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50Mbps Cable Launched on Long Island 291

the-dark-kangaroo writes "Cable Vision have teamed up with Narad Networks to provide a new 50Mbps broadband service in the New York metropolitan area. The current deployment has a capability of 100Mbps (the connections are symmetric) with future developments allowing up to 10Gbps connections. The system utilises current cabling systems allowing enterprise level connections to homes and businesses."
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50Mbps Cable Launched on Long Island

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  • In other news (Score:5, Informative)

    by Psionicist ( 561330 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @07:42PM (#12937076)
    Here in Sweden you can already get 100 mbit up/down without limitations or caps for around 45 USD ( ) in an assortment of locations, not only universities. It's even better in Japan and Korea I think.
  • by weevlos ( 766887 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @07:47PM (#12937111) Homepage
    Last time I had service with them, I had latency shoot up to above 1000ms two router hops ahead of me for about 7 hours a day. Absolutely useless service, would not advise anyone to fall for their marketing.
  • by TERdON ( 862570 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @07:55PM (#12937162) Homepage [] (sorry, in swedish). And there might be a cap on that connection, I don't really know.

    And also, IIRC, those gigabit connections were available in Japan/Korea before in Sweden, don't have any link to use as confirmation though.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @07:59PM (#12937186)
    People who download linux cds over bittorrent are warez homos? I had my uploads capped just for that.
  • by DosBubba ( 766897 ) <> on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:01PM (#12937192)
    I do not have a problem with OOL capping their users. What I do have a problem with is making the limits invisible.

    I have some relatives up in the New Jersey area. They generally run Bit Torrent all night, at a full 100Kbps (On non-standard ports). The one time they upload some pictures to one of my servers via FTP on port 20, they get capped. I'm agreeing with the Anonymous Coward here, OOL's capping system seems to be designed for preventing users from running servers.

    I will give OOL this though, uncapping is a painless procedure.
  • by DeepRedux ( 601768 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:03PM (#12937212)
    The Dolan family, who controls CableVision, have just proposed a $7.9B leveraged buyout of the cable assets. To get the cash, they are planning on selling $4.25B in junk bonds []. This would be the second largest junk bond offering in history, after the RJR ("Barbarians at the Gate") junk bond.
  • Re:In other news (Score:3, Informative)

    by Alef ( 605149 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:05PM (#12937222)
    Actually, at least in Västerbotten [], optical fiber networks are built to most households (even in villages). It currently costs about 20 USD per month (175 SEK) for 100 Mb, although there is an installation fee of about 1000 USD.
  • by cbreaker ( 561297 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:08PM (#12937241) Journal
    You couldn't have 50Mbit down, 16Kbit up. You need enough upstream in order to send acknowledgement packets, not only on the TCP level but on the application level if so required (which often is.) With 16kBit, you might be able to reach 384Kbit downstream. MAYBE.

    When my cable went to 4Mbit, they increased the upstream to 512Kbit. When I'm downloading at a full 4Mbit via http, I'm almost completely saturating the 512Kbit upstream. So they didn't increase my upstream because they were just feeling nice, they did it because they had to, so the downstream would scale upwards.

    If it were really 50Mbit downstream, they'd need to give something like 8Mbit up, or at the very least 4. Unless, of course, it's just a marketing gimmick and they're using the lack of upstream to effectively cap the downstream where they want it.

  • by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:12PM (#12937263) Journal
    Those are some pretty big and mighty words there.

    Since it's apparent that you don't understand how it works, I'll let you know that blocks that aren't requested don't propagate and are eventually dropped. I can run a freenet node fully content in the knowlege that unless the billion people in China are suddenly all pedophiles, the Chinese blocks are statistically more likely to exist than the child porn blocks.

    So, what Chinese Blog [] have you hosted recently? What's that? You're not doing your part to clean freenet of child porn?

  • by LoRdTAW ( 99712 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:26PM (#12937373)
    Yea but cable vision in brooklyn always sucked. One kid I used to know lived on the Brooklyn Queens border in cityline (not more then 10 blocks from me) always had complaints. Out on LI I have a few friends and they dont have any complaints.

    I live in south queens and we have Time Warner cable at one home and Verizon 3.0/768 DSL at another. No complaints with either service (except the RR cable is much faster and more responsive then the DSL). I know a few people with RR cable from TW and they also never have a complaints.

    Verizon is deploying FIOS in the metro area too but they left out NYC. It always appears that NYC and other major cities are left for last with Broadband. Its probably too costly to beploy fibre in densely populated areas. I personally would like to get Fios since Verizon is also gearing up to deploy Digital TV services over Fios. Hopefully it will be as good or better then Time warner cable (it simply rocks).
  • by __aaijsn7246 ( 86192 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:27PM (#12937378)
    Cablevision isn't just doing this to be nice. Verizon is set to launch FiOS (Fiber Optic Service) in the area very shortly. In NJ they have been stringing fibers for the last few months.. I actually called them today and they told me I would be able to order fiber possibly as early as tomorrow. I'm currently an Optimum Online subscriber and am definitely going to be switching over ASAP.

    Their pricing plan is pretty good:

    Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $39.95
    Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $49.95
    Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps 199.95

    The number direct to the FiOS center is: 908-474-9728
    Verizon doesn't publicize it yet, but the people who answer do have access to a database telling them which switches are going live and when. Today when I called, I told asked if I was going to have service in my small town.. when he said no, I told him the local switch which served us (obtainable via Local Exchange Routing Guide). He acted very surprised and said that indeed we would have FiOS activated very soon now.

    Of course this was obvious as Verizon has spent $$$ wiring fiber everywhere which should be the next big thing(tm). They even replace the normal copper wires going to your house with fiber (doesn't work in a power outage though! I hope nobody gets upset about 911 ;) Or is it okay for fiber not to work during power outages as it is Verizon who supplies it rather than some upstart VoIP business that doesn't have the lobbying power that incumbent telcos do...?) If you have a pair of binoculars you can check out your poles and look for the little Corning boxes.
  • by bedroll ( 806612 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @08:38PM (#12937450) Journal
    Your packet loss issues sound familiar to me. When I was living in the next town over it seemed that there was either faulty equipment or the network in that area was oversold. Either way, the net effect was that I had a lot of packet loss issues and I was disconnected every couple of hours. Every time I was disconnected the only way the help-desk could get me reconnected was to have me hard-boot the modem (unplug it and plug it back in, no power switch). Several calls didn't fix this issue.

    What did fix the issue was moving. When I came to my present residence I found a faster and more reliable network waiting. I've had zero problems, even though I'm using the exact same setup as before.

    The point is, OO's network seems to be hit and miss depending on the neighborhood.
  • by mreed911 ( 794582 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @09:36PM (#12937776)
    Having worked for Time-Warner in the Roadrunner division, and having RTFA, let me be the one to smash your dreams:

    This is not a subscriber level service.

    Cable companies essentially have the same topology in HFC (hybrid fiber-coax) networks. They have their data center, with their connection to the backbone, and have fiber to several hubs, which are essentially the "regional" or "metropolitan" branch sites. From the hubs, served by fiber, coax is run to the individual nodes, which subscriber services are branched off from. What this is all about is the connection between hubs and nodes - there's more overhead bandwidth available farther downstream - but not yet to the customer premise. The four coax lines sent from the hub to the node can now support 100mbps symmetrical.

    This enhances the inter-nodal communications, the junctions between the fiber backbone most major cable companies have deployed and the coax they use to push their various signals out to consumer premises. In essence, they're getting 100mbps over coax for the four coax "pipes" used to support the node itself. While it's a big deal insomuch as it means they have a lot more ceiling with regards to bandwidth and deployment of available services, it's not the point that they've got fiber past the hubs to the individual nodes... yet. It does mean, however, that there's less need to deploy more nodes (read: capital expense) so they can spend that money on R&D and getting "faster" to go "farther." Ultimately, it'll end up with fiber to the pole, then finally fiber to the house.

    What it WILL mean? You should see an increase in upload caps sooner than you thought... and cable companies are getting ready for a lot, lot more HD and HD-on-demand services. Remember, their focus is still video - data is just an added bonus.

  • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @10:14PM (#12937999) Journal
    They're going to allow high-speed symmetric connections because there's demand from customers who are willing to pay more for it. The press release doesn't talk about pricing, but this isn't going to be the same $20-50/month that typical consumer cable modems cost, and probably not even the $50-100 that low-end business cable service costs. I'm guessing it's somewhere in the $500 range, maybe $150-1000.

    The interesting issues are going to be pricing, average throughput (e.g. how many people are you sharing your upstream with), and policies about port blocking (they're presumably going to allow web servers, because that's the kind of application that needs 50 Mbps upstreams.

    For a business, besides price, the technically cool thing about high-speed cable modem service is that it's not using the same wiring from your office to the telco POP that almost everything else users, so you get some protection from street construction crews and Bubba the Backhoe driver that you'd otherwise only be able to get by buying a higher-end fiber ring service from the telco or using a short-haul wireless connection to a nearby wireless provider. So depending on your price and reliability needs, you can either use this for cheap fast unreliable service, or for cheap reliability improvement to your existing more expensive service, as well as for cheap speed improvements to your regular service. After all, if what you really need is 5-10 Mbps, then getting a 50 Mbps service that's oversubscribed a bit too heavily and priced like a T1 line is almost always a big win.

    Repair Speed is the main business problem with cable modem services - the economics of providing $30/month service depend on piggybacking on consumer cable TV service, which means you've got enough technicians and repair trucks to go fix it if it breaks, but if it's Friday night in a bad snowstorm, and your customer's TV service goes out, they can just watch videos or play with their kids or read books until Monday when the snowplows have finished clearing the streets. Low-end "business" cable may mean you get better help-desk service, and maybe the truck goes to your building a bit earlier, but it doesn't put any more trucks on the street. This service may be priced high enough to pay for better service than that.

    Commuting on Long Island I used to have a project in Syosset that required me to commute there from central New Jersey for a month. Took about 1.5 hours each way, unless traffic was worse than usual, like the days that it was faster to walk across Staten Island than to drive. Hard drugs would have made driving too difficult, but a Grateful Dead concert tape is about the length of a round-trip, which was at least a good substitute. I tried taking the train one time when it was going to snow heavily - about 2.5 hours to get from Jersey to NYC to the LIRR to whatever the nearest station was, get a taxi to the office, and find out that they were closing because of snow (:-), and the LIRR was far noisier and bouncier than the New Jersey trains so it wasn't possible to do any real work while riding them.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 28, 2005 @10:20PM (#12938037)
    The problem is that OOL's network capacity varys greatly. At least 3 of the houses on my street have phone service via them. Also since they are the only choice for broadband in the area, just about everybody has it. ( well half anyway) But instead of some rational solutions like upgrading at the bottlenecks, or even throttling some users only when the load is high, they just toss out fixed caps to PUNISH their customers, for daring to actually USE this Internet thing.

Who goeth a-borrowing goeth a-sorrowing. -- Thomas Tusser