Lithium-Ion Batteries Linked to Airplane Fires 244
smellsofbikes writes "The National Safety Transportation Board thinks it's possible that lithium-ion batteries caused a fire that destroyed a United Parcel Service airplane on Feb 8, 2006. The FAA already bans non-rechargeable lithium batteries from air shipment because aircraft don't carry fire suppression equipment capable of extinguishing lithium fires. The interesting thing is: these batteries aren't being used or charged, they're just being shipped: spontaneous battery combustion. Is this something that happens in the back of computer stores, or just on airplanes?"
squished? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:squished? (Score:2, Interesting)
The question I'm more interested in is.... (Score:3, Interesting)
UPS = Ooops (Score:5, Interesting)
Given how some of my UPS packages arrive looking like they were dragged to my house behind the truck, I would say that it is pretty likely that UPS is doing things to the batteries that my computer store doesn't.
Pressure? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, when you're on a commercial flight cruising along at 33,000ft, you may only be pressurised to 9,000ft and this, of course, includes your hand luggage.
Is it possible that the depressurisation to 9,000ft alt and the repressurisation on landing resultant expansion and compression cycle of the lithium batteries and causing them to somehow fail?
Re:squished? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The question I'm more interested in is.... (Score:4, Interesting)
False sense of security? Hell yes.
Re:squished? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:squished? (Score:5, Interesting)
It may not be UPS (Score:3, Interesting)
Some things only happen on airplane crashes.
Re:UPS = Ooops (Score:4, Interesting)
And for those who are wondering what this guy means, what he means is that the back of the truck gets loaded, with boxes stacked. Then the front of the truck gets loaded, by throwing boxes over the top of the boxes right in the back of the truck.
One of my buddies used to work for UPS in Santa Cruz, CA. They had a chute that the packages came down, about ten feet long, and crashed onto the conveyor belt, from which point they threw them at the trucks. The chute had a big nasty bolt sticking down in the top of it, and occasionally large packages would get stuck on the bolt, gouging big holes in 'em. Someone would have to climb up the shaft, and unclog it.
Re:squished? (Score:2, Interesting)
So what's the altitude/temperature tradeoff? (Score:3, Interesting)
With all that said, it's unsettling that a battery has *anything* going on in it when it's just sitting there in a brown paper box. Do Li-ion batteries have vents, like old lead-acid batteries? Can they evolve gas? (If so, what happens to their chemistry afterwards? it's not like they can recapture hydrogen offgassed: do they lose efficiency over time from this?)
I know much less about batteries than I thought I did.
Totally Possible... (Score:3, Interesting)
They are great batteries that are light with lots of power, but they are quite finicky. I always charge as slow as possible and use a temp probe to shut everything down if it gets too hot.
All that being said, I wonder how they could ignite if they are not in a charge or discharge (besides normal dishcharge as they sit unused) while in a cargo hold. I would think (no, I did not RTFA but hey this is Slashdot) they would need to be mutilated or highly disturbed in some way to catch fire.
Re:squished? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've taken apart a few lithium coin batteries. They have a soft metalic square of what I believe lithium on one of the plates. The metal is soft, can be easily cut and oxidizes from its shiny appearance to a dull grey in seconds. It can be easily ignited into a very bright light which seems brighter than the sun. Also, it can be dropped into a cup of water and it skeeters around like a little motorboat. Seems like pure lithium if I ever saw it!
The other lithium batteries seem to be some kind of oxide roll which gets very hot with exposure to air. Haven't been able to do pyrotechnic experiments with these yet.
It's been said before (Score:2, Interesting)
"The are two types of chemists: Those who have never worked with Lithium, and those who are scared to death of it."
Laptops on a Plane! (Score:1, Interesting)
Exploding digital cameras (Score:3, Interesting)
Back around 1992, I used to work for a Kodak dealer who sold the Kodak DSC200 series digital cameras. They were a Nikon 35mm camera body with a digital film back and Li based rechargable battery pack.
My boss was on a client site setting up to run a demo, these cameras cost AU$30k each, it was sitting on a counter waiting to be hooked up when it burst into flames.
While I wasn't present for the actual fire, I did see the melted unit afterward when packing it to be sent back to Rochester for tests.
This has been a *known* issue for a very long time.
Re:Spontaneous Lithium Battery Fires (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, as I said, I don't know much about lithium batteries, but batteries in general use chemical processes to store energy. Transfer that energy faster than the usual chemistry will allow (or physically stress them by knocking them around), and you shouldn't be too surprised if the energy is released through a more expedient means -- like combustion.
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more of this. The more energy we insist on packing into smaller and smaller batteries, the more inherently dangerous they become. Combine that with a low-margin market like laptop PCs where there is tremendous pressure to cut corners at every possible point, and you end up with yet another reason not to keep that laptop on your lap.