PlayStation 2 Outselling Xbox 360 in U.S. 98
Aviran Mordo writes to mention an Ars Technica article about the sales struggle between the PS2 and Xbox 360. Since the launch, the PS2 has managed to maintain the lead. April was the first month Microsoft's new console eeked out Sony's old one, possibly as a result of the ramp-up in production. From the article: "I should note that we caution against putting too much weight on these sales estimates, especially in a comparative sense. The PS2 and the Xbox 360 are at opposite ends of their 'console lifecycles,' and the two are priced quite far apart as well (e.g., $129 vs. $299, PS2, Xbox 360 Core respectively). We are impressed, however, by the PS2's continually strong sales, even as many gamers turn their eyes towards the next-generation. These sales will help keep Sony strong and stable, even in the face of a disappointing PlayStation 3 launch, should fate take that turn." These sales may be bolstered as the year moves on by the releases of God of War 2, Final Fantasy XII, and Okami, all of which are for the PS2.
Not a comparison at all. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
As I said in my earlier post, I'll be buying the 360 as soon as some games that I want to play come out for it. The pric
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:3, Interesting)
So far, the games that have been announced for the PS3, none fulfill that criteria.
Now, if Insomnia was to release a new R&C game for the PS3, I'd buy one in a heartbeat...
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:1)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
One thing worth noting is that cheaper price doesn't guarantee more sales. Those same charts which compare the PS2 to the XBox360 also show that in the US, seven PS2s are selling for every NGC or XBox (the old one) sold. That's pretty impressive seeing as the PS2 is way past its sell-by date and probably the least capable of any console. Interestingly
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
We all know in the short term that the units shipped is a great way to lie about a launch success. Expect to see Sony & Nintendo playing verbal gymnastics during their launches to bolster their sales figures.
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:1)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Despite that, the PSP is starting to get some great titles so I think its over the hump. The strong sal
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:2)
Re:Not a comparison at all. (Score:1)
Cop out (Score:2)
There is no Xbox360 shortage (Score:2)
Microsoft did a good job of manufacturing an artificial shortage [slashdot.org] just after the release date, but now the truth is out...
[And to prove I'm not a Sony fanboy: Costco also had a ton of PSPs, but no Nintendo DS or DS Lite systems.]
Re:There is no Xbox360 shortage (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:There is no Xbox360 shortage (Score:5, Insightful)
They finally solved the supply issue, and sales peaked, and went back down.
But I don't think this is an Xbox 360 VS PS2 issue, but more indicative of a high priced next-gen console VS low cost current gen console; the PS3 will probably have similar issues as its price is even higher. The Wii stands to compete well in this range, however.
Re:There is no Xbox360 shortage (Score:2)
How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:4, Insightful)
A boatload of highly desirable PS3 excluisives to popular PS2 franchises would possibly seal the deal. But most of the upcoming sequels, like Gran Turismo HD, seem more like HD versions of the same game. That won't sell any consoles to the non-HD consumers, which are still the majority, even in the early adopter bracket.
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:2)
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:1)
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:2)
I'm in Ireland, and people are being quite silly here with money at the moment. HDTVs, even rubbish ones without HDCP, or bad picture quality (low LCD response time), or rubbish plasma screens (dimming by half every XX months), are sell
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:2)
Which couldn't have come at a better time, at least for SONY, BluRay, and HDTV as well. Those precious big screens will need to be filled with appropriate content as soon as the games are over (sic). Which is why EA Sport
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:4, Interesting)
While I'm sure there are legal issues with ripping DVD, BD content, I don't see them as being that much different than ripping music. If I own a DVD, why can't I rip it? Naturally it could encrypt the movie so it plays nowhere else. If Sony were smart, they'd offer this feature and ensure the PS3 also featured an online store where you could buy more content for reasonable prices. A reasonable price would be a timelimited movie for the same price as a rental, e.g. $6.
This is all hypothetical of course. In the past Sony would sell a device that hacked off their customer's hands off if their media divisions told them to. Here's hoping that a clue finally sinks in after years of mistakes. Aside from the UMD, the PSP actually offers a pretty good example of how you can make a cool multimedia device without crippling it to death in the process. UMDs were done to death by pure greed, but movie ripping via a memory stick is actually quite alright.
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:1)
100% backwards compatibility... (Score:2)
I think my wife said it best:
Me: So, the XBOX 360 won't let you play your older Xbox games unless they are specifically supported.
Her: That's gay. Why would I want to have to buy the same games again with 360 tacked on?
Me: I dunno, but the playstation 3 will be 100% backwards compatible.
Her: It better be or I'll just buy another PS2.
Her game library is somewhere around 40-50 games on the PS2 not including her PS1 games.
PS1 games only recently were pushed off the shelves at Gamesto
Re:100% backwards compatibility... (Score:1)
Re:100% backwards compatibility... (Score:2)
Re:100% backwards compatibility... (Score:2)
It's also not like she isn't educated enough to understand the original etymology either and having been on the recieving end of her explanations of the pejorative usage (sometimes also spelled ghey) I'd say she's a far sight removed from ignorant.
If it helps you any, think of it as equivalent to Michael Jackson's bad. If you feel it is de
Re:How will Sony use this to sell the PS3? (Score:2, Insightful)
Expect to see this headline: PlayStation 2 Outselling PlayStation 3
All about the price (Score:4, Interesting)
Which means MS was maybe doomed to start with? (Score:3, Interesting)
The longevity of Sony's console sales does really point out the mountain MS was trying to climb, doesn't it?
You say the original XBox market for new games disappeared, and it's true -- there's almost nothing new coming. Meanwhile Sony can rely on plenty of third party legs for the PS2; even if the PS3 outright crashes, there's still some cushion there.
Anyone who's scoffed at the idea of "market share" or said it was overrated should think about how much critical mass MS would have needed here. Even a fi
Re:All about the price (Score:2)
Re:Not surprising, PS2s break easily (Score:2)
Anecdotely, I bought my 1st gen ps2 refurb 3.5 years ago, and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. Moreover, I'm not aware of any friends with PS2s that had any problems (or at least those that managed to get a 2nd gen ps2 or later). In contrast, my roommate's Xbox is just about dead (it doesn't even boot most of the time).
Re:Not surprising, PS2s break easily (Score:2)
Re:Not surprising, PS2s break easily (Score:2)
Good thing by the way, that Xbox 360 is different. Why, it's smoking all by itself... (ducks)
Re:Not surprising, PS2s break easily (Score:2)
Here we go again... (Score:2, Insightful)
This same conversation has been going on at Ars (and to a slightly lesser degree, here at /.) for months now. Th
Re:Here we go again... (Score:1)
Really? Compared to the cost of a good mountain bike, or the cost
Re:Here we go again... (Score:2)
Even "home team" loyalty is questionable when few, if any,
Re:Here we go again... (Score:2)
Speaking as an admitted Nintendo fanboy, I cheer them on because I genuinely think they do good stuff.
All of the consoles are expensive
Are they? My Gamecube with a free game was $150, my "used" (returned by someone after buying it the day before) PS2 was $110. Unless i'm buying a rarity or a new release that I absolutely must have imme
skip the $ investment in games (Score:1)
Re:Here we go again... (Score:1)
Do me a favour and list those 'lots of good games' for Xbox360. Seriously. Because my 360 just shit itself after 11 days (random freezing issue), and while I'll return it to EB to get a replacement and give them another two strikes before simply demanding a refund, I'm not sure why I'm bothering.
I've got three racing games, one of which I have a virtually identical version of on PSP (Ridge Racer), and one on Xbox1 (Burnout Reven
Is this a good thing for Sony? (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, on the other hand, this probably just people replacing broken PS2s. Which such a huge userbase, you'll see substantial turn-around for replacement systems. I know, myself that I need to purchase a new PS2 because my original one died (and I don't want to give up my game library).
Oh. And I have no plans on purchasing a PS3. Too expensive, and I'm having serious doubts that it's going to be the leader of the next generation. (And if it's not the leader, it won't get the 3rd party games. And the 3rd party games are the only reason to have a PlayStation)
Re:Is this a good thing for Sony? (Score:1)
There are a ton of factors that might be contributing to the still-strong PS2 sales. Between price, library, PS3 cost, Xbox 360 supply, and few killer next-gen apps, this seems like something MS needs to keep an eye
Let's not forget (Score:1)
Good point. (Score:2)
Re:Let's not forget (Score:1)
Age of Console has something to do with it. (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, game play seems to be more static. I haven't seen proof that Xbox 360 games are any better 'games', just better looking.
So, since the game play is a wash, and PS2 games are the best-looking they've ever been, it boils down to extra money for the promise of future performance.
Re:Age of Console has something to do with it. (Score:1)
Re:Age of Console has something to do with it. (Score:2)
Even without old ones dying, many people are buying a second one to get the new, smaller unit.
Maybe Sony should upgrade the PS2 (Score:2)
That might cannibalize the PS3, but then again, if the PS3 is priced to appeal only to hardcore gamers (or people looking for a cheap blu-ray player), it might make sense to have an entry out there that is more competitive with the Xbox 360 and the Wii. A PS2 with a faster processor, more memory and disk might fil
Those aren't all new sales (Score:2, Insightful)
Not terribly surprising (Score:1, Insightful)
Oddly enough, sales of the 360 might be better if the PS3 was out. As it is, it's a situation where the 360 is nice, but is it really worth almost 3 times as much as a PS2? However, if the PS3 was out, the comparison would be, the PS3 is nice, but is it
Re:Not terribly surprising (Score:1)
Hey. Don't blame Microsoft for the fact that Oblivion didn't properly implement some sort of ModIsBoobies switch. I mean, before it had to be re-rated, Oblivion pretty much was the 360 killer app.
Re:Not terribly surprising (Score:1)
Sony consoles = longer life span (Score:2)
The PS2 lasted many years and due to "interesting" achitecture games shipped now appear better than those released early. The lifespan of the ps2 was 2 years longer than xbox and 1 year longer than gamecube (before replacement with newer model.) Sony will probably contine selling ps2s for another couple years. Xbox 1 is a dead end, because most of the games aren't really backward compatible with the 360, and many that a
Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:3, Interesting)
Console cycles are won and lost on two fundamental pillars:
1) Manufacturing technology
2) Exclusive IP
Neither of those two all important areas have improved one bit for Microsoft with the 360. Microsoft has no ability to manufacture their own hardware and no ability to process shrink their hardware to reduce costs over time. Due to the billions they burned through on the first Xbox project the Xbox 360 team is being kept on a tight leash. The Microsoft of the late 90s is no more and the willingness to throw billions at projects is long gone for anything outside of search or their core OS/app markets. So the Xbox team was forced to kill off the first Xbox early and rush very flakey 360 hardware out the door leading to the staggering number of defective 360s you are hearing about even seven months after the console hit the store shelves. There are numerous people who are already on their fifth 360!
As to the second area, Microsoft has failed to land any new exclusive IP that they didn't have for the first Xbox. People buy consoles to play exclusive titles. That has always been the case and that will always be the case as long as the console market exists. There is nothing for anyone who didn't buy the first Xbox to go out and spend 400+ bucks on the new Xbox. Which is exactly what you hear from people who talk about why they have no plans on buying a 360. Nothing the system has interests them.
The first Xbox sold around 22 million or so. The userbase was made up of:
1) Dreamcast refugees
2) PC gamers
3) Microsoft fans
Microsoft appears to have mostly lost the PC gamers segment due to the weak 360 hardware. With the first Xbox PC gamers could buy an Xbox instead of a new video card and have a gaming system that was more powerful than any PC for a year or so. That wasn't the case with the 360. The 360 was already graphically behind PCs before it even hit store shelves. PC gamers are going back to their PCs and buying new video cards and forgoing picking up 360s this time around.
Plus you have the hardware defect nightmare turning the rest of Microsoft's core target demographic off and sitting on the sidelines until there is some indication that the problems have been solved. So you are basically looking at some fairly large percentage of the existing 22 million or so Xbox owners abandoning the platform. Which pretty much tracks the poor rate the 360 has been selling. Right now the 360 is selling at somewhere between half to two-thirds the rate of the first Xbox.
These latest sales figures for Microsoft have to be gut check time for the 360 team. The current sales rate of the 360 is putting it in sub-Dreamcast installed base range for the console. Something dramatic has to happen soon. The most obvious is some huge price cut to get the existing Xbox fanbase to overcome their hesitations to buy the 360.
However, with both Sony and Nintendo coming out with free online services, Microsoft is looking at a situation where they are going to be forced to match and drop the 50 dollar a year charge for playing games online. If Microsoft has to do a massive price cut on the system and drop the online play charge they are almost certainly looking at another multi-billion dollar loss for the Xbox project.
With the continuing drop in Microsoft's stock over the past five years and the struggle they have been having to meet street projections each quarter over the past year, one has to wonder how much of a stomach Redmond has to soldier on with a console that is looking more and more like another gigantic source of red ink.
Re:Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:2, Insightful)
MS may not have landed much
Re:Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:1)
Compare what is on the table/in the stores now. At this moment. Not in the future. Forget about vapourware like the ps3 or future xbox360 releases. You cannot buy them. They are not in the stores.
The current battle takes place between the ps2 with a huge collection of (cheap, platinum edition) games versus the much more (2.5x more) expensive xbox360 with a limited catalogue of (expensive) games.
The numbers say that customers prefer the ps2 by a reasonable mar
Re:Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:1)
The polls clocked in, both, at ~15%.
(IGNs had 700 or so participants, Loading's about 200)
Re:Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:1)
The problem with these polls is that somebody who has gotten a defective box is much more likely to "complain" about it via the poll than somebody who has not. The other problem would be people who complain their 360 is defective when in reality it could be a buggy game or, notoriously, lockups that occur in Live play.
In related news, I just bought a DS Lite today, and Brain Age locked up at one point. Not a great initial experience to have, but I won't draw too many conclusions from it.
Re:Hard Cap On Xbox 360 Userbase (Score:1)
15% with a large uncertainty, in two separate polls, is still a statistical problem when Microsoft claims they're really below 3%.
It's the games.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why'd you buy a DVD player? The movies on DVD with their superior audio/video quality and that the movies YOU wanted to watch were available in this format. Otherwise we'd have stayed with VHS.
Why do you choose an operating system? The applications. If my customers send me msword docs all day long, i should be running windows as I'm in the best position to have 100% compatibility with their documents. Windows is more expensive to purchase than linux, but if I cannot run Outlook/excel/word/whatever then the cost of windows is a necessary and mandatory cost.
Why is PS2 sales still high? It's not the cost of the game machine, but that there are HUNDREDS of games available for it. With a large variety in the type of games available, any new consumer is more likely to find a game they want to play on the PS2 than on the xbox360 which still has only a few games.
If PS3 is backwards compatible with the PS2, it will be a slam dunk as people can still play their old games, if PS3 is not backwards compatible it will suffer from the same problems as the xbox360
Not only is it the games, it's anticipation (Score:1)
But, I'm still waiting for the Wii, which I'll be buying, so I would probably buy used games at EBX for any PS2, now that the price is so low.
Even if Sony did badly at E3, I don't sense anyone deciding to buy a 360 because of it - most either decided to get a Wii, or might get a PS3 if they drop the DRM, the price, and the rootkits.
Re:It's the games.... (Score:1)
Re:It's the games.... (Score:1)
Why would I buy a $700 system that plays my old games when I can just keep using my PS2?
PS3 is ahead of its time, pure and simple. It is future proofed (assuming developer interest is still there when people get around to wanting higher-def systems in four years) at the cost of price and dev time, and only time will tell whether or not consumers will go to that dance.
It is anything but a slam du
Re:It's the games.... (Score:2)
Wrong. First comes availability of the content. Quality differs between contents.
Why'd you buy a DVD player? The movies on DVD with their superior audio/video quality and that the movies YOU wanted to watch were available in this format. Otherwise we'd have stayed with VHS
BS. That's rather because you could access and operate the media faster (no rewind to do for example), because different language are available (only one on a VHS)
Hardcore Dreamcast And Xbox Fans (Score:1, Interesting)
The latest worldwide sales figures for the 360 put it at right around two million sold(not shipped!) after seven months. After five years in the console market Microso
The PS2 price just dropped to $129. (Score:3, Interesting)
overheating 360's, prices and console revisions. (Score:2)
Spot evidence (Score:1)