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Sandals and Ponytails Behind Slow Linux Adoption 948

Eric Giguere writes "CNet is reporting that according to former Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn 'the lax dress code of the open-source community is one of the reasons behind the software's slow uptake in commercial environments.' In particular, Quinn blames the 'sandal and ponytail set' for sluggish adoption of Linux by businesses and governments." From the article: "Quinn, who faced plenty of scrutiny over his support of the OpenDocument standards-based office document format, said proponents of open source in government faced formidable opposition from vested interests if they went public."
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Sandals and Ponytails Behind Slow Linux Adoption

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  • haha (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bloosqr ( 33593 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:12PM (#15013784) Homepage
    So sad but its obvious Quinn is talking about Stallman in sandles. Quinn is the MA open source guy and Stallman is unequivocally the most idealistic, free software guru that has come out of the MA area and the go to guy for all things free software. Who would I listen to, Quinn or Stallman.. Stallman of course. Who has a habit of rubbing "open source" people the wrong way, Stallman of course. Who do you think Quinn is talking about as being a thorn in "open sources" business friendly side? Stallman of course. What a cheap "ad hominem" shot.
  • Oh, Give Me A Break! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GeekBird ( 187825 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:12PM (#15013792) Homepage Journal
    Since when does a developer's alleged mode of dress influence the decisions of those who never meet him? It's yet another excuse: "Oh, those open source guys are hippy dippy slobs with pony tails and sandals! Let's buy from MicroSoft who makes their (sales) people dress up nice!!"

    It's bullshit.

    Besides, microsofties wear west coast developer attire too, just they don't let them make sales calls. Also, I know damn well what the Apple geeks wear, and it isn't suit and tie. I see them whenever I drive down the DeAnza Blvd in Cupertino. They are definitely ponytail compliant - although some of them their *only* hair is their ponytail, with nothing on top!
  • by phorm ( 591458 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:13PM (#15013795) Journal
    In the last job and some others I've worked, the ones with ponytails were generally the big-boys in admin. Really, one generally didn't notice it, as their attitudes were still professional. Sandals I'm not so keen on (who wears those, anyways), but a ponytail is hardly as damaging as the lack of professionalism some people have. Moreover, I've met quite a few geeks that had rather unpleasant hygiene (see: body odor), which is far worse than the ponytail and sandals.

    As for myself, I'm hardly a shirt-and-tie person. I'm not sitting here with a kokanee shirt and shorts, but when your job often involves crawling under desks and in other various recesses where computer parts dwell, a white shirt and tie are hardly functional for the position at hand.
  • Re:chicken or egg (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Skjellifetti ( 561341 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:21PM (#15013875) Journal
    but your very own work and feelings about yourself change based on your dress.

    While that can be a positive correlation for some folks, for many of us it is a negative correlation. The dressier the environment, the less relaxed I feel and the less I am able to concentrate on producing high quality product.

    But I have noticed a large positive correlation here in the stuffy Midwest between dress and pay. My previous job was in IT at an airline. I took a 20K/year pay cut just so I could wear blue jeans and sandles. Fuck that business casual crap.
  • Re:Yeah... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by desNotes ( 900643 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:22PM (#15013880) Journal
    Several years ago I interviewed with a company that did consulting with one of the big accounting firms (you know the one) and one of the stipulations for being accepted was to cut my ling hair. The president was sure I would not be accepted when dealing with representatives from the 'firm.' I left the company after 2 years, took another job (grew my hair back) that was hell and then went back to consulting. My first position was with the 'firm' that would not accept me with long hair. I didn't have time to cut it before my interview but was really to tell them I would. Not only did they not care but there were several programmers with long hair. Been there over 2 years and never had an issue with anyone regarding my hair. They are quite happy with my abilities and expertise. Maybe they put up with me because I don't wear sandals!
  • ...sometimes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:22PM (#15013887)

    Sometimes dressing in less "professional" apparel can lose you a sale. Sometimes, it can gain you a sale. I know a lot of the sales guys are somewhat leery of dragging along scruffy looking geeks to business meetings, but from what I've seen it often works to convince businessmen of the credibility of tech. "Wow look at all those piercings, if the company lets him get away with that he must be brilliant!" This works well in smaller, more technical markets I imagine.

    I also notice that the work environment at a company is one of the most important aspects in attracting really talented people. Smart people, who love what they do would rather dress like slobs, have free beer, and a ping-pong table than make an extra $20K a year. The environment is worth a lot to a person's quality of life. Now that does not mean just because a company is relaxed it has talented people, but if you are looking for extraordinary people, that is one very visible sign.

    I also notice that given a relaxed or absent dress code, the clothing of choice widely varies. Some people prefer to wear a suit every day, even if they are just going to sit at a desk and code for 12 hours. Others will be wearing shirts with fake boobs attached. I have not noticed that either type tends to be more or less proficient.

    I know I'm not the only one to have noticed this trend and I know it is something in some businessmen's minds when they are meeting with new partners, suppliers, or customers. The rule that a dress code will get you more sales is not universal and does not apply to all market segments. A dress code might get you more sales, right up till all your talent moves on and your more relaxed competitor starts to clobber you in head-to-head comparisons.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:27PM (#15013933)
    At 37, I haven't suffered any harm from this attitude yet.

    Operative word in the above: yet . It's fun to hold on to that attitude from your youth (note: not necessarily a "youthful attitude", but an "attitude from your youth") and all but 40's thundering over the proverbial hill and has you in it's sights, young man, and you'll soon show up (if you haven't already, unbeknownst to you) on the corporate "OhMyGodHe'sNotTwentyAnyMoreAndWhatIfHeGetsSenile/ Mid-Life-Crisis/RectalCancer/Whatever-itisAndLeave sOrWorseYetHangsOnUntilOrPastRetirementAndBecomesA Long-TermDrainOnTheBottomLineWe'veGotToCutHimLoose AtTheVERYNextAvailableOpportunity" radar screen that EVERY corporation with even a single "bean-counter" on the payroll has. Happened to my buddies. Happened to me. Couldn't believe it. Didn't agree with it. Completely understand it. And, like the song says, "we won't be fooled again" (as if it's not too late...)

    Ah, on second thought, nevermind -- Lots of luck with that attitude and I hope you like peanut butter. See ya! (and I will, every time I look in the mirror. But hey, look on the bright side: that "middle-aged-spread" is easier to keep off when you can't afford Twinkies AND beer...)
  • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:40PM (#15014021) Journal
    I'd gotten unsolicited offers at trade conference visits before (when I was casually dressed). But the first time I came out to Silicon Valley for a deliberate job hunt I caved in to my 'ol dad's suggestion and wore a suit to interviews. I didn't get a single offer on that trip.

    Don't know what happened at most of 'em, but I later heard that, at one place, everybody was impressed by my tech prowess and wanted to hire me - except one key guy who was SO offended by my suit that he flat-out refused to work in the same company with me, strictly because of it.

    Know your audience. B-)
  • by jpmattia ( 793266 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:40PM (#15014023) Homepage
    Quick tutorial for software buyers:
    Jacket and ties are signs that too much of a software company's resources are being spent on clothing.
    Sandals and ponytails are signs of software you should pursue.
    Pretty simple really.
  • by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:43PM (#15014043)

    Shower. Shave. Buy some button up shirts and a pair of slacks. From my experience, this makes all the difference in the world. Like it or not - it's the way the game is played.

    Funny, having worked at several successful software companies I've heard the phrase, "he wore a suit to the interview," used in a negative way more than once. Often your appearance does matter, but you need to tailor it to your audience. In some markets bringing along a sloppily dressed geek will instill in your potential customers a belief that your product must be advanced. In others, it is seen as a sign of a small player, not worth dealing with. Most customers expect a somewhat professional looking salesman, but in many cases they are happy to see "those geeky guys" if they tour the facilities or if someone comes out to install a few million dollars of high-tech gear for them.

    As for the game, that isn't half of it. Knowing where the good strip clubs/bars/hookers/drugs are is more likely to get you sales than your dress, from what I've seen. I've seen us lose sales to people we were pounding into the ground in head-to-head comparisons, because the competition spent a week taking the purchaser out to strip clubs. The point is, sales is more than dress code, and lack of dress code may actually get you more sales in some markets.

  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:52PM (#15014121) Homepage Journal
    it's a good thing to remember that ties and folded down shirt collars used to be the sign of drug users, rebels, and layabouts, in earlier times.
  • by rhakka ( 224319 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @06:57PM (#15014167)
    Kind of. I do war with this a bit myself... when I went into business for myself, I had a nosering, for example. Lost it one day, slow to replace it, healed over... and I would kind of like to have it back, but now i'm all nervous about it (now that the biz is moving up).

    On the one hand, I very much like the idea that perhaps dressing as YOU feel comfortable could strike some sort of blow for a meritocracy. That is, if it makes just a few people stop and re-evaluate their set of assumptions about "people with piercings" or what have you... it may make some beneficial changes. Perhaps encourage more people to look at substance instead of image. and in the meantime, I get to look the why I like to look.

    On the other hand, if it spooks someone, it could cost me and my biz a whole lotta bread. And while I like my nosering, I wouldn't walk out and pay $5000 to have one, and I'm not sure I'm willing to risk that (or more, or less) simply for a fashion accessory which isn't ultimately all that important.

    But, maybe that's the kind of thinking that allows image-based evaluations to continue on a wide scale?

    I still don't know. I have no concrete evidence that when I did have one, that it ever cost me, or my previous employer a project. but what if, what if...
  • by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @07:08PM (#15014241) Homepage
    IBM used to make their techies wear suits. Then, during the dark period in the late 80s and early 90s when they were struggling to reinvent themselves, they had a revelation: Business-type customers like to see people in "professional" business atire, but this only matters if the customer actually sees you. The rest of the time, it is fine to dress comfortably. Thus sales, marketing, and any techie who happened to be interacting with the business-type customers would wear a suit and tie, everyone else wore what they wanted. Bam! Problem solved! And since then, the "sandal and ponytail set" hasn't stopped IBM from making sales, now have they?

    So the fundamental problem, if there really is a real problem behind the article, is that the wrong people are speaking to each other. If you're trying to make an OSS business case to the business-types, then yeah you need a business-type person dressed in business-type clothing to do the talking. If you aren't a for-profit organization who can hire such a person to do the talking for you, then why do you give a fuck if the business types listen or not? The techies will listen to you, and you'll get in like most OSS has gotten in -- via the back door in the server room. If you are a for-profit, then why do you need a cnet article to tell you to "dress for success" and hire a marketing person instead of sending your be-sandled techies out into the field?

    I don't know, this whole thing smacks of misdirection. He says it's the poor dress code that's causing the slow adoption, but then makes it sound more like it's politics and "IT leadership" (interpreted to mean some kind of management, shouldn't be wearing sandals) that are to blame. It sounds to me like the real reasons for the slow adoption of OSS have nothing to do with "sandals and ponytails", and "OMG RMS dresses looks like a dirty hippy!" is just an excuse.
  • Re:Yeah... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by miskatonic alumnus ( 668722 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @07:39PM (#15014442)
    By the same token, there is a usually a deep-seated psychological reason people need to dress and act like everyone else --- it probably has to do with fear of expressing individuality and being accepted. Hair grows naturally; but we aren't born with business suits and razors.
  • Re:...sometimes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RembrandtX ( 240864 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @07:48PM (#15014500) Homepage Journal
    I've been on both sides of the fence with the 'perception' issue. And I agree, it all depends on the market and the perception.

    a lifetime or two ago I was in Sales. Not only Sales, but selling from an anglo country into Japan. Not only selling into Japan, but selling toy SOLDIERS into japan.

    Games Workshop makes a table top war game / hobby product line. A very large english company that sells multinationally [including here in the USA]

    Selling into a foreign country, like Japan (this was just around the time of the economic burst.) its a tricky animal. I know it seems stereotypical, but foreigners were held in HIGH suspicion. An expensive [brand name] suit, an expensive meal after your meeting - these are the things that could close a deal. You had to look and act the part.

    Prior to my time across the pond, I sold to chain and independant stores here in the USA, and it was the opposite. 'Hobby' guys selling to an independant retailer were expected to wear jeans and a polo shirt - suits made them nervous - like you were out of touch. Selling to a Hobbytown or larger chain, and you were expected to wear a suit if you were talking to execs.

    I bring this up as a stark relation to my IT life.

    I have a closet with several Armani suits, and a handful of custom made english / italian suits from my sales life. I rarely wear them.

    I started working in IT again for a fortune 500. A rather .. large .. Cable company that I am betting 90% of you are familiar with. I started there in sales, and they eventually needed technical people - so I moved depts. Dockers and a button down shirt was the dress code. Which turned into Jeans and a nice shirt if your sitting at your desk all day. If i dressed nicer than that - folks asked where i was interviewing - and my bosses got very nervous.

    I left that company, and started working at a power tool manufacturer [again in IT.] that everyone here has heard of.

    They had a typical dress code, which i ignored - most of the time wearing jeans and a shirt. or sweater etc. Nothing ragged mind you - just nothing dressy either.

    One specific day comes to mind. I was meeting with a director of IT, a director of Marketing, [I was originally in the marketing IT dept for e-commerce and branding development. read :: web development.] A higher level sales manager, a few retail managers, and some channel folks from outside companies.

    I did my pitch, explained what we were doing and sat through the rest of the meeting. [No one talked during my presentation - I was wearing jeans and a company polo with dress shoes.] As others were talking, people took out their blackberries, laptops, left to go to the bathroom etc.

    After the meeting, I was talking to the Marketing director, and the IT director about what the vendors might have thought, and the IT director - being somewhat of a .. well .. prick .. said [in front of my boss]:

    "I can't believe you went to that meeting wearing jeans, thats totally against the dress code." He forced a chuckle as he said "I wish I was special enough to get away with that." [He was a very condesending fellow - and just so you can all see how the wheel turns, has lost over 70% of the people from his dept in the past year.]

    The marketing director said to him [and indirectly my boss] :

    "How is he supposed to dress ? He is *THE* web guy. We like when he dresses like this for meetings, becuause it shows outsiders that he MUST know what he is talking about - because he dresses like this and is not only working here, but taken into these meetings with outside vendors. It shows that he is confident that his work here is so valuable that he doesn't have to worry about having perfect business attire."

    Now the icing.

    I left that company as well, about six months ago. To WORK with the same marketing director guy at another company. I'm much higher up the food chain, and I am still not expected to wear suits. Sometimes they complain (semi jokingly) that i don't dress 'edgey' enough, and people might not take me seriously.

    what a world :P
  • Re:chicken or egg (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Queer Boy ( 451309 ) * <> on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @08:00PM (#15014567)
    Fuck that business casual crap.

    Business casual is an oxymoron if I've ever heard it. The only CEO you're going to see coming into the office without a suit is Steve Jobs. The concept of dress casual came about in the 90's as a way to immediately distinguish the management from the unwashed masses of workers. In the 80's, the president of the company didn't look any different than the receptionist. I did a paper on this in 98.

  • MS Techs are Hawt (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kevin_osborne ( 691303 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @08:08PM (#15014609) Homepage
    according to the office girls; and you know what it's true.

    I have a good mate who is thick as a brick but still managed to get an MCSE - I guess when a company is paying the the big bucks to the training organisation they'd be hard pressed to fail them.

    But while he is thick he has great teeth a good tan and dresses like a CEO. so he scores plenty of sweet contracts and rides the fine pussy at those workplaces - at the office I met him at he banged three hott secretaries - but asked me how to spell crowd. twice.

    Same thing goes for their marketing people - the MS account managers and biz devs are hot fucking shit. I have no doubt they vet their customer-facing teams on looks - they have a far higher proportion of genuine stunners than you would expect. If I had a 300k contract dangling I would definitely let these hotties pitch to me. pitch it baby... aw yeah

    linux techs are ugly fuckers. I know because I am one, and so are you bitches. sad but true
  • Re:Yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <> on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @08:44PM (#15014792) Homepage Journal
    Cultures are supposed to conflict. That's what makes them separate cultures. If you don't find another culture inferior, superior, or at least alien in some way, then you should really consider the fact that it probably isn't another culture at all.

    I find Japanese culture neither inferior nor superior overall (though it is certainly alien). Exactly how does that fit your premise that all cultures are supposed to conflict? I can find something interesting, but different, without passing a judgment on it.

  • As a team lead back when I was still in college, I used to buy my people donuts once a week or so (sometimes my money was too tight to do it thanks to tuition, but I usually managed). It was the ritual of the Krispy Kreme. Pick up a small box of glazed on the way to the office and have a short chat over food before starting for the day.

    The funny thing was my boss hated it, because they'd look at me if he told them to go do something, waiting for me to okay it.
  • by sultanoslack ( 320583 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @09:39PM (#15015055)
    Latching onto subcultures is pretty typical human nature. The corporate softball team is a subculture; the PTA is a subculture; the local church is a subculture. It gives people a sense of belonging and generally, looking at social structure you see that views on appearance, subsets of morality and so on are quite flexible and usually are readily adaptable to belonging to a given subculture. Actually, the ones that you really need to worry about are the ones that can't find a social group to latch on to. Believe it or not, relating to goths or ravers or punks isn't nearly as fundamentally different to relating to suits as the guy that wears polo shirts, but can't talk to other humans.

    I personally think the European underground techno scene is a lot of fun. I really enjoy dancing all night on weekends. To an extent I look the part. But this doesn't keep me from being one of the lead developers in the LinuxLab at one of Europe's largest software companies.

    Why don't I take on the appearance that's typical for the European IT industry? Well, honestly, I'm not that far from the default, though I do have hair down past my shoulders and tend to have kind of a grunge-nouveau look. But the more important thing is that I'm established within my field. I feel like my accomplishments speak for themselves and if you're not the sort of employer that's willing to look past my long hair to the long list of cool things on my resume, then you're not the sort of company that I want to work for. It is in a sense a statement -- it's a statement saying, "I'm good at what I do. I'm not going to be a cookie cutter cog in the corporate environment. You do need to have some flexibility, but if you're cool with that, then I can probably do good things for you."
  • Re:Yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @09:59PM (#15015133)
    A teen, in spiky blue hair with a bolt through his nose and tons of other piercings in beatup old all black clothes who demands you ignore their appearance and treat them just like everyone else.

    If appereance doesn't matter (his point, thus I should treat him just like the guy wearing the suit), then what is the point of dressing that way? It makes a statement. And if you choose to make that statement, then you have to understand other people will react to your statement. You can't make a statement and demand it is ignored at the same time.

    You seem to have missed a vital detail here - you chose that reaction. And implicitly this is not a good reaction, judging by your tone. Why did you react that way? Let me see if I understand correctly, its because the spiky-haired dude made you react that way? Come on. You reacted the way you chose to react.

    When someone wears something that doesn't fit into a nice little societal box, yes indeed that person is telling a story about themselves. What I find, frankly, sad and pathetic, is that you would not give this person even a chance, based on your own tightly-bound little worldview of what constitutes 'professional'. As I pointed out in another thread, and I'm sure most of you would attest to this - I've met some of the most immature and mentally stunted people of my whole life wearing expensive suits and holding high positions. It is meaningless.

    Sure, I think poorly of someone who is, say, unhygenic (there are limits) - but frankly it all depends on the job. If you ask me to trust a graphic designer in a suit, and one in a black turtleneck with a brow piercing, I don't have an answer - I need to see their work and speak with them. The suit is completely meaningless. And there is a huge area between 'not wearing a suit' and 'looks like a refugee'.

  • Re:Yeah... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Sargeant Slaughter ( 678631 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @10:28PM (#15015251) Homepage
    "white guys"

    They use asians now. White guys in suits (the target audience) think Asian means good at math and computers. Just check out intel or AMD or Dell's business websites. At least 50% of the people in there marketing photos are asian now. Funny thing is, all the hype will just imprint it even more into suit's brain that Asians are good at computers.
  • by badzilla ( 50355 ) <> on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @11:24PM (#15015448)
    Something like this has happened to me on occasion when working in tech support and something goes critically wrong onsite at a customer. One of us would arrange to visit them to fix whatever and the account manager would specifically direct us to dress shabby otherwise the customer would not believe they were actually getting a deep-level tech person. In contrast I have also once been shown the door from a bank's datacenter for wearing a coat/jacket and tie but not actually a suit!
  • by Daniel Dvorkin ( 106857 ) * on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @11:40PM (#15015507) Homepage Journal
    Thanks for the non-kneejerk reply. :)

    Honestly, I'm a pretty decent guy. I get along well with the people I work with, and for the most part always have, in a number of different settings (the military, corporate IT, and now academia.) And although of course I've had to do things I disagreed with, for the most part, when I felt strongly about an issue, I was able to bring management around to my point of view through reasoned discussion.

    My original post, as only one other poster seems to have noticed, was directed at a specific type of manager -- the type who automatically dismisses people who don't dress the way he does, who refuses to recognize that for the most part (not always, certainly, but that's the way to bet) casual dress is just as much a mark of the competent techie as a sharp suit is of the competent businessman, who honestly believes that Microsoft is better than F/OSS because Bill Gates wears a suit and Richard Stallman doesn't. And who, not incidentally, inevitably ends up driving competent tech people away from his organizations because smart people refuse to put up with his crap.

    People like that are really just as lacking in social skills as the stereotypical smelly geek; but (as with smelly geeks, come to think of it) there are a lot of them, and they congregate in groups where their antisocial behavior is not only accepted but encouraged, and they reinforce each other. Unfortunately, because they are primarily interested in telling people what to do rather than actually doing anything useful themselves, they tend to acquire enough power to make other people's lives miserable.

    Believe it or not, I don't prejudge people in suits; I deal with them exactly as I do everyone else, and that's pretty well. However, I refuse to deal nicely with anyone who does not extend me the same courtesy.

    (Oh yeah -- I'm obviously not a full-time writer, and never have been except for a brief period a number of years ago. The truth is, making a living from writing is damned rare. Which is too bad, but so it goes.)
  • by Belial6 ( 794905 ) on Tuesday March 28, 2006 @11:56PM (#15015579)
    I keep running into people that use that term, and don't seem to know it's meaning. Being 'professional' means that you do the job in a competent way in a timely, cost effective fashion. Professionl dress is clothing that allows you to complete that job in a competent, timely, SAFE, cost effective fashion. Ties and white shirts are absolutly unprofessional for IT guys that crawl around under desks. Suits and ties are also unprofessional for virtually all blue collar workers, which like it or not, we coders are. To be honest, I would never trust a guy in a tie to touch my computer, and with good reason. While I have met some very competent managers and sales people whole dress in suits and ties, when it comes to coders I have known, cost of clothing and quality of code has been mostly inverse of each other.
  • functionality (Score:3, Interesting)

    by r00t ( 33219 ) on Wednesday March 29, 2006 @12:56AM (#15015824) Journal
    The foreskin mechanically helps to open the woman. It moves hair and labia aside, spreads the vagina open. lets the penis enter with less dry abrasion. Generally, the foreskin helps you get started.

    The foreskin also has estrogen sensors. (you can feel the estrogen, like heat/cold/pressure/etc.) No other part of the human body has this feature.

    Do you find it odd that very few adults with foreskins want to be circumcised? In any case, one ought to let a person choose for himself if he likes to be sexually mutilated.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29, 2006 @06:14AM (#15016655)

    Knowing where the good strip clubs/bars/hookers/drugs are is more likely to get you sales than your dress, from what I've seen. I've seen us lose sales to people we were pounding into the ground in head-to-head comparisons, because the competition spent a week taking the purchaser out to strip clubs.

    You just have to be talking about these guys: - although they are a very small company so maybe not.

    We had one of their sales guys try the strip joint trick with my boss, apparently that's the main way the sleazy fucks make sales. As a female its the first time I heard of low lives like the Ewan guy from o2networks. Turns out they get the costs for this sleaze back with the amount they overbill their customers and thankfully are getting a real bad reputation and kicked off accounts currently. Good.

    Its a man's world for sure and annoys the hell out of me that people use these stunts rather than judge a product / skill on its merit.

  • Re:Yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Wednesday March 29, 2006 @09:57AM (#15017295) Homepage
    You sir are an absolute winner.

    I have never taken advice from anyone on Slashdot, because as we all know, every single one of us is a self-righteous prick.

    But, I am going to follow your advice. As soon as I finish this post, I am going to get off my ass and go iron my clothes. I am giving a presentation today, and I was thinking that my clothes ('business casual' is my usual form of dress) were fine just coming out of the dryer.

    I am going to take that extra step, and actually iron my shirt and pants. Because you are right- the 10 minutes I spend doing that will serve me much better than reading the ramblings of the incoherent fools here on Slashdot.

    With absolutely no sarcasm, I thank you for the suggestion, and I want you to know that you have reached out to at least one person today.
  • by Rinzai ( 694786 ) on Wednesday March 29, 2006 @01:36PM (#15018963) Journal

    I am not a business drone.

    I don't do business drone-like things. You know what I mean by that--have endless, usually pointless, meetings (not to mention "pre-meetings," whatever the hell those are), generate tons of paperwork in an effort to appear like I'm actually working, and rely on charts and graphs to know my position in the world. I don't treat automobiles, houses/neighborhoods, or wives as some kind of a status symbol. I'm down on the metal, doing what I do best--sculpting in pure electricity.

    So, I don't feel any particular need to dress like a business drone. I think it's a good thing for me to dress in such a way that people can tell the difference, so they know what to expect.

    Socially aware? Please. My social contract with the world at large is not to show up naked. That's it. Beyond that, it's all up to me. The world can deal with it, because the world benefits from what I do. [You better believe it--what I've done over the past 10 years, in concert with a small team of very talented people, has revolutionized a very large world-wide industry.] If the world wants what I have, then the world deals on my terms. I didn't ask to be in the game, and nobody offered me an opportunity to determine the rules. Ipso facto.

    For the record, I don't have a ponytail and I don't wear sandals. I also don't wear long-sleeved shirts, or dress pants. If that gives the business guys an aneurysm--GOOD.

Each honest calling, each walk of life, has its own elite, its own aristocracy based on excellence of performance. -- James Bryant Conant