Is Microsoft Paying To Influence UN Standards? 298
PizzaFace writes "Microsoft is reported to be spending strategically to influence the United Nations' standards for business data exchange. A UN standards-setting body, UN/CEFACT, and an industry-standards group, OASIS, had developed an open standard format for data interchange, called ebXML. Microsoft hired two people from UN/CEFACT, and a few months later the body decided to stop working on ebXML and instead to work on a Business Collaboration Framework for web services, promoted by Microsoft and IBM. Microsoft then paid for three UN committee members to travel to six countries to promote the BCF."
yes (Score:4, Insightful)
If you believe so (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just hotel stays.. (Score:2, Insightful)
duh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Uh... Yes it does?
How is this surprising?
Next
"microsoft's business malpractices."
come on...
Weird (Score:5, Insightful)
The site doesn't mention Windows or Windows-based systems anywhere, nor does it mention Microsoft. With IBM so heavily supporting *nix based systems, I doubt MS can wriggle their way into making the standards supported only on their platform, otherwise it's not really a standard....
Profit! (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't this supposed to be a news site?
--
This is not flamebait or trolling (and these are not the droids you seek). This is commentary, done in a sarcastic tone. Posting tiny examples of the prevalence of corporate influence in our world is a waste of time.
Re:yes (Score:2, Insightful)
of course they would say that... (Score:4, Insightful)
Like they ever would say something like "yes we are behaving like corrupt colombian Mobsters". Standars are always a wrestling match between companies trying to impose their technology, who doesnt want everyone to need what you created and know best how to do!.
UN (Score:3, Insightful)
The UN isn't just USA but the United Nations made up of well over 100 countries. Much bigger field to influence.
Pass Her Around.... (Score:2, Insightful)
In case you haven't noticed, the UN is everybodies bitch lately.
Lobbyism (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's wikipedia's [wikipedia.org] definition of lobyism.
Re:This is not surprising (Score:4, Insightful)
I know you are probably just writing about the long arm of Microsoft's loot, but it is important to note that the UN is NOT a government entity. It is a forum for governments to sit down and collaborate on various issues. It has no authority (thank God). It doesn't make laws (thanks again, God).
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:4, Insightful)
ebxml and bcf are on a somewhat different level (Score:5, Insightful)
From an ebXML Business Process Specification Schema [coverpages.org] announcement and a BCF faq [unbcf.org] I figured that ebxml provides a number of services (like repositories) and a number of high-level xml specifications.
The first item, services, seems to do some of the same things as soap, uddl, etc, the webservices stuff (1). This seems to be the major area where IBM and MS try to convince people to use their (webservices) solutions instead of the ebxml solutions.
The second item , the high-level xml specifications, seems to lack a few things that weren't included in ebxml proper, like the "UN/CEFACT Modeling Methodology -- Meta Model". These (or solutions based on it) are now developed separately by the UN under the name of BCF. But this is more of a layer building upon the existing ebxml work.
So: ebxml's services see some flak from webservices (ibm+ms) and the UN acknowledges that this is a possible alternative implementation. On the other hand, the UN builds upon ebxml by adding the BCF layer, making it more useful.
At least, that's my guess from the info!
Reinout
p.s. 1): for REST-proponents: I like the REST approach more than the SOAP one
Corruption levels in the US vs. UN (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Essentially, the S. Korean chamber of commerce gets together and flies around 20 staffers over for 10 days in 5 star hotels, and all-expenses paid fun. Sure, they tour some factories and hear some presentations, but it's mainly a free vacation. Lots of companies/lobbying gropus do similar trips within the US, as well. Sugar cane growers will take staffers to south Florida. The tobacco lobby takes folks to resorts in NC. The military lets military issues staffers stay on board aircraft carriers, etc.
In this particular instance, MS is playing by the well-established rules for this type of thing.
Welcome to capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
It's Dead, Jim. (Score:4, Insightful)
Same as it always was, really, but with scantier drapes.
And no-one seems interested in ( i.e.: scared into ) checks and balances of any sort.
The even minimally ethical, with hope or intent for an even minimally decent future for humanity, or the world, have less places to gather in (on, around) - or hide.
Raw, naked, ruthless, mindless, hell-bent power seems to the order of the day. Klingons with corny western accents, eh ? Well, well. Who'd a thunk it ? And everyone's welcoming them like there was no tomorry, too. >:-|
maybe the UN... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:2, Insightful)
Why are they working on this (Score:5, Insightful)
The UN should work on foster better relations between countries. They should work on eliminating all WMDs (even those in the first world) They should cure hunger and famine and disesase and educate the world. They should work toward universal human rights. And when they have accomlished that, disband.
We don't need a world body to help business, they can do that perfectly well on their own. And to do so, only opens up the possibility of corruption with no concievable gain. Why is even as single penny of UN money or a single second of UN time going to this effort when much more pressing needs exist?
A few comments say this is (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do we need a standard set by the UN anyway? (Score:3, Insightful)
U.N. staff not elected by the people (Score:3, Insightful)
That's why the U.N. is such a thoroughly corrupted entity. The U.N. enjoys a multi-billion dollar budget that is in theory controlled by the governments of a few large country... but in reality, the politicians from those country come and go, and in the end, the U.N. does not really answer to any one.
Lack of oversight over a multibillion dollar budget... yeah! That's the ticket!
Look a this Wall Street Journal article about Kofi Annan deep-sixing the corruption investigation of his best-buddy at the U.N. (Annan's Assistant Secretary General & friend Benon Sevan pocketed millions from Irak).
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Yxb3
The question is, Who's Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
That MS is playing by those rules isn't surprising at all, and I'm sure the Bush adminstration is rooting for standards tied to corporate interests and IP as well.
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Double edged Sword (Score:1, Insightful)
How much money have you donated to help promote Linux education in the developing world?
Re:Welcome to capitalism (Score:3, Insightful)
You're wrong. It's called corruption when industry interferes with or influences government. Capitalism is the belief that if something is needed, people will provide it for a price and those that need it will pay the best price to get it from those who have it.
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:4, Insightful)
Lets be honest. It isn't just being misused by US policymakers. There are many other countries misusing it too.
Wasted money (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:yes, why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
As the merger went along, the attitude was that 'were waiting to get the appropriate legislation passed'. It was very matter of fact, that they knew the laws were going to change to allow them to merge... because they changed them!
Big companies have influence!
Re:Why are they working on this (Score:3, Insightful)
"Better that then do nothing!"
Those are, for the most part (not everyone in international relations agrees that WMD is a major problem in the first world), big problems that you've listed. Unfortunately, many of them are also intractable problems - otherwise they would have been solved decades ago. Focusing on the "major" issues to the exclusion of everything else isn't always the best way to go.
Look at it this way: yes, Al-Qaeda is a huge problem. But so is the serial killer, the counterfeiting ring, the petty thief. So is elementary school education, smog, traffic. The city parks need to be kept clean, and the roads aren't just going to maintain themselves.
The world is full of problems, big and small, and solely focusing on crisis management - ignoring small issues until they grow into big enough problems - isn't necessarily the best way to go about doing things.
Re:Double edged Sword (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Double edged Sword (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm...
Attempted analogy: a donation from Microsoft builds dependency much in the same way as a drug dealer builds dependency. The recipient would be better off getting nothing, instead building self-sufficiency with free software technologies.
Donating to free software is IMHO far more valuable.
Open Standards will beat Proprietary (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Double edged Sword (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:4, Insightful)
Corruption is a huge problem all over Africa. It is a common phenomena in under-developed nations were business laws are weak. It is even found on a large scale in some very developed countries (France and Italy are good examples, while USA has its fair share). Corruption comes in many disguises, from money under the table, to advanced lawyer set up money schemes.
Now, what did your "wife" see? And this corruption she saw, was it UN staff taking money illegally? If she has some good example or even proofs of this, I am sure many neo-cons wants to hear about it. The UN is one of the more scrutinized organizations in the world and any proof of misconduct will be used against it.
You sound like a true astro-turfer to me and I doubt you or your family have worked inside the UN. Remember that the U.N.s Oil for Food program was set up by the USA after the first Gulf war and the UN did the best it could with the rules for the program set down. And it seems to have worked pretty well in the way that Saddam was not able to get new or maintain his old WMD. It was so successful [state.gov] that Saddam spend all his energy trying to undermind the program. Now, show some proof instead of neo-con hate speech that the Oil for food program was a UN and France conspiracy. And please, add some more substance to your FUD about UN in Africa. I am sure your "wife" can give some concrete examples.
Re:UN - The Best International Organization... (Score:4, Insightful)
If the UN is so irrelevant and ineffective, why is the Bush administration begging the UN [usatoday.com] to clean up the election mess of the administration in Iraq? It is not like it is much at stake for them, just the re-election chances of chimp.
Re:It's Dead, Jim. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:UN activities (Score:5, Insightful)
What you call "paper pushers", and what they call (according to your good link [un.org]) "Administration" etc. is indeed the main role of the UN. "Peace keeping" after wars and such is a lot of administration, management, logistics, police,
I was in Cambodia when they were organizing the first real elections after Pol Pot. Nobody was starving, and there was no need for emergency aid like food distribution (there was and still is need for medical care though). The job was to set up fair elections, and that certainly wasn't easy.
I don't know how the food situation is in East Timor, but I suspect that there also, food is not the main problem. The difficulty is helping to set up a decent civilian administration to run the country after decades of war.
etc. in other places.
What I want to say is that you cannot dismiss the work the UN does on the ground that it is "paper pushers" work. That's the work they are supposed to be doing. Now I'm sure there are many examples where it is badly done, or in an inefficient way, but from what I've seen they also definitely do manage to get good work done.
And even more direct emergency help like for refugees requires a lot of administrative office work.
So? (Score:2, Insightful)
The UN has too much power. When you offer a person or a group of people, aka "elected officials" too much power, they'll be corrupted easily.
In the US, we used to have a really limited federal/central government. You could throw all the money you wanted at a Congressman or a President, but the Constitution limited them from doing anything to help you. Our great tyrant, Abe Lincoln, changed all that.
Just as the power of the US federals has spiraled out of control, so has the power of the UN. The more power we offer them, the more money will pay for the whims of the wealthy.
Greens, Democrats, Republicans, they all love the UN. They may say they don't, but while the UN swallows up more and more responsibility, do you really ever see even one of our elected officials tell us to get out of the UN?
There is one. Ron Paul [lewrockwell.com].
Re:Why are they working on this (Score:2, Insightful)
Most of us that worked within UN/CEFACT did so at our own, or our employers expense. We even paid fees to attend the meetings. So, at the end of the day the UN is spending diddly squat on this effort and it involved mostly to endorse the standards track.
Re:Double edged Sword (Score:3, Insightful)
How corruption starts (Score:3, Insightful)
How does this happen? The opportunity that presents itself doesn't seem like a bribe. It seems like an opportunity that would otherwise go to waste.
Let me give an example. About a dozen years ago I was the (volunteer) treasurer of a non-profit organization. As such I chaired the Finance committee (also volunteers). We banked at the Metro Credit Union, an institution like a bank, except you become a (voting) member, not a client, when you open your account. The Credit Union offered a "member appreciation dinner" to all members who attended the Annual General Meeting. And my organization was allowed to send one member.
As Treasurer I could have attended without any paperwork. But I was already a member of the Credit Union, in my personal capacity. To delegate someone else required the signature of two members of my organization's Board of Directors.
Well, the Finance Committee could have discussed who could attend, and the Board could have discussed who could attend. But they only met once a month, so the President and I had a brief informal meeting, and she agreed to sign the document, allowing a buddy of mine, who sat on the Finance Committee to go.
Small potatoes, but that is how corruption starts. You are not behaving corruptly, you are making sure something doesn't go to waste.
So, those in positions where they can be tempted need written standards, that spell out what is allowed and what isn't.
I believe, in America, public office holders are not allowed to accept gifts worth more than $50. It clearly hasn't stopped them from having some very corrupt politicians. Starting with George Washington [dailyllama.com]. Although Kitman's two books, George Washington's Expense Account and The Making of the President, 1789 are written in a humourous tone they do expose some very nasty corruption.