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Employers Trolling for Current Employee Resumes? 229

Posted by Cliff from the if-you-put-yourself-out-there-you're-at-risk dept.
powderhound asks: "Recently, my employer started looking for new employees and started to find the resumes of current employees on the job Web sites. I've heard that management was not pleased. In the old days, before Web job sites, you could job hunt with relative certainty that your current employer would not find out until you gave notice. Now, any employer wishing to check on their employee's desire to find a new job need only sign up on the job Web sites and start trolling. How do we, as employees looking to change jobs, protect ourselves from possible discovery, and even worse, retribution? What have you done to protect yourself? Do you think employers are trolling job sites for their own employees?"
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Employers Trolling for Current Employee Resumes? More

Employers Trolling for Current Employee Resumes?

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  • The Real Problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Medgur ( 172679 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:03PM (#15275075) Homepage
    The real problem is that your employers didn't recognise their employee's discontent and ambition. Rather than opening a discussion to improve the quality of their employment they chose to become displeased. It's no wonder they're experiencing employee retention issues, they have an aggressive and hostile methodology in dealing with their employees.

    Move on, move on.

    • Re:The Real Problem (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:14PM (#15275117)
      The real problem is actually that his management probably didn't consider that the people may just have their resumes out there to see what's going on... Testing the waters. It doesn't have to mean that they actually are actively seeking to leave. They got upset because they expect loyalty, so innocent explanations escaped them. It really would be best if managers realized that they were in a business relationship with their employees, and nothing more. Just keep that relationship mutually beneficial and you don't have to worry about your employees leaving.

      • Re:The Real Problem (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:37PM (#15275196) Homepage Journal
        Just as employers can many times drop employees on a whim, depending on laws of course, employees can change employers as well. It is a two-way street, any manager expecting it to be a one-way street is fooling themselves. Still, I wonder if it is legal to fire someone just for having looked for alternate employment options. Maybe it is legal, but that would be one scary hostile workplace.

        • Re:The Real Problem (Score:4, Interesting)

          by SeeMyNuts! ( 955740 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @12:01AM (#15275295)
          "It is a two-way street, any manager expecting it to be a one-way street is fooling themselves."

          It is a two-way street, but management has a big SUV that takes up both lanes.

          I live in a rural area, and it has been known for the grapevine to "black list" certain people at potential employers, outside of official channels. When I lived in an urban area, it is common to find that most employers are equally crappy. It is very common for companies to want to pay practially nothing. Being a independent contractor could be great, but even that is highly volatile. The grass is always greener and all that.

          "Still, I wonder if it is legal to fire someone just for having looked for alternate employment options."

          IIRC, in some states it is legal, such as South Carolina ("will to work" or "right to work", I don't remember exactly).

          Really rewarding and enjoyable workplaces are not particularly common. I worked briefly for one Fortune 500--but family run--company, and it was a great place to work (ample training, good benefits, etc.). Too bad it was in a part of the country I didn't want to live in.

          • right to work (Score:2, Informative)

            by stoolpigeon ( 454276 )
            a 'right to work' state, is simply one that cannot have closed shops. in some states, if a workplace has a union then an employee must join that union to hold their job. in a right to work state, you can work for an employer and choose not to join the union. to my knowledge it has nothing to do with grounds for termination.

            i do know that in AZ, which is a right to work state (but like i said i don't think the issues are connected) an employer can terminate someone for pretty much any reason (outs
          • I think you mean "at will" employment - basically, if you turn up for work, you deem to be accepting the terms of employment, and if you don't, it means you no longer want the job. Conversely, by letting you work or telling you not to, means whether you have a job to go to.

            Disclaimer: I'm from the UK where permanent employees have a reasonable measure of protection and one-months notice period is common, and contractors usually have at least a week's notice. Such notice period is usually mutual and contra

        • Re:The Real Problem (Score:3, Informative)

          by tverbeek ( 457094 )
          I wonder if it is legal to fire someone just for having looked for alternate employment options.

          Unless you have a contract that states otherwise, it's completely legal. They can fire you for sticking your tongue out at someone. Or for driving the wrong kind of car to work. Or for performing in drag on weekends. "At will" employment means they can fire you for any reason that isn't explicitly prohibited by law. In most jurisdictions, this is limited to race, gender, religion, non-disqualifying handica

      • Re:The Real Problem (Score:5, Interesting)

        by umbrellasd ( 876984 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:54PM (#15275265)
        It really would be best if managers realized that they were in a business relationship with their employees, and nothing more. Just keep that relationship mutually beneficial and you don't have to worry about your employees leaving.
        I see things somewhat differently. What I see in the industry is a definite trend toward companies caring much less about their employees. Employees are "resources" to be "utilized" in a "cost-effective" manner. The hypocrisy is that when an employee does the natural thing and protects themself by treating their employer in a similar fashion, employers get angry.

        What they really want is the most cost-effective relationship possible. And that just may be slavery. There are laws against outright slavery, but "economic" slavery is not outlawed by any means. Most world economies thrive and require it.

        So spend, spend, spend little consumerbots!

        • What I see in the industry is a definite trend toward companies caring much less about their employees.

          What I've never got -- even from my first job at age 13 -- is why people like you EXPECT employers to "care" about you? What, are they your surrogate parents or something? What *I* notice is a definite trend toward people being unwilling to take care of themselves, and so they are constantly looking for someone that will "care" for them (employers, the government, etc).

          You have a simple contract with y

          • Re:The Real Problem (Score:3, Interesting)

            by animaal ( 183055 )
            I don't expect an employer to be like a parent. However, the grandparent post did have a point. I have found that nearly all of my previous employers have said that they care about their employees, and their employees' happiness. Some genuinely did, and some really didn't. Those that did care probably felt that employee happiness helped their cause. However, if an employer claims to care, then yes, I expect their actions to match their words.

            The contract with your employer is just that, a contract. If that'
            • But I've found that I was happiest where I also had a good working relationship with my employer; management saw me as an asset, and did their best to accommodate me.

              The key word there is "accommodate". Friends "care" about each other. Employers "accommodate" employees. It's not that your boss doesn't care if you live or die; he cares in the normal human sense, not in the sense of friends or family. A good employer fosters a good "working relationship" (to use your words), but that's still part of the "w

        • Slave labour does not make for a healthy economy. Ask Stalin. It may seem like a good solution for an individual company, but if they all do it, who can buy their products? Woops. There goes your economy.
        • "What I see in the industry is a definite trend toward companies caring much less about their employees."

          It is a trend that is especially strong in companies that do IT, and consulting has it worst of all. I worked for 13 years in a large firm in the internal IT department. Most of us do long term operational support, with a big upgrade done every 3 to 5 years in various systems. We were privatized 3 years ago and bought by a large firm with a strong background in IT consulting, but very little experience

      • Re:The Real Problem (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RomulusNR ( 29439 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @02:33AM (#15275708) Homepage
        It really would be best if managers realized that they were in a business relationship with their employees, and nothing more.

        Despite how impersonal and dysfunctional that would be, I would actually tolerate that amicably. The problem, of course, is that it tends to tip the hand in favor of the employee at inconvenient times, which employers don't want. Workers are expected to be infinitely local to their employers, while employers simply don't return that loyalty.

        The tendency is not towards an equitable or balanced employer-employee relationship, which the phrase "business relationship" would tend to suggest. The tendency is towards top-down control and imbalance of that relationship. YMMV, and your company might not have gotten there -- yet, or maybe luckily never. But very few companies go from an anti-employee environment to an equitable one without some sort of revoltive event (unionizing, buyout, etc.)

        I agree -- far, far too many companies have no interest or concern regarding employee morale. They either appeal to a very unconvincing "good of the company" mentality, or use fear of termination -- or sometimes neither, using absolutely nothing to encourage workers -- to maintain or aggravate the demoralized status quo.

        Of course, what doesn't help is that employers and employees both know (or think) that employers can always get more obedient, cheaper labor, fairly easily; and both also know (or think) that generally, employees cannot get more accomodating, more lucrative employment without risk.

        So the employer-employee relationship is simply not an amicable, equitable business relationship, but something much more silently adversarial, where employers fight for the cheapest, most productive labor, and employees struggle for the best benefits and pay.

        Say what you will -- organization of labor is probably the only thing that can actually make that relationship at all like a business relationship.
      • They got upset because they expect loyalty, so innocent explanations escaped them. It really would be best if managers realized that they were in a business relationship with their employees, and nothing more. Just keep that relationship mutually beneficial and you don't have to worry about your employees leaving.

        The thing is, that's not how business works. Just like when it comes to sales, you want to sell for the most and produce for the cheapest, when it comes to employment you want to produce the most a

    • Re:The Real Problem (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:18PM (#15275129)
      I dated an HR director for a few years and it gave me a huge insight into what HR does in the modern corporation. HR's job is to basically protect the corporation from any employee liability. This typically means they file away every little thing they think might be useful if they ever need cause for termination, to contest your claims to unemployment, to contest any claims for workman's comp -- basically to cover their ass. You would be amazed at what is in your HR file. ;) Anything after that is just extra.

      Now I'm not saying its like that EVERYwhere, but in most large corporations, and many small ones, HR is not your friend. This is really sad because years ago it was just the opposite. EA obviously has a poor HR department. ;)

      • Re:The Real Problem (Score:2, Informative)

        by Bill Dog ( 726542 )
        At my first job, which was with, at the time, the 2nd largest software company in the world, managers were not allowed to put anything, absolutely NOTHING, positive in the annual performance reviews. So for every employee there was a written record of nothing but negative comments. I figured at the time it was sparked by wrongful termination suits filed by ex-employees, and the company was just trying to prep for them. Still, it didn't exactly do wonders for morale.

    • Re:The Real Problem (Score:3, Insightful)

      by xenocide2 ( 231786 )
      Sociopathic, is what it is. No other rational explaination for why everyone else's employee's resumes should be searchable and their's shouldn't.

  • no name? (Score:5, Informative)

    by MikeFM ( 12491 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:07PM (#15275092) Homepage Journal
    Don't include your real name?
    • How is this redudant, it is directly to the point and nobody else said it first. I would have posted the same thing if it hadn't been here. You can always explain to employers when contacted why you did what you did.

      After all, almost every employer will respect it if you don't want your current employer contacted and it is understood why you wouldn't want that.
      • The problem is when they look at the resume and they say "hey, this person says they are currently working for us but we have no record of them in the system" and they they contact you and discover who you really are (since your contact info probobly matches the info your company has on you).
        • "this person says they are currently working for us but we have no record of them in the system"

          It's quite possible to make your current job secret. For example, Monster actively supports this. Not to say that identifying current employees from resumes is impossible. Presumably your current resume info is the same as when you were hired... However, it's not name or current job that trigger this.
      • You can always explain to employers when contacted why you did what you did.

        Most employeers would probably find this sketchy and a little unbelievable. "What is he trying to hide?"

        Have some balls. Most of us are "at will" employees, which means we can quit our job at any time for any reason; and our employeer can fire us at any time, for many different reasons.

        You have a right to look for a job-- you have an OBLIGATION to look for ways to make your own life better. *they* have a right to consider laying you

    • I deliberatly [1] spell my name / address slightly differently.
      I won't show up if anyone googles for the real me, yet dosn't get anyone suspicious if I use a deliberate fasle name.

      An added advantage is you get to see were employers/agencys share your details / mailing lists etc as when company X post something to you, you know they must have got your name from company Y as it contains the misspeling you gave solely to company Y.

      [1] Yes I know it's spelt wrong, Im dyslexic and cant be arsed running isp

  • Easy. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) *
    Don't post your resume on a job site.

    Most employers don't hire by searching resumes on the web anyway. They post a listing and wait for the applicants to come to them. Also, the old way of finding a job is still the best. Use your network of contacts, or find a reputable headhunter (ask around. 1 headhunter in 100 isn't a schmuck, and somebody you know probably knows which one it is).

    If your resume isn't out there in the public sense, you don't have to worry about your employer finding it. If posting your r

    • Re:Easy. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by screevo ( 701820 )
      I got my current job from a job website. A lot of people I know have gotten sweet gigs from Monster. I don't know why you would imply that job websites aren't useful.

    • Re:Easy. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cervo ( 626632 )
      Many recruiters both internal to big companies and external staffing companies DO search monster. A lot of them will just spam mail you with job offers in fields other than your own or to jobs in areas that you do not want to transfer to. Nevertheless, some of them will contact you and are in with the local companies. I found my first job through this method, and a really great recruiter is helping me now to find another. Furthermore several big companies have contacted me through their recruiters farmi

      • Re:Easy. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by livewire98801 ( 916940 )
        Its amazing how every time I update my resume, I get dozens of people that think I would make a great Insurance salesman, even though all of my experience is in tech support and one gig at RadioShack. I get offers from Monster and CareerBuilder, but none of them are useful to me. I'm not sure that making it hidden wouldn't be such a bad idea.
    • Needed:

      You think that binary executable files are human readable, at least with some help from a hex editor. You think binary net protocols (like X11,IAX2,SMB...) are human readable. You like to break things. You live in the USA.

    • Re:Easy. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Johnny Mnemonic ( 176043 ) <mdinsmore@NoSPaM.gmail.com> on Saturday May 06, 2006 @12:53AM (#15275463) Homepage Journal

      Most employers don't hire by searching resumes on the web anyway. They post a listing and wait for the applicants to come to them.

      I respectfully disagree. If you send your resume and application to a job posting, you are competing with the 100 other applicants that did the same. Whereas, if a recruiter finds your resume online and likes you enough to contact you, they are already sold enough to initiate the human level of contact.

      I have always gotten much further in the interview process when it was initiated by the recruiter instead of the other way around.

      And to that end, I almost always keep my resume online--I just only update it when I'm more actively looking. If an employer found that offensive, they should sign a contract with me that binds me for life. Until I get that, I'm going to more or less continue looking, or considering offers, perpetually.

    • Re:Easy. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jhoger ( 519683 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @01:21AM (#15275526) Homepage
      Even easier, if you've got the stones for it: be a man.

      Think of employment as an economist does: it is a kind of marketplace in which you sell your labor. Any time you don't sell is your leisure time. Every day you go to work you are deciding to sell some of your labor to a particular employer.

      On an ongoing basis you work, and on that basis you employer incurs a liability TO YOU. When they write out the check, they pay off that acrued liability. In fact, you are extending them credit terms of two weeks, basically. Oh, and they also usually incur a vacation liability to you. That is the extent of who owes who.

      Employment is almost always at will. So beyond the acrued payroll and vacation time and possibly contractual obligations, nobody owes anybody anything really. You are free to go. They are free to let you go.

      Your employer understands that there is a marketplace in which you can sell your services. Your resume on a web site is completely natural when you understand the economics of the situation. They may "not be happy" but who cares? If an employer would actually fire you for being in the job market there's a serious problem anyway. Are they afraid you're underpaid? Are they afraid you're unhappy? Frankly, any time would be a great time for them to fix that. The fact is that if a better offer comes along the rational choice is to go elsewhere, and they should know that.

      Bottom line is, don't be a wuss. There are always other jobs.

      In fact, I think everyone would be better off as contractors. Then the reality of the situation would be understood more clearly by both sides.

      -- John.

      • Re:Easy. (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Monkeys!!! ( 831558 )
        If you act like a resource, don't be suprised when you are treated like on.
        • If you act like a resource, don't be suprised when you are treated like on.
          Very pithy and catchy, but completely wrong. As an employee, you are by definition a *resource* whether you think that's a "degrading" term or not.

      • Re:Easy. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Zadaz ( 950521 )
        I'll see that. I worked as a contractor for so long that I generally got jobs on word of mouth. Since then I've proceeded to start my own companies, so I wouldn't know what the hell I'd put on a resume now. And unless there's a good reason, I hire contractors exclusively. We have less bullshit between us and we understand each other's goals.

        From what I can tell of how people look for jobs, I can't believe anyone ever gets one!

        It makes me sad to see how pathetic people are about looking for jobs. The o

    • Re:Easy. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by plover ( 150551 ) * on Saturday May 06, 2006 @01:56AM (#15275622) Homepage Journal
      Most employers don't hire by searching resumes on the web anyway.

      Ummm...the HR person responsible for bringing me job applicants to interview seems to spend his life trolling monster.com. And I work for one of the largest private employers in my state.

      The amazing thing is that he brings me very few "duds". Most of the people who make it this far really seem to be as sharp as their resumes claim, and I'd say I've given him a thumbs up on over 75% of them. Not that we've hired them all, but the ones we have gotten have been really good.

    • Re:Easy. (Score:4, Informative)

      by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @06:16AM (#15276135) Homepage Journal
      Not sure how you feel about monster, but one benefit they do offer is that they can hide both your name and your current employers name(though the job description is still there if you want it of course) to all employers if you make your resume searchable. The employers who like your resume then can use monster to contact you and you can send the "unprotected" resume from there.
      • Step one: find out what services your company uses.

        It isn't that hard in many industries to determine who an anonymous resume is from- just listing your alma matter/year and experience can give away a lot of information.

        I was amazed to have an hr person identify three people in my company that were actively looking for jobs. The resumes looked good- like they had relevant experience. There wasn't any stand-out information, but just from school, employment dates, and cities they knew exactly who it was!

        Th

  • According to an Employment Advocate I know... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:12PM (#15275107)
    ...If you are thinking of "moving on", do not ask your current employer to match any offer made by anybody else: the reasoning being that even though they may consider you worth paying a little more to keep right now, they'll also consider you disloyal and a potential future problem. It's a fast track to being marginalised and finding your name at the top of the down-sizing list. Either take the new job, or silently stick with your existing postion.

  • Mindset (Score:5, Insightful)

    by miyako ( 632510 ) <miyako AT gmail DOT com> on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:14PM (#15275115) Homepage Journal
    I should preface this comment with the fact that I'm only 22, and barely in the "real world" myself- so remember that although I may have no idea of what I'm talking about from experience, I think what I'm going to infer does make sense- and perhaps someone who has seen more of the world can validate or invalidate my ideas. That said, here goes:
    Before the advent of sites such as Monster.com, etc. job hunting was a fairly active pursuit. It involved looking at potentially interested companies- sending in your resume to them, etc. Now days, job "hunting" can be much more benign. The fact is that it's quite reasonable to be perfectly content with ones job, and not actively seeking a new employer, but still to have your resume online 'incase something better comes along'. In fact, I would be that many of the people who's resumes were posted on Monster.com had posted them there before they got their current position.
    It seems that the optimal solution is really to just get Managers/HR drones to realize this and to not associate running across someones resume online with the idea that they are actively searching for new employment.
    If HR still doesn't like it (especially if where you work is an 'At Will' employment place), then I would politely inform them that- if they are worried about you leaving then they should consider negotiating a contract for your exclusive employement, and if you are able to find mutually acceptable terms, then you will remove your resume.
    • For being a youngling of only twenty two years, you're pretty bright. I wouldn't give HR an ultimatum, though, because once you're hired they're irrelevant. An HR department that other departments who to hire and fire, is an HR company that's grossly overstepping its bounds.

      HR once told my boss that they were concerned about a certain telecommuting employee. They didn't like telecommuting, and were concerned that she wasn't really working. Since she happened to be THE most productive employee in engineering

  • Solution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by catwh0re ( 540371 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:14PM (#15275118)
    A feasible solution is to not add your current employer to your resume.

    Then if you're current employer comes across your resume, you can dismiss it with "it's from when I was looking before this job". The obvious flaw is that if you've been in your job for a great number of years, then it's not a very solid story (or an adequet resume for that matter.)

    Alternatively keep your resume on an external website, (which can always be current), it allows you to monitor and traffic who visits your resume, as well as say, block the IP range of your current employer/their chosen recruitment company.

    • If they are bothering to go to your external website rather than just looking on Monster.com, etc, then they almost certainly did a Google search for your name... your website is right there in the google cache.

      • If they are bothering to go to your external website rather than just looking on Monster.com, etc, then they almost certainly did a Google search for your name... your website is right there in the google cache.

        That's fine -- make it so that the page says, "I'm no longer looking. If you found this as a result of a search on google or something, looking for a resume, their information is out of date. Hopefully, it will refresh eventually."

        Doesn't help at all if the HR department checks from home though!

  • On Posting Resumes to a Website (Score:3, Informative)

    by sesshomaru ( 173381 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:15PM (#15275119) Journal
    There are unscrupulous employment agencies out there that will do the following:

    1. Collect resumes posted to the Web on common job sites.

    2. Submit them to employers with their contact information replacing yours.

    3. Not tell you about it unless they get a bite.

    4. Contact you about the job if they do get a bite, but not tell you any of the above.

    Personally, I don't like the idea of any old person having access to my resume. It's too much information to give out anonymously. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a "passive" way to get a job. You have to go through the work of contacting people, by mail or Email yourself, rather that tossing your resume out there and hoping for a bite. This isn't the 90's after all, the job market sucks. (Sigh... I remember companies giving away Palms just for accepting an interview. Oh well, I made out pretty well myself, until the crash...)

    • Yes, there are lots of bad recruiters out there. I got so upset with the incompetence and wasted time from bad recruiters, that I started a website to track who's good, and who's bad. Recruiter-Rater [zhrodague.net] lets you find and rate technical recruiters -- before you send your resume. Think of it as a public access recruiter database, without any marketing information. Users are free to post recruiters, post comments, and of course, rate them.

  • Free Market. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "How do we, as employees looking to change jobs, protect ourselves from possible discovery, and even worse, retribution?"

    Free market. You can sell yourself with the same degree of freedom that he shops for employees.

    Offer to curtail your freedom, if he curtails his. Bet he'll not bite.

    • You can sell yourself with the same degree of freedom that he shops for employees.

      Offer to curtail your freedom, if he curtails his. Bet he'll not bite.

      Difference is most people can only handle one full time job. While employers can handle many full time employees. They're studs like that. :P

      What I'd probably do is keep my resume and such on my own portfolio-style website, which will be around regardless whether I'm employed or unemployed. It's more passive that way.

      - shazow

  • Use privacy options (Score:5, Informative)

    by ghee22 ( 781277 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:33PM (#15275182)
    Careerbuilder, Dice.com, Monster.com all have privacy options. One I use goes is similar to this: "keep my resume searchable but hide my name, phone number, email address, and my current employer's name"

    So how do future employers contact you? They use the contact job seeker option on the website, such as Dice.com, and Dice would then forward the email to you. It is then up to you unveil your identity when replying back to the employer.

    What you can do to further your privacy is use a new email address that doesn't have your name in it to inquire more about the job opportunity.

    Good luck!

  • Easy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Konster ( 252488 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:37PM (#15275195)
    The easy way to defuse the situation before it ever starts is to post the resumes of your company's leadership...then leak a little blurb to the local rag from a payphone...with any luck scandal will engulf your workplace allowing you to do whatever you want.

  • Trolling? (Score:5, Funny)

    by cammoblammo ( 774120 ) <cammoblammo@TOKYOgmail.com minus city> on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:39PM (#15275207)
    Umm, isn't the word 'trawling?'

    Then again, I'd love to mod my employer down...

  • Semi-relevent story (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Friday May 05, 2006 @11:46PM (#15275232)
    Well, it's not entirely related to this story, but I figured I'd share a little experience I had. In Feb of 2004, I was laid off. I was in the middle of creating some artwork that I was posting on a web-forum for others to watch the progress on. So, the goal of that piece became to make it ready to throw on my demo reel so I could seek work. I even named a couple of places I was gunning for. Unfortunately, it didn't look as though I was going to finish that piece as soon as I would have like, so I left the thread there and moved on to other stuff.

    One year and 3 days later, happily employed, I found a little time one night to resume that piece. Once satisified, I posted the image. Unfortunately, I had forgotten to set my alarm that night. I overslept the next day. When I finally arrived at work, my boss was real happy to see me. You see, this forum I was posting artwork to was the exact same forum that he discovered me with. He read these February posts about gunning for a job at these two other places and became concerned. That, coupled with my lateness to work, gave his imagination a lot to work with. By the time I got there,though, he had discovered the YEAR of the post, and a good laugh was had by all.

    There's no real moral to this story unless you seek it. It's just my own little anecdotal evidence that one should be careful about what he or she says on the net. This may seem like common sense, but it is funny how these little things can nip you in the rear. In my case, it was totally accidental.

    This probably isn't all that relevent to the story. It might have been a more useful post in another story recently about somebody getting in trouble at work over something found in a search engine. No offense taken if this is considered off-topic, but yeah, employeers can see you on the net. Behave.
  • this "problem" is more a result of the mentality of what employment really means. employer / employee relationships are another example of a relationship typically structured as dominance and heirarchy -- which (across society) are breaking down because of increased ease in mass communication. when enough people figure out what's going on - they don't want to play this game.

    • Yep. You've fallen into this trap if you find yourself being socially deferential to your employer on your off-time. Do you expect your plumber to kiss your ass when you pass him on the street? Then your employer shouldn't expect you to kiss his there, either.

      I'm always wary of companies that tout their culture as resembling a "family". What that really means is that you, as an employee, are now a child again, and your bosses are Mommy and Daddy. A lot of people - presumably uncomfortable with their own adu

  • Been there, done that - ish... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dJCL ( 183345 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @12:29AM (#15275402) Homepage
    I had been looking for a new job at my last employer for about 6 months before I left(every employee knew, except the owner, and it was because of his personality that I wanted to leave).

    One of the huge tech firms in Ottawa was having a career fair(Cognos) and I decided to wander over to see if they needed any techs. While waiting in line I got interviewed by the local paper(the Citizen) and my quote was included in the article along with my name. Of course this gets back to my boss about 2 weeks later, via one of his clients who recognized my name(never found out who, don't really care).

    Boss could not do anything, it was on my time(weekend) and my personal business. It pissed him off, but if he did _anything_ it would have put him in a very bad situation. Firing me would have been without cause, I was already in the lowest job in the company, (with coresponding pay) and I basically could not be touched for it.

    As in this case, maybe your boss should be wondering why so many of their employees are looking to get out.

    Now, I have a new job, and a 25% increase in pay. I really love the part where I hit my yearly review at my old job and they gave me 0% pay raise! When I left that company they had to hire three people to replace me.

    I'll stop ranting now, enjoy!
    • As in this case, maybe your boss should be wondering why so many of their employees are looking to get out.

      Precisely.

      I can see how an employer would be offended at an employee idly looking at other potential jobs if we had, say, the old Japanese job-for-life system... but when an employer can toss you out on your ear with little notice, why shouldn't the reverse be true?
    • haha. Similar story for me in parts. I was doing IT work for a company and constantly got ragged on for not being professional and not being able to live up to their high standards so instead of taking it, I changed jobs to a programmer. To make things short, they hired three guys to 'replace' me one after the next, the network's in shambles, and the fall-guy just got canned.

      Lesson to the Managers out there: Just because we're not always 'professional' many of us can get the job done. The new guy made subst
    • I had a sort of similar experience to you.

      I was working as helpdesk/sysadmin/security/all-around-IT-guy for a Univ dept while attending school. I pulled 30-40hrs/wk despite being in classes and such. When I graduated, I asked to be made full-time. I was their first IT person ever that would service MacOS, Windows and *NIX. I often went well above and beyond my original charter (answer emails and fix problems) by building an automated helpdesk system, built a new computer lab, often worked with profs to

  • I could care less... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @01:40AM (#15275585)
    I have my resume posted on all the major job search sites and on my personal website. If the company I'm working for wants to make hay about my resume being available online, I'll tell them what I told the last guy: I'll find a better job, make more money, and be happy at your expense because you let a productive employee walk out the door. I'm not even hiding the fact that I'm laying down the legal groundwork to start a part-time consulting business that I'll take full-time in five years. Your career is your responsibility. If you let your job hold you back, you have no one to blame but yourself.

  • My boss (Score:5, Funny)

    by Brandybuck ( 704397 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @01:51AM (#15275609) Homepage Journal
    My boss usually asks me where I'm sending my resume and if they have any management positions open...
  • ...assure your present employers that you will allow them to match any offers you might get from anyone else. That way they don't have to lose you unless they actually can't afford you. If they don't understand why you might be looking to improve your position--you don't want to be working there, and you should step up your job search!

    Of course, if you hate your job, and wouldn't stay there even if they matched other offers, then you've got a problem. But again, you should step up your job search.

    And if

  • Screw 'em (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Keen Anthony ( 762006 )
    There is one truly universal rule governing employment in the United States, the "at-will" doctrine [wikipedia.org]. Just as your employer is free to fire you at anytime minus a contractual obligation, you are free to quit your employment at anytime minus a contractual obligation. There are only a few laws at Federal level protecting you against wrongful termination or harassment with the purpose of forcing you to quit, and those few laws are related mostly to whistle-blowing and discrimination based on race, gender, and d
    • > Just as your employer is free to fire you at anytime minus a
      > contractual obligation, you are free to quit your employment at
      > anytime minus a contractual obligation.

      In the US you are always free to quit your employment at any time regardless of what your contract says. Requiring you to work against your will would be involuntary servitude, which is forbidden by the Constitution.
  • After all the deal goes both ways. Would you be happy if you find out that your manager behind you back has been advertising your job on monsterboard?

    No? Then why should your employer be pleased that you are looking to replace him?

    Do onto other as you wish to be done onto yourselve. Or something like that.

    For whatever this may mean you and your employer have a relationship. You both expect certain things of each other. The employer expects you to turn up each day and that he can plan his business countin

  • Today's word is "Trawling" (Score:3, Informative)

    by nagora ( 177841 ) * on Saturday May 06, 2006 @06:29AM (#15276164)
    "Trolling" is Internet slang for trying to prompt a reaction using a (probably insincere) controversial stance. "Trawling" means to carefully go through something, often with a net, looking for some hidden resource or information.

    If your boss wants to troll job websites then let him/her; s/he will eventually get banned and then you can post your CV without trouble.

    TWW

  • I was an HR Recruiter. WAS. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NevarMore ( 248971 ) on Saturday May 06, 2006 @07:09AM (#15276236) Homepage Journal
    Last semester I interned at a computer consulting firm as a human resources recruiting assistant. The job was far from what I wanted to do, but I was in a specialzed political program and they felt that getting the CS major away from the keyboard would be more in line with that. I did learn a lot that I would not have learned if I were in a software development role, but I am certainly NOT an HR person. Bear with me, this is all very important for job seekers and does tie into the topic.

    Anyway heres how it goes when a company doesn't do all/any of its own HR. They have a list, sometimes exclusive other times not, of HR/Consulting firms that they send job requests to. Those requests specify the length of the contract, the salary range, a brief (VERY) job description, and desired skills. It then became my bosses job to hand me that piece of paper from which I had to parse out a monster (we ONLY used monster for some reason) search string and start calling people.

    First off we had an implied policy that we didn't bother with confidential resumes. Send an email and then leave it. Our response rate from those was exceedingly low, single-digit percentages.

    We did have an easier time than many consulting contracting firms because nearly all of our contracts were temp-to-perm and my employer had farily good benefits. The way that works is a new hire was an employee of ours for 3 to 6 months, recieving pay and benefits from us while working for our client. At the end of that term, if the client was happy the client could then hire that employee on as thier own without paying us a finders fee. My employer got a (significant) cut, our clients got good people, and good people got full time, permanent jobs.

    That sounds all well and good but human resources is not some place I can work and feel good about it. I had to look at a resume, review the stated skills in comparision to the desired skills, look at the employment history and see if/how those skills were actually used, and if that matched then I made a call (resumes with phone numbers get priority, because we can get you right away) and talked to the candidate to see if they were really interested.

    Now I get to take a job description that was less than a paragraph with some notes/comments from my boss and tell (NEVER sell) the candidate about the position. Then if they were interested I had to ask questions and see if this person really had what we wanted for the job. It was hard because my boss (and by implication our clients) had very specific requriements, there was no room for 'I think this guy would be good' I had to take the vagaries of resumes and HR talk and salary requirements and quantify them. My coworkers (Hi Jeff, Julie, Lee, and Steve!) were great people and could handle that. It is very difficult.

    Now coming back to the point, when we saw a resume of on of our people. We DID NOT CARE. If anything it was a good guide, as I'm reading the first few parts of the resume "Oh wow this guy would be perfect....because he is already doing (job) for (client).". I usually printed those out and used them as examples to compare to other resumes.

    If you are looking for something better and not serious about going to a new job, you are wasting my time and yours. If you are "seeing whats out there" then you are a liability, it looks bad for us when an employee quits in the middle of a contract, it wastes my time, it wastes our clients time, and it shows an apalling lack of responsibility on your part. We were not hiring short-term contractors who were looking for adventure and new jobs every 3 months, we were looking for reliable, competent, full-time, well paid, permanent employees. If you want to see whats out there tell us when we call, we'll tell you what is out there, but we have other shit to do. Don't sit there chatting us up.

    If you honestly are looking for a new job then I offer you the following advice. If you have an itemized list of skills, programming languages, apps etc. on your resume you need to be able to te
  • I have been privy to a few discussions about "problem" employees. A few times it was mentioned that they found the employee's resume online. My question has always been, if we are allowed to post job listings then why are we not allowing our employees to do similar?

    One thing a lot of us do is chase down the employment offerings our company posts. See, its a game because the postings are hidden by going through consulting and contracting firms. By close examination of the needs and general area given we
  • Hire and fire is a two edged blade. What kind of loyality do you expect from a worker who sees his peers come and go?

    It's a matter of give and take. Yes, my resume is up there. Actually, no, I'm not looking for a job. But if someone comes along, pays more, offers more benefits and a more interesting job... How about my job here when someone applies with a better qualification who demands less? Would you fire me?

    This is exactly what happened to me when I got my current job. I was working for a large German c
  • Duh. When was the last time your company hired someone off the internet over someone, similarly qualified, who dropped off their resume in person?
  • Given the "loyalty" that companies give to their employees, why shouldn't we post our resumes, or leave them up all the time? If they want to keep us, they need to give us incentive to stay (good work environment, interesting work, etc.).
  • I'm interested to know how folks here have handled job applications which require your SSN (or the posting requires your SSN on your resume) and then want you to email these materials to them. Until now, I have said in my cover letter "I'm unable to provide my SSN over email for security reasons" and in most cases attempted to contact the employer by phone. But I'm not sure this is enough. I assume the HR people who get the applications see the lack of an SSN and toss it in the trash. How does one best
  • If your employees are out searching for another job, then they are not happy with where they are. If the employer really cared about the employee, then they would be trying to figure out why the employee wanted to leave, and not punish them or fire them. If you find more than one of your employees out looking, then there is definately something wrong with the company.

    I'm looking. Why? Because noone gets fired where I work and half these people should have been fired. But then again, the company does no

  • This way, I'm not bothered by spammers, currrent employers, or those jerks who cruise Monster.com trying to lure talent ot their own agency.

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