Blizzard CEO Lays Gay Guild Issue To Rest 296
Edge Online reports that Blizzard CEO Paul Sams has responded to the GLBT Guild issue that flared up in World of Warcraft a while back. From the article: "... he again characterized the earlier decision to prohibit mention of real-world subjects in recruiting for guilds as an 'unfortunate mistake,' which only came about because the initial comments weren't properly analyzed before sending a warning. 'It is expected and accepted that players will discuss a wide variety of topics, based on both the game world and the real world,' Sams says. 'Players are free to discuss personal characteristics if they wish, to include their sexual orientations and gender identities.'
Huzzah (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Huzzah (Score:5, Insightful)
Not after the accountants/PR people told him.
Re:Huzzah (Score:2)
They misapplied it in the first place.
Re:Huzzah (Score:2)
Sure you can. Do the right thing, while it's still the right thing, not merely the most expedient or most cost-effective or least litigation-exposing thing.
Doesn't take much. Just a little integrity.
Re:Huzzah (Score:3, Insightful)
Riiiight. You know as well as I do that for most major corporations, a "little" integrity isn't much in the same way that a "little" neutron star isn't heavy.
Re:Huzzah (Score:3, Informative)
There have been a couple of unforeseen effects that all the media attention has had, though... up until the incident, my main was level 60, alliance on Shadow Moon -- the server and faction that Oz was recruiting from.
I have the feeling that a ton of people have created characters on that particular server to speak both for and against the issue at hand.
Since then, the queues have been so long on that particular server, that my wife and I
Re:Huzzah (Score:2)
That's what I get for rolling a rogue at launch!
Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:2, Funny)
Eh... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
If Blizzard will allow anti-gay sentiments to fly freely, surely they must allow pro-gay expressions as well.
But forbidding it is saying, "Stay in your closet, the bigots were here first," or something similarly silly. It amounts to choosing a side, in any case, and that's something that Blizzard seems to have decided against doing.
thank you (Score:3, Insightful)
In less than 10 words you summed up the original problem. Maybe it was easy for you to write, but it expresses EXACTLY what the problem is and what people have spent hours trying to get their brains around.
It's the bigots who are the problem here, and they should not be appeased. Maybe they shouldn't have done to them what I'd personally like to do to them, but they definitely should not be catered to.
Re:thank you (Score:3, Funny)
No no no, calling you a faggot is a compliment. Why do you get so upset? Sheesh some people are so touchy.
Re:Eh... (Score:3, Funny)
i don't think it should have been an issue to begin with..
reminds me of a friend that tried to get me to play EverCrack by saying "it's soo cool you can even sit and watch a sun set" i then promptly pointed out the window and told him to go outside
Very true. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Very true. (Score:2)
Read what you wrote again and tell me how this is any different from the normal trash talking that goes on between guilds on a daily basis in WoW. There are guilds with reputations, both good and bad, on every server, for a variety of reasons. Some even brag about them, and are
Re:Eh... (Score:2, Interesting)
But if you're saying "I don't want to hear about things I personnaly find icky on your side of the keyboard," then you're probably a hypocrite if
Re:Eh... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know how you play, bug the guild I'm with is pretty tight on our own personal lives. None of this is 'in-game' appropriate by your standards because its not in character. The only place that should enforce in-game character is in RP realms that ironicly was the 'safe' place to talk about GBLT guilds when bliz first responded.
It is inevitable that you will talk about your personal lives in game and as long as there is a chat function in game, you HAVE to expect a human being to talk about their real selves at least to some extent.
About your own gandparent post about more discrimination, you're missing the point completely.
1. I don't know of a single gay person that hates all straight people (they may exist, but are by far a minority), so if someone starts a 'gay' guild they're actually starting a gay-friendly guild. That means that they only allow in people that can accept their lifestyle.
2. Being 'outed' in the game doesn't mean much considering there is a harrasment policy thats enforced. If you call a gay person a ---, whatever they can report you. If you know they're gay and you don't want to group with them, thats your right. Its an easy policy to appease.
3. The ability to distinguish gay-tolerant vs. gay-bashers is the key to this whole issue from the get-go. If I was gay, I'd like to associate with people that don't think I'm going to burn in sinful hell. If you don't allow for channels of dialog to allow people to communicate, you could have a guy join a guild and become perfectly happy with it until one night, some drunk player starts spweing hate with the rest of your group joining in, then you realize, "Oh crap, these people hate -me-", so the common ground you thought you were forging with these people was an illusion. So, what do you do? Quit the guild and search for another one, hoping that they're more tolerant?
I don't want to change people, though I wish they'd grow up. I want people to be given the opportunity to find a group of people that are tolerant to them, and the pre-article state of affairs left that ability to find that group unnecessarily restricting.
Re:Eh... (Score:2)
not in an open channel.
"I don't know how you play, bug the guild I'm with is pretty tight on our own personal lives. "
mine to, but again we keep it off open channels.
"It is inevitable that you will talk about your personal lives in game and as long as there is a chat function in game, you HAVE to expect a human being to talk about their real selves at least to some extent."
that can, but not in open chennel. I will conced
Re:Eh... (Score:3, Insightful)
What is that really though? Is it self-censorship to avoid saying "fag"? Or is it a meta-cussword representing any nasty thing you could imagine. If it's the latter it's actually a lot more offensive than just spelling something out (like fag). (This is similar to the fact that fear of the unknown is often much worse than fear of something concrete.)
Of course, maybe it makes sense you'd be offended by the unknown obsenities your mind conjuers in the dark even if no wordly word can achieve such an end.
Re:Eh... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Eh... (Score:2)
Same here. I'm not sure why there is this association of having a female avatar = unsuccessful with women in real life.
I play both male and female avatars. I don't consider either of them a projection of myself into the virtual world. My toons are characters. Just as much as a character in a story I might write.
Re:Okay. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Okay. (Score:3, Insightful)
I find it interesting that you draw a link between an advocacy group such as the KKK whom actively goes out and tries to persuade others of their own beliefs and a gay-friendly guild (note that gay-friendly != gay-only) whom actively play a video game; just because a minority gro
Re:Okay. (Score:2)
If this is true, how come we're here talking about it. Did a GM snoop in on their private meetings and then post a story to Slashdot or somethi
Re:Okay. (Score:3, Insightful)
Except they said it as "GLTB-friendly"
And, god forbid, they made sure people knew this, in public.
The nerve.
Re:Okay. (Score:2)
No gay based organizations are 'hate' based groups who's primary message is suppressing others.
If I create an American Guild, I say thats fine, you're american and prowd. Even if you're not american, you may really like america and join the guild anyways. But, if I create a Europe, asia, australia sucks guild, it not based on loving who you are, its based on hating others. Its a fine line in some cases through. I could say "Manifest Destiny" (Guild on
Re:Okay. (Score:2)
If you kill someone, it's murder.
If you kill someone because they're gay, black, white, Muslim, Christian, fat, stupid, bigoted, or politically correct, it's still murder.
Same goes for slander, stealing, assault, verbal abuse, and every other detrimental thing one person can do to another.
Realities:
Humans beings often hate vari
Re:Okay. (Score:2)
One of them is inclusive, the other is exclusive. I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which.
wait wait wait wait... (Score:4, Funny)
WOO-HOO!!!
Re:wait wait wait wait... (Score:2)
Heh heh. That freeedom thing is a real bitch, ain't it?
Re:wait wait wait wait... (Score:2, Insightful)
Na, I think more people are just shocked it still exists in various places in the United States after 4 years of King George.
But hey don't worry, he just established 'anther governement program' for a religious department in the Govt.
Love the conservative Republican Ideals King George has, which are to 'stick his nose into everyone's lives, even circumventing states rights, and the ability to keep spending and increasing the size of the Government to
Re:wait wait wait wait... (Score:3, Funny)
Only because it wasn't put to a vote. j/k
and the wow forums ring with... (Score:2, Funny)
"Gay Guild"? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know why?
Because I would be more comfortable in a guild that is accepting of gays.
Why is this shit so hard for people to understand?
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
The examples you cite are within the context of the game I am playing.
Before you come back with what you mistaken believe to be 'wit', I will state to you now, that no, I wouldn't care if the relationship between two of the characters in WoW were gay. I stated t
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
But isn't that the whole point? uhh nevermind.
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
If you belived that, you'd be pretty much 100% wrong.
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
"KY, the gay-friendly solution to all your lubrication needs."
Hmm, it has a certain ring to it. Can we copyright this?
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
Obviously you haven't read the background story on this particular incident, and you're just spewing your own nonsense right now.
Let me try and educate you, since you're too lazy to look it up on your own. I'm sure I will fail, but that's beside the point.
The guild recruitment message that started all this nonsense was trying to recruit people, straight or gay, to join a GBLT-friendly guild, not so that they could converse about anal sex and the like, but so that they
Re:"Gay Guild"? (Score:2)
No, they'll just have to listen to
"DIE FAGGOT!" before they get ganked...
Perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
yay real world! (Score:2, Interesting)
I think this is the last straw. No more wow for me. Its not a fantasy wolrd to escape to a
Re:yay real world! (Score:2)
Re:yay real world! (Score:2)
P.S. Btw, where do I sign up for these guilds?
Re:yay real world! (Score:2)
On a Coleco Adam.
There was an alternative (Score:5, Insightful)
What was pissing people off was banning some real-world social preferences but not others.
Re:There was an alternative (Score:3, Funny)
Re:yay real world! (Score:2)
Look into it.
Re:yay real world! (Score:2)
OTOH, if the next generation of fighting in the mid-easy happens in a computer game, that I am all for it.
mid-easy..haha (Score:2)
That is both a typo and an ironic statement.
Role Playing as gay (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Role Playing as gay (Score:2)
Legal liability..... (Score:2, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legal liability..... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Legal liability..... (Score:2)
(And why exactly would an eight-year-old be playing a game rated "Teen" that features constant murder and dismemberment?)
Re:Legal liability..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, if one looks at the statistics, I'd be much more frightened of leaving my child with straight people than gay.
Look For My New Guild! (Score:2, Funny)
New Guild (Score:2, Troll)
Re:New Guild (Score:2, Funny)
What Blizzard can and cannot do (Score:4, Insightful)
I find it funny that Lambda thinks that they can tell Blizzard what it's own terms of service may be. Last time I checked, Blizzard was providing a subscription service. You don't like the terms? Stop paying them and go somewhere else. That's your right and your choice. They can be as discriminatory as they want and while it may piss some people off, that's their perogative.
Re:What Blizzard can and cannot do (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah! Right on! And the same goes for Alabama bus services, right? If you don't like the seating arrangements, then go take a cab!
Fuckwit.
Re:What Blizzard can and cannot do (Score:2)
There are alternate transportation methods rather than busses, so that excuse obviously didn't work back then. You can't advertise your service to the public unless you actually intend to let the public access it fairly.
If this had been a race issue it would have been much clearer. (And louder, I'm sure.)
Am I g
Re:What Blizzard can and cannot do (Score:4, Insightful)
According to Lambda's letter to Blizzard, "Discrimination against LGBT individuals in the provision of public accommodations is clearly prohibited by California law. Id., see also, Cal. Civ. Code 51 et seq. It has been so for more than fifty years. Stouman v. Reilly, 234 P.2d 969 (Cal. 1951)."
It would appear that Blizzard's lawyers didn't find this particularly funny.
Read Blizzard's Policy (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not the case now, nor has it ever been. Blizzared never banned gay chat in public channels, only insulting references to sexuality. And descriptions of sexual acts always have been, and continue to be, forbidden. The policy has not changed.
So before you have a freak out, you might want to read the posted policy. It's here:
http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm0171
Oddly enough... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Oddly enough... (Score:2)
Which stems from servival of the species, which I can totally understand.
Bet they can't talk about... (Score:2)
Fucking Political Correctness (Score:3)
It's a game. I don't give two shits about the nightelf I'm teamed up with prefering to suck cock while I'm killing 50 bunnies to get a patch of fur to craft a new tunic or whatever lame ass quest I'm on. I don't feel compelled to talk about screwing chicks while I play a game. Gay/lesbian people need to ease up on this force-feeding of their views and lifestyle on everyone else. It's a game, just fucking play it. Period.
I wonder if they would decide the same way (Score:2)
You would think, under equal rights, that one does not need to say X-Friendly in their guild or chats and just accept everyone equally? Doing so is sort of starting a segigation between groups of people, saying one type they are friendly to, but not mentioning what other types they are friendly to. It makes
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
Of course, individules can effect change which propagates into the majority, and thus redefines the majority.
So to answer your question, yes. it does make it ok.
From my experience, most people are not bigots but that is another issue.
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
It was to put in rules that ensured freedom fron tyranny, for the majority at the time. i.e. White males.
However is was written like a reed, so it can flex with the people.
This allowed people, small organization and minorities to enact change. So now we(and I include myself) look at those times and say they were wrong. But we are judging them from now, outside the context of that time.
Being frusterated with Christianity (Score:3, Interesting)
Ever made a comment about "Kool-Aid drinkers" or cult members otherwise?
That is how a lot of us feel about the Christian right. Except said Kool-Aid drinkers don't hurt anyone but themselves, but the Christian right is out pushing anti-gay marriage amendments, trying to have the adopted children o
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
I don't wantr to here about football scores when playing WoW. That makes me intolerant of football score in that setting. There is nothing wrong with that.
For the record, I don't want to hear about someone sexual preferences, football scores, automobiles, or politics in the game.
However I don't hate homesexuals, football, or automobiles.
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you were referring to discussion about GLBT issues and discussion topics...that would be one thing...but what the hell is wrong with advertising that something is friendly to those people. Its the same as having an advert for any other type of guild. This wasn't "chatter"...it was a fairly succinct advert.
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2, Informative)
I actually canceled my wow-subscription over this. To be honest I was looking for a reason to cancel but whatever.
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
that is a game references.
beready for the danish-hatefull* guilds advertising.
*alright, no one could hate the danes, but you get my point.
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:2)
*alright, no one could hate the danes, but you get my point.
Well, except for a few million people in the muslim world who don't like their cartoons...
People are celebrating already (Score:2)
-Eric
Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (Score:4, Insightful)
Heh, that sounds like the people that complain about gay pride parades. "I dont' care if they're gay, but why do they have to parade it around all the time?!?!?!?"
Heh, I'll tell you why: Because these people have been shunned and ousted from society from so long, and they're sick of it. They're proud of who they are, and they want to be able to express themselves and their way of life freely the same way that the rest of the world does...
Your comment almost sounds like you think that homosexuals should all just stay in the closet...
Re:Laid to rest? (Score:2, Insightful)
People shouldn't be offended by the EXISTENCE of other people. Think about a guild that has a lot of black people in it. Your logic would say that it should then be fine to have anti-black guilds also.
Re:Laid to rest? (Score:4, Funny)
You've obviously never been to 0.0 space in Eve...
Re:Laid to rest? PARENT NOT TROLL (Score:2)
We only tolerate positive statements towards GLBT players, and only actual GLBT players will be allowed to decide what is positive and what is not. Negatvie statements are never to be allowed such freedom because we
Re:Laid to rest? PARENT NOT TROLL (Score:2, Insightful)
It's protection of players' rights. There is no ban on what you say in private chat (whether guild, party, raid, or whispers) to another friend. In fact, when I play with my roommate, I'll call him a useless nigger faggot in a whisper or while we're questing together.
But if somebody calls me a dirty sand nigger faggot cunt twat boy in public chat, then that is NOT allowed. I'm not gay, but if I were, I'd expect to be able to play without hearing slurs about people like me and in
Re:Cancelled Account (Score:2)
True Faggot? That's a new one on me. I've seen chaotic good, awful evil, True Neutral... is True Faggot something unique to WoW?
Everyone knows what dark elves are like anyway. Filthy sods. Hell, elves are all a bit morally questionable. I mean, you never see a half-dwarf. Or a half-hobbit. Unless they're called Quarterlings or something.
Re:Straights-Only Guild? (Score:2)
I don't know, but since this wasn't a "gays only" guild, your point is kinda moot.
Re:Straights-Only Guild? (Score:2)
Anyone ever beat the ever-loving shit out of you because they saw you holding hands with a member of the opposite sex? Anyone ever kick you out of a restaurant simply because you "look straight"? Anyone ever run up to you on the street and spit in your face, screaming "DIE, BREEDER!" when they saw you with your opposite-sex partner? Ever been fired from a job because you mentioned your opposiite-sex partner? Ever been raped by the police and then had to watch as your opposite-se
Re:Title should read: (Score:3, Insightful)
Methinks it was more about people targeting them.
I mean, if a raging horde of violent heterosexual male rapists burst through the doors of the local YWCA, I doubt it would fly to say "well, honestly, if they didn't so blatantly advertise that there was nothing but women in there. I mean, that's just inciting this kind of thing."