Ian Clarke and Freenet in the Crosshairs 493
EMIce writes "John Markoff of the New York Times writes of Ian, "Though he says his aim is political - helping dissidents in countries where computer traffic is monitored by the government, for example - Mr. Clarke is open about his disdain for copyright laws, asserting that his technology would produce a world in which all information is freely shared. ... Now, however, Mr. Clarke is taking a fresh approach, stating that his goal is to protect political opponents of repressive regimes." Wasn't freenet originally about dissent? Mr. Markoff appears to be re-writing a history that he probably only knows through a handful of lexis-nexis searches." Update: 08/01 18:32 GMT by T : Ian Clarke wrote to point out his comment posted to the story which lays out the actual subject of his Defcon talk.
Notable quote (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah.
Because the United States and China are so similar when it comes to oppressing free speech and jailing political dissidents. It's clearly impossible in the US to criticize the government, or even have imagery of the president with a bullet hole in his head on the tob banner of your web site [immortal-technique.com].
If anyone can give actual provable examples of the US government abridging Constitutionally protected free speech, I'd love to hear it.
(Note: traveling to Afghanistan, training in Taliban camps, and planning to blow up buildings in downtown Chicago with radiological dirty bombs is not "free speech".)
If you're looking for trampling of free speech, you needn't look to the government; you need only look no further than our own academic institutions [thefire.org].
Re:Notable quote (Score:2, Insightful)
The refusal of the secret service to allow demonstrations anywhere near the president ( "free speech zones" ) and the recent raids on server farms hosting indymedia websites could be described as state-sponsored restrictions of free speech.
A Problem Freenet Faces (Score:5, Insightful)
In order to accurately discuss Scientology you need access to documents they claim are copyrighted and sell only at extornist prices. Open informed discussion brings lawsuits.
Yet free speech via Freenet brings charges that it is just a method used to violate copyrights.
How do you reconcile these two, divergent views?
Re:The writeup for this article is confusing (Score:5, Insightful)
The writeup isn't confusing...the article itself is, and purposefully so.
From TFA: In the second sentence, Mr. Markoff insinuated that the original purpose of Freenet wasn't to protect political opponents of repressive regimes, when in fact Freenet's stated purpose was always, and still is, to combat censorship.
In other words, Mr Markoff is intentionally distorting established history for his own ends, but given his history, that's not too surprising.
Re:"cause" and "effect" (Score:2, Insightful)
"So anyone have any anecdotal examples of were Freenet has actually helped any Dissidents?"
That's a tough one, since the absence of evidence is the entire point of the system.
Re:Notable quote (Score:5, Insightful)
That depends. Is your wife a CIA agent?
Re:Notable quote (Score:4, Insightful)
None of which are forms of speech protected by the Constitution.
Interesting assertion... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the Wayback Machine archive of May 2000 [archive.org]:
Another page from the Wayback Machine [archive.org]:
Freenet's political goal isn't revisionist history. Implying that it's intended for copyright infringement is.
Re:Echelon and the Patriot Act (Score:2, Insightful)
Since when does our Constitution apply to citizens of other countries?
Select parts of the constitution only apply to citizens. Otherwise, everyone is entitled to the rights specified in the constitution (right to trial by jury, court appointed lawyer, etc.) The constitution is not merely a document defining the powers of the government, but a document on human rights that ALL PEOPE ARE ENTITLED TO. Hell, it took the country another 150+ years to fully realize it.
Since when does it apply to POW's?
Wait, I thought they weren't POWs but Unlawful Combatants. At least that's what Dubya's saying so they don't get coverage under the Geneva convention. Which means they're criminals arrested by the US and thus subject to the laws regarding our legal system.
Nobody is going to search your library records.
We don't know this, now do we? Nor can we know since they can't legally speak about such incidents!
The only one who's painting a malformed picture is you, tainted with a rosy color.
Re:Notable quote (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a group, say the Republicans, trying to have a meeting. Then another group, say PETA, wants to protest. The city says that PETA can have a protest, but it must be a few blocks away from the Republicans.
What right to peacibly assemble has been infringed?
None.
The guys at PETA want to disrupt the Republican's right to assemble. Not the other way around. By seperating the groups, everyone can assemble and no one has their rights removed; either by the government or by each other.
Now, you can be an anarchast and claim that anyone should be able to assemble at anytime, but that'd just lead to chaos. The Republicans would be trying to talk while the PETA guys are yelling. The PETA guys would get their asses stomped by the Republican rednecks. Someone would kill a dog or eat a steak just for show. It'd be terrible.
Seperating the groups does not mean that anyone's right to speech has been removed.
Re:Notable quote (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess it would be too much to ask, since you linked to the Washington Post page, that you would read the Senate's "Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assemssment on Iraq [washingtonpost.com]" or at least its Conclusions [washingtonpost.com] - after all, they are linked off that same page...
For your edification, here is a small excerpt:
The assessment that "Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear program" was not supported by the intelligence provided to the committee.
Re:Echelon and the Patriot Act (Score:3, Insightful)
It's nice to see you have such blind trust in the government. My god man - wake up.
Re:Notable quote (Score:4, Insightful)
1. I didn't know we were only talking about Bush.
I referenced Bush because he's the one who is setting up the "Free Speech Zones" that we were discussing. This is where anyone who would make him look bad on television is confined (i.e. those who would boo him, those who would wave banners where the cameras could see, etc.) Anyone wanting to assasinate him is, allowing for sanity, not going to make themselves part of this group. They'll make themselves part of the flag-waving, cheering crowds who are aloud in media range of the president.
As to integrating into a huge mob of people? Absurd! You pull out a gun in the midst of a crowd of protestors, point it at the president and see how quickly you get mobbed and flattened. And if you did, see how quickly you can run away through that "huge mob" you describe. And you see all those coppers who are positioned to keep order? Do you see where they're keeping order? That's right - they're paying special attention to the protesting people, as they always do.
Trying to use a mob of protestors as cover for an assasination is only a hinderance compared to not using them.
The only scenario in which a mob will be a benefit to an assasination, is when it's a mob of people who all want to assasinate the president. And if that's the case, it ain't assasination you're dealing with. It's an intifada.
Re:Notable quote (Score:4, Insightful)
So now, the whole Iraq issue is that they violated the UN Security Council resolutions? Oh my, how did I miss that?
Of course Iraq was violating the post-Gulf War resolutions. The reason given to go to war, however, was to prevent an existing and immediate threat of materializing. Wilson's trip was to investigate a specific report, not whether Iraq had tried to buy uranium at some time in general.
As for impropriety, this is always determined by the power and decision making structures involving the participants. Was Valerie Plame the person who initiated the trip? Did she make the decision who will go on that trip? Was she in the position to make that decision? AFAIK, the answer of all three questions is "No."
As to the childish reasoning that she only got involved because the White House wanted to discredit Wilson's article, why does the administration have a need to discredit the truth? (BTW, this is where the Senate's report is relevant - even with Iraq's violations of the UN resolutions, there was, and is no evidence that they did anything with their nuclear program). Even if you really believe that it was simply incompetence not to know about the rules regarding CIA operatives' identities (i.e. always assume it is secret, unless specifically told otherwise), it is still criminal incompetence.
To get back to the original issue - "outing" Valerie Plame was a goivernment retaliation against a published article. Whether it was to discredit the author, to ruin his wife's carrier, or to endanger her life, it doesn't matter - it is still a free speach issue, especially since the intelligence supports the aformentioned article.
Re:Notable quote (Score:1, Insightful)
You say you'd love to hear it, but deep down, you don't want to hear it at all.
Where to draw the line? (Score:3, Insightful)
Someone complained that about the preventing protests too close to the president. How do they feel on limiting how close protesters can be to abortion clinics? Another talks about how valuable hiding you identity is when you speak but how do they feel about Microsoft funding studies about Linux? I have seen people post that allowing kiddie porn is a price they are willing to pay for free speech. If I had the home address and phone number of someone that was unpopular on Slashdot should I have the right to post it? Should I have the right to lie about them?
Re:Echelon and the Patriot Act (Score:4, Insightful)
Here is the FBI's evidence against Richard Jewel:
I remember believing our leadership "must have some evidence" of WMD in Iraq!Re:Echelon and the Patriot Act (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't believe I have to bother pointing this out, but Civil Rights and Human Rights are very -- repeat very different beasts...
The Constitution lays out our Civil Rights or our Civil Liberties -- it makes no assertions of human rights, and as such, is meant to only apply to citizens of this Republic!
Human rights, while more basic and less extensive, are supposed to apply to all...but try telling that to China. When you're back, if you make it, make sure you tell