'Games as Porn' Bill Passes Utah House 215
The state bill which attempts to equate gaming with pornography has passed the vote in the Utah house of representatives. GameDailyBiz reports: "Even though there's still no evidence of a direct link between video game violence and acts of violence committed in real-life, Hogue suggested that playing violent games leads to 'automatic learning of aggressive behavior,' and that violent games have played a role in school shootings. 'Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not,' he said, referring to the Columbine massacre."
"Maybe not?" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:5, Insightful)
These idiots who think they can save the world by denying people the right to look at the "wrong" things would be comical if they didn't so often succeed in getting idiotic laws passed. Humans enjoy ritualized violence, whether it's playing tackle football, boxing, hunting, video games, movies ... that's not going to change until humans either evolve away from it or become extinct.
Taking away access to this stuff in no way takes away the innate human desire for it, and pretending otherwise is just willful stupidity. Before kids had XBoxes they had cap guns. Before they had cap guns they had toy spears and sharp rocks. It's not the behaviors that have changed, just the tools and implementation. As for the Columbine kids, I'd argue that he's got it all wrong. The kids sought out and surrounded themselves with violent imagery because that's what spoke to their hearts and minds, in the same way another child might seek out beautiful landscape paintings or elegant progamming code or slapstick comedy or politics or religion or who knows what else. If he honestly thinks that some bright-eyed, angelic child with no evil or violence in her heart can pick up a copy of GTA and turn into a murderous freak, he's even stupider than I give him credit for already. I'd also argue that if they hadn't had access to violent imagery they'd have probably been more inclined to create their own (torturing animals, etc.).
Just because kids are imitative enough to use what they've seen in games or movies as templates for their own acts of violent stupidity doesn't mean they wouldn't have come up with something else on their own if they hadn't had something to imitate. I love action movies, murder mysteries, violent video games. I've committed virtual murder who knows how many times and loved it. I still remember blowing bodies all to pieces in Soldier of Fortune, sniping brains all over the walls and gleefully mutilating corpses. But you know what else? The thought of gleefully or even accidentally hurting an actual person or animal is repulsive to me, just as it is to any healthy human being no matter how many slasher flicks they've watched or virtual corpses they've dismembered. The notion that the majority of us shouldn't be able to do a thing because a tiny, dysfunctional minority might not be able to handle it is absurd.
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:4, Insightful)
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they went after the potheads, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a pothead. Next, they went after the protesters, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a protester. After that, they tried to crack down on unwholesome music, but I wasn't a musician so I said nothing. Now, they've gone after games and I have no excuse on which to base my arguments.
(with apologies to Pastor Martin Niemöller.)
And yes, I realize the seriousness of the original context... but I couldn't help mentioning the similarity.
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:2)
Then they went after the potheads, and I did speak up even though I am not a pothead, because downsides of the "war on drugs" far more than what it tries to achieve (think prohibition).
Next, they went after the protesters, and I did speak because the right to protest is sealed in the constitiution as a human right (at least where I liv
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:2)
-
...except... (Score:2)
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:2)
Mountain Meadows Massacre [utlm.org]
Thier early history was very violent. They were not always the victims as they claimed.
Re:"Maybe not?" (Score:2)
...and somehow everyone in Utah is a Mormon. I don't see how your post has anything to do with the topic at hand. This is a discussion about politics... not religion.
That being said... from what I read about this bill, it's a mistake. The simple fact that Gayle Ruzicka is behind it should clue you to that.
Yes they would have. (Score:1)
Re:Yes they would have. (Score:2)
ban school (Score:3, Insightful)
ban bullies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ban bullies (Score:2)
Re:ban school (Score:2)
-Steve
Re:Feticide is not the answer. (Score:2)
Re:ban school (Score:2)
Its complete fallacy. Would they have done it without violent video games? well fuck lets go get a time machine and test that one out.
May as well go back and test out aborting them... its an equally valid argument.
And its not about whether a fetus is a human life on abortion either. Its about whether a fetus deserves protection of "basic human rights". _I_
Re:ban school (Score:2)
> comas, or people under the age of (let's say around) 5
> years old.
Yah pretty much. However I would argue something closer to 2 or 3, have to cut it off somewhere and the beginings of learning language seem like a good cut off.
Coma? Well a person in a comma can recover. So I think we should generally let them. However, if their prognosis is that they wont recover or will be nearly brain dead.... then may as well call a spade a damned shovel a
Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2, Funny)
Like this is a surprise, it's Utah which according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah [wikipedia.org]
Tell me no one saw this coming.
Re:Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2)
Orgazmo [imdb.com]
Re:Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2)
Uhm...that's all I have so far....
Dave
Re:Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2, Interesting)
To explain that, I had a contract job in Provo, and we stayed in the suburbs of Salt Lake City at a motel (hotel?-don't remember) and I still can't get past the brochure in the room we stayed at BRAGGING about SLC (Salt Lake City) being settled by 167 men, 8 women, 23 (I think it was 23- could be wrong, but I'm sure about the 167 men and 8 women), and mention of livestock that settled SLC. How did
Re:Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2)
Re:Number of good things to come out of Utah: (Score:2)
Ia Ia Cthulhu phtagn
I imagine life as a Mormon is tough for him...
Yes, a whole new category of criminal (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a law brought to you by the people who want intelligent design taught in school.
It also an example of why people are disgusted with legislators around the country.
Well I Don't Know (Score:3, Insightful)
However, what disturbs me about many youth is that they do not think twice about getting a hand gun. I grew up in the country or cottage country to be exact and guns were common things. Though guns were used to go hunting for bea
Re:Well I Don't Know (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm suprised that people target games which feature gun violence, but ignore the glorified violence in other media. (Movies, pop music, etc)
Re:Well I Don't Know (Score:2)
I would say movies give the ideas, video games let you live out the ideas virtually, and then well the next step is... Not for everybody I say, but for some...
Re:Well I Don't Know (Score:2)
Re:Well I Don't Know (Score:2)
When I was in school, handguns and rifles were easier to get, and many of us had rifles. We watched Robocop, Terminator, and Lethal Weapon. We listened to music with lyrics like "Raise an army of rabid rats, beat your neighbor with a bat!". We did not have a problem with guns or knives in school (some students HAD knives, but they were not used).
There is an elephant in the room here. We hear all about video games, TV, and movies. What we don't hear about is the clear message of zero tolerance (you are an
What about war? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that it isn't a question of aggressive behavior per se, it is where the aggresive behavior comes from that matters. In other words it is bullshit.
Re:What about war? (Score:2)
An idiotic theory? (Score:2)
I mean, really! If you are going to tell someone they are an idiot for proposing a connection between schoolyard violence and war, then you had better do more than invoke what you are "fairly certain" you will never hear as the basis for your counter-argument.
Because otherwise, you look like the kettle calling the pot black.
TV/Movies/Games has more impact than News (Score:2)
Nope. I was in elementary school during the Vietnam War. I recall seeing fragments of combat footage on the news. When friends and I played violent games we did not emulate or act out the news footage, we emulated TV and movies of the early 70s. Play was World War II themed, SWAT themed, etc. One friend's mom didn't allow toy guns, no problem his dad's old discarded golf clubs were fine s
Confusion (Score:1)
"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not,"
Maybe he was trying to outlaw violence in movies and got his media mixed up?
A Bold Positive Step (Score:5, Interesting)
If we don't act now, school shootings will continue to rise, the violent murders will continue to increase, and our children will continue to live shorter and shorter lives in this terrible and violent world.
Taking Bets (Score:2)
Re:Taking Bets (Score:2)
Sad to say, there's no idea so dumb that some folks haven't tried it [ala.org].
Re:Taking Bets (Score:2)
Re:Taking Bets (Score:2)
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:1)
we can only hope it won't come to it.
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:2)
What, you think when Moses and his merry men got to the Promised Land of Caanan it was just sitting there empty, waiting for them to mosey on in and set up a country?
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:2)
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course the people most in need of enlightenment would just be horrified by our "perversion of the holy word", and wouldn't learn a thing.
Re:And you would have gotten away with it... (Score:2)
If these books teach nothing else, if that lady named Jessica Fletcher [wikipedia.org] shows up in your town, you should hold off on your murder plans
Outrageous, or not far from the mark? (Score:2)
Re:A Bold Positive Step (Score:2)
You joke but the British Library (and I presume other libraries) has a special room that the general public is not allowed access to which contains all the very disturbing works that have been published over the years. Most of them are S&M and that sort of thing and many are technically illegal under current laws. The library has to keep them because they are legally bound to keep a copy of every book published in the UK.
Misleading headline (Score:1, Funny)
Before everyone freaks out... (Score:5, Informative)
2. If you are in Utah, don't worry. I'm in Utah now, and guess one of the two will happen:
a. It won't pass the Senate, as legislative sessions here are remarkably short anyways (just a bill to get a little attention). It will simply die with time.
b. If it does pass the Senate, my money is on a "pocket" veto, pretty much just ignoring the bill. The Utah senate this year is farily tied up as it is.
In any case, here's the text for the bill [state.ut.us] and the ammendment [state.ut.us] for those interested. It'd be nice if the submitters included this information when they sent in an article on pending legislation.
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:3, Insightful)
I live in Utah and this is the first I've heard of this.
The slashdot summary is a bit misleading. I found this nice sum-up description after following the "previous coverage" link in the article. You can also confirm this using the links the parent poster has supplied.
"The bill states that "inappropriate violence" would include video games with material patently offensive to the prevailing standards in the adult community, as long as it didn'
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:2)
1. If you're not in Utah, don't worry. This isn't going to affect you. So pipe down already and focus on preventing it in your own backyard.
I don't know that that's necessarily true. Much as I'd like it too, Utah doesn't live in a vacuum with respect to the rest of the United States. Sucessful legislation in one state percolates into the other states. Stupid crap like this only emboldens the pro-censorship people. Also, video game manufacturers might try to change content so they'll be able to sell in U
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:2)
No, I will not pipe down.
The Utah is in the U.S., and the U.S. is my backyard. If the U.S. wants to promote the principles of freedom around the world (whether it should or not is another debate) it must at least be an example of such freedom itself first.
So everytime some backwards hillbillies come along and try limiting that freedom with their warped version of morality, I will grab a fucking megaphone and pipe up.
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:2)
[/tongue-in-cheek]
Admittedly, we know democracy doesn't actually work that way (in that it's not "all the people of Utah" but just representatives elected by a relative majority, and not necessarily acting according to the will of the people)
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but if you don't live in Utah, are you going to tell the people of Utah that they're not allowed nor entitled to censor themselves if they want to?
As a citizen of the United States that still has a first amendment, yes, I'm quite prepared to tell some people of Utah that they can't censor other people in Utah. If one individual wants to censor themself (whatever that means) that's entirely different.
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:2)
> means) that's entirely different.
Actually theres a term for that... its called shutting the fuck up.
Re:Before everyone freaks out... (Score:2, Informative)
Mod parent UP - INFORMATIVE (Score:2)
It's dead in the water, no hope for it.
Automatic Aggressive Behavior... (Score:2)
Re:Automatic Aggressive Behavior... (Score:2)
Try to remember... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Max
Re:Try to remember... (Score:2)
Games are now porn! (Score:5, Funny)
NO NO NO NO NO. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:NO NO NO NO NO. (Score:2)
That's what these idiots who want to ban stuff don't get. Kids are tribal, and like any tribe, will attempt to eliminate nonconformists (kids who are different, or foreign, or whatever). And the kids who feel bullied will WANT to strike back, whether they actually act on it or not. And this goes on whether they have violent games and porn or not. But lack of an outlet for these feelings (and violent games
Re:NO NO NO NO NO. (Score:2)
I've also noticed that even people who don't have kids often forget this, as they go thru the "I'm an adult now, so I know everything better than kids do" stage. I don't have kids, but I was old enough to be a grandparent before I really understood the issue. Maybe it's just having enough life experience to gain pers
Surprising (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Surprising (Score:2)
-
Just one more shameful bill from the Utah Leg. (Score:2, Flamebait)
Every morning, my local public radio station does a legislative summary from the non-partisan League of Women Voters. A good day is one when I only have four or five stomach-clenching moments of impotent r
This is stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
And, Dastardly said, "It is worth a try to keep these bills from being passed otherwise we give up and say the politicians will always determine our values."
Re:This is stupid. (Score:2, Informative)
FWIW, I am in favor of having access to both real and virtual guns. I just like to point out the lunacy of elected officials.
Also, her page says elsewhere about "Family," "I will do all I can to pass and support legislation that protects the traditional family from government encroachment. I will fight for what is right against any govern
Re:This is stupid. (Score:2)
noun: Deciding that you dislike the way other people want to live their lives and that you dislike the way they raise their kids, so therefore you get the nice young men in blue uniforms to force your prefferences on them at gunpoint.
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Don't worry... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, forget the news (Score:2)
Kids would be much less prone to violence if we made them watch the news instead of playing video games. I'm sure the Iraq war wouldn't inspire anyone to violence.
I am actually against gun control laws (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I am actually against gun control laws (Score:2)
Future Visioneering... (Score:2)
Violent Video games today.
Violent History Books tommorow.
Sorry, my knee just jerked and made me type this.
Games... No evidence... Maybe... Columbine!!! (Score:2)
What about the availability of firearms? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't like Mondays (Score:3, Informative)
There were school shootings long before video games started to take off, and long before the advent of the kind of graphic ultraviolence that this bill targets....
Re: (Score:2)
I can't help it. I stomp winged turtles on sight (Score:2, Funny)
Also whenever I'm in a big box store I get the urge to run through the aisles, eating fruit off the floor and dodging obese people in brightly colored mumus
(Games = porn) = (ban on porn = extinction)? (Score:3, Funny)
If this is true, then only people watching porn can reproduce. Hence if porn is banned, there
will be no sex and no next generation anymore.
The other way round, in order to ensure reproduction in the developed countries, free,
high-quality porn should be available to everybody. Since games = porn, the same should
be true for games.... I think I like this law!
I also have a nagging suspicion: Do all these overpopulated 3rd world countries have better
and more porn than we do?
*sigh* (Score:2)
Re:*sigh* (Score:2)
Might I suggest Puerto Rico?
It's a territory, or possession or some such rather than a state
Dear God. (Score:2)
Yes, this is obvious (Score:2)
Re:Make sure to RTFA... (Score:1)
Re:Make sure to RTFA... (Score:2)
Re:Score so far (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
Indeed. It's sad to say but we didn't have such a gun violence problem back in the day when drugs were legal and any adult could buy a thompson subgun in a sears without showing so much as a drivers license... what the hell have we done? Oh, we've created blackmarkets by creating bans on what were once legal goods... So, banning more of these goods will do what?
Re:Score so far (Score:3, Insightful)
Aye, because firearms bans are working so well elsewhere [nationalreview.com].
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
Pathetic.
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
get past the idea of "gun violence" and look at violence, rape and theft in general. You'll find something that may astound you, at least in Japan.
So, are you going to continue to be a fucking AC or are you going to own up to what you say and come out of the shadows?
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
I'm just gonna, you know, go ahead and nullify that flamebait moderation. Dear libertarian asswipes, go back to Fark.
Re:Score so far (Score:2)
Ok, ok. The deal is that I was making the case that we'll always have people killing each other w/ guns as long as we have guns. For a politician to address this by trying to ban videogames seems like pure cowardice. Nowhere in my post did I advocate repealing the 2nd amendment (I own a few rifles myself, and enjoy reading about
Re:How to stop the 'fad'. (Score:2)
Re:Wrong question! (Score:2)
Their parents did not provide the guns. Many were obtained on the black market.
Re:free training (Score:2)