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IBM Launches Public Domain Project "Eclipse" 205

ccf writes "NY Times is carrying an article about how IBM is launching a new developer organization (Free Reg blah blah blah) called Eclipse, for open source development. The article is not rich in details; it says the stuff will be in the "public domain" but makes no mention of specific licenses." If anyone can find some links that make more sense about what this actually is, please post them.
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IBM Launches Public Domain Project "Eclipse"

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  • by CDWert ( 450988 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:08AM (#2522309) Homepage
    Its awesome to see IBM commiting to Open Source software, I have been using a PC since 81 and I can remeber a time well, before the invasion of the clones, that seeing IBM back an Open Source project was a pipe dream. IBM still has more clout than anyone out there in the business market, kinda like the old addage, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM", lets hope it becomes, "Nobody ever got fired for using IBM open source"
  • how cute (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SirSlud ( 67381 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:13AM (#2522339) Homepage
    Are the big companies, in using Linux here and there in order to gain developer-share in the community, hurting Linux and OS or helping them, in your opinion?

    I mean, in a scenario like this, which looks like it will benifit the OS community, when/if things happen to sour (or Eclipse simply doesn't end up doing what IBM was envisioning) .. can these types of OS minded projects as started by commercial giants end up hurting the OS community more than helping it?

    Just curious ...
  • by SerpentMage ( 13390 ) <[ ] ['' in gap]> on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:21AM (#2522390)
    I had a chance to talk to an IBM evanglist personally at a conference. He was a fellow speaker. And we talked about the IBM OSS and Eclipse thing. From what I gathered it is going to be very interesting. Specially it is an OSS development platform where anyone can plug in their development tool. I remember that it was written in Java, but not specifically geared towards Java. In other words I could develop C++ code in Eclipse.

    And from what I gathered IBM is TRYING REALLY hard to become more OSS aware. The interesting thing is that while yes it is partly marketing it is also very much desire to see OSS work. Cool to see that IBM is hip again...
  • by LogicAli ( 533042 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:23AM (#2522398)
    It seems to me that there is some confusion as to what Eclipse actually is. Eclipse is a framework for writing integrated tools. The programming environment is a set of tools written using the eclipse framework, not the programing environment in itself.
  • by illusion_2K ( 187951 ) <slashdot@dissol[ ]ca ['ve.' in gap]> on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:40AM (#2522523) Homepage

    Maybe it's just me, but how does this project really differ from Netbeans [] (except for the whole Sun-IBM sponsorship thing). I've been using it for a while now and it does pretty much everything you mentioned above. It's also been out for a while now (coming out with version 3.3 when Java 1.4 comes out next year) and IMHO is fairly mature.

    I'm quite curious to know why I should consider switching.

  • Re:Trying to be Cool (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 05, 2001 @11:55AM (#2522630)
    Thanks for the troll. The base IDE will be available for free under an open source license. Anyone in the world can use it to develop their third-party software on top of, and sell it for however much they want. (No, the license isn't viral). IBM can develop their own applications on top of it (WebSphere, VisualAge, etc) and sell them for however much they want. Everyone will benefit from an open, free platform and application framework. The revisions and improvements will, of course, go back into the platform which (in case you didn't read the article) is OPEN SOURCE. So IBM can't steal and profit from these changes; that's ludicrous.
  • by Westley ( 99238 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @12:19PM (#2522780) Homepage
    I've been using Eclipse for a couple of months now, as my principal Java development environment. Until then, I'd been a text-editor-and-Ant guy (with Jed, a lightweight Emacs clone, as my text editor). Eclipse is the first Java IDE that makes me more productive, as far as I can tell. VAJ might have done, but the repository made it a pain to use.

    So, the repository: nope, it's gone in Eclipse. Eclipse *does* maintain a local history, however, and can use CVS very easily. I believe future versions (the R2.0 stream has been promised as "soon" for a short while - I don't expect it'll be long before it's available) will have a source repository plug-in interface (a lot of Eclipse is based on a plug-in mentality) which should make it feasible to integrate it with other tools.

    The best feature of the Java editors (for me) is the refactoring. Rename a class, method, parameters, package, whatever, and Eclipse will tell you what it's going to do to all affected source modules, and then do it. Likewise you can extract a block of code as a separate method, or ask Eclipse to give you empty implementations for all the unimplemented abstract methods in a class. Again, the refactoring interface should be available at some stage, and so hopefully there'll be a large list of refactorings available.

    Likewise, it has excellent searching facilities - just click on a method and ask for all the places it's declared/referenced, for instance. All very handy stuff.

    The support on the Eclipse newsgroup is excellent, and I'm not going to pretend that some of my support of it as a product isn't due to the fact that my first question was answered in a timely manner by none other than Erich Gamma. There are very bright people behind Eclipse. (OTI, basically.) There are also bright people working on plug-ins - Instantiations is working on ways to make it look more like VAJ for those who like VAJ, for instance.

    Now, I've only used a small part of Eclipse - the Java development environment. The idea is that it's not just for Java - Eclipse is an IDE *framework* which just happens to come with a Java editor almost as an example. As a Java developer, that may be all that I need, but I like the idea that someone may come up with excellent XML editors etc to plug into it as well. (I believe WSAD already has an XML editor, but an open source one would of course be a Good Thing.)

    One vaguely negative thing to note: although Eclipse is fast when it's up and running, it *is* a memory hog. Coming back after lunch and poking at it makes it obvious that an awful lot has been swappped out.

    On balance, I love it. Finally, an IDE which actually *helps* me...
  • by humps ( 245087 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @12:45PM (#2522918)
    this project has been around for a while, I've actually downloaded and compared (briefly) with some other SWING IDE. As an everyday SWING user (JBuilder, netbeans, TogetherJ), Eclipes is FAST! SWING just can't beat the speed!

    And Sun has created SWING, and this IDE GUI package is way faster than SWING and I can see SWING die. Hence it Eclipes the Sun. That's the real meaning.

    Don't mind if its another netbeans [] really, I use netbeans, as well as Forte, and maximum respect to those OSS people!

  • by burner ( 8666 ) on Monday November 05, 2001 @01:11PM (#2523088) Homepage Journal
    Whoops! you're mistaken. It was actually originally developed at OTI, a subsidiary that has a big office in Raleigh. Lots of stuff get developed at IBM around the world, then get shunted off to Toronto labs when they become fully productized. []
  • by GrayArea ( 69302 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {ecarglacitcat}> on Monday November 05, 2001 @01:27PM (#2523185) Homepage

    Apart from the SWT versus Swing issue that everyone already pointed out, Eclipse has a *very* good API for plugin development, the whole Java development environment is itself a set of plugins. You can even download a C/C++ environment for Eclipse [] from alphaWorks, though that only runs on Linux. I've been writing a plugin for it for the last month or so and it is a joy to develop for compared to Netbeans. From my experience, Netbeans API's accumulated a lot of cruft from version to version and are considerably harder to use.

    Eclipse has a quite advanced incremental build system, Java refactoring tools that work well (meaning without breaking the code), builtin CVS support with an excellent way of looking at team development (support for pluggable VCM systems is coming in a later version this month, I heard) and a *very* elegant and functional user interface. Performance is better than Netbeans, too. Apart from CVS support, Netbeans has a ways to go before it catches up with Eclipse on the rest of this stuff. On the other hand, Netbeans has better support for J2EE development in its free versions (Eclipse has none) and has a larger community, though Eclipse is just starting out. I was using Visual Age for server side development and Netbeans for other stuff before Eclipse came along and made a convert out of me.

  • Re:how cute (Score:2, Interesting)

    by chris_mahan ( 256577 ) <> on Monday November 05, 2001 @03:32PM (#2523992) Homepage
    Not saying that.

    All I'm saying is that the old expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" should be relegated to the antics of a past age.

    In today's complex world, all entities must walk circumspectly, carefully gauging the pros and cons of any endeavor, and not follow anyone blindly, no matter how lofty their motives might be.

    Perhaps the ref to WWII was a bit over the top, though.

The intelligence of any discussion diminishes with the square of the number of participants. -- Adam Walinsky