New Orleans Tech Chief Vows WiFi Net Here to Stay 213
breckinshire writes "After Hurricane Katrina last year, New Orleans set up a city-wide wireless network to encourage businesses to return and assist in recovery. The New Orleans technology chief recently said that he intends to make the network permanent, in spite of state law and the disapproval of telecoms."
Go N'Orleans! (Score:4, Funny)
But I just gotta know - is this a Chocolate Wifi network?
Re:Go N'Orleans! (Score:3, Informative)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-66780647
Comments on Ray Nagin's appology:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/17/nagin.city/ [cnn.com]
Buoys? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Buoys? (Score:2)
No, they'll be strapping them on gulls.
Chris Mattern
Opportunity Knocking (Score:5, Interesting)
What the city should propose to do is use the current emergency services systems (police, fire, etc.) in parallel with the wireless equipment. This would provide a variety of systems to use if one fails in the event of another hurricane. A majority if not all the equipment came from Cisco, [cisco.com] which provides a software solution called LMR Over IP. [cisco.com] This would ensure a highly redundant solution, just incase another event like hurricane Katrina happens again. This is a far better solution than having equipment sitting there useless, or removing it entirely.
Re:Opportunity Knocking (Score:2)
Re:Opportunity Knocking (Score:3, Insightful)
Afterall, that's why DARPA came up with the idea for the Internet in the first place: If one communication link gets taken out, there are still other links to communicate with.
Re:Opportunity Knocking (Score:2)
Re:Opportunity Knocking (Score:2)
No, and it wasn't designed to survive a nuclear war either.
The ARPANET was designed to allow researchers to communicate and share resources.
Re:Opportunity Knocking (Score:2)
He did a talk about this at Spring VON (Score:5, Interesting)
In a way, it's an 'up-the-telcos' soft of move. And who can blame him?
I'm for the citizens of NO, not incumbent telcos with rotten attitudes. Maybe
Re:He did a talk about this at Spring VON (Score:2)
When I move back...I'll go back to my Cox business connection. I have servers to run, etc...and need that extra bandwidth!
Re:He did a talk about this at Spring VON (Score:3, Informative)
Q: (to the effect of)How would you respond to telco attempts to outlaw muni WiFi networks?
A: "Physically"
Re:He did a talk about this at Spring VON (Score:2)
I dunno. I can kinda see the telco's point of view.
City, through some combination of incompetence, corruption, and bad luck, gets hit with a major disaster.
Telcos, in a fit of generosity (no doubt inspired by the PR value of "giving something back to the community"), donate lots of WiFi gear to the city to assist in the rebuilding efforts by setting up a temporary ad-hoc network.
City then announces that they plan on using the donated gea
Re:He did a talk about this at Spring VON (Score:2)
I don't know who donated the wireless mesh network - but I doubt it was the telcos.
Heck, the place I work for is being sold a new VOIP system by the monster phone company, and they are going to hook the various sites up via T-1 lines ..
My Irony Asplode (Score:5, Insightful)
Even as a free-market kind of guy, the doublespeak here really makes my head spin. In the name of fair competition... we have to eliminate anything that might outcompete with $5.99/minute pay-card-based WiFi providers.
Then again, welcome to Newspeak verb conjugation 101:
I am erotic. You are kinky. They are perverts.
We protect. Our allies enforce. Our enemies oppress.
Government appropriates. Telecoms lobby. WiFi users steal.
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Hehehe...I gotta agree with you on this one. My favorite story is how Tiger stadium got built at LSU. He could not get funds for a stadium, but, he could get funds for a new dorm. So, he had a dorm built, that was "stadium shaped". The outside of the stadium housed dorm rooms back when I went there...they've since moved the students out
Re: (Score:2)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:5, Informative)
You hear this argument all over the place. I think it is time to debunk it. The telcos may have (and I emphasize MAY) laid them to begin with but in this case it is federal dollars paying for replacement of ALL the infrastructure (including the telco lines). The program responsible for it in FEMA is called Infrastructure (commonly called "Public Assistance"). In a normal disaster the federal split is 75% federal and 25% state. In a catastrophic disaster that drops to 90% fed 10% state. In the case of Katrina even that has been waived with the federal paying 100%.
PA pays for doing public buildings, public services such as power & communications, roads, water and waste water treatment, and debris removal. There are whole categories that they cover. It isn't the telcos laying anything in New Orleans AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE so please stop spreading this little white lie.
B.
DISCLAIMER: I was previously employed by FEMA but now work for my State doing the same thing.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Why not federal? I am completely in favor of governments providing these types of services. In the "information age", communications are as necessary for commerce as is transportation. I see this infrastructure in the same light as the public highway system. Imagine what that would be if it were run by private industry. The free ma
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2, Informative)
I don't have to imagine it -- I've seen it. Back in the 90s the Orange County Board of Directors approved of a plan to build a toll road that cuts through San Joaquin Hills, then a pristine California wilderness area. The toll road was touted as a completely privatized, non-tax funded roadway that would quickly pay for itself and become a model for similar toll roads
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
They do. It is call laws and regulations supposedly run by the FCC. The problem with the FCC though is it is a political agency comprised of industry stooges. The revolving door between the FCC and the industry they are supposed to regulate is appalling.
B.
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
It is impossible to insure phone lines so your statement is nonsensical.
B.
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
That being said, I'm all in favor of projects like this. If a service is important enough, government should go ahead and provide it, not wait for somebody to figure out a way to make a profit selling this.
I even agree that the telecom
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
I disagree with this premise. You (theoretically) have an industry that is regulated already with no ill effects to them.
Right now the industry as a whole is failing in providing broadband (they are holding hearings today and tomorrow about thi
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
I still disagree with the premise that government sponsored infrastructure will undercut private. The forces that control public offerings (political as you say) can be influenced either way and more often than not it is in the direction of the private concern. After all, private companies means jobs and less public money spent on this type of thing.
B.
Re:My Irony Asplode (Score:2)
But maintaining a free market isn't the only priority here. Having affordable internet access for everybody is an important social concern. (Or, in the case of New Orleans, any internet acc
Law (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Law (Score:5, Informative)
FTFLA:
A growing number of cities and towns want to develop their own public Wi-Fi networks. But they face stiff opposition from telecom and cable providers.
You will find that there are several state laws [cio.com] on the books as well as US House [loc.gov] and Senate bills [loc.gov] pending that would prohibit or limit a city's ability to provide WiFi services. To make things fun, there is a competing bill [loc.gov] in the Senate that would make it illegal to make it illegal to make a law that would prohibit cities from offering services (!!=1).
Our political system amazes me...if we could only harness all that wasted energy.
Re:Law (Score:2)
From what I understand, they haven't had to turn the furnaces on in Washington D.C. for years, since Congress provides plenty of forced-air heating.
Re:Law (Score:2)
What if the government decided that it was going to provide coffee - an essential to at least as many people as the internet - for free - and use taxes I was paying to do it.
I suppose when the villain is some 'evil telco' that makes you wait on hold for twenty hours, it seems a little more 'right' to screw them on the huge investments they had to make to get the last mile lines in place. But it's still the same.
First, I understand it is your business so you may have a skewed perspective, but coffee i
Re:Law (Score:2)
Re:Law (Score:2)
wow... you said that with such a straight face...
Re:Law Got Passed Because Gov't Monopolies Are Bad (Score:2)
Re:Law Got Passed Because Gov't Monopolies Are Bad (Score:2)
Re:Law Got Passed Because Gov't Monopolies Are Bad (Score:2)
Landmark case (Score:3)
If it's handled improperly, and gets shut down, it will be a serious blow to any in roads already established toward providing free, community wireless projects. This would be a terrible crime, and once again, a reason the US would fall further behind in the broadband arena. The cable companies and Bell's already have an effective monopoly over much of the US, simply because they are the only carrier/provider in the area offering Broadband, and you simply can't go to someone else for that. Wireless takes away this monopoly, and boy are they pissed.
Re:Landmark case (Score:2)
I'm guessing that's not going to be the case. Note that this law is not a constraint on corporations or private citizens; it is a constraint on a political subdivision (New Orleans) by a sovereign state (Loisiana). The States have almost unlimited authority to constrain what their political subdivisions are allowed to do, far more a
Re:Landmark case (Score:2)
If it's handled improperly, and gets shut down, it will be a serious blow to any in roads already established toward providing free, community wireless projects.
You shouldn't let fear of precedent prevent you from fighting for what's right.
Re:Landmark case (Score:2)
Re:Landmark case (Score:2)
In most areas, for broadband, you may have none or more of have the following choices.
1. Cablemodem from whatever cable company has the geographic monopoly in your area, assuming they provide service at your location. You are also forced to either subscribe to 'basic cable TV service', or pay a monthly 'no cable TV service fee' (that is usually about the same amount as
Re:Landmark case (Score:2)
The only way to avoid enriching one monopoly or another is to go wireless, which has fa
Old Lesson (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that superior quality necessarily protects against superior lobbying...
This is a Great Oppurtunity for Vonage! (Score:2, Funny)
Politics and business have never (Score:4, Insightful)
The trouble here is not that a city government can operate a WiFi or telecommunications network, but that if they did, it would remove the stranglehold that the telecoms companies have over the consumers. That is what is really at stake. Imagine what would happen if we all opened up our APs and started running large mesh networks over telecom company pipes? If you think NO is a problem, there would be calls for federally mandated closure of unsecured wireless APs.
Personally, I thought this is what the free market was supposed to be all about... competition to drive innovation and self-regulate cost structures. Of course there is always that unfair competitive practices thing, but how is making it illegal for anyone to compete 'fair competition' ????
I'm willing to bet that an 'open source' style mesh network can run for quite an extended period of time on simply the money that has been spent lobbying to keep NO from running a metro WiFi network. Perhaps its time to review, in public forums, the costs incurred by metropolitan NO on behalf of telecom companies so they can provide services? Licenses for towers and transmitters are not free, nor are they given away by divine right of the telecom companies. Tit for tat? Maybe its time?
Re:Politics and business have never (Score:2)
Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:4, Interesting)
Sadly, in this day and age, many laws are being passed that are just plain stupid. However, even stupid laws are laws, and it takes a majority of supporters to repeal them.
Instead, it has been acceptable for a minority to willingly break the law, despite the fact that the laws are not going to be repealed. This happens over and over again, and sadly, government procecutors ignore their oaths and duties and allow this criminal activity to continue. Shame on them for their absolute incompetence and failure.
I like the idea of letting New Orleans keep their WIFI. I'm in no position to say that it's a bad thing. But evidently a majority of those in honestly elected office think it is a bad thing and passed a law to prevent it, and so being in a democracy, I have to accept that. That's the deal.
I also think the telecoms are fucked in the head. But that doesn't change the law.
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Breaking the Law is Good. (Score:2)
If the police &/or other enforcement agencies had to go around enforcing every single law on the books, the government would effectively grind to a halt.
Old argument (Score:2)
It is truly scary that government officials like president Lincoln believe that they are above the law. Laws are passed for a reason - for good or for bad, and we have to accept the law as it is, or collectively agree to change the law. Sadly, in this day and age, many laws are being passed that are just plain stupid. However, even stupid laws are laws, and it takes a majority of supporters to repeal them. Instead, it has been acceptable for a minori
Re:Old argument (Score:2)
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the police will refuse to enforce this by not arresting the mayor, that will be even better.
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:2)
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:3, Insightful)
>If the police will refuse to enforce this by not arresting the mayor, that will be even better.
As Gandhi [mkgandhi.org] & MLK [nobelprize.org] demonstrated, it's even better if the police do enforce the law. Going to jail over a stupid, stupid law is a great way of saying "It's a stupid, stupid law" in a way that (a) attracts attention, (b) shows that you really mean it, and (c) gets the law repealed.
Not that I think the mayor's going to the pokey over wi-fi; I'm just saying that it's best if one wishes to break a law, that o
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:2)
"I am above the law!"
Squeak of hair goo as bald spot gets recovered.
But really. I mean New Orleans is not known to be the most uncorrupt place in the planet, although I hear its _much_ better than it used to be. But between this guy, and the Minnesota governor or whoever that was telling the state's employees to "break the law" and buy prescriptions from Canada, is a little strange to me.
Sure, we realize that 80-90% of what they do is just for fun and games, and of course PROFIT! But to me publicly sayin
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear American Revolutionaries,
It dumbfounds me to no extent why you are not obeying our laws like civilized people. For good or for bad, you must accept the authority of the British Crown and English Parliament. Perhaps you can collectively agree to petition us and we might change the law... If we feel like it.
Yours Truly,
King George
Re:Breaking the Law is No Good. (Score:2)
Please stop this stupidity. (Score:3, Insightful)
The hardcore foil-hatters, gamers, file-sharing, and business communities will pay for their connection just because they don't want to touch the gov't tainted systems, want faster ping times, or a bigger pipe to push their data out. I mean, it's only 512 kbps and they're talking about dropping it to 128 kbps. I highly doubt (say, I'm 99% sure) using "free Wi-Fi" is a serious solution for most businesses and a lot of home users in the long run.
So in short, suck it up you penny-pinching bastards. There's no "free Wi-Fi" where I live, so you're still getting my check. Sheesh.
Re:Please stop this stupidity. (Score:2)
If the teleco network only has heavy users, the price goes up because they oversell, counting on these users to even it out.
Re:Please stop this stupidity. (Score:2)
It seems to me (Score:2, Insightful)
We have a service that is sought after by the residents and business people of NO , and we have a provider who is willing to distribute it at a given price. Now granted that price is free and it was at roughly 0 cost to them as the equipment was donated but none the less they are providing a service that the people are after at a price the people like.
Here comes Bell South, etc... who used to have a bunch of customers in NO before a
Land Value Tax (Score:3, Insightful)
They'd get revenue rather than spending revenue and the town would be blanketed with wireless coverage before they could begin to issue their RFQ's to their bribers.
Step Two (Score:2, Funny)
After making the wifi network permanent they will start work on making the levees permanent.
It's good to see they have their priorities straight.
Government monopoly vs. ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Government monopoly vs. ? (Score:2)
Re:Government monopoly vs. ? (Score:2)
Look at the big picture (Score:2)
The proper goal for this would be for there to be some access everywhere, but if you want to be downloading movies in realtime, you have to talk to a higher bandwidth provider.
When planning resources like this you have to ask: How many jobs will the plan create vs. leaving things alone? i.e. If the goverment stays out and lets private enter
New Orleans has approached EarthLink (Score:2, Interesting)
Public Utility (Score:2, Insightful)
Societally, this poses an issue. To be a public utility, everyone must NEED the Internet. If this is so, then many of the 'brick-and-mortar' locations we go to must be replaced with more efficient 'online' locations. This is tricky. As yet, products and services offered online are offered offline. If a basic service (such as bankin
Re: (Score:2)
friends telco have GOT to pay attention to wifi (Score:2)
rollout costs of wi-fi are basically nothing for a sorta-system, and twice that for a 22-1/2 by 6 system... if you're charging five bucks or fifteen bucks a month for the access code, you aren't going to promise 24x7.
it will cost like any other infrastructure if you're going to roll out an FCC-acceptable carrier-class system. but with VoIP in the USB
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to second that one...most of the crack dealers that left are not that technically inclined.
Right now with housing, etc...you cannot live in New Orleans unless you are a productive citizen with a job. There is no tax base there to provide for the welfare freeloaders that have not been able to come back. This isn't a racial thing...is an economic thing. If you can work...you can live in New Orleans. If we can survive this next hurricane season, I think that NOLA will actually be a much nicer place...crime is WAY down, and the state has taken over almost all of the schools in the city. The city has a chance to come back better than before...just hope the politicos don't blow this once in a lifetime chance to rebuild a city.
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:2, Insightful)
I think that while it is a nice period for the working New Orleans, there is no guarantee once the city is back on track that it will stay free from freeloaders. Part of this is the bigger issue of people living on welfare that could work, but that's another discussion entirely. The wifi will be good to have for the working residents, but how long until the speeds drop, the networks deteriorate, and maintinence is not handled correctly?
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well... not really. Rent skyrocketted here. A one bedroom apartment averages about $800 now
I think that NOLA will actually be a much nicer place...crime is WAY down
Sadly, no. Crime is rapidly returning to the city. Give it another month and it will be the same crime rates that we had pre-katrina.
This place pisses me off right now. I have a decent job, but I am struggling to pay rent. The crime is becoming unbelievable again, and half the city still looks like nuclear weapons were tested here. Literally HALF of the citys traffic lights still do not work.
I think the city will come back, but it won't be the paradise people were dreaming about. We will slowly trade the problems we have now with the problems we had before.
Yeah..rebuild lower than sealevel..again.. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:3, Informative)
No one down here left really cares what you are, as long as you are wanting to work and help. I just can't stand all this shit on the radio and tv about people "not having a RIGHT" to come back...anyone has a right...just that like in the old days, you have to work to earn your keep and contribute to society and be worth your weight...
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:2, Informative)
In New Orleans, Burger King is offering $5,000 sign on bonuses. They need the employees that bad. But they can't get people to work there. People can't get houses built. All those welfare lazies could come back to NO and work. But they don't want to.
Basically, it's racist to expect blacks to work, is what you're saying.
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:2, Insightful)
There are just race baiting whiners like you and Cynthia "I get to punch cops 'cos I'm black" McKinney, and all the people who expect everything to be handed to them
Re:Let's be honest... (Score:2, Interesting)
You don't need a huge city with a tremendous bustling population to have wi-fi networks. The city of Flagstaff, Arizona, has lots of free wi-fi, and the population is only around 65,000,... Though it helps to have a major, state-supported University in town, combined with a pretty healthy hotel/hospitality industry,... ;-)
Heck, the hotel & restaurant industry supports the vast majority of Flagstaff's fr
Re:WOW! (Score:2, Funny)
You mean... the strippers have returned to the French Quarter?!? Hallelujah!!!
Re:WOW! (Score:3)
The population that was removed at gunpoint, and kept out at gunpoint? You mean those people who weren't let back into the city until the landlords dumped their furniture out on the street and re-rented the apartments at twice the price? The home owners who are being dispossessed? The people who were told to get stuffed a couple of months ago when their bennies were cut off?
EVERYONE WANTS BACK IN. Those that weren't rich or connected are being robbed as we speak of their pro
Re:WOW! (Score:2)
Yes indeed, it's going to be worse now!
If NOLA wasn't such a crappy place to begin with, you wouldn't have this problem with the "neocons" now, would you?
If your vision of the future of NOLA comes true, how is that any worse than the festering pit of crap that was NOLA to begin with? I use to have to travel to New Orleans a lot
wtf (Score:2)
Re:Abuse (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Abuse (Score:2)
"The fact remains, the person who wants to get online can get online"
Sounds a little contradictory to me - and after they buy their laptop/desktop, how much do you really think it will cost to 'maintain' it? Maybe the odd hard drive every few years, but you dont need to have the latest processor/soundcard/gfxcard in your machine to be able to use the net. That free would be more oriented at poor people sounds reason
Re:Abuse (Score:2)
Re:Abuse (Score:2)
Re:Abuse (Score:2)
Either you are just flamebating, or don't live here. I do.
No one is talking about destroying public schooling....the state has taken it over, and hopefully they can now raise it above dead last in the nation. The schools were horrible here...no one with any money to spare sent their ki
Re:Locustworld are the real heroes here (Score:2)
Re:Security? (Score:2)
Oh no, they cut the hardline, get out of there, its a trap!"
Re:Security? (Score:2)
It is easier to do this with an actual tap, but that's not required. The moral: Alway encrypt your traffic.