French Lawmakers Approve 'iTunes Law' 423
An anonymous reader writes "Lawmakers in the French government have passed a controversial iTunes law, which has the stated intention of forcing Apple to allow purchased music to be universally useable." From the article: "In a statement issued after lawmakers hashed out the final compromise text last week, Apple said it hoped the market would be left to decide 'which music players and online music stores are offered to consumers.' The final compromise asserts that companies should share the required technical data with any rival that wants to offer compatible music players and online stores, but it toned down many of the tougher measures backed by lower-house lawmakers early on."
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Funny (Score:5, Insightful)
So for music from the iTMS, the "technical data" is to burn to CD, rip to mp3, transfer to music player of choice.
To play on the iPod, other music stores just need to sell music in non-protected form (AAC or mp3).
Note that AFAIK (from summarized English translations) it says nothing of the process being free, easy, or lossless.
re: burning to CD (Score:4, Informative)
Honestly, I think DRM on digital music is going to prove to be utterly pointless - since computers allow making perfect digital copies of the original work, as long as it can be played on the system at all. It only serves to add an extra "speed bump" in the way of making copies of the songs you download.
Right now, for example, any Windows user can sign up for one of these unlimited music download services like Yahoo Music, Virgin Digital, or Rhapsody, and with a $19 copy of "muvaudio", batch process everything they download into DRM-free MP3s of any bitrate they desire. It uses "virtual audio patch cable" device drivers to make lossless digital copies of the music while it plays in Media Player, even keeping any sounds generated by other applications separate from what's recording, so you can still use the PC while it works.
Apple Mac users can do something pretty similar with "Audio Hijaack Pro" (although maybe not quite as automated and "fancy" with handling queued up playlists of songs).
Re:Funny (Score:2)
Re:Funny (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Funny (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple could obey the new French law by simply skipping the DRM part of downloading. The AAC format as such is not proprietary. Anyone can use it. The other music services can also just skip the DRM. UndDRMed files can still have origin information to trace flagrant copyright violators who put files up on the Internet. Updating the firmware in other music players so they can play unDRMed AAC or WMA files would be their manufacturers problem. Ipods alr
Understand (Score:2)
Re:Understand (Score:2, Insightful)
If they can't do it the way they want then it's not possible.
Re:Understand (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Understand (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Understand (Score:2, Insightful)
If you can hear the additional loss incurred by re-ripping to 192 kbps MP3, you have better ears than 99% of the population.
That means that iTunes isn't a good option for you to begin with.
Re:Understand (Score:2)
No, it means I still value a quality home system stereo, where I can assure you, the difference can be easily heard.
But, I'm of a different mindset than many these days....I'll not buy music online till I can get it in the best (lossless) format to beging with. I don't mind mp3's and such in horrible listening environments like the car or the gym, but, I do want to have the
awesome (Score:2, Funny)
What's that sound? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What's that sound? (Score:2)
Re:What's that sound? (Score:3, Informative)
Should be interesting to see what Apple do here. I strongly suspect that people are right and they will just shut the store, rather than have to open specs.
The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:5, Insightful)
He cannot.
Actually, the French decision IS the epitome of free trade: BOTH products, the iPod and iTunes have to succeed as the best platform. You can't have one product "tag along" with the other one. BOTH have to be successful to be the main player.
Now, I wonder if that verdict can be applied to the hassle around Windows and Media Player/IE...
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:3, Funny)
You forgot to mention that there must be a mime interpretation of the vid
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:3, Insightful)
If the manufacturer has a monopoly, he can squeeze out the most shoddy piece of crap possible and, if you want an item with the uses of the product, you HAVE to buy this shoddy piece of crap.
That is what was the Communist's downfall. The products were crap and the
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Sure it has a large portion of the market... but in reality if you want to choose a different company there are many different choices for players out there... and you can always buy CD's and rip them for whatever player you want (which is what I do... even though I have an iPod).
At the point where you cannot (reasonably) buy music any other way than through iTunes... then we will have a Monopoly. Right now there are still plenty of choices... so why the pre-
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2, Insightful)
To extend that logic slightly, Chevy should be required to tell eveyone how their engine control system works so you aren't required to purchase their engine and transmission along with the car; perhaps they should be required to also offer Volvo, Cummins or Ferrari engines. Or they should be required to sell multiple brands of seats.
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:5, Informative)
Chevy is required to tell how the system works - at least how to interface to it - so that it can be maintained. In fact, they even have to make their OBD-II powertrain codes available "for a reasonable fee".
On top of that, all popular automotive engines eventually become available as "crate motors" - it's a complete, never-installed engine in a crate. You buy the appropriate service manual, and you get complete documentation on how to interface to it. (Some of them are really old, and simple; for them, if you know what you're doing, you don't even need a manual. Like the 426 chrysler hemi, which was [fairly] recently made available... the drag race guys had bought them all up and converted them to alcohol and there were none left to speak of.
Please, stay away from the comparisons to the automotive world. You're just as bad at it as damned near everyone else. If you want to get engine specs, documentation, and the bare engine itself, you can, and there's no DRM stopping you from using it in any vehicle you like, either.
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
To extend that logic slightly, Chevy should be required to tell eveyone how their engine control system works so you aren't required to purchase their engine and transmission along with the car; perhaps they should be required to also offer Volvo, Cummins or Ferrari engines. Or they should be required to sell multiple brands of seats.
No, it's more like Chevy selling a car that can take either regular gasoline, or gasoline (that's exactly the same) from special "iGas" stations with have a near-monopoly o
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Well, in a way, yes. I'm about to purchase and iPod, but, I have no intention of useing iTMS to purchase music for it...I'll be ripping my CD collection to mp3 for the portable.
"Chevy should be required to tell eveyone how their engine control system works
Well, in a way, yes....there are laws that prohibit auto manufacturers from using codes an
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:5, Insightful)
It's quite cynical from a patent holder to invoke the right for free trade and the idea that in a free market the customer will settle the question which good is better. He cannot. Actually, the French decision IS the epitome of free trade: BOTH products, the iPod and iTunes have to succeed as the best platform. You can't have one product "tag along" with the other one. BOTH have to be successful to be the main player.
NO idea what you're talking about. Patents are fully compatible with free trade. In this case, there isn't really even a patent on the idea of listening to music in a digital format. All anyone has to do to get into this business is license the music from the copyright holder, and make your own damn online store and digital player. Oh wait, but you're not really going to be able to offer it at 99c, right? Thanks France, you just made it easier for the RIAA to anally probe us all. Itunes is a free software package. You can download music and play it on itunes. That is the purpose of the software package. A separate hardware package, the iPod, enables you to take that music onto a portable player. WTF is so hard to understand about that? Want an ipod, but not iTunes music? FINE!!! Get some mp3s. Want iTunes, but no iPod? FINE!!! What is the problem here?? You want neither, FINE!!! No one is shoving these products down our throats.
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2)
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps I can help. Patents are not fully compatible with the free market. Copyrights aren't either. Both are forms of GOVERNMENT granted MONOPOLIES.
Now if you want to get the government out of the market with their granting of copyrights and patents and let the market find its own solution to the problem, let us know.
As it is, people want these government granted monopolies (government interventions in the free market) and ye
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:2, Insightful)
Not to be too argumentative, but if this decision was applied directly to the bundling of IE/MediaPlayer/MSN Messenger/Outlook Express, etc., this law WOULD NOT prevent bundling, it would simply say that other companies should have the right to develop competing products (i.e. (Firefox, Mozilla, Opera)/(MediaPlayerClassic or any other codec-compliant video player)/(YIM, AIM, ICQ)/(any email/calendar/contact clie
Re:The market can only decide if it CAN decide (Score:3, Interesting)
Lets bring the DRM house of cards down (Score:3, Interesting)
Ipods already compatible (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ipods already compatible (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Just like France (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just like France (Score:4, Informative)
Business is supposed to work on the base that different manufacturers create different products. The customer, on the other hand, is the one to pick which product fits his needs best.
If the manufacturer forces him to use product A only with product B, the customer cannot make this decision. If he is forced to use product A if he wants to use product B, this violates the laws of free trade.
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just like France (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Just like France (Score:4, Interesting)
And the iPod would still be the #1 selling portable music player.
I actually don't believe that people are buying iPods for iTMS... it's a fun catch phrase... but honestly I think people buy iPods because they are "cool" and work well... and this iTMS thing come with it (part of the "working well" is being able to manage your music easily) that just happens to allow you to buy music online... which is just an added convenience to an already compelling product.
I have an iPod myself, and besides buying a few songs off iTMS when I first got it... I learned quickly that I wasn't willing to "pay the price" of Apple's DRM (for instance I make home movies on my machine... and like to use music I own as background music or music during the menus... but I couldn't do that with the songs I bought on iTMS).
So what did I do? Did I get all pissed at Apple and try to make them open their DRM? No... I just took my business elsewhere (I buy CD's for mainstream stuff, and eMusic.com for more obscure stuff). This is how the free market is supposed to work! The _market_ should decide what is right for them!
After getting a bad taste in my mouth from Apple's DRM I don't want to buy into DRM at all any more... which is why I won't be picking up an HD-DVD/Bluray player anytime soon. I've made my choice... I just don't want the crap... but I don't need the government to legislate other people's choices for them.
Friedmud
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
If I patent a new type of razor blade that only works with my patented handle, aren't consumers forced to use both if they want to use either? Or if the blade only works with my secret shaving cream formula?
Is the shaving system (music system) the product, or are the individual pieces the products?
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
Patents limit the offering side of the market. They can either limit the number of offerors (if the patent holder limits the amount of licenses granted to manufacture), or it can limit the qualities a product may have (if the patent holder limits the features you may implement, as it is with DRM).
I don't say that pate
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
Re:Just like France (Score:3, Interesting)
If the manufacturer forces him to use product A only with product B, the customer cannot make this decision. If he is forced to use product A if he wants to use product B, this violates the laws of free trade.
Not really, since other companies are free to offer an alternative bundle of Product A and product B. Usually, the only time this is illegal is when Either product A or product B is a monopoly, at which point it runs afoul of antitrust law.
In this particular instance, there are really four products
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
And no, Apple has neither a monopoly on music, nor on music players. They have a quasi-monopoly on legal online music.
Re:Just like France (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
That's right. It isn't. So why did you bring it up?
By the way, there are electric water pumps, and it's possible to make one work with either the 1973 dodge or the 1999 accord.
Don't use automotive similes! They almost never work.
There's no technological reason Apple can't give away the info to support fairplay, though there are
Re:Just like France (Score:2)
This story is misleading - that was is awfully bad (Score:5, Informative)
This article presents the DADVSI law as if it would be good for free software. It isn't.
With the law as it is passed, there is a very real risk that anyone in France who distributes software such as libdvdcss could face up to three years in prison.
Don't be distracted by the headlines about Apple. This law could be a major blow to legal playback of DVD and other protected digital media using free software.
French Lawmakers - Why do they care? (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps everyone in France should just download Tunebite http://www.tunebite.com/ [tunebite.com], and convert their protected iTunes downloads to readily playable mp3's. Or is there some sort of tax involved in all of this that the French gov't is after...
Re:French Lawmakers - Why do they care? (Score:2)
Liberte, Fraternite, Egalite.
Desole, slashdot casse mes accents!
Re:French Lawmakers - Why do they care? (Score:2)
Re:French Lawmakers - Why do they care? (Score:4, Insightful)
Another concern brought up by the Scandinavian cases is that Apple reserves the right to change the terms of the use of the product after you've paid for it, and you get no recourse if you don't like what they do.
Bwahahaha! (Score:2)
Re:Bwahahaha! (Score:2)
Re:Bwahahaha! (Score:2)
It's About Time... (Score:3, Insightful)
I still think it's stupid to force a company to help it's rivals - but at least the EU's trying to be fair about it.
It's not about helping your rivals (Score:2)
Competition does only exist when monopolies don't. And monopolies are amongst the most harmful things that could happen to a free market.
Re:It's not about helping your rivals (Score:4, Insightful)
The point is that people want to have a portable music player. They don't care what manufacturer is from (let's take the "ideal" customer for now, and he has no irrational preferences for any brand).
Now, this ideal customer makes the decision which player to get. And, being the ideal customer, he is also ideally informed (i.e. he knows everything about every player on the market).
Now he also knows that iTunes is maybe the most comfortable way for him to buy online music. So he will buy an iPod because he cannot choose another player if he wants that.
The point isn't that I don't want an iPod. The point is that I want the iPod to succeed because it is the better player and not because it has a foot in the door with iTunes. The customer does not care which player he gets, he chooses the "best" model for him. And here the iPod has the advantage of being "hauled along" with iTunes, a quasi-monopoly Apple has on the content side for your gear.
The goal is to keep Apple at its toes to make better iPods with better batteries, more space and so on. I don't want to "hurt" Apple, but I do want the best player for my money. And with the advantage of iTunes, Apple could create players that are under par compared with the competing manufacturers of portable music players and they'd still sell.
And that doesn't look good in my books of free market. He who makes crap should perish. He who creates better goods should rise.
Apple already provides this within iTunes. (Score:2, Interesting)
And yes, the CD burning and ripping part is built-in to iTunes already.
And yeah, Apple even tells you to do this to back your music up. So it's not like it is a hidden feature or some secret backdoor around the DRM or anything.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Apple already provides this within iTunes. (Score:2)
Re:Apple already provides this within iTunes. (Score:3, Insightful)
Meanwhile in France... (Score:2)
(wait for it
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
France just gave M$ a monopoly for WMP players (Score:2)
Coincidence? (Score:2)
Anyone want to buy some Miracle Metal (formerly Rearden Steel)? Anyone want to buy some MiracleTunes (formerly iTunes)?
Controversial (Score:4, Insightful)
How sad that a law that is in the best interests of the people in a democracy -- and of society as a whole -- is considered "controversial".
And let the mythical "invisible hand of the free market" take care of consumers? Yeah, right.
Damn right. Proprietary file formats are an abomination unto human civilization!
Sorry. I've had a little too much sugar...
Spreading DRM helpful to the populace? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why is standardizing on one form of DRM in any way helpful to the populace.
The Apple system of becoming the primary music playback device is helpful to the populace because it encourages other people wanting to sell music to use open formats - like eMusic which sells in MP3. It could well be that if there were only one form of DRM (say Microsoft) they would simply licence that and there would be no MP3 stores. If a mix of players were popular but had no shared open standard like MP3 the consumer would be equally screwed.
If Apple wanted to be truly closed and hurt the populace at large then the iPod would play ONLY protected AAC files. That is not the case.
I agree! (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously if people dont like iTunes format then dont buy them...there are plenty of options.
Re:I agree! (Score:3, Interesting)
But I think you are correct, the xbox analogy works better. But you can take iTunes music and put it on a CD and convert it to MP3 all with iTunes, you wouldnt even have to buy a convertor. Of course you would still look like an ass because you could have saved .20USD by going to
READ WIKIPEDIA'S ARTICLE (Score:5, Informative)
Most news sources just tell rubbish about this law.
This so-called "iTunes law" began as a law meant to criminalize peer-to-peer file sharing as well as any circumvention of DRMs.
The so-called "iTunes" clauses were introduced as amendments, proposed by free software activists who wanted to save the legal possibility of making free software players. Apple was a side casualty.
Archos-support legislation? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Archos-support legislation? (Score:3, Interesting)
Stop it (Score:4, Interesting)
Under the pressure of Big Businesses (tm) (and fanboys, but they only do harm on
The funnier is that the law that passed allows Apple to do what it wants with its DRMs, that is the kind of law thay wanted. And that is catastrophic.
it is already 'universally usable' (Score:3, Insightful)
if you burn your iTunes Store DRM tracks onto an Audio CD,
it will no longer be DRM protected, and it can be freely used
and converted for use on any other player -- the issue is not
a matter of can/cant, but of convenience.
2cents
Razors and razor blades (Score:3, Interesting)
If so, then where are the laws saying my Company A razor blade has to work with my Company B razor. I don't want to have to pay $5 for the Company A razor when I already have one that does pretty much the same thing from Company B. I know there is a solution called "Super Glue" (e.g. burn to CD and rip) but that would require me to buy Super Glue (blank CDs) so in some screwed up world we call Franch, that is unreasonable so what _is_ reasonable is to have Company B make their razor accept Company A blades. There, now everyone is happy
Let the market decide... HOGWASH! (Score:3, Insightful)
Pure hogwash. "Let the market decide" is a short form of "Let the free market decide."
We are talking devices protected by patents here for playing music and video protected by copyrights. Both forms of government granted monopolies. Where exactly is the free market in all of this again?
all the best,
drew
(da idea man)
Apple's Fairplay vs. more obvious locked platforms (Score:3, Insightful)
People posting about how they bought lots of iTMS songs, then moved to Linux, and now are hopelessly befuddled about their options, are complete liars pushing FUD.
An interesting comparison that nobody seems to be making: what about all the other platforms that make no effort at interoperability with other hardware or software? Why hasn't Scandinavia or France been grandstanding against:
- Sony Playstation games, which don't play on an Xbox, or a GameCube. None can be burned to CD and played elsewhere.
- Microsoft's Windows platform, which "locks" applications written to its APIs to its own OS? No way to burn your Windows apps to a CD and import them into Linux.
- Apple's Mac OS X software (apart from CLI apps) can't be burned to a CD to run on Linux.
- What about Linux' Gnome and KDE apps? Shouldn't everything be a massively fat binary to run anywhere?
( insert 5,000 other obvious and absurd examples here )
Further, rabidly attacking Apple over DRM is like attacking Starbucks over their coffee bean economics. They're the leaders in fair trade/shade grown/sustainable coffee production, so yeah attack them for trying to give a corporate shit about playing fair, then rejoice after putting them out of business, and watch ADM-CoffeeCo replace them selling Frankincoffee grown in the wake of slash and burned rainforest.
Or, in the case of Apple, do a dance on their tombstone, and then you can get rewarded by the WMA alternative, which doesn't support unlimited CD burning, expires tracks when you stop paying for subscription fees, and will soon only run on Paladium PCs.
How ruthlessly absurd.
The Revolution Will be Open Sourced!
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/146AE13C-A0
BSD & GPL: Different Sources for Different Horses
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/3FA34DA6-CD
Apple & Open Source... Strange Buffaloes?
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/EB25ECDF-0E
(shrug) (Score:2)
Erhhhh.... (Score:2)
In case you don't, let me remind you [wikipedia.org].
Re:When government needs to butt out. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh yeah, and the United States' capitalist-like laws have never done that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:When government needs to butt out. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Apple already complies (Score:2, Insightful)
I compromise on song quality by burning to cds and ripping back to mp3. Whereas, a cross format rights management solution would help me preserve the sound quality..
Also, iTMS does not have all the songs that I like. In that case, I need to buy songs from other stores and heck, I cannot play them on my iPod. I pay for my music and I should be allowed to play it in any player of my choice.
I can understand that ur an apple fanboy. But, remember that all the slashdot arguments would h
Re:Confusing (Score:2)
Re:Confusing (Score:2)
Humorous trolling (formerly known as satire) has a rich history. Need I mention Jonathan Swift and his Modest Proposal?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Confusing (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice broad sweeping generalizations there.
"Also, people who don't use ipods generally don't have as much love
Re:Confusing (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Bye bye to revenues for artists..... (Score:2)
Oh, great! I'm really looking forward to a French engineered MP3 player! Finally, an iPod Killer that will live up to the hype!!!!!111
Re:Monopoly? (Score:4, Insightful)
How will France lose their battle with Apple? Are Apple going to go to war with France? Of course not - they'll both lose, as Apple will lose revenue and the French government will lose taxes on that revenue. Whatever you think about France's decision here, equating 'socialism' with 'wrongness' is subjective, and cheap shots about French military victories (PML PUT IT IN GOOGLE LOL!) simply cheapen your post further.
Other than that, good try, thanks for playing.