UK Government Passes ID Card Bill 306
cowbutt writes "The two houses of the UK government, the elected House of Commons and the House of Lords have agreed a compromise on Labour's ID cards bill, after Conservative peers accepted a Labour amendment. Under the new amendment, anyone renewing a designated document (e.g. passport) will be able to opt-out of getting a card until 2010, but will still have their details put on the National ID Register immediately."
I am not a number, I'm a free man. (Score:5, Funny)
Another one bites the dust. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:4, Informative)
Several states have challenged the Real ID act and plan not to adopt it.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2, Informative)
* technical exception in Pennsylvania, in the case of the alcohol.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, you don't need to spend an additional £90+ for another piece of plastic to cover what you already have.
I don't mind having things like credit cards or passports. I do object to being forced to have an ID card, to the immense cost, and being put on the database that goes with it.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
State-issued, state-controlled, state-maintained form of ID. Standards literally vary from state to state, what with federalism and all. The parent was alluding to a national ID system, the closest to which we have are Social Security cards.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:3, Interesting)
This isn't such a big deal. In my country, it's mandatory to have an ID card, at least since I can remember. I live in a democratic country, that's part of the EU.
The ID card paranoia is an Anglo-Saxon thing. I guess it goes against your traditional concept of personal freedom. In my personal opinion, ID card is quite a useful thing. You'll end up to get used to it, eventually.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
Not to mention that almost any business will take things like CCW permits, birth certificates and pretty much anything you can show them as an ID. Most states don't require that a PHOTO ID be shown for sales of restricted items, I dont have a list on hand but I'm sure NH isn't the only one that allows a birth certificate to be used as a non-driver ID in lieu of a license, but they also issue a non-driver photo ID when a business or agency might require one.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
No, but many merchants do before accepting checks or credit cards. I'm not surprised that most states have the non-driver's ID now, but California's the only one I was sure of. Thanx for expanding on my post.
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
http://generalcourt.org/bills/2006/HB1582 [generalcourt.org]
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:5, Insightful)
"The Bank Deposit Tax Bill is invaluable in the war against terrorism."
"The Pick Up Your Own Dog's Shit Bill is necessary in light of terrorist plots."
"Declaring May 23rd as Large Testicular Cysts Day is a bold strike against the forces of evil!"
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:3, Insightful)
But that's actually a good bill to be passed... Now of course I'm not sure that even the idiots in the legal system wouldn't question the logic on that one. Where's the "Impeach Bush, #1 terrorist in the world" bill?
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
Walla. [google.com]
Re:Another one bites the dust. (Score:2)
How does that help? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is going to cost the government some money. That money comes from taxes and fees. What is the British citizen getting for that expense?
Re:How does that help? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
when the user presses enter twice? BBCode and a million other web forum apps support this with HTML editing. Welcome to 2006 CmdrTaco.
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
See?
(Ok, so no you don't, but trust me when I say that both those blank lines were inserted with nothing more than two carriage returns each)
Re:How does that help? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't the concerns of British civil libertarians (and presumably Liberal opposition to this bill), center around the giant national database, not the cards themselves? I know mine would. Not having to carry the card might hinder identity theft via wallet-theft and privacy invasions by anyone with brief access to your ID card scanning/swiping it, but this doesn't address potential abuse of the d
Re:How does that help? (Score:3, Insightful)
The Parliament Act [wikipedia.org] is an evil piece of legislation, enacted about 100 years ago. It allows the house of commons for force through legislation that the lords, usually sensibly, tell them to drop. Why did the lords allow this Act itself to get through? Because the assholish king at the time, George V, threatened to repl
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
It won't. It, like so many other repressive laws that politicians who ultimately are scared to death of the citizens they allegedly represent, is a law that sits around waiting for a convenient disaster or crisis to be enacted.
Re:How does that help? (Score:5, Insightful)
Screwed.
It's a huge expense, with no discernible benefit in the areas it's touted against - Immigration, Terrorism, Benefit Fraud. At the risk of repeating myself, but in the vain hope that MPs who clearly have trouble following a simple logical argument may understand, let's break it down:
* Immigration:
a) You get across the border with your foreign passport. ID cards don't help.
b) In a country where, when you get stopped by the police while driving, you have a choice of going to a police station of your convenience within 7 days to show your driving license and insurance details or simply giving a fake name and address, what chance do you have of people actually carrying the ID around? And if you don't get arrested for not having it, it will be ineffective.
* Terrorism:
AFAIK, nobody who has or has attempted to commit an act of terrorism in the UK in history, including Guy Fawkews, would have had a problem getting an ID card. So the net effect on terrorism will be - zilch. nada. nothing. nichts. zero.
* Benefit Fraud:
IIRC, benefit fraud is estimated at GBP 2 billion p.a., and according to government figures, in excess of 95% of that is "misrepresentation of circumstances" (a.k.a. as "my bad back stops me working, but doesn't trouble me on the golf course"). And ID card will help in that area by....magically diagnosing fake back pain? Sounding alarm sirens on malingerers? No, they will help - not at all. So we'll spend at least 8 billion on the governments own estimate to combat 5% of 2billion... Even Gordon Brown should be able to spot the flaw in THAT argument.
Now, if the government does something so patently nonsensical, one has to suspect them of terminal stupidity or having ulterior motives. Neither is a pleasant explanation.
What really galls me about this is how they've threatened the House of Lords, which has done an admirable job of protecting us, even if it's clearly fighting a loosing battle. The irritating thing is that Tony and his Cronies claim to have a democratic mandate; and while the Lords, of course, traditionally lack a democratic mandate, at least they, unlike the PM, weren't actively opposed by two thirds of the voters.
The bottom line is that Tony and his Cronies have comprehensively fucked us over. And unlike George W, they don't even have the excuse of not knowing any better. But they got into power on the premise of protecting human rights, introducing freedom of information, and making the country more democratic; let's not mention of sorting out the health service and education, since they have patently failed on those.
Yes, they introduced a human rights act, only to "opt out" of the important bits as soon as they could; all the terrorism legislation they have introduced has shown that - a lot of them being lawyers - they either slept through the human rights lessons, or just don't give a fuck about people. The latter is more likely, although of course there's the third alternative: Tony creates patently illegal legislation, and Chery and Matrix chambers take the government to court, creating a perpetual money machine for the Blair family. Of course that would be far too sinister for reality, but Dan Brown might take this theory into account for his next plagiarism trial )
They did introduce a freedom of information act. With all the relevant teeth removed. "Commercial Sensitivity" is apparently a valid reason for not giving information. Excuse me, but if you're spending MY tax money I have a right to know how.
They promised to reform the unelected House of Lords. Yes, they did, but by replacing most of the hereditary peers with a bunch of people appointed by an "indepenedent" commitee appointed by the government. Who's going to be more independent, the great-great
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
I resemble that remark. Guy Fawkes wasn't a terrorist, he was a patriot. After all, he was attempting to blow up the houses of parliament. It doesn't matter what your political leanings are, your world would be vastly improved if it didn't have all those politicians in it.
(i) We're not citizens; (ii) police state coming (Score:5, Insightful)
First a correction: we're not citizens of our country, we're subjects of the Queen. In theory she can send us to the mines on a whim, although in practice our royalty are pretty nice folks that just want to be left alone.
Not being citizens is not the problem though. The real problem is that we're just slaves of our politicians, who are all total scum.
We didn't vote for any ID cards or biometrics on passports, since it wasn't put to the vote. The scum in power want more power though, so it was bound to come without a public vote.
No of course it doesn't help anyone, except Bush of course, who uses Blair as a policy support bitch all the time. In this case the War on Drugs was getting a bit flat, so the War on Terror had to be fed the blood of virgins, or of the innocent public in this case since these measures do nothing against terrorists.
It's a sad world, especially this corner of it. Britain will be the first totalitarian police state among the G8, no doubt about that. We're already tracked in our vehicles, monitored on CCTV, recorded at our phones, and spied on at our ISPs. And now we're going to be fingerprinted and retina-scanned.
It's clearly 1983. Not long for 1984 now.
Re:(i) We're not citizens; (ii) police state comin (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the human rights act would stop the queen from sending people to the mines pretty quickly aswell (and yes, it's law) so no, the queen can't send people to the mines on a whim. Even royalty has to abide by the law (although the queen *can* step in to parliament business).
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
In other words, a stealth tax and a way for the powers that be to invade my privacy.
The funny thing is, it's the illegal immigrants and criminals that will be getting fake ID and are going to be less burderned by it all than the average citizen.
Re:How does that help? (Score:2)
Why, a brand new national ID card, silly. Probably with holograms, too. Everyone loves holograms. Whoopie!
Re:How does that help? (Score:3, Insightful)
Shafted. Royally.
Rule Britannia! (Score:2, Insightful)
Except to their own government!
You get waht you pay (or vote) for.
Remember, remember, the fifth of November... (Score:2, Insightful)
Next time I'm sure will be much more successful.
Re:Rule Britannia! (Score:2)
That'll be 78%, then. :-)
It's really too bad they missed the fact that the National Identity Register is the truly dangerous part of all this. Without it, the card is just a piece of plastic. With it, it doesn't matter whether you've got a card or not, you're just a record in a database waiting to be pulled by mistake.
A work-around (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A work-around (Score:2)
Sooner or later there won't be any distinction [euobserver.com] between British and Irish driving licenses.
The T-shirt I want to wear through security ... (Score:4, Interesting)
FRONT TEXT: I'm carrying a picture of myself.
BACK TEXT: Do you feel safer yet?
"Proper" ID (that is, rigorously checked, hard to fake, and accurate), for all of the good civil liberty arguments against it, might actually prevent certain types of crime. Them's the breaks.
Would it deter people who don't mind dying in order to obtain a religo-political goal? Well, it didn't deter the September 11 hijackers, at least not all of them.
The only way to travel free of possible terrorism is if everyone agrees to be schlepped around nude, drugged, and packed in Jello. Including the terrorists.
timothy
Re:The T-shirt I want to wear through security ... (Score:2, Funny)
Mmmm.... Me likey.
Re:The T-shirt I want to wear through security ... (Score:2)
Re:The T-shirt I want to wear through security ... (Score:2)
There's also Archie Bunker's suggestion: arm all the passengers so that the hijackers know they're outnumbered.
What will ID card store? (Score:5, Informative)
Fears have been raised by opponents of identity cards about the amount of information which could be stored on the database. Here is the full list of the 49 types of information which the Identity Cards Bill says should be on the register.
Personal information
* full name
* other names by which person is or has been known
* date of birth
* place of birth
* gender
* address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom
* the address of every other place in the United Kingdom where person has a place of residence.
Identifying information
* a photograph of head and shoulders
* signature
* fingerprints
* other biometric information
Residential status
* nationality
* entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave
Personal reference numbers
* National Identity Registration Number
* the number of any ID card issued
* allocated national insurance number
* the number of any relevant immigration document
* the number of their United Kingdom passport
* the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation
* the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
* the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom
* any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom
* the number of any work permit relating to him/her;
* any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;
* the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs
* the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
Record history
* information falling within the preceding paragraphs that has previously been recorded about him/her in the Register
* particulars of changes affecting that information and of changes made to his/her entry in the Register
* date of death.
Registration and ID card history
* the date of every application for registration made by him/her
* the date of every application by him/her for a modification of the contents of his entry
* the date of every application by him/her confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes)
* the reason for any omission from the information recorded in his/her entry
* particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued to him/her
* whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
When asked to describe a person, if you witness a crime or even just trying to pass the info onto someone else, some of the easiest and best info to give is:
gender
skin color/racial type
hair color & style
height (even if approx. like "short" or "tall")
build (skinny, medium, chubby, fat, muscular, etc.)
eye color
tattoos, scars or other identifying marks
-Charles
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
Gender: please check one or more of the following that applies
A. Male
B. Female
C. Fucked If I Know
Now admittedly, this could leave us with a glaring security hole when Insane Transexual Islamist Suicide Bombers begin crawling out of the woodwork
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
"Is that a bomb beneath your dress ma'am?"
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:3, Insightful)
* National Identity Registration Number
* the number of any ID card issued
* allocated national insurance number
* the number of any relevant immigration document
* the number of their United Kingdom passport
* the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation
* the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) inste
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Civil Contingencies 2004 Act (Score:2)
Because we still have a Queen, it's debatable how far Herr Blair would push such emergency powers.
Blair's modus operandi is to sneak through totalitarianism without anyone noticing. Hence LRRB.
Re:Civil Contingencies 2004 Act (Score:2)
It started several years ago. Since then we've had Regulation of Investigatory Powers; Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security; Civil Contingencies; and now this.
I'm not sure what the legal basis was, but one of the political satire shows on TV the other day was implying that you can now be tagged, placed under curfew, or made subject to an ASBO, all without even being charged with committing a crime, never mind given due process. If you break the relevant condition then you can immediately be sent to prison w
Re:Civil Contingencies 2004 Act (Score:2)
Initially, the Belmarsh detainees were locked up under the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001. It has subsequently been reported that many of them were never even questioned.
The Law Lords rightly ruled that this contravened the Human Rights Act.
The Govt then hastily drafted the Prevention of Terror 2005 Act aka Control Orders and forced it through on the threat that, without it, dangerous people would
How screwed is the US vs UK? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Vaguely true in the UK. More accurately true in the US.
You know, I doubt many people outside the US remember that Bush stole TWO elections.
2. Definitely true in the US, the UK played along...
Much the same I think. One can understand paranoia better if 9/11 happens in your country. The UK has been fighting terrorists forever. Did you know Blair is refusing independent scrutiny of what happened on 7/7?
3. HAHAHAHA!
I can't believe they're both still there. Bush at least was a bit more honest
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
Is this on the card or the register? Even if it is on the register, you could really increase their storage costs by checking every day that no one has messed with your details...
I mean, think of what would happen if someone were to change something without you knowing? Where would you be then? The only way is to constantly check that the government is doing a good job of keeping your details correct.
O
Re:What will ID card store? (Score:2)
And this could cover how ever much "other" information to do with your person the government decides they want. It's ambiguous and dangerous
Uh oh (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, we'll still have Bush, but if we can a Democrat majority in Congress, especially a democrat majority with a fucking spine, Bush and them will spend the next two years fighting until we can hopefully replace all of them in '08 and start the long path of recovery...
You know it's bad when pleas like this are coming from a Republican.
Re:Uh oh (Score:4, Interesting)
You are joking, right? I am no Republican supporter, but you realize that Clinton and the Democrats proposed a National ID Card in the 1990s, and it was the Republicans who opposed it? And the National ID in the UK was pushed by the Labor Party, who would be far-left by U.S. standards.
Seriously, how twisted by your own propoganda do you have to be to think that Democrats are not rabid supporters of the police state? The Democrats and the Left love the idea of a police state just as much as the right.
Perhaps if the Libertarians, or the Greens, or someone else got into congress, we could begin reversing the trend. But don't try to pretend for a second that your party doesn't 100% support Totalitarianism, without reservations.
New Labour != far-left (Score:2)
Not any more, they're not.
The Labour Party used to be fairly left-wing, friend of the common man, strong links to the unions, more socialist than capitalist in direction, etc.
New Labour under Tony Blair have gone so right-wing they're no longer recognisable as the same party. They have all but severed their former union ties, often supported businesses over workers in their economic policy, and quite
Re:Uh oh (Score:2)
I am no Republican supporter, but you realize that Clinton and the Democrats proposed a National ID Card in the 1990s, and it was the Republicans who opposed it?
Well yeah, but that was because it was Clinton. As you may recall, the Repiblicans spent the bulk of Clinton's presidency trying to undermine him. Hell, in 1994 the young republicans that got elected in Congress shut the federal government down for a month over some budgetary pissing match.
Power is not a means, it is an end. (Score:5, Insightful)
>
>Yes, we'll still have Bush, but if we can a Democrat majority in Congress, especially a democrat majority with a fucking spine, Bush and them will spend the next two years fighting until we can hopefully replace all of them in '08 and start the long path of recovery...
Pop Quiz: On January 20, 2009, the leader of Democratic wing of the party, having retaken the House and Senate in '06, and the Presidency in 2008, will take a look at the powers available to it, and say:
a) "Look at all this power we just had dropped into our laps! Just in case we're ever tempted to use it, we'd better pass laws to prevent us from using it."
b) "Thank you very much, Republicans! It's just what we always wanted. Let us know what additional powers you'd like in place for 2016 when it's your turn."
It doesn't matter whether you work for the Democratic wing or the Republican wing. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake.
Re:Uh oh (Score:2)
But it is extraordinarily naive to think the Democrats would be any better or different from the Republicans on national security related power grabs and oppression. Both parties are in a desperate contest to out do each other on making American's safe, and stripping their civil liber
Doesn't go far enough (Score:3, Insightful)
Next, mandatory RFID chips in all banknotes, and a law that cash cannot be handed from one person to another without registering the transfer (which can be done conveniently at government-installed ATM-like or EFTPOS-like machines on every street and in every shop) which scan the cash and the ID cards of giver and receiver and register the transfer.
Yep, that'll stop the terrorists. Sure.
Re:Doesn't go far enough (Score:2)
when people get forcibly tagged, use an EMP device to wipe whole stadia full of people at once... imagine the chaos at the checkpoints... and the hassle involved in getting those "victims" re-tagged...
Re:Doesn't go far enough (Score:2)
http://www.bristol-no2id.org.uk/download-files/Bu
Re:Doesn't go far enough (Score:2)
Yes, and we're tracking them right now.
Overheard in Britain: (Score:4, Insightful)
(Not to be confused with the East German version)
Overheard in Brittian, the gross details (Score:2)
(Not to be confused with the East German version)
Actually the East German Version and British versions would be quite different:
East German: "PAPERS NOW, DUMPKOFT!"
Bristish: "I say chap, but could I trouble you for your papers? Terribly sorry to intrude, but you see, ah, we're looking for these terribly unsporting chaps called terrorists, although I suppose they consider themselves freedom fighters. Miserable blighters, always blowing things up with out warning anyone first. Can't
Right that's it! (Score:2, Interesting)
And in other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
Some Context for the Uninitiated (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/0,,1373591,00.h
The invisible foot of Government (Score:2)
It harms the public good, but greatly benefits a very small number of individuals.
Re:Invisible foot my butt! (Score:2)
Re:The invisible foot of Government (Score:2)
There are a few great quotations that always come to my mind when this subject comes up.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - Pitt the Younger
When men talk about defense, they always claim to be protecting women and children, but they never ask the women and children what they think. - Pat Schroeder
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. - H. L. Mencken
And perhaps the most a
No2ID (Score:5, Informative)
No2ID [no2id.net] is the main opposition to the ID Cards scheme. These guys are truly wonderful people though currently somewhat gutted that the Tories sold them out & didn't even have the decency to warn them.
Brilliant! (Score:2)
What a brilliant plan! Get most of the drawbacks of a National ID card, without the card itself! You've heard of "buy now, pay later"? This is the opposite!
Maybe the MPs can get reelected by fooling the voters into thinking that somehow this plan doesn't harm their privacy nor move the UK ever closer to being a poli
I'm sure glad I don't live in a totalitarian state (Score:2)
Now where did I put my passport and social security card so I can cash a check to get change for a locker so I can store all the stuff I'm not allowed to take when I go flying?
Backhanders (Score:2)
Welcome to the cold grey world of automated law (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember remember the 5th of November (Score:5, Insightful)
It's instructive to watch history repeat itself, because it allows me to see just how Hitler and the Third Reich were able to achieve what they did without people stopping them. It's one thing to learn about it in school, when you seldom understand the full spectrum of what is being taught.
I can now safely say that it's not that people didn't know back then. Just as now, the people just DID NOT CARE enough to do something about it. So in sixty years we have learnt exactly.... nothing.
It's just sad that so many new people will have to die needlessly before we realise our error yet again. As an "intelligent" race we really don't deserve our place at the top of the food chain, because intelligence denotes reason and so far I don't see any.
I won't weep for our destruction, because we deserve it.
Re:Maybe I'm just F cking stupid..? (Score:2)
Why bother? (Score:2)
Just get ahold of the other person, take their fingers and eyes, and then disappear them. I thought that was rather obvious.
These new ID cards will be fantastic at catching one-off murderers and car thieves. They'll be even better at giving terrorists and other organised crime new ways of operating.
Re:Maybe I'm just F cking stupid..? (Score:2)
Re:Maybe I'm just F cking stupid..? (Score:2)
Perhaps the combination would result in a lower chance of collision- but as we push to 7 billion people on this planet and beyond, the number of individual items needed to avoid collision *also* goes up. Eventually it will be a race between criminals hacking the database to find alternate p
Re:Maybe I'm just F cking stupid..? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or simply hack the system and insert some new records containing whatever you want, or alter the biometric data and photos in existing records. Terrorist groups _will_ get access to equipment that is capable of generating the correct biometric data, and they _will_ have people with IT skills several orders of magnitude higher than the bozos who are tasked with implementing the database, and they _will_ be able to manufactur
Re:incredible.... (Score:2)
Re:incredible.... (Score:2)
Re:incredible.... (Score:2)
Don't believe me? [telegraph.co.uk]
Passports (Score:2)
Yep, I renewed my passport recently for exactly this reason.
I'm hopeful, if not terribly optimistic, that by the time it's due to be renewed, the New Labour, nanny-state, authoritarian, draconian-law-passing regime will long since have been kicked out of office. Maybe some sanity will even have returned to our legal system - perhaps starting by repealing every law passed in recent years under the mantra of fighting terrorism that can't be shown, publicly and with clear evidence rather than based on trusti
Re:speaking as a british citizen (Score:2)
Heard it before? (Score:5, Insightful)
And that my friend is exactly why so many jews ended up in crematoriums.
1. "Okay the don't like us but we can still work, this is as far as they'll go"
2. "Okay we have to register and wear these stars, be we can still own our business. this is as far as they'll go"
3. "Okay, our property has been siezed, and we cant get a permit to leave. but they'd be crazy to go any farther...."
Right now it's a nebulous group. Next it becomes people who don't have "acceptable" viewpoints. Here in the US both the FBI and pentagon have been caught spying on quakers [aclu.org] for gods sake.
Every time any government tries to increase its power, the citizens should always ask themselves "would I want (insert your least favorite politician or political group here) to have this power?"
Re:Heard it before? (Score:2)
Re:Heard it before? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not quite. But historically they have been the first step towards it. [preventgenocide.org]
from the link above:
The most elaborate identification system created was that of Nazi Germany, though it was not applied uniformly in all territories occupied by Germany. Raul Hilberg describes that system and its impact upon Jews in especially great detail in his 1985 edition of The Destruction of the European Jews, summarizing as follows:
"The whole identification
Re:speaking as a british citizen (Score:2)
Oh.. and now you are a suspected terrorist as well so lets resweep for more suspects.
Why nothing to hide != nothing to fear (Score:3, Insightful)
That's what I thought about government when I was younger and more naive. You've nothing to fear with nothing to hide, they told me. That's fine, as long as no-one in government ever makes an honest mistake. Yeah, like that would ever happen, right?
One day, a low-level civil servant working in a tax office mistyped a National Insurance number, probably one of hundreds he entered into the system during that working day alone. Unfortunately for me, he fluked typin
Re:Thanks Tony (Score:2)
That doesn't work either. See: Patriot Act.
Re:Thanks Tony (Score:2)
Blame your government. Terrorists can "attack" freedom, but only governments can destroy it.
Re:What Freedom??? (Score:2)
Blockquoth the AC:
Of course. That's presumably why violent crime, and for that matter gun-related crime, are on the increase in this country, and an estimated 500,000 illegal firearms are in circulation: that's one for every 100 people in the UK!
Re:What Freedom??? (Score:3, Informative)
On the 500,000 illegal guns there is absolutly no evidence for this whatsoever. Indeed during the campaign to get rid of handguns in 1996 the UK shooting bodies and there affiliates used to pick a figure out of the air at random on a weekly basis - one prominent number was at one point seriously citing 5 million illegal handguns in circ
Re:Wasted Opportunity (Score:2)
I agree with you that the card isn't that big a deal. If it was just a printed card (i.e. I can trivially verify the information that it's telling others about me, and conceal elements I don't wish to reveal), then I probably wouldn't be as exercised about the issue as I am.
2. Your records are already a case of "public" record - at l