Summer Camps Join Fray Against MySpace 251
The New York Times reports that now even summer camps are raising concerns about social networking sites such as MySpace, Friendster, and Facebook. Camps are worried about the ramifications of certain activities being associated with their summer programs after revealing pictures or postings are made online. Some camps are banning digital cameras, while others are instructing campers and parents to remove references to the camps from blog postings. Of course, the camps take the stance that they are merely trying to protect the children:
"The information that kids share today often is personal and private information that allows predators to track them down. We're also concerned about cyber-bullying."
And one time, on My Space (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And one time, on My Space (Score:2)
hehe just glad i was usually the only one with a camera at band camp
anyways, good luck with getting kids to not talk about camp. Complain about ppl talking behind your back and what do you suppose happens
Re:And one time, on My Space (Score:2, Funny)
So this one kid, who hates me because I'm better, looked over my shoulder while I was surfing.
When he saw the "News for Nerds" banner, he started shouting "News for Nerds! Stuff that Sucks!" over and over again. Everyone at camp stopped what they were doing to chant along.
I cried myself to sleep that night and the next day, everyone called me "nerdface".
Re:And one time, on My Space (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And one time, on My Space (Score:3, Insightful)
Barbarian.
Re:Pedophiles (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think you'll eliminate pedophilia without eliminating all humans. It's a simple equation, and evidence can be seen in the animal kingdom:
1. Females cannot be impregnated for some time after birth (there are (at least) two reproductive stages in the female's lifecycle).
2. Males prefer to raise children of their own creation (otherwise they're spending their own resources to support someone else's genes--sure, adoption works, even in the animal kingdom, but it's not the rule).
3. If a male impre
I heard... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I heard... (Score:3, Funny)
Banning progress does not work (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Banning progress does not work (Score:3, Insightful)
Observation. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the solution sits somewhere in the middle. That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety. Also parents need to educate th
Re:Observation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not at all - The simple solution to 99% of MySpace problems rests in recognizing that the "problems" don't exist in the first place. With the exception of the twits threatening to extort MySpace and posting about it thereupon, every other "problem" involved some busybody 3rd party authority-figure overstepping their bounds and panicking over harmless boasting and dick-waving.
So Little Jimmy posed with a bottle of Jack - Can you prove he drank it and that it contained actual whiskey, rather than drinking cherry kool-aid out of a previously empty bottle? Can you even prove the punk in the poor-quality overly-compressed picture, wearing the same style of clothes and hair as every other 14YO male in the country, as the same Jimmy?
So Susie has a list of people she hates and wants dead. We all (at least mentally) kept lists of people we hated and wanted dead. We just didn't act on them. Nor would Susie - Her "enemies" stand a better chance of dying in a freak accident involving snakes on a plane, than of her snapping one day and reenacting Doom down her school's corridors.
So a 40 year old guy has a MySpace page saying he likes cartoons. Ever met a Disney employee? They really do act like that, no hidden pedophile motives involved. And if he admits to playing with Legos - My god! Call the swat team, we might just... gasp... have an engineer on our hands!
That MySpace should make a concerted effort to work with parents to ensure their children's safety
Sure - Just as soon as those parents start paying MySpace to act as babysitters. Seriously - We have a basic issue of "responsibility" here, specifically, who bears it. Parents have a responsibility to raise their kids. MySpace does not, regardless of how many "tweens" use it.
MySpace represents the modern equivalent of playground gossip and note-passing. And, like it or not, the swingset doesn't censor its occupants, nor does the pencil refuse to write down obscenities.
What you do on the Internet has RL consequences and vice versa.
No - What you stupidly do on the 'net under your own name has consequences. Not that, if really motivated, you couldn't figure out my RL identity - I've probably given more than enough info without you even needing to leave Slashdot to track me down. But you can't just type in my real name in Google and see 183 reasons to fire me, 26 reasons to arrest me, and four reasons to execute me for treason (hey, don't forget that nontrivial crypto used to count as "munitions"). If these stupid kids would figure out the same thing, and do just a teensy bit to obscure their identities (no real names, blur faces and obvious location-signs in photos), we would all-but-stop-hearing about the evils of MySpace.
Re:Observation. (Score:2)
I never suggested such a thing. I said MySpace should work with parents in some way. Maybe actively educate parents about MySpace. Provide parents with some tools to monitor their child's page. I'm not asking for draconian measures but
Re:Observation. (Score:3, Interesting)
Not that I'm saying that parents should merely engage in covert snooping, but it certainly is a tool for them to get to understand what goes through the minds of their offspring.
Re:Observation. (Score:2)
No - they are made up of people, and they have some of the same rights, but ultimately they are not people and you shouldn't go thinking they are.
Why should a corporation bear any responsibility beyond what is legally required? A corporation didn't have any say in whether you spawned or not - a corporation gains nothing by your child's existence unless it is a customer.
You really need better reasons for others accepting respon
Re:Observation. (Score:3, Interesting)
Draconian Measures are fine, too. The problem is that it's pretty difficult to enforce such things, as MySpace and its ilk have no ID-verification service. And MySpace is so big, it really behooves the sexual predator or paedophile to join up -- there's an excellent chance they can find some dumb schmoe they're interested in attacking or exploiting.
Children shouldn't expect too much privacy since they're still kind of "in training", and especially shouldn't expect things they share with anonymous strange
Re:Observation. (Score:4, Funny)
Don't be so sure... Haven't you heard about "Google DirtFinder Beta"?
Re:Observation. (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, as long as typical Myspace page design continues to be considered just a faux pas rather than an evil.
You nailed the problem though - stupid kids. It's the stupid ones that can't realize that meeting that friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend from Mypsace might not b
Re:Observation. (Score:3, Insightful)
And start hearing about the fictitious evils of some other fad that most people won't understand so will believe.
Lets face it, the original family who are trying to dredge myspace through the courts are only doing it because there is a chance they will get paid. The lawyers repre
Bzzzt. Wrong. (Score:3, Insightful)
Also note that in my post above I did not single out parenting as a solution to the problem. In fact, I've never even me
Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (Score:2)
Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (Score:2)
Of course Slashdot opted not to fight the case but they might have lost.
Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. (Score:2)
Re:Observation. (Score:2)
I'm not a parent but I have a brother who has 5 kids, including a 13-year old girl, and his answer is simply to set really strict rules on computer usage. First, he has a squid proxy server in place
Re:Observation. (Score:2)
I have an idea.
If your kid is stupid enough to get themselves in deep shit on the internet after you've already made an attempt to educate them, then it probably can't be helped. Your stupid kid will find some other way to fuck up. And they're not going to "learn from your mistakes" that doesn't usually happen. Also, really now, does anybody think they'll be able to stop kids from being able to talk about things online? If it isn't one site it will be ano
Re:Observation. (Score:2)
I don't deny that parents are on the frontlines and a powerful influence. But there are other factors involved and some are indeed more powerful.
Re:Banning progress does not work (Score:2)
Still, most social networking sites have some kind of profile reporting system, usually staffed by volunteers, to keep nudity offline... but yeah, i can kinda see both sides of the issue on this one, both letting kids socialize, and at the same time trying to keep them safe. really it'
here's an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:here's an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:here's an idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure. What I'm concerned about is someone sneaking into the girls locker room, taking photos with their digital camera and spreading them all over the internet. Technology has changed what used to be a harmless prank into something potentially really nasty.
One word... (Score:3, Funny)
And forbid your child from removing it when outside the home, even in the locker room.
Re:here's an idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Need to blame someone (Score:5, Interesting)
They claim in the article that predators will use MySpace to discover summer camps where children are going and then possibly kidnap them or something worse. Summer camps don't suddenly pop-up over night and contact parents via ESP to get their children to come; they advertise in the paper, on the Internet, and by fliers. MySpace isn't tipping anyone off to these "secretive" camps, anyone can go to Google and find 30 summer camps without any problem. As for predators using the information to choose their specific target, probably not.
The article then goes on to say:
If they have to list this as one of the reasons to abolish MySpace, they need to grow up.
If someone can point me to some concrete facts about the number of abductions that have occurred solely as a result of a kid using MySpace (without any other factors) I will get off my soap box. I agree
one case is too many, and it is horrible, but would it have happened anyway without MySpace?
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:5, Insightful)
All kinds of shit goes on at summer camps that would cause parents to freak.
The administrators running these camps don't want those kinds of details to come out, since we know that people (regardless of age) are stupid when it comes to pictures on MySpace, FaceBook, Etc. It'd be a huge liability issue on their part. parents would be asking "how could you let [bad behavior caught on camera] happen?"
"For the children" is just the easiest way to get everyone onboard.
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:3, Interesting)
they are covering themselves from people saying bad things about problems with the camp but much more so, they know exactly what goes on at the camp. They probobly know that some parents also know what goes on and dont care but there are parents who would care if they knew and would at the least not send their children there and at the most, take legal action against the camp. I'm not sure exactly what is going on at these camps but if its not bad en
So now... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:2, Interesting)
Sure, MySpace can be dangerous, but so can anything other forum, or social thing in the world, for that matter. I guess I just wish people would spend less time attacking MySpace and more time teaching kids how to be safe and
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:2)
Parents don't want someone to blame for problems, they want to prevent problems. It doesn't matter who is to blame when your daughter turns up dead, because blame won't bring her back. Parents know there are fucked up people in the world, and the last thing we want to do is fuel their fantasies. but at the same time we don't want our children t
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:2)
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:4, Insightful)
Me too. The ironic thing is that those are the parents that simply should not have kids either.
I mean, since when will the old standby of waiting at a school bus or going to a shopping mall and pulling the "I'm sorry Johnny, your parents were just in an accident, and I was asked to take you to the hospital to see them" or similar trick stop working?
Yet again, more evidence that logic and reason go out the window when "computers" or "online" is involved. Every week I see kids missing on milkboxes or on those token mailers with the "Have you seen me?" on them. And you know what? I'm pulling this number out of the air, but its probably pretty close, over 90% of those missing kids were taken by most likely a parent or someone else they know. The others simply had such shitty parents that they just decided to fend for themselves.
Lets just put all kids and their parents in prisons and call it even.
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:2)
One means of protecting your kids from this trick is to discuss this possibility with them ahead of time. Then come up with a passphrase for strangers to use if they really are supposed to pick up the kids. It's what my parents did for me and my broth
Re:Need to blame someone (Score:2)
So much for... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So much for... (Score:2)
Max
Much like the fat guy in "Ernest Goes to Camp"... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's not blame MySpace for any behavioral/discipline/legal problems. The real problem is that, much like the Last Chance kids from "Camp," you spent all your time allowing the older kids to treat them like dirt, and only Ernest (despite the whole posion ivy incident) really cared about them -- enough so that he was able to stop Kramer Construction singlehandedly.
God, I love that movie.
what could be so bad? (Score:2)
A new age (Score:3, Insightful)
You're not allowed to take a camera into most swimming pools now, however much you want to capture your child first swimming. A few bad apples...
Re:A new age (Score:4, Insightful)
yet again regulation solves nothing
Think of the children!! (Score:2)
The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. Trademarking your camp name, and then using that to try to control speech sounds just wrong to me. If parents are really getting the wrong idea about a camp by reading what a 12 year old has to say about it on myspace, the problem is in the parents li
I can use wikipedia too. (Score:2)
"Cyber Bullying"? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:"Cyber Bullying"? (Score:3, Funny)
It should be noted that if that doesn't work, we can always spam their asses back into the stone age.
The BUCK stops with you, the parent... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The BUCK stops with you, the parent... (Score:2)
With a little luck, it might make a few people think twice and actually take some personal responsibility.
Why the snide tone? (Score:5, Interesting)
As any Slashdot nerd who's been to camp (or gym class, or any other instance where 8-to-18 year olds are thrown together) there is a lot of pranks, hazing and other forms of humiliation that goes on in these environments. I bet the camps are more worried that photos of kids who had the ol' hand-in-warm-water trick pulled on them by their bunk mates will circulate (and then the potential lawsuits from parents afterwards.)
Absolutely not. (Score:3, Insightful)
"Protecting civil rights" is a cliche that DOES apply. That's why this should be called for the bullshit that it is.
Re:Why the snide tone? (Score:2)
Right now I'm sure there's a lot of parents that would never suspect their perfect little terror would do such a thing. But I think that kind of thing will change when the first a million dollar lawsuit is upheld against a negligent parent whose kid posted a harassing vide
Re:Why the snide tone? (Score:2)
Right, so shouldn't the camps work to stop the hazing that occurs rather than blame myspace when people find out? People are being snide because the camps are only interested in covering their asses, not doing anything about the real problem.
-Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
Aaaahhh summer camp... (Score:4, Interesting)
We hear so much about camp sex stories... Alas, it was not the case for us.
We used to go to a private school who, during the summer, had a day camp, where we were supervised by the teachers.
Can you imagine? Not only spending the WHOLE GODDAMMED SUMMER with the same teachers we had during the school year (and, somehow, they had to magically turn into our friends and were supposed to have fun with them) but also doing this in the very same school building???
When I turned 12, we managed to convince our parents that we wanted to stay home, so she hired a sitter.
A sitter dumb enough to sit in front of TV all day long (cable was new 35 years ago), while we pushed the bed against the bedroom door while we had sex orgie (I'm not shitting you - this was the 70's - yes, I was organizing orgies when I was 12 and yes, there was sucking and fucking).
The teacher lasted about 5 weeks until, one day, my mother came home early and found the sitter sprawled in front of the TV watching a stupid soap, but none of us around.
My mother found out where we were when we came back from the swimming pool (a 15 block walk) one hour later. Needless to say, she was glad to save on the sitter (and we could have the orgies in the living room).
Two words (Score:2)
Re:Two words (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Two words (Score:2)
Jesus Christ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Jesus Christ... (Score:2)
Re:Aaaahhh summer camp... (Score:3, Funny)
It's truly fascinating... (Score:5, Interesting)
Adults have always treated children like crap, but there's never really been any concrete evidence of it because adults have played the strongarm card over everything the child is allowed to say or do. If you took a picture of an adult doing something embarrassing, the picture could be taken away. But now that the picture is a bundle of unfettered electrons stored on a web server that belongs to someone you DON'T have the right to bully and coerce, they can't do that anymore.
It might make being an adult somewhat more problematic, but I'm willing to bet it makes the children's lives a whole hell of a lot better.
The death of privacy is GOOD. The only people that care about it are the ones who shouldn't be doing what they're doing ANYWAY.
Re:It's truly fascinating... (Score:2)
Amen to that (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Amen to that (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Amen to that (Score:5, Insightful)
In doing so, I think perhaps I'm not the only guy, who as a kid, found that computers allowed us to socialize, learn new things, and do all of this in an open way that mainstream society might fear.
mod parent up! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's truly fascinating... (Score:2)
How odd... because I'm guessing more kids than not have, at some point, bitched and complained because they wanted their own room with a door they can close, and preferably lock, specifically so they can have *privacy*.
Re:It's truly fascinating... (Score:3, Interesting)
Quite. Now I want you to post videos of yourself masturbating and/or having sex.
(no i'm not gay
Re:It's truly fascinating... (Score:2)
Treating symptoms? (Score:5, Insightful)
If photographs of a camp and its attendees have managed to wind their way onto an adult website, I have no qualms with the camp in questions taking action to have the material removed, however, it seems the camp might want to devote more resources to educating attendees about safety. I also don't see any issue with confiscating digital cameras, even though many children who've gone to camp in the past were able to take photographs.
I certainly take issue with camps' attempts to censor negative opinion and activities which take place outside of the camp and are unrelated to the camp. The article makes it seem like these camps are asking both attendees and counselors to censor their outside activities so as not to make the camp "look bad."
As a former camp counselor... (Score:5, Interesting)
I am an Eagle Scout and after graduating from college last May I decided to serve as a counselor at my BSA camp in Florida as a water ski instructor (cush job, right?). It was the most fun I had ever had in my life. Gettin paid to drive a power boat around a lake.
They had a computer room setup for staff and adult leaders with a satellite downlink and phoneline for the uplink. The camp is very remote and no chance of DSL or cable. Because I work in the real world now and have a real job I won't get the chance to work there again this year although I want to soo badly.
At least using MySpace I can keep up with the people I met at camp. http://camplanoche.com/ [camplanoche.com] is the place.
Uh oh... (Score:2, Funny)
(Yes, that is the real Donkey Lips from "Salute Your Shorts".
Here's the REAL solution (Score:3, Interesting)
We'd end up with some sort of gestapo-like situation with CPS or some other agency breathing down everyone's neck, but this is what people are asking for! They want to blame the world and make a profit through lawsuits. But if people are the first line of blame for their childrens' behavior, there would be a LOT fewer complaints about what kids have available to them won't there? But this addresses all of the concerns from "dangerous video games" to "what they do on the internet." It might even have the added bonus of issues like chilhood obesity and health issues that result from negligence.
I hate to say it, but we need a law to make it happen.
Use Elgg instead (Score:2)
More http://elgg.net/ [elgg.net]
Uphill battle (Score:2, Interesting)
In other words... (Score:2)
Camps are FUN (Score:2, Insightful)
more likely (Score:2)
Operation "Suck All Fun out of Being a Kid" (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't it time to reign in the lawyers and the mollycoddlers?
Good god! Myth Destroyed! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the hell do these places exist? I mean, good lord, when I was a teenager, during the holidays, I worked, went to the movies and kept my self occupied, without the need of my parents spending money hand over fist to some over hyped establishment.
Geeze, I really wonder sometimes why parents have kids if all they do is boot their kids off to a camp each year, simply to avoid them.
teenager? (Score:2)
In the US, it's difficult to get a job before you are 15 due to labor laws.
It is also very uncommon to go to camp at age 15 or older.
I never went to camp, but my friends went to camp between the ages of 10 and 13.
Re:Good god! Myth Destroyed! (Score:2)
The problem? (Score:2, Insightful)
I Read TFA.... (Score:2)
How about we teach them something useful? (Score:2, Interesting)
Most kids are pretty smart. There will always be a group that is pretty stupid, but most understand that some people like to see others in pain or want to benefit from their misery. The easiest way I have ever found to keep my information safe is to simply be someone else when interacting online. I've used several aliases over the years and a google search on those names usually brings up a bunch of gibberish
It's not my fault (Score:2)
Put the blame where it belongs (Score:4, Insightful)
BUT WE FAIL TO >>BLAME THE BRATS
Our society has the idea that anyone under 18 is pure and innocent until something corrupts them and that is pure and simple HORSE CRAP.
Teens have been and always will be 1) sexual beings AND 2) immature. The combination of both is a recipe for trouble.
Modern society thinks that teen pregnancy, teen sex and teen crime is all some shocking, new phenemenon unique to our times. Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps the technologies have changed but the people using them have not.
People are essentially the same dumb animals that have made the same dumb mistakes for the past 5 millinia of recorded history. All signs show that they will continue to do so.
The model for Michangelo's [i]David[/i] was a teen prostitute that was one of Michangelo's personal favorites. What does this have to do with this subject?
It proves rather elegently that this teen drama crap has been going on a long time before MySpace ever reared its ugly head.
Blame the people, not the black box.
What's summer camp without fucking in the woods? (Score:4, Funny)
Now we're taking the sex out of summer camp?
God dam Bush Administration!
Let's solve the "Print Predator" problem first! (Score:3, Funny)
Which brings me to
Re:No pictures? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just look at the USSR, it could have been described as exactly that. Nepotism, bribes, kickbacks, major corruption, social programs that are just jobs for the incompetent, spying on your political foes... It wasn't a sleek, well oiled government, it was a government bursting at the seams under the weight of corruption.
I mean just the other day, there was a prison shootout, not between the guards and prisioners, but between federal agents tr
Re:Cyber-bullying (Score:2)
Re:Cyber-bullying (Score:2)
Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh noezz!! A scary intraweb predator is going to see a picture of girls in bikinis and track them all down and rape and kill them! Everyone panic!!! We need more laws and restrictions, quick!
Need I say more?
Yes, please do, because I don't know what the hell your point is.
Re:The camera ban might be a good idea. (Score:4, Insightful)
What we have here is a bunch of girls who took pictures of themselves and friends in the shower. All were wearing bikinis. In other words, I could get the same "thrill" by going to any public beach.
I suppose you have to say more. I'm a bit lost as to what is "bad" about this. It looks like all the people involved were willing participants.