Microsoft FUD Machine Aims at OpenOffice.org 693
Roblimo writes "If you're using Microsoft Office and considering a switch to (free) OpenOffice.org, Microsoft would like you to read their Open Office Competitive Guide first, in which they tell you how much better/faster/cheaper MS Office is than OOo. Taran Rampepersad, an IT consultant in Trinidad, believes this "Competitive Guide" is nothing but FUD, so he wrote a detailed rebuttal to it -- and released his article under the FDL so you can feel free to republish his piece or share it with anyone you like, however you like." A followup to this story. Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.
Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:5, Interesting)
Two Faced Slashdot (Score:0, Interesting)
I guess Microsoft is evil, except when that blood money comes your way.
Macros are a valid point (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, Be Nice (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm not trying to validate either side's claims. I'm also not trying to say that one side was or was not tossing around the FUD. But, for a change, how about you let me try to draw my own conclusions, rather than give me yours?
Why you should not read /. (Score:1, Interesting)
DUPE! [slashdot.org]
whats an "rteam"? (Score:1, Interesting)
Obviously someone hasn't been using the MS spell checker.
And why are they distributing it in pdf format? I bet they didn't even use office to make this document.
Both have thier value (Score:5, Interesting)
If a buiness is already using MS Office, the is reason to switch is if the buiness grows and they would need more MS office licences while the cost for migrating is cheap.
Alot of people dont upgrade office. A place i used to work at was still using office 97. There is simply no reason to upgrade to office 2k or XP.
For my personal use, i see enough value in office to make it worth purchasing, but for the time being im only using windows. (Could change in the future)
Tools (Score:2, Interesting)
My mental monologue. (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:meh (Score:3, Interesting)
When writing text, write will do but for doing layout? not at all.
You can go 2 ways there:
- Use seperate layout software (alternatives exist for almost every plaform)
- Use a program that allows doing layout together with content.
When you don't care about layout, you wont need either. When you are writing for some kind of professional publication, you should end up with the first solution, but for all those who write things that must look decent on paper, but for whom writing and layout is simply not their profession, nor somethign they need to do a lot professionally, an intergrated content/layout program is really what you want.Do MS Office and OpenOffice have a lot of features that you personally have no need for? most likely. Do most users only use some 10% of the features? sure. The problem is that they do not use the same 10%, and as a result a lot more features are needed to serve the entire potential userbase then the few that you specifically use, and no, you are not going to see the need for those features, but try to get it into your head that there are many features that others do need, and thus the features you need are very likely not representative for the majority of users.
Having said that, I believe both OO and MS Office have features that are used by so few that not havign them wouldn't hurt either. Also, as soon as the basic feature requirements are covered, features themselves become more of a marketing then a usability issue.
At any rate, suggesting that all most users ever need is write and a very simple spreadsheet is like saying that noone will ever need more then 640kbyte memory. We know how stupid the later turned out to be.
I think that Microsoft Office won in the marketplace, and did have quite a bit of serious competition untill relatively recently, and now got some again with OO.
I'd say that MS Office won from its competition because Microsoft actually offered combinations of features that people found practical, and despite my rather strong dislike of Microsoft, I did agree at the time that their Office suite was simply more usable then anythign the competition had to offer. That said, I am using OO now since it offers all the usability that I personally need.
Made with... (Score:3, Interesting)
The sad thing is I can't even agree with Microsoft on THAT one. Acrobat didn't go OS.X until 5.05 I believe so this was created on a Mac using OS 9. At least they go HALF of it right.
I'll be keeping my Mac. Can't wait for the NATIVE version of OO to emerge. 2006 - bah. It'll beat Longhorn to market though. That's even sadder.
Microsoft: a rich pathetic company.
Re:A few bones to pick with the article author: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:5, Interesting)
Creator: QuarkXPress(tm) 4.11
Producer: Acrobat Distiller 4.05 for Macintosh
Yay for MS Office!
Re:Unconvincing (Score:5, Interesting)
Not for us, but for the PHB's.
Microsoft has so dominated the mindshare of so many users that they think their experiences with MS systems are representative of all experiences with computers. I've heard so many people go around spewing drivel like, "Computers are inherently unreliable and prone to crashing," or "Computers are inherently insecure and prone to viruses." All they've known is MS software, so they can't conceive of anything better.
So if MS says OO is less secure, the clueless may think: All computers are inherently insecure. So viruses will infect all systems to the same degree, though makers can try to stem the tide through heroic efforts. Microsoft is doing the best it can to keep, and they have lots of resources. Some group of volunteers couldn't possibly do any better. Gosh, I'd hate to think of how many viruses are in this OO software.
What we need to do is keep reminding users that there are lots of better systems out there, and viruses are primarily due to flawed design.
Most MS users remind me of a talk I heard by an ex-Soviet dissident in the 80's. He said that growing up poor in the USSR, he still assumed things must be worse in the USA, and he imagined a "typical" American boy his age, living on the edge of starvation under an oppressive regime. He was genuinely happy to be living under Stalin, where things sucked but not as bad as anywhere else.
I'd like to use this, but I've always gone back (Score:4, Interesting)
Can someone say that things are better now, or do I still have to macro around such frustrations, or what?
Re:yep - but send no money. (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft is certainly the largest software company in the world, however, the drive for market dominance and profit is not always compatible with producing good software.
One example is that the payoff between releasing software as fast as possible, getting it to the shelves, creating income and the all important user-base, and releasing software that is less buggy.
There are other examples based around software design. Eventually maximising the utility of an application is counterproductive to the mechanism by which the user discovers that an upgrade, or the next most extensive package contains just a little pit of functionality that is required.
But send no money to Trinidad, Open office can be downloaded for free - try it out. [openoffice.org]
Microsoft does however have a lot more money for advertising that the open source movement, and some of the ways that this is being spent to the detriment of the open source community are undeniably innovative. One of the less creative things that they do is spread FUD everywhere (they even seem to have a community of presumably paid employees posting and moderating here at slashdot). Only a very few members of the open source community could afford the advertising to reach Joe Public baring word of mouth.
Consequently it may be important to reply to a troll, because you never know who may be visiting slashdot for the first time.
Re:Office compatibility (Score:3, Interesting)
Piracy (Score:4, Interesting)
The one thing I don't understand about Microsoft's stance is that people using OOo would obviously not be pirating copies of Office. This saves everyone time (searching for the crack) and money.
That in mind, wouldn't using OOo for windows be preferable for Microsoft, when compared to someone pirating and sharing copies of their suite?
Also, anyone using OOo is likely already using Mozilla or Thunderbird, which eradicates the whole e-mail issue (mentioned above). Free software users tend to fill holes in their library with... *gasp* more free software. Hell, I'm on a Mac running OS X and I've got more programs installed through Fink than I do of any other kind, our of habit.The only reason... (Score:1, Interesting)
I hardly ever use word processing etc applications so I use Open Office because my resumes seem to be converted just fine into larger files. Which equals more bandwidth required to send, times few million to billion people and you have bad efficiency of sending information.
WTF Spend money on computer not MS Office (Score:2, Interesting)
Compare the price of MS Office with a Java desktop machine at Walmart. [walmart.com]
Dupe.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll give this submitter credit though, he seems to have done his homework a little better than the previous submitter [slashdot.org].
Which brings me to an interesting question. What's better- quick and dirty news or informative, slightly delayed news? I'll take the latter, fer sher dude.
Re:Unconvincing (Score:3, Interesting)
Being raised fairly poor on a midwestern farm, my father would tell my siblings and me as we passed fancy houses as we drove along the road that "Those people aren't really happy who live there"
The impression that painted mentally created a lot of internal confusion for years about whether it was right to be in a big nice house and risk unhappiness.
I laugh now, but in my late teens and early 20's I found myself walking more in my fathers shoes with his beliefs than my own shoes and my beliefs.
So getting off the farm and seeing the world opened up a whole new vista for me, and perhaps one day many MS users having nothing to lose will also take that risk and see the new vistas that are awaiting them.
And I also found that those people living in the fancy houses on the hill are happy much of the time.
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Open Office is a very good tool. I like the fact that it prints to pdf. Most of the interface is extremely easy to use. However, the product is not as polished as Office in many respects.
Lacking an access work-alike is also a detriment. Further, I am surprised they don't mention Project. I know many people who (unfortunately) think of their information in project as more important than information coming from the working team. "Project says we are half done! That means we'll be able to move our release up a week!" *shudder*
I admit that the advertising from microsoft criticizing that OO doesn't come with an email client is a bit off base--I would claim that not including Outlook is a security feature
Here's the 'Big Deal'... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sun, Apple, and RedHat are expected to do battle with the 'enemy' - whoever they are since they are commercial competitors in kind.
Re:What's the big deal? (Score:5, Interesting)
They are actually doing us a favor. No way the OpenOffice.org team could have bought this much publicity. Now like 50,000 VAR's were just put on notice that Microsoft is taking OpenOffice.org seriously and that its a worthy product that they shouldn't be surprised to see at client sites.
First Microsoft admits that OpenOffice.org is as good as MS Office 97, now this. Sweet. MS Office has only one place to go, and its not up. Bring it on Microsoft. More press releases and studies about OpenOffice.org please!
Open office has a fundamental flaw (Score:2, Interesting)
How on earth can you win when you accept the enemys rules as the playing field ? OO will never be as good as MS at MS defined things....
People will only use OO when it can really do somehting that office cant
From where I sit in my cube, this whole discussion is kinda unreal. We are a 200 person company making scientific instruments; 2/3 of the employees are engineers, scientists or senior mgt. So far as I can tell, no one cares that much about MSoffice vs OO; it is just not an issue (you could say we are all brainwashed stupid MSslaves, but that is kind of an arrogant [liberal pay taxes cause its good; conservative obey my morals]point of view. So, like it or not, cares about offic software or the evil empire are irrelevant - we have concerns like shipping product, supporting customers, etc, and MS is just off the screen. I could probably suggest that we swithc to OO because MS is bad, but I'm a known wierdo scientist type - if one of the biz people suggestd this, they would probably be fired.
Again, you might not like it, but we are happy with office - it works for us. This change occured with office 2000; the idea that there is better software out there is simply not known, and the discussions i see on
The cost of office license is simply not an issue; maybe we r lucky there; the 350 bucks per person once every three or four years is just not a biggie
But there is a lot of downside to open office swithc. For instance, I tried the word program last night, and it took me 5 minutes to figure out the dic feature for docs; multiply that by 200 features, over our company, we would probably go out of biz if we swithced to open office, due to loss of time. That is us - again, call us stupid, but this is what we are facing. We use a lot of scientific software; it is all in windows and office compataible; loss of compat with a single office program wd doom open office. we have NO it staff to write scripts - no budget for that and not going to get approved int eh future (for a company our size, cost of IT support > cost of office licenses) we constantly exchange docs with customers, all using office; loss of a single sale cause customer got irrateted at wierd
Re:Speed? (Score:4, Interesting)
Distribution (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know, maybe it's not all one-sided. Interesting question, though.
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:4, Interesting)
Ref-software (hint for you OSS developers out there) is crucial for people in academia. Though a lot still do use latex, that number is nothing compared to those using Word + Endnote + Adobe Acrobat.
If OO.org had ref software, I'd use it.
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:PDF (Score:3, Interesting)
MS could then just use the power they have with the computer distributors bundle it in with all linux sold pc's and require them to sell it that it's not an option. They did it with windows didn't they?
The biggest problem is that people that have used open office are spreading the word. Im currently in college and I openly recommend it over word. We keep a cd in the CS lab with it on and burn it for anyone to use. While the Campus IT tells people buy word for x amount. To a college student we see free and go for it.
Re:We have ditched M$ office for good (Score:3, Interesting)
If we can do it anyone can do it. Believe me our IT people are not smart since they were M$ engineers they freaked out when then didnt see ok cancel button on every screen.
Now they love shell programming."
I'm beta testing SuSE 9.1 right now. If they thought the switch to Linux was a scary only to discover the freedom of Linux they'll most likely like 9.1 even more. Beta 1 was one of the smoothest betas I've ever tested. Sure there were glitches and some kludgy behavior but no where near what I had expected from a beta - and this was beta one.
As far as OO.o is concerned I have not used a version of M$Word in a couple of years and now to my pleasure I send Office/Word users both presentation and text docs in Win formats and have yet to have any complaints. Even if one decides to stay with an M$Win platform on the desktop why in the world would you pay the price for M$ Office - even at the Student discount (of course for which no one has to verify their student/teacher status - mind games again). Seems only a few Pro Writers even have the slightest desire to use more the an Nth of the so called "features" M$ Office provides.
I have no conpunction what so ever for paying for software. Even though I have access to SuSE's latest and greatest OS ISOs I have always payed for the distro - I beleive in the company and hence support it with my wallet. M$ seems to think the way to better business is to stranglehold the clientele. This is the surest way to promote the competition... They just don't seem to get it and thank the powers that be they won't really ever get it. FOSS/Linux's best friend is for M$ to continue with business as usual.
Re:Office and reasons to switch. (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully I won't be stoned for heresy, but if MS office would run on Linux I would drop Windows like a red-headed step child. But I think Microsoft knows that and would be signing a death-warrent if they did that.
Good Open-Source Access equivalent? (Score:2, Interesting)
MS Access is one piece of MS software I'm not ashamed to admit to using, and like using. I love the ability to link into our SQL database, create local tables stored within the MDB file, visually design queries, forms, reports, etc., plus the Visual Basic component has been a real life saver for most of the things I've had it done. At my workplace, it's gotten to the point where if there's any task we'd like to automate, or some really funky custom report, they usually ask me if I can pull it off using Access.
But if I knew of an alternative, that provided the same ease of use (well, providing you're already comfortable with queries, tables, and programming!) but wasn't made by that company from Redmond, I'd make every effort to switch even if it meant spending my own personal time migrating my MDB files. Oh, and a solution that worked on both Linux and Windows would be best. I can't completely shed Windows at work yet... gotta take it one step at a time. =)
The OpenOffice.org Acid test (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, office "XP" is now so horribly outdated that it is impossible to find anywhere. We tried to find a cheap copy of it and were almost ripped off by an ebay scammer.
We were reluctant to purchase office 2003 since she would then be the only one in the office running it. While the new version might be 100% compatible we wanted to keep our software consistent for all our people. Microsoft would probably prefer we buy all new licenses of office 2003 for everybody but after spending thousands on Office XP, which works great, we see no reason to upgrade.
The retail price of a single license of Office has actually surpassed the cost of the computer hardware to run it on. Frustrated and sick end by our fruitless quest for office licenses, I decided to try OOo.
Our new employee with her rudimentary skill level picked up OOo just fine. She had absolutely no complaints. OOo proved itself that it is a suitable replacement. So as our company grows, we will slowly migrate to OOo.
I don't think any CTO's really listen to the Microsoft sponsored TCO studies. We know that the choice of MS is only due to its strangle hold on the desktop and the worker bee's perception of normalcy.
Look for office licensing cost to drop as Microsoft comes to the realization that they can't exploit their monopoly power for all it's worth any more.
MS Office incompatible with MS Office (Score:1, Interesting)
The most recent was a spreadsheet produced in Offce XP, saved in Excel 97/2000 format which crashed Excel 2000.
We ended up editing it with OpenOffice since it did not crash and was able to open said spreadsheet.
Agressive use of OOo file formats (Score:5, Interesting)
I am aggressively using OOo file formats in my daily communication. That is, all documents that I am sending are being sent out as sx? files, and if I am receiving MS office documents, I convert them to OOo anyway in order to work with them, and send them back in sx? formats. Usually, I include a customary copy of a PDF export with the document.
This strategy works nicely. Almost all the people I work with now have OOo included in their installation. In fact, new machines in my workplace will soon include OOo as a standard installation, I hope. Some people are starting to send documents in sx? formats as I do.
External communication is the next target. I will force our suppliers and partners to learn what OOo is and how to use it as well.
This is how you establish a standard: Document it (OOo file formats are nicely documented) and then use brute force to publicize it.
The common sense rebuttal (Score:5, Interesting)
The easiest step towards securing your network is removing Outlook (Express, 2000, XP etc etc etc) Outlook is the number one target of viruses and the biggest headache ever.
Number two:
Access may be a good tool for personal usage but in my opinion it is the shittiest piece of hacked ass software ever. It's ubiquity has led to a mass of shitty databases with crappy little frontends prone to corruption and horrific DB management. Forcing direct client to SQL connections IMO is a good idea, less chance for some of that data horded in the Access frontend being sucked off a hapless user workstation and having the thousand or so customers info cached locally released on the web.
Now, with that said my work uses a groupware package like Outlook+exchange that is faar less prone to attacks, with a good attachment blocking spam filter at our head end, we see basically 0 mail infections. (That and we remove outlook express/outlook from our automated installations so the users aren't happily installing and popping their personal mail either.)
Number Three:
The only other valid issue mentioned is the Word compatibility. This is really only an issue with the newest version of Office/Word, and I tend to save everything in PDF if it's leaving my hands anyways. With the trend of businesses holding off on office upgrades I see this issue nearly being void, nearly...
The only concern the adoption of OO has is that newer systems will come solely with 2003 and the DRM bullshit. And the only way to fight it is to back HP 100% and start getting FLOSS pushed onto more vendors. Eventually OO will get pushed on EVERYTHING new as the default option. Ubiquity for free beats ubiquity for $$$ any day.
I'm no zealot, but more power to the movement. [gnu.org]
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:1, Interesting)
Well, you know I need to write one for my wife's work
Currently it will (partially implemented) support for PubMed and, I think, it will look like a glue between her browser and OO.o 'Bibliography'-like DB. If you can help or have suggestions about how it should look and work, write me an email to alex-old at idisys dot iae dot nsk dot su.
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly enough, one of the first things my Fiance said after using OO for the first time was 'oooh, the pictures stay where you put them'. (By the way, I know about all the different options for placing pictures and how they sit with the text. It's all a mess).
The only strong criticsm I have of OO is mailmerge: this is a key SMB need, very obvious and straightforward in Word, yet I've never been able to figure out how to do it without delving into setting up data sources and all sorts of things I don't want to know about.
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:2, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Office and reasons to switch. (Score:3, Interesting)
Enquiring minds want to know....
Re:Currently writing my theisis with OO.org (Score:3, Interesting)
I googled a bit, and checked the OOo website, but I couldn't find any indication that OO supports this feature. If it doesn't, that's one reason why my company wouldn't switch.
One solution to my LaTeX problem could be to put tex docs in cvs, which is nicer than trying to put a word doc into cvs because at least with tex you can see the changes to the text instead of just to the gibberish inside a
Re:Links to www.openoffice.org (Score:2, Interesting)
Get a grip, folks. Oo doesn't require you to dig around in a computer desk drawer to find the old registration code when you have to reinstall a MS product. Oh, that's right - you don't need one at all for Oo!
We received a computer that was "Secure" from a Virtual Public School ( they really stunk, BTW). Since they neglected to provide the login and password for the computer, I did a Google of 'hack xp', found out how to bypass the login and create a new admin user. I then logged in again, setup the internet, downloaded Opera and OpenOffice, and accessed all the MSOffice documents the school provided. I couldn't use MSOffice or even Outlook for email since they required the unavailable LEGAL reg codes the school couldn't find.
HERE'S AN INTERESTING POINT!!!!!
My kids used Oo until the school sent ANOTHER copy of MSOffice. I went ahead and installed it, then found that OpenOffice WOULD NO LONGER WORK! I deleted MSOffice, and all was well again.
SUMMARY-
OpenOffice did what we needed.
The MSOffice installation somehow corrupted the Oo installation.
I still have Oo. I pitched(microwaved) MSOffice.
Oh yes, remember that OpenOffice can RECOVER MSOffice documents that will not open with MSOffice! And ANOTHER THING! If MS is so "interoperable". why can't I open my realy old MSworks documents with MSOffice?
Hmmm.
Use OpenOffice.