Microsoft Settles Minnesota Antitrust Suit 176
An anonymous reader writes "According to the Star Tribune: 'The Microsoft antitrust suit in Minnesota was settled out-of-court Monday seven weeks after it began, but before the plaintiffs even finished putting on their case before the jury. Terms of the settlement won't be disclosed until they are finalized and presented to a Hennepin County judge for preliminary approval 'in early summer,' Microsoft said in a statement. The antitrust suit in Hennepin Country District Court sought as much as half a billion dollars from Microsoft for alleged overcharges of more than 1 million Minnesota consumers and businesses who bought Microsoft Windows, Word or Excel software between 1994 and 2001.'"
What is Minnesota doing... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Seems like a bit of a stretch for a lawsuit to me. However, it must have gotten someone at Microsoft scared, else they wouldn't have settled it.
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:2, Informative)
And when he did have the option to settle in his civil suit, he didn't. And lost.
I bow before you, king of screwed up analogies!
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:1, Funny)
MG
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:2)
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure. They may have just as well want Minnesota to sign a document with terms that they never would have agreed to under normal circumstances. MN gets a cash payout, but inadvertently indemifies MS against all future action, lest they have to pay back the money. We all know MS can be sneaky about the fine print.
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:1)
IANAL, but my understanding is that any contract that allows one of the parties to break a law without penalties is thrown out in court. So a contract that allows M$ to continue overpricing and maintaining an illegal monopoly would not be valid, and in 2 years or so they could go back and do it again.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't write a contract that breaks a law and expect it to hold up in court for your defense.
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, MN is running out of money, but that isn't what this is about.
MN was one of the original states in the anti-trust lawsuit. When the other states settled, we didn't.
It just took this long to pan out.
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:2)
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:5, Insightful)
He and his buds only got about $250 million. (chump change) The state got $7 - $8 billion.
What I loved about the results of that case was that when the public found out how much money ($250 million) that one little lawyers firm got a lot of people were pretty upset. But our friendly attorney general said that amount was "fair" (I'll give you one guess as to what political party he's affiliated with). I wonder how jealous the state's lawyers were when they saw the millions of dollars that Mr Cerici and his buds got in comparison to their public (albeit still good) wages.
Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
How long will MS keep paying what looks to be hush money to make problems go away before someone notices that they are not chaging?
That is, of course, only one issue...i'm worried about what nberardi is worried about: at what point will legit suits against MS get tossed out because it looks/smells like a
Re:What is Minnesota doing... (Score:4, Insightful)
The suits against the tobacco and gun industries have opened the floodgates. Whenever a state needs revenue it'll sue the biggest unpopular company it can find.
Personally I don't believe that a monetary solution is what an entity would go after if they REALLY wanted to stop Microsofts practices. They'd seek to punish them by forcing them to open their code.
THAT would alter Microsoft's behavior overnight.
LK
Good thing (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Good thing (Score:1)
NFL hopeful Lesnar injured in motorcycle accident [yahoo.com]
As OpinionJournal noted, "By contrast, we're hopeful he'll be OK."
Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does that surprise you? If you can throw money at a problem and that costs you less than getting in the fight, that's what you should do, as a company. It's not like they're strapped for cash.
Besides, the plaintiff is under no obligation to take a settlement offer, so they must have found the terms acceptable based on their complaint.
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:2)
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:1)
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:2)
Therefore MS can only save money by getting rid of these things quickly. Once all the suits are settled, they are in the clear, because everyone who was against them has given up their rights by settling in the first place.
There are no new people who can make suits, because they were already represented by the bigg
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:2)
Microsoft operates all over the world, there are still plenty of countries who could sue. Personally I'm hoping Canada gets in on the act, we could use a bit of cash too
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Has Microsoft not settled one of these? I imagine if they didn't settle, and therefore accepted blame (if that's indeed the case), it would set a precedent that could really cost MS some money in
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:2)
They haven't (yet) settled the EU case. In fact, one of the sticking points to settlement was the ability to use that case as precedence for future EU cases--the EU guy insisted that it be allowed as precedent setting, and Microsoft rejected those terms. For exactly the reason that you mention--the EU already has 1-3 new cases lined up, on similar grounds, that intends to use the current one as precedence--which will mean both higher awards and a faster time to litigate.
Re:Is this the new MS strategy? (Score:2)
Other Sources (Score:5, Informative)
Forbes [forbes.com]
FT.com [ft.com] (A good one!)
Re:Other Sources (Local Sources) (Score:3, Informative)
As I live in MN... (Score:5, Interesting)
Score one for the little guy? I doubt it.
MS should have been broken up like Ma Bell a long time ago.
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
Score one for the little guy? I doubt it.
It seems to me that any settlement on behalf of the people should result in compensation going directly to the people involved. And compensation is always half of a rememdy.
Minnesota simply looked at the chances... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hopefully this will result in that type of settlement
Re:Minnesota simply looked at the chances... (Score:2, Insightful)
jason
Not Paid in Cash? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Other recent lawsuit actions. MS recently settled 2 other lawsuits for a total of 2.04 billion dollars [1.6 billion Sun, 440 million Intertrust]
2. Non-Cash Settlements have hurt MS. When MS settled with the DoJ and some states in November, provisions in the settlement prevented MS from engaging in exclusive contracts that would prohibit software developers or PC makers from using competing prod
Re:Minnesota simply looked at the chances... (Score:2)
Microsoft more or less got off from the Federal Government, chances of this suit succeeding are very slim.
Microsoft got off because the Bush administration was elected into office, not because they case against them was bad. Remember that they were actually found guilty?
I think the case was settled because MN needs cash right now because of the continued budget deficits. The fact that they decided to settle while the prosecution was still making its case (and before Microsoft even got a chance to defe
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bell was a large company, broken into several smaller companies, each allowing to provide service to a given area. No restrictions were made on what type of product each baby bell was allowed to produce, or the prices each baby bell could set (other than the pricing regulations already in effect)
The other large anti-trust case, (Standard Oil) was the same. Location of service were split into multiple companies, not type of service.
Microsoft is a producer of goods, not a distributor of goods. The things that they do distribute (Software downloads, services) aren't really location based. As Slashdot is well aware, the internet has no boundries.
There are 0/None/Nada precidents for splitting up a company based on product, or telling a company what products they can create.
While MS did (and may continue to, depending on who you ask) act uncompetitavley, this power would not be removed by any logical splitup.
If you split them into OS vs Office for example, the major source of anti-compete accusations in the past was bundling of features within the OS, or forced contracts on OEMs. Neither of these would be fixed by this (proposed) split.
As stated, geographical splits don't really make sense for a virtual company. You could split up distribution, but MS doesnt really do their own distribution except for downloads. Everything is already passed out to OEMs or chains like Best Buy.
The only thing you could do would be to make the internal departments act like Black Boxes to eachother. The office team doesn't get any inside info on the OS that isnt available to other developers.
Even with that, MS is still a defacto monopoly. Very few buisiness apps or games run on non-MS hardware (Discounting mainframe and huge unix apps like SAP that MS isn't even competing with)
In office they have a defacto standard, because everyone wants their files to be readable by as many people as possible. The new XML file formats will significantly lower the barrier for entry into that market tho.
And finally, The fact that Mac and Linux are claiming such good marketing position, is in fact evidince AGAINST MS being given a radical splitup. If you really want MS to get split up, make Apple and Redhat say that they are closing because MS drove them into the ground.
As long as they are around, all MS will get is "corrective" action.
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
As long as they [Apple & Red Hat] are around, all MS will get is "corrective" action.
Exactly.
So the recent concerns [com.com] about the slow pace at which the consent decree's prescribed API licensing and documentation are having any effect on bringing about new competition in the server space are zero surprise to anyone in this forum.
As mentioned in an earlier /. story, Microsoft is making a very pragmatic push to buy legal settlements as part of a business strategy.
How much will it cost them to settle wit
Re:Shut Up, communist. (Score:1, Informative)
MS got where they are now mostly because they out spent and out marketed everyone else in their industry (you can do that with several billions of $$$ at your disposal) and utilizing predatory business practices goes a long way towards culling the fledgling competition. Linux an inferior product?!? Get back into your Windows 98 corner and don't come out until you've removed some more spyware and reboot a few times and think about what you've just said. In another 8-12 quarters Linux will start to dom
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
This is what I don't understand. I am not a North American, but I don't see how this works. If A makes an offer X to B, and B accepts it, we have a contract (there must be valuable consideration, but that's not important right now). If A subsequently sends him an invoice for X+C, we have "overcharging". Maybe they would get away with it here and there, accidents happen, but if it starts occurring on a regular basis it
Re:As I live in MN... (Score:2)
Yeah, whatever... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft can pay fines out of their petty cash, while perpetrating similar tricks over and over.
Re:Yeah, whatever... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, whatever... (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Yeah, whatever... (Score:3, Interesting)
Evaluate your risk of harm, evaluate the cost of dealing with the results of the harm, and compare with the cost of
Re:Yeah, whatever... (Score:1)
In all fairness to Ford, they were simply applying a straightforward economic risk assesment when they released the Pinto.
Evaluate your risk of harm, evaluate the cost of dealing with the results of the harm, and compare with the cost of repairing the design. If it costs more to make the vehicle safer than it will cost to compensate those who are likely to be injured, then your conduct is arguably not negligent.
What screwed Ford over was that the plaintiff's lawyers brought in the evidence that the
a * b * c = x (Score:2)
Obligatory Fight Club (Score:2)
out-of-court settlement, (C).
A times B times C equals X...
If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Re:Yeah, whatever... (Score:2)
But that case was a joke. A drunk driver ran into the victims at an incredible rate of speed. Yet it is GM's fault? The victims just went after the deep pocket. Just like the MS case. (Jaguar and Panther cost more than XP, how is Windows overpriced?)
Re:Unsafe at any speed.. (Score:2)
Settled for what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. Think of the kids. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not the only one who immediately knew what the settlement terms are.
Free software for schools, and $5 dollars off your next X-box purchase.
And probably a few million for the cash-strapped state.
"Toss them a bone."
It works every time. And it's back to business as usually for our favorite megamonopoly.
Re:Settled for what? (Score:2)
Why the gubamint? (Score:5, Interesting)
Could be the state got overcharged, but there are enough other cases where it works the way I interpreted this one to ask anyway.
Re:Why the gubamint? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why the gubamint? (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, this year the state eyeballed that big ole Pile-O-Money and said, "Hmm...health of kids vs. budget deficit and a no new taxes pledge." You get 0 points for guessing which one won. Research has shown that youth smoking is up in the six months following the end of the campaign, but whether it's a true cause and effect is anyone's guess.
I wonder.. (Score:4, Insightful)
If so, I can see why M$ would settle.
A win against them in court by the state would make it a lot easier for a class-action suit to also win, setting even further precedent in other states.
Re:I wonder.. (Score:1)
NO and NO, the lawyers will get every penny of it.
Re:I wonder.. (Score:2)
Get ready for the Linux FUD.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Regardless of how the SCO thing works out, you can be sure that MSFT will be using this FUD when trying to close deals with big business customers.
I didn't suspect this to happen so soon (Score:2, Informative)
*begin offtopic*
And yes, we need the money. The current governer has decided that his priorities are with the suburbanites, further widening the schism between upper and lower class.
(BALLMER)TAX CUTS! TAX CUTS! TAX CUTS!(/BALLMER)
*end offtopic*
Re:I didn't suspect this to happen so soon (Score:1)
M$ Settlements (Score:5, Informative)
This leaves us with 24 more states that have not come to any decision or have not gone after Microsoft.
Minnesota's citizens were overcharged between $10 to $70 a year. 9.7 million licenses were overcharged from 1994 to 2001. Silicon Valley [siliconvalley.com]
Is M$SFT Guilty? (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft attorneys said the company had done nothing wrong...
Then why settle even before the plaintiffs even finished putting on their case before the jury?
Could it be the case was compelling?
Re:Is M$SFT Guilty? (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, if they fought it they'd have a chance of winning, but by handing out settlements now and then they save time and money that can be used in fighting other cases, or just sat on.
No matter which option they choose, Microsoft has plenty of money to burn in such cases.
Re:Is M$SFT Guilty? (Score:2, Insightful)
The situation goes like this:
MN isn't sure they'll win, but MSFT isn't sure that it will be able to overcome local prejudice. What do you do? Give it to an unpredictable jury? Or make a decision everyone can live with?
--AC
Re:Is M$SFT Guilty? (Score:5, Insightful)
Could it be because the legal system in the country is so screwed up that it is simpler for a company to just settle every lawsuit it faces, regardless of merit, than it is to fight the lawsuit and win? Of course you could just as easily argue that fighting the case would have cost MN more than it would get if it won compared to what it got in the settlement.
There are two sides to every coin. One thing I think we can all agree to is that there is something seriously wrong with a legal system when the cost of prosecuting or defending a case is a significant factor in the direction a case goes.
Re:Is M$SFT Guilty? (Score:2)
It's an old lament that our (UK) legal system is always becoming Americanis^hzed. A bit ironic since you nicked it off us in the first place... But anyway yeah, it's stupid here too.
Between 1994 and 2001... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Between 1994 and 2001... (Score:4, Informative)
No there wasn't even if you wanted to. Don't you remember the Licensing restrictions Microsoft made the PC Makers sign in order to get attractive windows pricing?
Typical consumer call to Dell (or IBM, Compaq, Acer, Gateway, etc).
Consumer: I want a computer with OS/2 on it.
Dell: We only ship with Windows.
Consumer: Then I want a computer with Dr. DOS on it.
Dell: We only ship with Windows
Consumer: Can I have a computer without an OS for $100 less?
Dell: No, we only ship with Windows
Enjoy,
Re:Between 1994 and 2001... (Score:2)
Re:Between 1994 and 2001... (Score:2)
It's not that IBM wanted to ship Win95, but when your OS/2 customer base is at 20-30% and your Wind
Re:Between 1994 and 2001... (Score:1)
Nothing but... (Score:2)
Re:Nothing but... (Score:1)
Settled, eh? (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Settled, eh? (Score:1)
Re:Settled, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet another reason why MSFT benefits from settling.
--AC
The settlement (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The settlement (Score:2)
"It doesn't matter" -- B. Gates (Score:3, Insightful)
Supposedly this was Gates rejoinder to Steve Jobs when the latter said, "We're better than you." Gates knows in this case that throwing a bit of cash to Minnesota to settle the suit doesn't really matter, either. It's the same Machiavellian insight as to what it takes to win his grand strategic goals at the cost of a few tactical losses. "Oh, I over charged you for the years between 1994 and 2001? So sorry. Here's a 30% refund in 2004. Thanks for the 70% I get to keep! (And the time I needed to eliminate my competition, hehe...)".
No reasearch went into buying from M$ ? (Score:1)
If that was done, then where is the reasoning to complain?
Shop smart, shop S-MART.
Redefinitions (Score:4, Interesting)
Still waiting to receive my settle... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Still waiting to receive my settle... (Score:2)
Re:heh.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Not enough to kill them off (which would be devastating, considering winXP would stop running), but enough to wake them up.
Re:heh.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:heh.... (Score:2)
what would be the financial impact relative to 9/11?
also if a lot of MS staff were killed, could Windows continue to function? would the government have to step in, nationalise and release patches for the sake of stability?
MS would certainly be an easier target than the more obvious Pentagon/White House type.
Re:heh.... (Score:1)
Re:heh.... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Only 1 million consumers in minnesota? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Only 1 million consumers in minnesota? (Score:1)
Re:Only 1 million consumers in minnesota? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hmmmm, New poll option??? (Score:1)
Re:A victory for women everywhere! (Score:1)
Re:Sigh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How is Windows overpriced? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How is Windows overpriced? (Score:2)
Re:How is Windows overpriced? (Score:2)
I found XP Home for ~$85, OEM or ~$72 CD only OEM.
XP Pro is around $130 or $120 CD only.
Realistically, if you are going to compare XP to Panther, you should probably compare Pro as feature to feature that is a better match. Which makes them pretty much the same price or Panther cheaper as Fry's is selling Panther for $109 this week
Re:How is Windows overpriced? (Score:2)