Voters News Service: What Went Wrong 237
ddtstudio writes "Baseline Magazine has a pretty good recounting of how even the national TV networks can have a computer network go wrong -- in this case the night of the last U.S. election. From the article: "VNS had been trying to rewrite and retool the system for years. This was just the most recent attempt and it failed miserably."
Oracle, IBM, BEA Systems -- all crashed."
Perceived bias also doomed VNS? (Score:1, Interesting)
Come to Brazil and see it working! (Score:2, Interesting)
If the USA voters want a clean, fast and effective election, send the people responsible for it to Brazil, put your pride away and admit it works nicely.
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm hoping someone with more up-to-date knowledge will fill in for my sketchiness here, but...
In the UK, there are laws about broadcasting political material during (and I believe immediately preceding?) an election. Additionally, I seem to remember that you are not allowed to report on the progress of that election whilst the voting booths are still open. I'm open to correction on that last point though - I'm sure some news programmes broadcast latest exit polls during the last few General Elections. However, it's a rule I definitely recall from somewhere.
Regardless of my shaky memory, they both seem like a very good rules to me. An election's point is not to win ratings for some TV programme, and it really won't kill you to know the result a couple of hours later.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, we don't have the amount of different time zones in this country, so we don't have quite the pressure for early information to satisfy the ravenous need for statistics.
Re:First hand account (Score:1, Interesting)
and if you have an account, and your uid is triple digit or less, then i'm blaming the fiasco on /. distraction!
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:1, Interesting)
A constitutional monarchy. As opposed to the US patriarchy...? Remind me, who was Bush's dad again, and who ran the state which made the court decision over the recount...? A shining example of democracy in action it was, oh yes. Heartwarming to see.
Re:Perceived bias also doomed VNS? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know about any laws, but there is certainly an unwritten rule that the BBC will broadcast whatever political material the Labour party tell it to.
Rrrriiiggghhhtt... (Score:2, Interesting)
For example, what good is a technologically sound voting system when all the candidates are shit?
I guess if you don't mind your savings account being frozen by the president [civnet.org] (de Mello), or a 35% currency devaluation [cnn.com] (Cardoso), or a president without a high school diploma [worldpaper.com] (da Silva), it's not so bad...
And I won't even start on the rampant corruption in Brazil. Slashdot's database wouldn't be able to hold so much information.
We'll put our pride away when Brazil puts away its complete joke of a government and stops forcing its masses to live in abject poverty [oecd.org].
You can lecture us on technology when Brazil stops doing asinine things like blowing up its own oil platforms [acusafe.com].
Verdade?
Talisman
Wanna get pissed [remail.org]?
Actually I think the VNS needs to be saved or... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a good example--of which there are many, many more--of a situation where the strict and broad Constitutional prohibition makes less sense than a nuanced and particular law tailored to the situation. It would be better if exit poll results could be suppressed.
The thing that non-USAians don't quite understand about the USA and USAians is that built into the very fabric of our culture is a paranoia about abuses of power by the government. (Periodic lapses into naive trust during wartime, like now, notwithstanding.) All of the Bill of Rights are built upon the same sort of slippery-slope thinking that the gun rights folks use in talking about the Second Amendment: if you cut holes into the brick wall of blanket protections, the government is sure to come barreling through and effectively destroying the whole barrier. How libertarian-minded conservatives can tolerate Ashcroft is beyond my limited ability to comprehend human irrationality.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the reporting of exit poll data has been legally found to be protected speech in prior law. I could be wrong. A better answer is just to encourage a civic-minded sensibility among the news reporting agencies so that they voluntarily refuse to report exit poll data until after the polls close. Or even after all the polls close.
Quality of data issues (Score:1, Interesting)
If you tried a telephone survey today, you would discover that Republicans are likely to have money to spend on "Caller ID" and "Privacy manager". Now it's the Democrats who are over-represented in a telephone survey.
Even if you bag the telephones entirely and survey people outside the polls, the Republicans are perhaps more likely to decline a survey response because of the steady stream of marketing that is directed towards people with money.
Some times the old ways are best (Score:2, Interesting)
Agile anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
single deliverable at the end are notorious for
not delivering on time.
Several things come to mind immediately from the Agile methodologies
playbook:
1. The customer should not set technical requirements.
2. A working (but not feature complete) version
of the product should be delivered no less
frequently than every three months.
3. The customer should set business requirements
with one voice. If that means that the various
customers have to vote on what's most important,
then so be it.
4. Features should be implemented in the order
that it's most important to the customer.
And we haven't even gotten into the software
engineering yet!
John Roth
Why so quick to dump the mainframe? (Score:2, Interesting)
Then, they proceed to fix the service that's not broken by a)completely junking the proven, tested old system before a quality, fully-tested replacement solution is ready, and b)leaning hard on their (poor, overworked
I'm not a troll, so I won't dwell on how Java (and WebLogic) runs well on OS/390, and Linux runs on the mainframe just as well as on any other platform (and Java and WebLogic run there,of course, also); but those solution possibilities are there, needless to say.
Even if they were going to replatform the whole system, why in God's green earth did they junk the old system before the new system was in place? I mean, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that you don't completely scrap your #1 bread-and-butter application before its replacement is ready and in place. Even if the new system would be light-years better... some information is better than no information (from the point of view of the networks)!!
I agree with many of these previous posts... this is, among other things, a bad case of project managers and clueless executives getting caught with their pants down -- big time.
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:1, Interesting)
Up unitil the 1960s, most US citizens to vote just fine for *INSERT POLITICAL BOSS' SLATE HERE*, it was just a matter of *INSERT TOKEN PAYMENT HERE* or your *INSERT BODY PART HERE* might get broken.
Seeing political candidates marketed like soap is depressing, but let's not go overboard and glorify the bad old days.
And anyone with the slightest clue about historical ethnic and racial divisions in this country wouldn't so easily dismiss "demographics". Enjoy your Beaver Cleaver fantasies.
IBM Didn't Let 'em Down (Score:3, Interesting)
Reading further, I think that one can tell what went wrong with this project: rather than relying on proven technology, they wanted to make it all snazzy: voice recognition, Java, web application, XML &c. &c. &c. ad infinitum. Instead of sticking to what works, they went with what doesn't. It's like replacing a rock-solid program written in Lisp and running on a Unix system with something written in Visual Basic written on Windows. Don't have high hopes: it may run as well or better, but I'm not betting on it. The likely answer is that this system was over-designed and under-implemented. Too much fun, cutting edge technology and not enough old-fashioned engineering.
Disclaimer: I work for IBM--when I saw the writeup, I read the article. I have nothing to do with our OS/390 division or our DB2 division. I'm a Unix admin, that's all.
VNS has its own structural problems (Score:3, Interesting)
This combination leads to skewed, pro-establishment news reporting.
So I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had a specification problem (as reported by the message from the guy who worked on it). It's completely consistent with the charter of the organization.
Re:Oh BooHoo (Score:1, Interesting)
More suspicious [alternet.org] folk can speculate about connections between this fiasco and the many other things [alternet.org] that Battelle Memorial Institute [battelle.org] does [nbcindustrygroup.com] for our government, and how well it does them.
Several groups already systematically Lying to 'em (Score:3, Interesting)
There are already several groups systematically lying to pollsters - especially exit pollsters, but also telephone pollsters, etc.
One of the points is to foul up the "parallel election" you mentioned, in the hope that they'll either stop it or be discredited and ignored.
But others are making various political points - again trying to get the pollsters to make wildly inaccurate predictions and lose credibility with the public (some of whome try to conform with the crowd and/or "vote for the winner") and/or with politicians (who, once elected become isolated from their constituents and tend to believe the media and the polls).
Meanwhile: When listening to poll results, take careful notice of WHICH polling outfit is doing the work. Some polls (including most that hit the airwaves) are commissioned by people who want to create an image and use it to swing popular opinion and/or legislators, rather than to actually measure public opinion. And some poll operations cater to this market to make money.
My impression:
Zogby: Actually tries to predict elections, and does perhaps the best job of it.
Field: Their results seem to completely mirror the Democratic Party line and are often wildly at odds with the actual results once an election is held.
Gallup: Depends on the poll and the season. Better than Field come election time (though not as good as Zogby) but still seems to whore on other issues between elections.