The Price Of Doing Business 797
8127972 writes: "It seems that a ton of high tech companies are leaving cities (like San Fran) with high costs of doing business for cheaper cities (Washington DC is mentioned due to new government spending) or even cities in Canada. Sounds like American high tech workers are going to have to learn to say the word "eh?" a lot."
Amazing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course there are also a lot of small citys that would kill for some high-tech company to move in. Seems like they could get some pretty good deals if they used that option.
Why do so many companies feel the need to be tied to a coast?
other related news (Score:5, Insightful)
They claim that a city will do well if they install a broadband communications network that connects citizens, local businesses and the global marketplace.
I think that the obvious solution to this may be Telecomutting See this link for more info [gartner.com]
Bad news for San Francisco - Bad strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Bad karma revisits landlords who threw out poor people for those who could handle higher rents! News at 11!
So they're going to Take Off, eh? (Score:2, Insightful)
The median cost of rent where I live is the highest in the country. It's a nice place, but I could be buying a house in Ohio every five years, it's that bad. Firemen, police, teachers, gardeners, and others with lower incomes have been leaving the area and are very hard to recruit. The irony is, where tech industries fled to, early on, have become a similar problem. Austin, TX is a great example, seeing insanely rapid growth and the problems it brought, Sacramento, CA went the same route in the mid 80's. However, if you're looking for a decent place out of SF, Sacto isn't a bad place to go. Lots of office space and lower cost of living.
Canada? Wouldn't the taxes alone make that less appealing? When I think it's expensive in California, all I have to do is remember the GST and PST I paid in Ontario. Gads. Probably lots of available land, but so has most of the midwest.
Rural IT Options (Score:2, Insightful)
Shameless Plug: rural communities with bandwidth can be found. Two I work in can be found at:
http://www.bowmannd.com
http://www.hettingernd.com
Columbus, OH....great place..... (Score:3, Insightful)
The burbs (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess the moral to this rant is that no matter where you go to after a while its the exact same as where you left. The small town life doesnt remain the small town life for long as soon as the town fathers realize that they can make tons of cash off the tech industry.
I cant wait for the days where a high speed access point and a video phone are all you will need and you can work from anywhere.
Never understoof. (Score:2, Insightful)
These guys are MBAs and they can't figure out how to spend less money. It blows my mind.
Availability of talent? (Score:2, Insightful)
You can move the company, but if only the lower half of the talent pool follows, it's not a very good decision.
Re:Sure, whatever. (Score:2, Insightful)
Canadians are extremely competitive internationally. Americans are simply over-paid; that is why America is an importer nation, because American-made products are also over-priced internationally.
Finally, some sense (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm no authority, but I am just glad to see things finally evening out a bit. A town isn't meant to consist 100% of high tech profitable firms. They need teachers and "sanitation engineers" and whatnot -- the guys who don't make a zillion dollars a year to pay for the housing.
Re:blame canada? (Score:4, Insightful)
Trust me, my fellow techies, if you ever move up here, get an apartment or house within two or three minutes walk of a Tim Horton's. You will not regret it.
Krispy Kreme blows away Horny Tim's (Score:2, Insightful)
Once KK enters the Canuck market, you are going to see Tim's get hammered (or vastly improve their donuts in response)
Diversity and Tolerance are why the Bay Area wins (Score:4, Insightful)
For techies - it means that you are respected and accepted everywhere, no matter what you look like.
It is the opposite of the nightmare world Jon Katz describes in "Voices from the Hellmouth". Nobody who has been dumped-on for being smart or diferent wants to go back out into the cold.
Attempts to replicate the Bay Area have to replicate this tolerance too - which often requires a massive, slow change in attitude.
-- Jamie
Re:other related news (Score:4, Insightful)
Sandhill Rd is the only true "prestige" address (Score:4, Insightful)
How many other places in the country can you place an ad for an esoteric vertical technology and reasonably expect 100 good resumes??
Re:Price of Living in Canada (Score:5, Insightful)
That is highly doubtful. Canadians have always had a higher standard of living than Americans, and until just this year, the highest standard in the world (displaced by Denmark, I think). America is barely in the top ten.
Honestly, so many Canadians don't seem to know how well they have it!
Re:South Carolina!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
* Well, it is South Carolina
* Convincing your staff to move here
I've lived in South Carolina for most of my life and I wouldn't say it's a bad place to live and actually right now I'd much rather be there than here in colorado where it's -20 with the wind chill
On a side note, you will have to get used to a few cultural differences: "ya'll damn yankies better no be comin' don her and talk 'bout no 'civil war', ain't been no 'civil war', ya'll must mean da 'war o' nothern agression'!"
Re:Well, except for one thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
What could be harder than proving you have a college degree, can speak English, and a job offer? That's most of the "points" you need right then and there!
Especially compared to the 6-7 years of hoop-jumping with INS -- an agency that seems dedicated to the propostion that terrorists can get in just fine on student visas, but technology professionals have to stick with the same job for the better part of a decade and beg for permission from a state employment agency (3-6 months), the federal department of labor (another month), then back to the INS to ask for permission to apply for a green card (between 3 months to 1 year), and then another year or two after permission's granted, to actually get the green card. Get laid off or company reorgs? Get on the next plane back home and start from scratch.
If you've got half a brain and a degree, getting into Canada to do high-tech work is trivial.
INS incompetency has made it clear that high-tech workers are neither wanted nor valued in the States.
Supply and Demand (Score:2, Insightful)
This is an age old cycle. High demand for realestate in SF = higher prices being charged for rent. Now that demand is down the prices are going to fall and new tenants will go there.
Nothing to worry about so long as the government stays out of it and doesn't do something stupid with rentals like they did with utilities.
Skilled Workers (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, but there is another factor that is important for high-tech companies that Gartner is missing: skilled workers.
I work for a company that has one of its offices in Edmonton, AB, Canada. Why Edmonton? Let's see:
The third point there is very important. Yes, it is possible to attract SV engineers to Edmonton, but it takes a *lot* of effort and incentive. One major problem is that a SV engineer may sell a bungalow for $600,000 USD. In Edmonton, you can get a mansion for $200,000 USD; there are no houses to be bought for $600K. So the SV engineer suddenly has $400K to pay taxes on.
So, the vast majority of people in R&D are local-area Canadians.
San Francisco's "Housing Farce" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Calcualate your new salary (Score:3, Insightful)
Homefair does not take into account the fact that many of our costs these days are interstate or not subject to local price limitations. The number for the "cheaper" state thus does not take into account that while local goods might be cheaper, vacations are not cheaper, mail-order computers are no cheaper, etc. In other words, a million dollars worth of caviar in Austin is probably about the same as a million dollars worth of caviar in New York.
Also, people's spending habits and the mix of luxury vs. normal, local vs. imported vs. domestic goods changes radically as income scales up and down. No single multiple can ever really reflect the difference in how far salary will go for a wide salary range.
Re:So they're going to Take Off, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
You may well find that what you thought you knew to be true, isn't.
San Francisco is just the beginning (Score:3, Insightful)
Businesses Need to Learn Too (Score:1, Insightful)
If businesses ran around all over the world looking for the cheapest labor (ie the lowest standard of living) they'd all be in Starvation City, Africa. But they're not, because (suprise! suprise!) 1. the workforce is uneducated, 2. the political landscape is untamed, 3. a 9 year old will blow your head off with an AK-47 for your Pez dispenser, 4. in six months the miserable country next door will have something awful happen there, pushing up people's desperation levels and you'll have to move your factory again to capitalize on the human suffering. What a pain!