Store Your Own Juice 415
sfeinstein writes "Power companies using dynamic pricing models to charge more for electricity during hours of peak usage is nothing new. Now, however, one company has decided to take advantage of this by using technology to buy (and store) capacity when rates are low and use that capacity when rates are at their highest." From the article: "The device, called GridPoint Protect, is the size of a small file cabinet and connects to the circuitbreaker panel. (The company also offers a lower-capacity version designed for homes, which costs $10,000.) A built-in computer powered by a Pentium chip will make intelligent purchase decisions, buying when prices are low, then storing the electricity for later use. That will make it possible to run your company during the workday with cheaper electricity that you purchased at 3 A.M."
Greenies have had this choice for a while. (Score:5, Informative)
And of course, even if you don't have a battery-based storage system, scheduling your laundry to run in the middle of the night is smart. You get cheaper electricity (assuming your utility meters it that way), and you ease the burden on the wastewater treatment system by not dumping your effluent into it during peak demand periods.
Re:Nice idea, but the cost... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nice idea, but the cost... (Score:3, Informative)
About the chip, you can use cheap p2 chips that take 10 watts. It's actually not completely stupid. Maybe have the controller monitor prices to take advantage of on-the-fly pricing. The plant I work at pays continually variable pricing. Intel even has info [intel.com] for embedded systems.
Re:How does it know? (Score:2, Informative)
When your schedule agrees with the power company's (Score:4, Informative)
I'm a customer of the Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power. They don't advertise the fact very widely but they have a three-tier time-sensitive rate structure for residences, which is optional. I signed up for it. They came out, replaced my electro-mechanical power meter with a computerized model, and I was off and running.
No one's home during the day. That's key. From 1-5pm my electric rate is about double what it is from 8pm-10am. But since no one's home then, I make out like a bandit. My electric bill fell by one-third while everyone else's was going up.
If your place is empty during the day you should see if you have such a rate where you live. No need for power-storing file cabinets if so.
Re:With intel inside (Score:1, Informative)
Gridpoint in a gridlock (Score:4, Informative)
What a stupid way to sell a big UPS. As they already comment you need a power bill in the thousands $ before you save money but the specs tell me that this thing can only supply 1KW for 7 - 10 hours. Therefore it is only capable to run 2 PC's (oh make that one because it already has one itself) and a few lights. I consider that nothing compared to what you normally use if you have a thousand + power bill.
Let's run some numbers:
Say you save 50% on a power unit (1 unit = 1Kwh). Assume a unit costs $0.20
The unit can store 7 Kwh which is worth in savings a massive $0.70 per day.
I am going to be generous and allow these savings to run through the weekend thus saving $4.90 per week or $255 per year.
Based on $10000 that is a return on investment of 2.5% per annum
CNN Money reported: "The company features an all-star board of advisors, including tech guru Esther Dyson and Bill Bradley, the former presidential candidate and longtime member of the Senate Energy Committee."
Whoooaaaaa ha ha ha ha, these clowns can't even count. Yeah, I'll have the stainless steel door upgrade. Ha ha ha, this thing is a stupid investment that will have no practical benefit unless you want a UPS or solar power solution in which case there are much better and cheaper alternatives.
No wonder sensible USA energy policies are non existent. What a morons.
Re:With intel inside (Score:4, Informative)
I went to their web site, and your $10,000 doesn't include batteries.
All you get is a rectifier and switch, that will, if you connect enough betteries to it, give you 1 kw for 10 hours. So you can only expect to run a couple of computers off this. Nothing else. For less than $2,000 you can get a 5000 watt inverter that will put out 230 volts. Connect that to the same set of batteries. Plug your computers into it. Charge it up at night. Run your boxes off it during the day. You've now saved $8,000 + the cost of an installation into your mains box, and its a lot easier to maintain.
Re:Savings? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see how you can squeeze 576 megajoules (16*3600*10000) into something the size of a filing cabinet using lead-acid batteries. According to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], the batteries alone would weigh 5333kg.
One other critical thing is that for every joule you pump into a lead-acid battery, you can only get about 0.7 joules out. In addition, rectifiers/inverters for that power range are usually only about 90% efficient. If the difference between peak and non-peak power in your area is less than 50%, this device couldn't save you money if they gave it to you.
Speaking of Wikipedia, they have a good writeup on how to store energy. [wikipedia.org] If it was as cheap or easy as they'd like you to believe, the power companies would do more of it for you and pocket the savings of not maintaining standby generators.
this is a home solar PV system... (Score:1, Informative)
Not trying to really rain on what these guys have,I think everyone should have a setup like this (I have a small one, neat), but this is serious wheel reinventing here, for a lot of money.
I guess for the technically disinclined with some spare change to burn, it would be OK. You would still most likely and legally need an electrician to do the installation to the panel or sub panel, and *maybe* the local e inspector "permit-ission"
It's still better to give your local alternative energy guy the business, and you will wind up with a lot more stored amps for the buck, and will be lots more easier to upgrade the set up.
Exploding flywheels (Score:4, Informative)
Someone's covered that. From Wikipedia's Flywheel energy storage [wikipedia.org] article:
Re:Storing juice? (Score:5, Informative)
Down here in the oven(New Orleans) our power bills skyrocket during the summer because of added cooling costs from the AC and fridge. As a consequence, the price of power is actually lowered to allow people to survive. There are even laws in place that prevent the power company from cutting off power due to unpaid bills because people can die without AC(it's a sad world we live in that people depend on this so heavily). During the winter months our power costs more because of lowered usage. This past winter, our rates actually were lowered a bit because it was such a hot winter. I know this seems counter-intuitive but it is in fact the case. Supposing that the end user had the capability to store very substantial amounts of power during the summer, when rates are lower and therefore used less power during the winter(a very hypothetical case), then the prices during the winter would increase because of the lowered usage. So this system seems highly worthless to me.
Re:Wastes energy? (Score:2, Informative)
Usually the main power supply is a big plant with cheap fuel like nuclear or coal (usually with a touch of solar and wind thrown in). At peak times, that power source is often supplemented by another power plant with more expensive fuel, like oil-fired or natural gas turbines. So yes, the system does gain something by converting off-peak power into peak power.
That doesn't mean the whole thing is necessarily a good idea. It just means that there are arguments for it as well as against it.
Especially nukes (Score:5, Informative)
A while back I remembered seeing proposals for storing excess electricity during off-peak hours in huge supercooled superconducting storage rings, but I haven't heard any more about it in years, and don't even know how such a scheme would work.
Re:Especially nukes (Score:5, Informative)
It's possible to bring up a gas turbine in seconds if you're prepared for it; you leave the turbine spinning but with no actual load.
There's also a special type of hydroelectric plant called a pumped storage power station. What you do is to connect two lakes at different levels via a set of turbines. When you have excess power on the grid, you pump water uphill; when you need power, you let it run downhill. They don't have a great deal of capacity, but you can bring them online from cold in only a slightly longer time than a hot gas turbine. The one I've visited, the Ben Cruachan power station [wikipedia.org], can generate 440MW for 22 hours and can come online in two minutes.
A while back I remembered seeing proposals for storing excess electricity during off-peak hours in huge supercooled superconducting storage rings, but I haven't heard any more about it in years, and don't even know how such a scheme would work.
The problem with superconducting storage rings is that if anything goes wrong all the energy gets liberated as heat... very, very suddenly. If you had a storage ring the size of the pumped storage station described above, you'd end up dissapating 6x10^11 joules of energy... about the equivalent of 150 kilotonnes. Yum!