Miyamoto Says Sony Controller is 'Flattering'

GamesIndustry.biz describes an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto, in which the designer refers to the PS3 controller as 'flattering'. From the article: "... it kind of reinforces in our minds that we're doing the right thing. What they've done is just take your standard controller and add in this motion-sensing device that's similar to what we did back on the Game Boy Color many years ago. Maybe if they were to completely copy and go with a remote and a nunchuk and two motion sensors, I might be a little more concerned. But I don't think they're anywhere close to that."

Re:Hypocrisy

[jizziknight]

I think the point he's trying to make is that Nintendo is trying to change that.

Re:Hypocrisy

[joshsisk]

Kind of hypocritical given Nintendo's track record of Mario platformers, racers, beat-em-ups and tennis games, along with the neverending Zelda series and the myriad Pokemon versions.

This discussion keeps getting brought up, and the answer is, as it always is - just because Mario or Link is in a game, doesn't mean it's the same game. The progression of gameplay in, say, the Zelda series, from NES to SNES to 64 to Cube has been pretty impressive. I would say the leap between 64 and Cube is probably more graphical than anything, but compare the game play of Legend of Zelda to A Link To The Past, and you will see a huge leap. Similarly, compare A Link To The Past to Ocarina of Time - it's not like it's the same game with prettier graphics and new maps. Wind Waker was not a huge leap in gameplay over Ocarina/Majorica's Mask, but then again those two are probably among the highest regarded console games ever, so it's a tough act to follow.

Re:Hypocrisy

[kisrael]

Actually I was just thinking about how much,say, Z:OoT was to the original Legend of Zelda in so mcuh of its mechanic. It's a lot closer than, say, Mario 64 is to SMB or Metroid Prime is to Metroid, mostly because the original game had a 3/4 perspective that was pseudo-3D to begin with.

Its funny how use I've gotten to the name "Wii". I still see a few diehards making pee jokes or calling it "The Revolution", but I think most of us have come to accept it. It feels like it's part of the overall scheme to bran

Re:Hypocrisy

[drinkypoo]

IIRC 3/4 perspective is where you can see three sides of the object (if it were a cube, anyway...) The original zelda was not 3/4 isometric, but a 1/2 view or something (you could see only the face facing you, and the top face of a cube-shaped monster, again, if there was one.)

Re:Hypocrisy

[Rydia]

Usually referred to as "top-down"

Re:Hypocrisy

[Muchacho_Gasolino]

Wind Waker wasn't a huge leap in gameplay? I'd say purely gameplay-wise, Wind Waker has less in common with Ocarina/Majora's Mask than Ocarina has with A Link to the Past. Ocarina felt to me like reimagining of how to play A Link to the Past in 3D. For example, the concept of a Hookshot is meaningless in a game without a third dimension. A lot of the other things were similar, like themed dungeons and pushing puzzles. Wind Waker was just a completely different way to play Zelda.

Re:Hypocrisy

[joe 155]

did nintendo rip-off the mario platform? did they rip off the zelda games? besides what is so good about these series is that they continue to be revolutionary - doing new things in new ways and pretty much always being excellent. Look at Zelda:OoT that was a fantastic revolution for zelda games

Re:Hypocrisy

[RailGunner]

did nintendo rip-off the mario platform?

Depends - does hacking Doki Doki Panic and changing the main characters from a family to Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad count as a ripoff?

did they rip off the zelda games?

Probably - Atari 2600 had a top down "quest" game called Adventure, and Intellivision had the A D & D cart...

besides what is so good about these series is that they continue to be revolutionary - doing new things in new ways and pretty much always being excellent.

What did Super Mario Wor

Re:Hypocrisy

[BinaryOpty]

Why are you using games released after Mario 64 as an argument of "other games like that" as if they were from before? Also neither Crash Bandicoot nor Tomb Raider were a free-roaming 3D game like Mario 64 and all three games were released within a 3 month window making it hard for the other two listed games to have "done it before."

Your gameplay distillation of OoT to try and devalue its revolution in gameplay is sad. Breaking the game down to its core gameplay pieces is missing the point. All games can

Re:Hypocrisy

[RailGunner]

Do you know how long it takes for a game to be developed? By mentioning that they all came out around the same time just proves my point that Mario 64 wasn't the "revolution" some people think it was, as there are / were many other examples. If we want to split hairs, how much different is Mario 64 from isometric platform games like Solstice and Snake, Rattle, and Roll?

Your gameplay distillation of OoT to try and devalue its revolution in gameplay is sad. Breaking the game down to its core gameplay pieces

Re:Hypocrisy

[justchris]

So are you sayinig that Mario 64 would have been revolutionary had it used characters other than Mario? Because unless you are, you don't really have a valid point here.

How revolutionary a game is has nothing to do with the characters used, and everything to do with how the gameplay is designed and how much of an impact it has on the games that follow after it.

For instance, the Z-targeting feature in Ocarina of Time is a feature that has been copied in pretty much every 3d adventure game that has come out since. It's something simple that makes perfect sense, but was missing in games like Mario 64, because no one had thought of it yet.

If you're going to strip away everything and drop a game down to it's most base characteristics, there's very little actual difference between Zelda:OoT and Mario 64, or Zelda & Tomb Raider or any of a thousand games. But each of those games has added something significant to the gaming industry to the point that every game in it's respective genre uses some form of it. And that is what I consider innovation.

Re:Hypocrisy

[linvir]

So are you sayinig that Mario 64 would have been revolutionary had it used characters other than Mario? Because unless you are, you don't really have a valid point here.

How revolutionary a game is has nothing to do with the characters used, and everything to do with how the gameplay is designed and how much of an impact it has on the games that follow after it.

Way to delude yourself into thinking you're right. Unfortunately, he said nothing about characters in that entire post. He talked about gameplay and

Re:Hypocrisy

[justchris]

Which just goes to show you didn't read the entire thread. Nor does the nature of my initial statement in anyway invalidate the strength of my argument. As you'll note, the two were unrelated.

One of these days, when I have the time, I will prove using the mathematics of game theory that there is less difference between LoZ:OoT & GTA3:Vice City than there is between Super Mario World & Mario 64.

And an upgrade from 2d to 3d is not a simple evolution. I'm quite certain Sega (Sonic) and Capcom (Castl

Re:Hypocrisy

[barawn]

Kind of hypocritical given Nintendo's track record of Mario platformers, racers, beat-em-ups and tennis games, along with the neverending Zelda series and the myriad Pokemon versions.

Not really. Most of Nintendo's sequels are much, much different than previous ones - they just keep some of the style and names the same. The biggest example I can think of is Majora's Mask for the N64. Sure, it's a Zelda game, but it feels wildly different than Ocarina of Time. Wind Waker felt different than both (though not i

Re:Hypocrisy

[thebdj]

Kind of hypocritical given Nintendo's track record of Mario platformers, racers, beat-em-ups and tennis games, along with the neverending Zelda series and the myriad Pokemon versions.

Tell me were any of the original Mario games exactly alike? No. Super Mario Bros 2 was completely different from just about every other one in the franchise. They change things up again with 3. Things even got a bit of a makeover in World and Mario 64 was different as well. Yes, some of the gameplay remains the same, but a lot is different. Just because you re-use a franchise over and over does not mean you cannot revolutionize with the games you make in that franchise.

The Zelda series is similar to the Mario series in many of the same reasons. The games change and have new dynamics. No one can tell me that Ocarina and Windwaker were the same game. They are two different experiences. More then just graphics changes with these series. The new Zelda even proposes to offer new twists not yet seen.

Now, the Pokemon games, I cannot condone. I pretty much hate everything Pokemon. Let us just say Nintendo was smart with that one. Tons of games that are mostly the same and kids will want damn near everyone one, and the parents are going to shell out the money.

Nintendo does vary games within the franchise and while many may play the same or close to it, they still do a good job of creating things that are new and exciting. The Wii is something that we really haven't seen before. The remote is going to create new games with new gameplay options. There has been talk that LA may even give up a lightsaber game for Wii. How sweet would that be? Not to mention all the funny videos we can get online too.

You see, what Miyamoto was trying to say was, you have all these games that you play the exact same way as before and are almost always just graphics improved versions of their predecessor, but with the Wii, you are going to get a new controller that offers great new opportunities for game play and a new experience all together. Remember, I think a few people laughed at Nintendo when they told people about the DS, but I think a lot of people now see that Nintendo may not have been as crazy after all.

Re:Hypocrisy

[daenris]

Yes... Doki Doki Panic or something like that if I'm remembering correctly. However, when marketed in the US with the Mario characters in place of the previous sprites, it became a Mario franchise game.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Manmademan]

The actual SMB2- released here later as the lost levels- is almost a direct sequel to SMB and is very VERY similar in gameplay, layout, etc. . If you look at SMB, then "lost levels", then SMB3 there's a much more obvious progression. SMB2 is different because as another poster noted above, it's a completely different game that had mario characters added as an afterthought.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Hogwash McFly]

Super Mario Bros 2 was completely different from just about every other one in the franchise

Actually, the real SMB2 was almost identical to the first game with the exception of a few extras like poisonous mushrooms and gusts of wind. The SMB2 you played was basically a completely different game, Doki Doki Panic, with some Mario sprites substituted. This version was introduced to American/European markets because the original SMB2 was deemed too hard - I can attest that it is quite difficult, at least when

Re:Hypocrisy

[linvir]

We obviously have very different tastes, because I find the 2D Mario series just as samey as the Pokemon series, but got a lot of enjoyment out of both.

Re:Hypocrisy

[happymedium]

Right, so Zelda 64, Mario 64, etc. etc. didn't innovate; they were just "more of the same."

Um, NO. Nintendo keeps up established series for the sake of their name recognition, but the gameplay dynamics within these series are often malleable.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen the game list for the PS3? It's all sequels. All. Nothing new. Nintendo is going out and doing new things. It's not hypocritical at all. Yes, they're reusing some of the same characters (like Mario, Link, and Samus), but they're completely new and different experiences using the Wii Remote.

What are the big PS3 titles?

Devil May Cry 4
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resident Evil 5
Tekken 6
Final Fantasy 13 (you'd think after 12 people would get sick of it, but there's no accounting for taste)

Nothing but t

Re:Hypocrisy

[linvir]

Big deal. If Nintendo had numbered the names of the games in each series as honestly as those other companies, it'd look just as bad. While it's true that there has been marginally more innovation in Nintendo's big series', it's the fact that they consistently provide more enjoyable gameplay without obsessing over graphics that makes them stand out, not their innovations.

Re:Hypocrisy

[CogDissident]

but they're completely new and different experiences using the Wii Remote.
Small note: Even without the Wiimote, the games themselves are quite different too.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

To be fair, Final Fantasy has had only one true sequal. X and X-2 was it. I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, XI, Tactics, Chronicles, etc are all independant of each other.

Re:Hypocrisy

[AnyoneEB]

Every FF game is a different variation on a CRPG. The first few are turn based and the rest are active battle system except 12 is real time. That does not mean they all had the same battle system. They are no more similar in gameplay than SMB3 and SMW, actually much less so.

Re:Hypocrisy

[AnyoneEB]

I have in fact played through both SMB3 and SMW, although I admit that I have never actually completed a Final Fantasy game. The differences between CRPGs are the different ways to level up your characters and control their stats and abilities. Saying that all the FF games are the same because they all involve fighting the same enemies over and over is like saying SMB3 and SMW are the same game because you jump on Koopas in both of them.

Re:Hypocrisy

[LouisZepher]

Actually, Chronicles, Anthology and Origins were rehashes of 5&6,4, and 1&2 respectively. But you're right, the series was more of an anthology than a series, much like the Zelda series one could argue.

Re:Hypocrisy

[tehshen]

Make a list of five (out of thirty-four) games that just happen to be sequels? Brilliant!

Maybe you should take a look at the list of games sometime, for both the PS3 and the Wii. Pretending that games that don't support your argument don't exist just makes you a fanboy.

Re:Hypocrisy

[justchris]

To be fair, Square has lately been making very major changes in how their Final Fantasy games play. Sometimes to the annoyance of their fans. If you're going to count Final Fantasy as being more of the same, you might as well go ahead and lump Mario and Zelda in there.

Re:Hypocrisy

[lotsotech]

Or like millions of other people we can take advantage of the $2500 set we bought 3 years ago. Personally I want to play pretty much every game in that list. Would it make you feel better if the names were changed to: Devil May Cry 64 Super Resident Evil Final Fantasy Wii Companies make sequels to good games because they're good. Nothing too complicated here.

Re:If so, it's your own fault

[linvir]

DS:

• Nintendogs - flashy tamagotchi
• Mario Kart DS - Mario Kart
• Animal Crossing: Wild World - RPG
• Super Mario 64 DS - Super Mario
• Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day - puzzles
• Dr. Kawashimas Brain Training 2 - More puzzles
• WarioWare: Touched! - Lucrative tech demo for the DS
• Big Brain Academy - More puzzles
• Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop - more tamagotchi
• English Training - not even a game

GBA:
The top 20 or so bestselling games on the list are rehashes and sequels.

GC:
Most of the top 10 are seq

Oh, really?

[phorm]

I think that the statement given here is basically that the "next-gen" consoles don't have any "new" features, just upgraded ones. Faster processor and GPU, more RAM, and larger storage device.

You might not think Nintendo innovative, as they do definately use their brand-name games (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc), but those games differ greatly along the way. And Nintendo is definately no slouch to trying new things, whether or not they all work out:

Super Scope
Power Glove
Virtual Boy
Gameboy Handheld (alt

Re:Oh, really?

[Mitaphane]

To Nintendo's credit, they didn't make the Power Glove [wikipedia.org] Mattel did.

Re:Oh, really?

[displague]

You didn't mention a few of their other innovations: the ability to use the GBA/SP as a Gamecube controller, Konga drums, the Robotic Operating Buddy, and the Power Pad. Cheetah is going down!

Re:Oh, really?

[phorm]

I guess those would be in the etc category. The GBA/GameCube connection was definately a neat way to make money, and apparently popular enough at the same time (I found it annoying, as I didn't buy into the whole GBA thing, but hey). Power-pad seems like it was just a few generations too early, or at least lacking in the games, but it could have been a popular one with the right timing (see current DDR-pads and games).

And yes, I'll admit to completely forgetting our li'l robot buddy (say one, thought it w

Re:well...

[KDR_11k]

It's called a "patent" and Sony doesn't seem to give a damn about it.

Re:Ob. quote

[Daegras]

I believe the quote is, "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Re:Ob. quote

[CelticWhisper]

"Imitation is the sincewest fowm of flattewii."

Ha! Wii reference and Princess Bride joke in one comment. Beat that!

Re:Ob. quote

[idonthack]

Careful! Talk like that can bring the *AAs knocking at your door!
 
If you don't watch out you might even find yourself the owner of a brand new patent :P

Re:I'm glad...

[BakaHoushi]

As a representative of H. Games, Inc. I am obligated to inform you that your use of the word "bukkakefest" is in direct copryright infringement of our company and is taken as slander. We'll see you in court.

Sweet Jesus...

[swerk]

That'll teach me to look up words I don't understand. Uff da. Well, at least it wasn't a tubgirl link.

(I know, off-topic... but seriously!)

Re:3D Joystick.

[KDR_11k]

It was a gamepad and it didn't pick up accelleration. Not sure if it came before the GBC, though.

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[satoshi1]

Lukewarm reaction? Everywhere you go, Nintendo is heralded as having the best show at E3.

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[satoshi1]

Warhawk tight? Really? I've heard maybe one person say that, IGN I believe. Everything else I've read said it was way too.. soft? Not really a good word in this context, but I believe it gets the idea across. As for the Wii games not being all that "revolutionary," that was the first day anyone was able to play any games. Those are the first games for the system. The system isn't even out yet. There's time to fix a lot of the "problems" people have been talking about. Besides, the true potential of

As A Long Time Flying Car Owner

[Ant P.]

Are you kidding? Sony's presentation [google.co.uk] was the best by far!!

Re:As A Long Time Flying Car Owner

[DDLKermit007]

lol...I feel kinda bad I didn't get the joke till I clicked the link.

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[joshsisk]

"There is nothing 'flattering' about the Sony tilt sensing controller - and complaining that Sony is copying you is like a little kid getting mad that another little kid picked the same colour for their player in some game."

Was he really complaining? And wasn't there a story on here recently where a Sony rep admitted they added the feature because of all the Nintendo buzz for it?

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[CogDissident]

Motion sensing/pointing/whathave you type controllers have been around for a long, long time. I remember hardware guys having PS3 tilt and Rev type controllers all the way back in the early 80s - clunky and less refined, of course.
Yes, pointing technology... Duck hunt anyone?

There is nothing 'flattering' about the Sony tilt sensing controller - and complaining that Sony is copying you is like a little kid getting mad that another little kid picked the same colour for their player in some game.
You do

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[CogDissident]

Granted, they have rehashed some parts, but they innovate with each new generation. As someone else posted here, Zelda on NES is different from SNES and is vastly different from Zelda 64. And each new generation of console has had a huge number of new innovative games.

Re:As A Long Time Nintendo Developer

[justchris]

Because gamers keep buying rehashes.

Nintendo keeps rehashing Mario Kart because everyone wants to play it. To their credit, they've only done it once for each new console, however. And even with that, they still change the way it plays every single time (which a lot of people have complained about).

They keep rehashing Mario Party which is up to freakin' 8 now. Except each edition has completely different mini-games.

They keep rehashing pokemon, except with different pokemon, and of course they've ma

Re:It's interesting that ....

[chrismcdirty]

This isn't Digg. This site was designed to be a nerd news site. It deals with tech, science, games, and more. And it has done fairly well when it comes to sticking to the topics it was designed to "report" to its readers.

Re:It's interesting that ....

[peterpi]

This isn't Digg. This site was designed to be a nerd dupe site. It deals with tech, science, games, and more. And it has done fairly well when it comes to sticking to the topics it was designed to "dupe" to its readers.

Re:It's interesting that ....

[peterpi]

This isn't Digg. This site was designed to be a nerd dupe site. It deals with tech, science, games, and more. And it has done fairly well when it comes to sticking to the topics it was designed to "dupe" to its readers.

Re:It's interesting that ....

[CogDissident]

How about some articles on IT folks who sit in front of displays all day getting out and getting some exercise?

This is a News site, we don't generally like too much fiction in our stories.

Re:It's interesting that ....

[porcupine8]

You know, if you don't like the games articles, you can set preferences as to which sections you see on the front page.

And if you want articles on eating healthy or exercising or something along those lines, you can... I dunno... Go to a website about those things? This is like saying "Hey, this is the BBC site, everything here is about England! Why can't I get my hometown news from the middle of Nebraska here?"

Re:Sony didn't copy Nintendo

[jrieth50]

You're clearly insane or a pathological Anyonymous liar. Unless you're referring to the "dual shock" look which they went back to after showing everyone laughed at their "boomerang" controller. But don't forget - while the look is just an updated SNES controller - Sony may not have innovated dual shock either - they're being sued over the 'shock' feature and have lost their first round in March (not keeping up... did they lose in apeals?

They admitted they added the feature to the control 45 days before th

Are they the same?

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

I really don't think that Sony's Gamepad with motion detection is the same as Nintendo's Remote Controller.

First, the entire premise behind Nintendo's Wii controller is that you NEED to move it in 3D in order to control on screen content. Sony's concept is to give you a traditional gamepad that has the ability to offer 3D game control.

Second, Nintendo is shunning conventional gameplay with their next generation console. Expect lots of novelty and gimmicky game titles that rely on waving their remote contro

Re:Are they the same?

[Dance_Dance_Karnov]

There has been fishing in zelda since Link's Awakening on the GB. over 10 years.

Re:Are they the same?

[spitefowl]

You can't really say they're adding fishing to the game purely because of the new control scheme. Previous Zelda titles included fishing. It seems like it would just make it more fun. Damn them!

Re:Are they the same?

[wickedj]

Just to let you know, there is a conventional controller for Wii. It's called the Classic Controller. Basically a SNES controller with two analogs on the bottom. The Wii will also support GC controllers. Nintendo left plenty of options for developers to use standard controllers as well as the WiiMote. They aren't shunning anything. They even stated that the new Smash Bros. is more effectively played with a GC controller than a WiiMote and so it is most likely won't take advantage of the features on the WiiMote.

As for Sony copying Nintendo, I don't think it's a direct copy but I do think that the addition of motion sensors was cemented the day Nintendo announced their goals. Motion sensors have been around for a long time but it's probably Nintendo that will take it mainstream. Sony following suit is a sign that Nintendo isn't the only one who knows you can push graphics only so far. If they were the ones to think of it, at least Sony is willing to not stand idly by.

Seriously though, I can't wait to try out both consoles (though my heart and wallet is set on Nintendo).

Re: More like cynical pessimist

[the dark hero]

I mean, they are adding fishing to Zelda simply for the sake of having the gimmick of kids bobbing and dipping their remote controller to mimic fishing.

Zelda games have had fishing for quite some time now.

Nintendo is FORCING innovation, Sony is evolving it.

Sony is doing little to evolve anything. The sensor only adds tilting capabilities to its controller where the wiimote can also sense depth. You might as well just add another button and call it "evolution." No one can "force" innovation. Nintendo

Re: More like cynical pessimist

[PrinceOfStorms]

Wario Ware: Twisted uses the same technology as the PS3 controller. The wiimote truly adds some "evolution" to a tried and true formula.

Wario Ware: Twisted went one further as it had rumble. It makes a huge difference to the feel of the controller, giving the illusion of resistance as you tilt it. Sony still hasn't caught up with Wario.

Re:Are they the same?

[DDLKermit007]

Did you even care to watch the Sony demo from E3 of Warhawk or are you just a Sony PR troll? It was funny as hell watching them play that game (not to mention all the other gimicks they rolled out after saying they will resort to gimicks). They were jerking the controler around like crazy and were haveing a fairly hard time with it. Not to mention when I went looking for it on the Sony floorspace at the convention it was mysteriously unavailable for play. Thier acceleromiter is the gimick here (without any

Re:Are they the same?

[KDR_11k]

Had Microsoft not jumped the gun and just had to get their Xbox360 out the door before Christmas 2005, then I am sure Microsoft would have added 3D positional gameplay to the Xbox360.

Microsoft had a gamepad with a motion sensor 6 years ago. They learned from that mistake. Sonyis lacking that learning experience (and judging by the price and their treatment of developers they aren't willing to learn from the errors of others).

Flattery, or...

[Rimbo]

...Miyamoto has enough class not to say what I was thinking it was. But I don't, so I'll say it:

It could be flattery; more likely, however, it's the floundering move of a corporation that really has no direction or clue of what it should be doing. This is monkey-see monkey-do, not "recognition."

Lack of rumble feature...

[Jerim]

....caused Sony to add something else to the controller. Tilt control was the obvious solution. Sony didn't want to send out a bland controller that.

Most people will ignore the feature, and in won't make a bit of difference in the console wars. But they certainly weren't going to relase just a plain controller. They just needed a gimmick so that the controller wouldn't be a soft point in side to side comparisons.

Imitation

[CriminalNerd]

As the saying goes, "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery." I think Miyamoto was hinting at something when he said "flattering."