Tom's Overly Detailed Vista Review 283
prostoalex writes "The weekend is here, and several software sites have published extensive reviews of Windows Vista for your reading enjoyment. Tom's Hardware is running a 500 hour Windows Vista review that spreads out 40 pages." From the article: "This new operating system is huge: it has more than 37,800 files, taking up a total of 10 GB. Part of this size stems from the fact that the current Beta is for the so-called "Ultimate Edition", which contains all available components, including complete versions of both Tablet PC and Media Center capabilities. In addition, many applications have been compiled in debug mode, so some space savings should occur for final versions once that debug switch is turned off. For our Windows Vista preview, we used Build 5381."
I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Informative)
Let me save you some time, this is a dupe.
As a "subscriber", I get the preview of articles with the blurb: See any serious problems with this story? Email our on-duty editor. at the bottom. This gives opportunity to correct errors (doesn't happen much) and more importantly help stem the tide of dupes. I replied, told them "DUPE, BIG TIME", but alas. (It's a dupe of Tom's Hardware Looks at Microsoft Vista Beta [slashdot.org].)
So, since it's a dupe, and I already posted to that story, feel free to read my post [slashdot.org] again.
(I don't mind the occasional dupe, I wonder why a mechanism to prevent them is offered if it isn't used. Sigh.)
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Interesting)
Then, allow subscribers to set a DUPE filter limit. Anything over that limit is not displayed on the page.
(Also, I've always wanted to use this in a post.)
3. ???????
4. PROFIT!!
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:2)
At least that's what I would guess, and it seems
Re:Subscribers can be trolls too (Score:5, Interesting)
NOT a dupe (Score:3, Interesting)
This one is the revised version - no unnecessary pull for Ubuntu 6.06
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:5, Funny)
It's Slashdot: News for Nerds, not Slashdot: News for Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (well, most of the time anyway).
On a related note, I've got video and pictures to *prove* that UFOs are responsible for 9/11, but all my stories get rejected! Slashdot is run by censoring fascists!
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:2)
I don't think you're ready for the truth...
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:2)
Re:I TOLD them it was a dupe! (Score:3, Insightful)
Too many pages (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too many pages (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too many pages (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too many pages (Score:4, Funny)
How long you can expect it to take to click through it.
KFG
Secret TH Printer Friendly Layout (Score:5, Informative)
Someone in a previous Tom's Hardware thread pointed out [slashdot.org] that adding "print.html" to the end of any TH article will magically give you a ONE Page article.
Thank you fief (12961). It looks like you've learned a thing or two since getting that low UID .
There's nothing to read (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too many pages (Score:5, Informative)
It took five years for This ? I imagine that there is more, but I don't know what. I've probably trialized some genuine improvements. But on the whole, Vista seems pretty underwhelming, and in any case, my fondest hope is that I can stick with Windows 9 until either Linux really works well, or Microsoft rethinks its approach to OSes and delivers up somthing that does less and does it better.
The 3rd Prostoalex Submission Today (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The 3rd Prostoalex Submission Today (Score:2)
By spanning articles over multitudes of pages, you can display more ads, and generate more ad related traffic. That's the only reason most news sites (I hate it too) make things span 3-4 pages for no good reason.
Re:The 3rd Prostoalex Submission Today (Score:3, Funny)
Hah!
That would be an oxymoron!
*ducks*
Re:The 3rd Prostoalex Submission Today (Score:3, Informative)
Waste of Space (Score:4, Funny)
All I have to say is http://www.nliteos.com/ [nliteos.com] (nlite Windows software) to the rescue.
Well that pretty much goes for the whole website (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, Tom's Hardware could crank out 40 worthless pages reviewing a fucking toothpick these days. I eludes me why anyone continues to try and read that shit. The thing hasn't been worth looking at in over 5 years.
Dupe with print-view link (Score:5, Informative)
You can read the original thread here [slashdot.org]
And if you don't like clicking through 40 pages, there's a print view here [tomshardware.com]
10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
XP is stable (I have no idea of vista is), the only thing that I think really needs to be imporved is security, networking, the registry, and the ability to insta-kil
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
Minus the Office Suite is a pretty fucking big omission. That's second only to minus the internet. But Microsoft pulled that one out of the fire on Windows 95
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
Just out of curiosity, what's your gripe with the registry?
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Informative)
While in *theory* the registry is ok, I find major problems in the following areas:
1. Migrating configs from one system to another system. On a *nix based system, I can simply copy the text configs and be on my way.. With the registry, there is no standard way to export the config of a given application easily and consistently.
2. Organization - ties into #1 -- there are LOTS of programs that store/update/modify registry information in various parts of the registry. As a result, it is *VERY* difficult to track down configuration issues unless it has been previously documented (ie KB article). Outlook tops my list for aggervation with this one.
3. Lack of alternate configs
4. Lots of data loaded un-necessarily. The registry contains a LOT of information. Configs for apps I use infrequently still are loaded and still need to be dealt with (a source of general slowdown).
5. No ability to add comments to particular settings (ie a comment line in a text config file).
6. AFAIK, no built-in versioning control (can't see how the registry has changed over time)
Having said all that
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
The two are incompatable. It's a constant barage from Customer Support trying to tell Development to "get the heck out of the registry."
Of course, our other product writes to text files...and we are constantly having to tell people to give write access to those text files. And finally, another product writes to files that are stored in the users space. (Flavor of the day is "C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\application\" Have fun walking a non-techy user through checking that. (Especially since it's typically hidden by default.)
I guess there's no way to win...but we've definitely 'lost' the most when using the registry.
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong. Windows may have more driver *support* in some cases, but those drivers don't come packaged with Windows. Linux supports more hardware out of the box than any other OS.
And most Linux distros will package at least KDE and Gnome, along with Windowmaker, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, Blackbox
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
A normal/basic Linux distro (e.g. Ubuntu) installs to about 2 GB. You can add tons of stuff to that, but they are all useful applications, not fluff. And you sure don't need 2 GB of RAM to run them.
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
Comparing full install size of Vista to a large Linux distro is apples to oranges.
Yes, some of the large Linux distros are huge, multi-CD behemoths. But they include just about every piece of free software under the sun. For your comparison convenience, here's a list of programs usually included with a mega-distro:
That's a fraction of what you get with a distro like Suse, Mandriva, or Debian.
Now, a list of what you get with a full Vista install:
Notice something? Nobody uses Paint. Nobody uses Wordpad. Nobody uses Notepad. Nobody uses Outlook Express. Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper. For most intents, Windows is just a 10 gig OS. If you want to do anything useful, you have to install other programs.
A full install of a large Linux distro has programs for just about anything someone might want to do on a computer, and it's actually useful software. If it didn't include AbiWord already, I'd go download it. If Windows didn't have Wordpad, I wouldn't care.
But I run Slackware. It's 2 CDs - a full install is less than 3 GB, and comes with word processors, latex, compilers, debuggers, network tools, 4 window managers, XMMS, and some other stuff. It's very useable, comes with a hell of a lot more stuff than Windows, and is less than 1/4th the size for a full install.
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:2)
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Funny)
You obviously don't have relatives.
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Informative)
To be fair, the
Basic drivers (See
Which article?
Nobody uses Paint. Nobody uses Wordpad. Nobody uses Notepad. Nobody uses Outlook Express. Nobody plays Solitaire and Minesweeper.
That's a big BS. Maybe Wordpad. But paint; people use that sometimes. I personally use Notepad all the freaking time.* So do many people I know. I'll occasionally play Solitare and Minesweeper. I'm pretty sure some people use Outlook.
I'm not disputing your overall point which is that comparing a Linux distro to Vista sizewise is a stupid comparison, but you're being *slightly* unfair to Windows here.
*I was using Notepad++ instead of Notepad, but then I had to reinstall Windows (and everything else) when my hard drive I guess decided that it was tired of spinning, and I've never reassociated
Replying to yourself is lame... (Score:2)
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3)
Actually I guess these days I use nano for that, but when I used windows regularly they were useful
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Informative)
It's the one application I can't live without. Ever try to copy and paste from one "rich" app to another? Notepad to the rescue! It strips off that font color / background color / font size in a flash. Oh, and don't get me started about calc. I love that thing. I stopped hunting for my calculator somewhere in the 90's and never looked back.
Besides, it's more like (cut 'n pasting with calc: (40-15)= ) 25 GIGS!
A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least [microsoft.com]
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Right-clicking then Open in Notepad has to be the most common action for me and many others on a Windows machine.
Re:10 gigs thats not huge anymore (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, but much of the reason the Vista install has grown is because they're including much more bundles in this one than before, so yes, Linux may include even more, but the reason both grows is the same. Vista will compared to XP also include: a search based on Windows Desktop Search, Windows Defender, Windows SideShow, Windows Calendar, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows DVD Maker, Windows Collaboration, BitLocker, new games (Chess, Mahjong, Purble Place), Services for UNIX.
So it's unfair to say that it's unfair to say that only Linux is gaining size from bundles.
Personally, I thought the idea of overly many bundles were idiotic, Windows and Linux editions/distros alike.
Instead release free/cheap "Addon Packs" to order on CD's for those who want, or via a slick OS integration for direct downloads if you have a good connection. For Linux/Windows to assume that everyone should want the bundled Movie Maker or other esoteric applications is just plain stupid IMHO.
40+ pages on Tom's = 400 words (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:40+ pages on Tom's = 400 words (Score:2)
Woa... (Score:2)
When you make a sci-fi, you can brag how many frames have CG and how many special fx shots you have, but this is just wrong I tell ya...
10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay, so the beta as ships is compiled in debug mode, so the final release won't be 10GB; assume an average of 30% overhead for debug hooks (that's a generous figure). That w
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
Thats really the deciding factor of a 200$+ OS.
Btw: you realize that its the "kitchen sink" version with all crap, too? Including for example the Media Player edition? How much disk space does iDVD, for example, use again in a full install, as a point of comparison?
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:3, Informative)
Much of it has to do with "internationalization", having language resources (help files, menus whatever) in some fifty major languages. Hard core 7-bit people can get rid of this, but for many of us this is very very practical.
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
So they started introducing redundancy, including the
Then they added system backup points, which backup huge chunks of the system across multiple points automatically, functionally doubling the size of the installation.
I'm guessing they
Custom install? (Score:2)
Re:Custom install? (Score:2)
3vs6 (Score:2)
So what do we have additional:
new network stack
new GUI
new indexing
spyware/defender stuff
couple of additional programs
plus a few things I'm likely missing.
Assuming the GUI uses a variety of different te
Re:3vs6 (Score:2)
Only when it suits them. Have you tried most MS-DOS games in XP? Oh yeah good thing that Microsoft wrote "DOSBox"...(/sarcasm)
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:5, Informative)
Not true at all. The default install for my G5 was well over 10 gigs on OSX 10.4.x.
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
But there is nothing like that in Vista.
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:2)
I can't speak to OS X (but I think it's somewhere between Suse and Vista), but comparing the space provided by Suse and Vista is utterly ridiculous. That 8 gigs of Suse will get you binaries at least to more programs than you can imagine. It might get you source to all of them too. I have a 3.43 gig virtual machine with SLES 9 that has programs for more things than Windows comes with.
Re:10GB? You have got to be kidding! (Score:3, Insightful)
I wasn't aware that Microsoft was bundling SQL Server, Microsoft Office, a variety of development suites, full mail servers, various database front ends, multiple scripting languages, a HUGE selection of drivers (including source), a huge variety of desktop environments, a huge selection of media players, a slew of networking protocols and enterprise-capable server applications AND dropping the 10-connection limitation. Thanks for enlightening us!
(Hint: 8GB of SuSE or any ot
One good thing... (Score:2)
Re:One good thing... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:One good thing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only a dupe, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
All these 'wonderful' reviews running around on Vista, and still none exist that talk about the OS itself, all the reviews are doing is throwing up some pictures of the desktop and talking about AERO.
For example have you yet seen a review that mentions key points of the new OS of things that changed, like kernel changes, new memory management, new process scheduling, how the Video Driver is moved up from kernel level to user level, but still getting kernel level performace or even anytyhing on the vector based composer that is behind the AERO or WPF?
Nope...
Until you see these types of reviews, all you are going to get is a taste of the freaking eye candy and nerds going, "Here is the control panel" (Picture)
Re:Not only a dupe, but... (Score:3)
Um...thats all thats new in the OS. Shiny desktop, pretty pictures, lots of annoying security dialogs.
C: Drive Partition... (Score:2)
Re:C: Drive Partition... (Score:2, Funny)
File count is not a measure of OS size (Score:4, Informative)
"it has more than 37,800 files"
For comparison: my Mac (Mac OS X 10.4.6) has:
Re:File count is not a measure of OS size (Score:2)
Lovely to see drm and the fritz chip in action (Score:2)
Funny I thought drm was not required to encrypt a drive? Oh yeah, all the components will have a trust relationship to lock data from the user and to force upgrades as windows will refuse to run if you change more than 2 or 3 things without paying for it again.
HDD Space (Score:5, Interesting)
Laptop users may have a valid whine, with low-end drives at 40GB, mid-range at 80GB or so, but I'd expect that a notebook install wouldn't take that much on a low-end product.
I'm not fond of the Microsoft Vista Ultimate Extreme De Luxe Ultra version that's a complete system-resources orgy that wants a few GB or so of RAM or a UI that makes my Geforce run at a good % of max for a good slice of time et cetera.
On the plus side, MS Vista will be shipping (eventually) with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever.
Re:HDD Space (Score:2)
LAPTOPS! Why does everyone forget about laptops?
The largest 2.5" drive Newegg sells is 160 GB. And that's $224. Some other samples:
100GB starts at $109
60GB starts at $70
Even with the 100 gig drive, that's 10% going to your OS! I don't know about you, but that seems a bit large.
And the problem's worse if you don't look at buying drives separately. The IBM X41
40 pages? (Score:4, Funny)
"Haha" (Score:2)
Someone make a real article comparing vista to xp or vista to ubuntu.
And if Toms Hardware Thinks (Score:2)
Learn to put stuff that big in a PDF and make it available for download - or at least one big HTML page.
Idiots.
Re:And if Toms Hardware Thinks (Score:2)
Oh, give me a break. (Score:3, Interesting)
Another Tom's Hard-On review with two paragraphs per page that stretches out to 40 pages is supposed to be thorough because it is long?
You think MAYBE it has something to do with the thick coating of ads all over TH's pages? I mean, they could have put it all on two pages or even one if they'd wanted.
Is somebody at Tom's paying you guys to post these dupes about hard-to-read articles that add little insight to the pool of knowledge about Vista?
Trick for Tom's -- append "print.html" to URL (Score:4, Informative)
Just append print.html to end of the Tom's URL and get the one page print article.
I figure if the article is a dupe, might as well dupe any useful comments, right?
Tom's ancient history (Score:2)
I vaguely remember accessible but technical articles, which talked about important things. Hardware hackery that showed exactly what an individual with a soldering iron could do if they were so inclined. Articles that were written for people who had a clue.
How long ago was that?
Reminds me of a high school term project... (Score:4, Informative)
Very unbiased review... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's amazing that a "hardware" company like Apple can roll out a new OS nearly every year while it takes a "software" company like Microsoft seven to steal all of Apple's ideas...
Here is your fix. (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/windows_vi
Tada!
Its on one page
my mini review of vista beta 2 (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh well (Score:2)
I'm particularly incensed that MS once again failed miserably on the innovation side and copied feature for feature from Firefox. That's probably a clear sign that they're on the precipice of their downfall. They've stopped innovating.
What took 500 hours? (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft Appliance (Score:3, Insightful)
Its not a personal computer if you don't have full control over it. Its a Microsoft approved appliance.
My two cents.
Enjoy,
Re:read it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:read it? (Score:2)
I copied and pasted everything, then stripped out the advertisement text, and the wordcount is 5119 words.
So about 120 words per page, spread out over 40 pages. That's a joke.
Re:read it? (Score:2)
You went through all that? What a f'n nerd!
Oh wait, this is slashdot. Carry on, then! <disclaimerforfolkswithnosenseofhumor>(just kidding, don't take offense, etc.)</disclaimerforfolkswithnosenseofhumor>
Yes. (Score:4, Informative)
All you have to do is append print.html to the end.
Printable View Link (Score:3, Informative)
The link you gave didnt work though.
Here the right one.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/windows_vi
Re:Printable View Link (Score:3, Informative)
Watch out for referrer checking (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Watch out for referrer checking (Score:2)
Re:Index (Score:2)
never mind, nothing to see here...move along
Re:you call that a review? (Score:2)
Pshaw!