Microsoft Unveils 'Vista Premium' Requirements 287
Graeme writes "Microsoft has finished what some are calling the true minimum requirements for Windows Vista: the finalized requirements for the 'Vista Premium' certification program. The program is used to influence OEM designs, and it gives an idea of what Microsoft thinks Vista really needs to run well, and what they think is in the horizon. The Ars report hits the highlights, and there are some surprises in there, such as a delayed requirement for HDCP. Ars suspects that the slow ramp-up is due to the pact to not use the Image Constraint Token."
FTFA (Score:5, Informative)
Effective now:
* HD Audio support that passes a "high-fidelity audio experience" test (exception: Business class systems have until June 1, 2007).
* Support for Direct3d 9 and DXGI feature sets (Direct3d 10 mandated by June 1, 2008).
* At least one digital output (e.g., DVI-D) for all add-in video adapters (not integrated video: that doesn't change until June 1, 2008).
* 100Mb Ethernet and/or and WiFi (802.11g must be supported; 802.11a can be supported only in addition to 802.11g).
* USB 2.0 ports throughout
* System resumes from ACPI S3 state ("suspend-to-ram") in 2 seconds (does not include user mode initialization, i.e., total "wake" time will be longer than 2 seconds)
Re:FTFA - USB??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't they mean USB 2.0 High-Speed ports? The USB 2.0 "full speed" scam should have never been allowed to exist in the first place.
Re:FTFA - USB??? (Score:2)
Re:FTFA - USB??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FTFA - USB??? Wikepedia (Score:4, Informative)
The Wikepedia article should be updated to point out clearly that the whole part of USB 2.0 full speed is a marketing scam. When USB 2.0 came out initially, theoretical maximum transfer rates jumped from 12Mbs to 480Mbs. The problem was that there were still a huge backlog of unsold systems with the old USB 1.1 ports. Of course, nobody wanted the older, slower standard, and everyone knew to insist on USB 2.0 in their new systems. The industry somehow managed to get the "standard" changed so that what was USB 1.1 could now be labeled as USB 2.0 Full Speed. The new standard became USB 2.0 High Speed. Of course, most computers were labeled simply as USB 2.0 regardless of which they had, which was a huge scam on the buyers. Why there aren't people in jail over this still infuriates me.
Re:FTFA (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FTFA (Score:2)
Re:FTFA (Score:2, Funny)
Re:FTFA (Score:2)
Actual vista premium requirements (Score:5, Funny)
That's how we ended up with SQL Server; and no doubt that's how we'll end up with Vista, regardless of any technical merits or issues.
Re:Actual vista premium requirements (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Actual vista premium requirements (Score:2)
Oh, wait, I work at Microsoft.
Re:Actual vista premium requirements (Score:5, Insightful)
Our Microsoft sales rep takes our CFO out to a very nice lunch/dinner/trip
It might also depend on how much stock he has in your company. Say you have to upgrade some 5000 portables at 3 grand a pop. Got $15 million plus, licensing extra for PCs?
The best part of it is Linux gets it's best growth when this happens. People take their old PCs and load Linux on it to find it is stable and runs well. The only thing that will turn them off is that the toys and games they are used to are not there. Astute business people will ask why does an order entry clerk need DVI or high definition audio and the fancy options? Maybe some will ask, how does Vista justify the cost? Many will realize Linux is going to look good in business giving more life to older systems. Others will stay on XP. Each subsequent version of Windows (server or workstation) is taking longer, and longer to dominate showing the market is getting wiser.
It's horrifying (Score:3, Insightful)
What on earth is it doing using up a Gig of Ram, a 1GHz processor, goodness knows how much video RAM? A 3D game - for sure needs that kind of processing power, but an operating system for goodness sake? Whatever happened to writing efficient, non-bloated, elegant code? What's wrong with writing something that doesn't use more and more and more memory? Wh
In common layman's terms (Score:5, Funny)
Arms
Legs
Re:In common layman's terms (Score:4, Funny)
Arms
Legs
I think you forgot...
Soul
Re:In common layman's terms (Score:2)
Child...First Born
one more (Score:2)
Don't forget the mind you have to lose first.
Hidden Requirement... (Score:4, Funny)
You can see where they're going (Score:5, Interesting)
I certainly forsee computer sales in the first quarter of 2007, when the vendors try to get rid of their soon-to-be not-compatible hardware.
It's also noteworthy that Vista requires OEMs to have some kind of networking ability. While this is a given by today's standards, I find it very curious that an operating system REQUIRES me to have it.
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
Do you really find that curious? Big brother worries aside, how many computers these days don't make use of networking? When all is said and done, there's a lot of other things that I find more curious about what Microsoft absolutely requires in their operating system.
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
I mean, I can see that yes, MS can set the standard for what they want to see for a "true" Vista PC. Personally, I'd up the requirements for CPU and Ram to see it flow instead of crawl. So why do they require good video and audio output?
Well, like I said. Media PCs is what Vista seems to be about.
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
I wonder if hardware costs of running Vista will exceed the Mac tax...
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
The reason for this is simple once you look at the big picture.
The low "standard" requirements show that the OS will run on older computers, including Coppermine PIIIs and Socket A Athlons. This encourages people with computers that are a few years old to upgrade.
The la
The Operating System doesn't require it at all... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2, Funny)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because it requires you to have the hardware doesn't inclusively mean you can't firewall connections to *.microsoft.com:*
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:5, Informative)
The Vista Premium cert ensures that nobody will get complaints like: "Whaddya mean, my brand new PC can't run $ESOTERIC_VISTA_FEATURE_XYZ?!" People may be misled by the submitter's choice of link text. **cough**zonkdoyourjob**cough**
The Vista Premium OEM certification requirements are not the "true minimum requirements for Windows Vista".
The baseline requirements [microsoft.com] are an 800MHz CPU, 512MB memory, and a DirectX 9-capable video processor. (I think the DX9 requirement is more for driver compliance than hardware features, since GPUs that can't handle Aero Glass will fall back on Aero Basic, and the old Windows 2000 style is still available.) A network connection is not required, and it would be safe to presume that activation by phone will still be available. (And, given the Windows Genuine Advantage mess, that might actually be preferrable to WGA phoning it in for you.)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DRM and Dialup (Score:2)
"June 1, 2007, or later:
* A Green Driver Quality Rating for all drivers.
* "Protected Video Path" (PVP) [wikipedia.org] support, including HDCP.
"
The PVP is going to be as destructive as the HDTV initiative - it will render millions of computer monitors obsolete when there is nothing improved in the newer models. It's a
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
Well, Vista Beta 2 works perfectly well with it. Good job really, as I've been utterly unable to get my damn wireless connection working...
Besides, the OS does not require a network connection. Microsoft require it of their "Vista Premium" OEM partners, as (to them) networking is at the core of a modern PC's
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:3, Interesting)
That caught my eye too. Not just that it requires networking, but it has to be semi-fast networking. But then I thought it through: this isn't a requirement for Vista as such, this is a requirement for "full-featured" Vista. Presumably Vista supports streaming media over your LAN, so you can watch a movie o
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You can see where they're going (Score:2)
Especially since i haven't seen it written anywhere that Office 2007 would be restricted to Vista.
Why, oh why ... (Score:5, Insightful)
They missed (Score:2, Insightful)
Haven't we been here before? (Score:5, Insightful)
We've been here before and I remember a couple of distinctive impacts of upgrading:
1. My desktop was a lot more stable.
2. The computer OS and games actually ran a little faster.
3. Need I remind everyone who's feeding us this info on Vista? The MEDIA. Nuff said.
We've all been there, (many times now MS-DOS,win3.1/NT4-Win95/2000/XP), done that. Bring on VISTA baby!
4. Your wallet was empty (n/t) (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:2, Interesting)
Honestly, no, I don't remember. I went from Apple ]['s and CP/m to Ultrix and CTSS (on a Cray). Then to SunOS and some NeXT computers when I went back to college. That was followed into a very brief experience with a company running a mixed Win95/Win98/WinNT/Win-ME environment that was the most absurd virus hell I've ever seen and back to a SunOS/Solaris/Apple shop which migrated to a Linux/Apple shop.
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not me. (Score:4, Insightful)
Um.... I went from Windows 98 to Win2000. Stability of NT with Game compatibility of win98. (Just without all the bluescreens)
Everyone who knew anything about computers should have known to put Windows 2000 pro on their computer when it came out and not WinME or Win98.
WinXP got domniance because it was just put on new computers that came out and you couldn't get Win2000 anymore.
However XP had some major glaring flaws (mydoom anyone?) and Win2000 worked just fine for anything I needed included games. Of course these days I use XP because it came with the system and there wasn't any point downgrading because since it was from a vendor all the drivers came with the box and were Winxp certified. (some of the newer hardware gives me grief in finding drivers for my old boxes)
So... I might get vista some day if it comes with a computer, but I seriously doubt it will be any better than Winxp or 2k as far as mind blowing features. It will of course get eventually better because MS will drop support for 2k and XP, but I don't see any rush to upgrade until SP1 or 2.
Re:Not me. (Score:2)
Nowadays, quite a lot of stuff actually requires Windows XP though (often from microsoft, and that includes games, but not always). It's always slightly frustrating to see that you can't install a game just because you were artificially blocked out (and don't tell me it's not artificial)
Re:Not me. (Score:2)
Who has been blocked? The games may say "requires XP," but I have yet to see one actually block installation on 2000.
Two examples:
Battlefield 2. Says on the box: requires Windows XP. Does it work on Windows 2000? Hell yes, just reminds you that the game is only supported on XP before installation.
Fable: The Lost Chapters. Says on the box: requires Windows XP. Says on the box: requires Windows XP. Does it work on Windows 2000? Hell yes, doen't even bug you about it.
What game are you using tha
VISTA baby ? A new VISTA edition ? (Score:2, Funny)
Ok, that was a bad joke.
The OS is five years old (Score:4, Interesting)
For the past five years, most of the MS crowd here have been using XP (except for those who have their feet firmly rooted in the 2k GUI). That's really amazing when pausing to think about it. Were we still using 3.1 when 98 was released? No.
In the entire time I've used XP on my personal computers, I've found it to be a stable and reliable OS, especially for that long of a timeframe. I don't think it will be too different with Vista.
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:2)
1. My desktop was a lot less stable.
2. The computer OS and games actually ran a lot slower.
3. Need I remind everyone who's feeding us this info on Vista? The CRASHES. Nuff said.
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:2)
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:5, Interesting)
People are not pissed because of a few bugs - people are pissed because the whole fucking thing is fundamentally flawed. You don't fix a crappy permission system in the time between beta and release. No one does. You don't fix the complete lack of drivers between beta and release. Ever see BSD or Linux triple the number of drivers in the time between beta and release? No. You never did.
Want to know why? Because if you have a fundamental problem in beta, it doesn't get fixed by release. As funny as it sounds, MS are not going to be making any substantial improvements to the number of drivers between now and release. The Hardware companies don't want to write them, and Microsoft don't have the documentation available.
Re:Haven't we been here before? (Score:2)
Business needs this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Business needs this? (Score:3, Insightful)
But it isn't much of a reason to upgrade. Hell, I doubt that all that many businesses plan to upgrade any time in the near future. Ever since XP came out, hardware has been "fast enough" for ALL of the typical business software that most companies run. Hell, even some of the late "pre-XP" Windows 2000 machines are
Re:Business needs this? (Score:2)
Aero feature (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Aero feature (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Aero feature (Score:5, Insightful)
when you're not playing, what else is there for the GPU to do?
Put itself in a low-energy 2D mode and consume less power? That would be useful!
Re:Aero feature (Score:2)
From playing around with XGL, I think that there is some advantage to a 3d-accelerated UI (aside from the "ooh, pretty" advantage), though the insane requirements for Vista reduce the advantage (I mean, yeah, its nice to offload some CPU work to the GPU, especially work that mostly gets done when you aren't already running GPU inten
Re:Aero feature (Score:2)
Windows Aero is an environment with an additional level of visual sophistication, one that is even more responsive and manageable, providing a further level of clarity and confidence to Windows users. The visual sophistication of Windows Vista helps streamline your computing experience by refining common window elements so you can bett
"plenty"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well.. (Score:3, Funny)
Yes.
Re:"plenty"? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"what some are calling "... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"what some are calling "... (Score:2)
Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:5, Interesting)
The public Beta is out. Anybody actually TRIED running this AND applications on the barebones spec of 800MHz and 512MB of RAM as well as the 1GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM?
By apps, I mean the current version of Microsoft Office with Word and Excel open at the same time, and the IE browser open, and maybe Messenger, and the usual tray full of crap most people run.
I want to hear a REAL-WORLD test from the people using the public Beta on REAL machines.
I find it hard to believe that everybody INCLUDING MICROSOFT was talking about 3GHz machines and 1GB of RAM at a minimum last year, and now suddenly we're down to 800MHz CPUs?
What's wrong with this picture? Don't blame it on the media because Microsoft ITSELF was talking those specs last year.
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been running beta 2 on an Athlon 1.2Ghz / 512MB / Radeon 9800 128MB setup. I would consider this pretty much bare bones.
How does it run? Well, considering it uses about 800 MB of ram just sitting there, suprisingly well. This memory usage is almost certainly due to the fact it's a beta. I remember beta 2 of XP used like 600 MB of ram just sitting there.
But given the fact that on XP if you're using that much more ram than you have you'd be swapping like crazy, Vista runs suprisingly smoothly. I rarely notice UI lag, even when opening up new applications. In fact, the UI lag on Vista beta 2 is better than on my primary desktop running XP. (My primary desktop has 2 GB of ram, and a 3.8 Ghz P4.)
The Vista search features are very fast as well.
Of course, the iffy specs of my test machine cause some things to be painfully slow. Opening an explorer folder with hundreds of videos in it will takes a very long time to render all the previews. (The folder itself, however, comes up almost instantly.)
Assuming they cut the memory requirements by 50% post beta (which is close to what we saw with XP), Vista would run just fine for "normal" use on that old Athlon. No games, probably no coding, etc.
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:2)
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:2)
So with those "barbones" specs (my desktop is very similar) and Vista, you'd get a glorified Internet browsing and email machine? It pains me a little that a fairly decent computer couldn't even be a development machine under this new OS, yet it does games and .NET development just fine under XP.
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:2)
The point of my post was to show that Vista appears to run just about as well as XP on old machines despite all the new eye candy and nifty features.
Leave it to Slashdotters to find fault in anything and everything Microsoft.
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:2)
Haven't installed the beta because I was scarred by that experience.
Hopefully this will stop OEMs from selling machines with 128mb of ram.
Re:Basic Question No One Has Asked (Score:2)
I think it might be that Microsoft finalized the farm-to-GPU capabilities on all the special effects.
1GB of ram for semi-transparent windows? (Score:3, Interesting)
Cue someone pointing to that wikipeida entry which shows all those great features coming with Vista....
Re:1GB of ram for semi-transparent windows? (Score:2)
No HDCP because... (Score:2)
I really suspect this has more to do with HDCP not being a "requirement" then the fact that the studios have vowed, for now, to not force the use of HDCP supported outputs for full resolution viewing.
hmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Strict (Score:2)
Re:Vista certification logo stickers are available (Score:2)
It just occured to me... (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok. In other words, only machines that do NOT have that sticker could at least in theory have this piece of DRM-crap NOT installed.
Thanks for the warning label. I shall heed it.
Bring it on! (Score:3, Insightful)
Installable on my Intel Mac? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Installable on my Intel Mac? (Score:2)
These requirements are for the "Vista Premium" experience. Requirements for Vista to run (and get the "Vista Basic" look and whatnot--from what I can tell from using Beta 2 it's like Aero without the transparency, shadows, and glowy-ness) are slightly lower, and I'm sure most Intel Macs will be able to handle that, at least.
Requirements don't matter to me . . . (Score:2)
Another quality Microsoft product!
If nothing else... (Score:2)
Intel integrated video and older chipsets (Score:2)
Sounds like a game console (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead of making a console system into a PC, Microsoft seems to want to turn the PC into a console. They are quite crafty. If you can't beat the PC market with a console, you just sabatoge the PC market.
Terminator edition available: (Score:2)
Teh REAL requirements: (Score:2)
There you go. Should be able to run Office with that baseline configuration,
What HDCP is about (Score:3, Interesting)
For those who (like me) did not know what HDCP is: it stands for "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection", and its purpose is to prevent the PC's owner from using the PC to copy certain media. Fuller and more precise information can be found here [wikipedia.org]. It's basically a component that you pay for, that reduces the capability of your computer. I wonder which consumers are demanding something like that ...
What is this and why should I care? (Score:2)
I thought it was just a guide to things useful to run Vista well, but what's the deal with HDMI "not being required until later this year". Required for what exactly? To get a free Microsoft sticker to put on your PC saying "This computer meets the Vista Premium requirements"? To become a personal friend with Steve Ballmer? How can a requirement suddenly change for the exact same operating system?
If you have HDMI support before it's required for Premium, won't it be as u
Re:Why don't they give it the name it really deser (Score:2, Funny)
Oh yeah zealotry... (Score:2)
We zealots actually just feel that they should have more choice. If you can't find a consumer friendly Linux distro, you aren't looking very hard. If you can find a retailer who sells computers that aren't pre-loaded with Windows, then you are looking very hard
Re:Oh yeah zealotry... (Score:2)
How fucking hard is it to go to pricewatch.com and click on PCs - No OS?
Re:You make your bed, you sleep in it... (Score:2, Interesting)
. .
If you wish to play the blame game your more appropriate target would be Apple for not adopting an open architecture, creating OEM level competition in hardware.
KFG
Re:Requirements (Score:2)
Uh, you'd better read up on what "PVP" and "DVI-D" actually mean. Remember: DRM manages rights the same way prison manages freedom.
Re:Requirements (Score:2)
My parents ran Win98 on an old Gateway with a 386 processor for a number of years. I think it was something like 66MHz. Care to try running Win2K, or Vista on that?
Re:Requirements (Score:2)
Windows 2000 installs without issues on a P133 and a 2Gb hard drive as long as you have 256Mb of ram. In fact, RAM is probably the most limiting factor, I've run W2k on 128Mb of RAM but it's a hellish pain and getting rid of every single service you don't actively need is highly required or you'll drop to swap every time you open anything above Notepad and your computer will grind to a halt.
You could probably manage to run it on 64Mb, but the OS itself would be partially loaded in the swap, and that wouldn
Re:Minimum Requirements (Score:2, Interesting)
A $100 graphics card would quite literally beat your average Cray from 20 years ago! A $500 graphics card blows the doors off one of those old Crays.
I was just joking to my girlfriend that my laptop (Pentium M, 1.5GB RAM, 60GB hard drive) has the compute power and storage capacity of a whole sup
Re:HDCP? (Score:2)
Re:Windows ME all over again (Score:2, Insightful)
Why do I get the feeling that Vista is nothing more than Windows Millinium Edition all over again?
Because you get your news and opinion from Slashdot.