, Funny)
*pshwhshswsh*
"What's that?"
"Musket repellant."
Re:Shear-thickening (Score:2)
maybe they plan on making bulletproof pantyhose?
Re:Shear-thickening (Score:5, Funny)
In the heat of the moment, you push her against the wall and kiss. Heat. Fire. Desire. You reach down below her skirt, and trying to be spontanious, rip at her pantyhose... but wait! No satisfying tear or gasp escape from her lips...
"Liqui-hose, helping you dodge a bullet every night."
Re:Wolverine (Score:5, Funny)
Re:First real users will be... (Score:2)
Just imagine a war in a few decades:
Soldiers of opposite side standing a few metre appart, shooting at each other with hundreds of bullets without any effect what so ever. Now that would be,
Re:First real users will be... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:First real users will be... (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dune had it (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Dune - a common misunderstanding (Score:3, Insightful)
Frankly, Lord of the Rings is a grade school fairy
Re:Better armor = better weapons (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Gotchas (Score:3, Interesting)
The question is, can it be used (in sufficiently thick amount?) without hard-to-get materials like kevlar? I am really asking if you can make this at home. From the brief vid, it looked like point 5) above is very possible.
Re:You ever notice that in Starship Trooper, the g (Score:4, Insightful)
That was my objection to the movie. If you read the book, they all had mobile armour (and not soft, liquid armour either) with jetpacks and were spread about 100 yards apart when in combat. The only thing in that movie had in common with Heinlien's work was the title