Under The Surface Of The BSA Anti-Piracy Campaign 292
cloudscout writes: "The Business Software Alliance has been sending out threatening letters to companies across the US hinting that they may be audited for licensing compliance. This article on Yahoo, tells the complete story. First, the letters are really just a marketing tool to sell more software. The BSA has no intention of following through with their threats. Second, and possibly even more importantly, the tactics are often resulting in a switch to open source software. It seems that nobody likes a bully. Play hardball and people will start taking their business elsewhere." My mom was genuinely frightened when she got The Letter, precisely because of the threatening tone this article discusses.
This was the argument for OSS at my last job (Score:2)
CEO:"Ever have to deal with the BSA?"
Boss:"Yup..."
CEO:"Complete F***'ing Bastards eh. God, they'll ruin your day"
Boss:"Yup.....how'd you like to tell them to go f*** themselves if they ever show up here?"
CEO:"Go on...."
When did BSA gain police power to enter and audit? (Score:2)
The BSA is not a police force. They have no power to audit. Even if they convince a court to issue a search warrant for stolen software, the BSA does not get to do the search. The gov'ts own agents do.
As operations manager at a business, individually setting up each PC woth a unique CD key is an unreasonable burden. There are thousands of PCs here. I install one machine with windows and office and whatever and CLONE it for new staff that needs it or when a machine is upgraded.
I have all the other licenses in a box in the office, but absolutely do not have time to put separate keys on each installed machine. And if the BSA thinks I'm violating the law they can go fuck themselves.
No court order until "reasonable suspicion" given. (Score:2)
The BSA cannot even do this, because thanks to software piracy now having status as a CRIMINAL LAW and not civil law, the accused is now protected by the "innocent until proved guilty" statutes. They don't have to prove their innocence, nor can they be forced to testify against themselves (you "required audit").
For Christs sake, that's the single most backwater response I've ever heard. "I'll shoot them if they dont get off my land."
Try forcing your way into someone's home claiming that your stolen [whatever] in in there. You bet you can be legally shot by the landowner. Deal with it. This isn't a socialist owned state.
Re:When did BSA gain police power to enter and aud (Score:2)
BSA may already have more than that to worry about. Seems that down in Dallas Texas, they are right now under criminal investigation for the threatening tone of a letter they sent to someone who is a favorite systems vendor to the Dallas police department. Something about the letter may constitute a 'terroristic threat'.
Bogus Numbers (Score:2)
These so-called "losses" are themselves fraudulent. First of all, they don't know how much piracy has gone on, they estimate. Second, they assume that everyone using pirated software would have gone out and bought the software (at full retail) if they hadn't pirated it. It is much more likely that the "pirates" would have sought out alternative, cheaper software.
"No receipts" != "stolen software" (Score:3)
He who accuses must prove guilt. Note that "silence of the accused" cannot be used to infer guilt.
Be Legal, use copied software in Taiwan. (Score:4)
"Legal Piracy will prevent people from creating IP". Nope. Taiwan has many LOCAL cool bands, many of them quite wealthy. So much for the theory that they aren't making money because of a lack of IP protections.
Now if someone puts Office 2000 on a Tqiwanese ftp server, what law is being violated?
Get over the idea that that "IP" is a universal concept and quit foisting your own believed "right think" onto others. Copyright is your religious beleif and it is not universally right. Other concepts on IP are equally valid.
Yankee go home.
The BSA is concerned about software piracy (Score:5)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.bsa. org [netcraft.com]
Thread Killer (Score:5)
Even better: (Score:2)
Re:Biggest problem with possible audits is the cos (Score:2)
Sounds good, but microsoft hasn't sold site licenses in a while. That causes major friction here. IS refuses to touch an pc with windows 98 on it (we have a site license for 95, which is valid forever), but many laptops do no support 95. Thus IS is becoming irrelavent for PC support, since they can't support what we need.
The same in the "brazilian branch"of the BSA: (Score:2)
Re:Is this how you want it to happen? (Score:2)
That's part of the reason that RMS chose to call it "Free" Software, it's all about Freedom from tyranny. In fact, RMS still believes that the primary reason that one should switch to Free Software is because of the freedoms that it provides. He believes that you should even use Free Software if it is vastly inferior to its commercial software rivals. BSA strong-arming, and anti-consumer features in the new versions of Windows XP will simply bring this type of freedom to the forefront.
Unlicensed free software? (Score:2)
"Yes, I want a CD with 300 copies of the GPL and a number of assorted other licenses. Wait, can I use the BSD option on this one? What changes have I made to it?"
In any case, I think Red Hat (or IBM?) should run a "Have you found you need more licenses? Come to our web site and download a couple." ad campaign.
Big Brother is Watching (Score:2)
___
Re:Maybe just using too much of the Bong-o... (Score:2)
You can't possibly suggest that the number of jobs would grow anywhere near proportional to the number of copies sold. While what you are saying is partially true, what do you think would create more jobs: an increase in the number of copies of Windows sold or an increase in the number of cars sold?
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
Ah, good thing you asked. GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + Net Export. Also, Investment = Savings (this is non-obvious and I'm not going to try to prove it here, but basically, the money you save banks use to give loans to other people, which they, in turn, use to purchase capital goods). Thus, consumption affects the economy in the short-term, while savings stimulates long-term growth. More on that in Economics 102.
But anyway, the companies' budgets are always stretched thin, and even more so now that there is a recession. Any increase in the operating costs would cause them to lay off workers.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
No argument there, but I didn't even get into that discussion. I concentrated only on the economic aspects of piracy. The legal/moral side of the story is a totally different debate altogether.
___
Bingo! (Score:3)
Apparently BSA deliberately ignores the simple laws of economics. The difference between the number of copies sold and the number of copies installed does not equal to the number of lost sales. Furthermore, both numbers are estimated, so there is lots of room for creative accounting.
Let's analyze this further. Another claim I often hear is that pirated software causes the loss of jobs: the loss of X revenue due to piracy causes the loss of Y jobs. I really wonder where they got the Y number from. Did they just divide X by the average wage or something? If a software company employs 1000 people and sells 100,000 copies of their software per year, does that mean they'd employ 2000 people if they sold 200,000 copies? How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
And here is the kicker: pirated software hurts the economy. Surely X dollars lost due to piracy means X dollars less in the GDP (in fact more than X due to the multiplier effect). Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things. Therefore, if all the piracy was ever erradicated, the software industry would benefit at the expense of all other industries.
Now, let's analyze the last point further. As I showed above, more copies of software sold do not translate into more jobs, since the marginal cost of making another copy of software is virtually zero. However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
I just love debunkning the BSA propaganda.
___
Find out illegal software using BSA's free "GASP". (Score:2)
There is only one restriction
Something nice they do whenever closing a website
Wondering if Attest Systems is promoting BSA
And some info about GASP:
The BSA version of GASP® is provided to you through the cooperation of the Business Software
Alliance and Attest Systems, Inc. The version you are about to download includes most of the
features and functions of the full release of GASP. It is, however, restricted to the audit (and
processing) of no more than 100 systems (desktops, laptops, servers) and will cease functioning
60 days after installation. To use GASP on more than 100 systems or for continued use you will
need to purchase the fully licensed version. Companies with 100 or fewer systems can easily
purchase a fully licensed version of GASP online at http://www.attest.com. Companies with over
100 systems are encouraged to contact Attest Systems, Inc. for purchase information. Phone
numbers for Attest are as follows: US/Canada 800-471-4277, Other countries: 415-209-1700.
Freaker / TuC
Re:ummm (Score:2)
If my mod points that were awarded on Friday hadn't expired already, I'd have given you some.
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BSA: (Score:2)
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Our sales sure jumped... (Score:5)
I work at a local computer/software store, and I've been hearing the ads (I live near one of the cities mentioned in the article).
And all last week, we've had people buying multiple copies of Office XP (now with new anti-consumer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpiracy features!) and Windows. All thanks to Der Gestapo at the BSA.
Interstingly enough, we got a huge shipment of Office XP and the Windows trinity (98/ME/100), enough to cover our recent spike in sales. Lucky us, huh?
Fortunately, as the *koff*koff*"Linux expert" at the store, I was able to do my part to make sure a few people walked away with some penguin-themed boxes...
Jay (=
Here's the NY Radio Ad (Score:3)
Like another comment said, this is almost like Joseph Stalin telling kids to turn their parents in.
Re:What's the problem? (Score:2)
The problem is the costs involved. For example, suppose I go, as someone else said, and buy a copy of Exchange Server and a bunch of client licenses. I don't bother buying any Windows licenses because I'll be using the copies of Outlook Express that came with the computers I bought. But if the BSA comes along at Microsoft's behest and audits me, how do I prove I own those licenses? The paperwork's probably long gone, or at least buried deep in wherever I store company paperwork. I probably threw most of the original CDs away, if I even got them, because how many copies of the same CD do you really need? Can you find the license document for the copy of Windows you're probably running right now?
Re:BSA enforceability (Score:2)
They could demand through discovery process a full auditing of your software usage. But that would be a process wherein they have filed a lawsuit already, and it would be under court supervision.
Without such authority, you should be able to just tell them to go away. But you better make sure you are clean, because that might just tempt them to file the lawsuit.
Re:The great part is (Score:2)
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Re:Don't try to frighten us... (Score:3)
The bugs you refer to will soon be propagated via
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How long... (Score:2)
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Re:wrong reason for changing to Open Source (Score:2)
p.s. How come no one ever sees a threatening letter from the BSA saying that they will come over and audit your compliance in registering shareware?
Re:Too much power- 150,000% BSA penalties (Score:2)
don't accept the click-thru EULA
don't install the software.
That would seem to be the most simple solution.
Have an *un*-installfest, followed by an Installfest.
a simpleton response.
Re:the NYC subways go one step further (Score:2)
Birmingham Small Arms (Score:2)
Re:Is this how you want it to happen? (Score:2)
Don't fret that Free Software picks up rejects from the other software models. At least this way they have a dedicated interest in giving Free software a chance instead of taking one look at the command line and running back crying to their windows.
-Restil
Economy of trust. (Score:5)
To harrass or accuse anyone of a crime when there is no evidence that such a crime ever committed is a very BAD idea from a service point of view. You don't harrass your customers to make sure that they're not cheating you out of a few pennies. In a large corporation, even one that spends a lot of time making sure they're 100% compliant, there probably is 1-2% of noncompliant software installed, including software that was installed more times than the licenses allow for, or software for which the licenses were purchased but no supporting documentation exists.
So the BSA threatens this huge corporation. Even at 1%, there is a lot of money to be lost even if the only fees the company will be levied with are the cost of the licenses. Its worth their effort not so much to get thier licenses up to date, but to reorganize their systems so that extra installation of photoshop that nobody uses is uninstalled. If they'll have to spend the money anyways, they don't necessarily have to send it in to the software company that is harrassing them.
It makes perfect sense to move to open source in light of these events. At least you will know that no matter how many times you reinstall that one copy you purchased, nobody will ever bother you about it.
-Restil
Snipers (Score:3)
Re:The great part is (Score:2)
Your Mom got the letter? (Score:2)
If the BSA stops sending these notices out ... (Score:5)
Re:the NYC subways go one step further (Score:2)
I heard a M$ lawyer comment that the biggest problem with the call centre handling "disgruntled employees" is that close to 99% of the calls are really one company trying to get competitors audited. Sometimes its a few rogue salesmen in one company trying to tie up the competition, other times its a well funded campaign to derail a deal with the wrong supplier. Since the last grass campaign netted very few violations for the large number of calls, they have been developing a whole scripting system for the front line call handlers to filtre as many bogus calls as possible.
They are now requiring face to face meetings with the grassers, before committing any resources to pursuing an audit. Even with more training for the call centre staff and about 20 dedicated auditing teams across Europe, they still expect only a few cases per year. Its not a revenue centre.
Most of the increase in income will come from the scare campaign, along with pressure from the channel on every company who gets a letter. They have been trying to set up a new training program for companies who want to be certified Auditors. The feeling is that a regular scare mail campaign with demands to produce a yearly system audit will create a large Audit Company market. The plan was that the channel would share in the money earned by an audit, about 10,000 euros minimum, up to several million euros for a large corp, by asking for a certified audit report at the beginning of contract negotiations.
With some more press coverage like this Yahoo article, I think I'll let customers know there is no teeth to the audit demands, and to just say no.
the AC
Re:This is an attempt to save face (Score:2)
I think there's a much more important reason that the BSA wouldn't dare go after a Fortune 500 company - those are the folks that are lining Bill's pockets the most. Piss off the CIO with one of these "audit" threats, and he's likely to get B. Gates on the phone and threaten to cancel that 50,000 seat license to SQL Server.
They also tend to have big legal departments that would just love to smack the BSA around like a red-haired stepchild.
Naw, bullies always pick easy targets.
Hi! How are you? (Score:5)
Re:And this is why you should licence... (Score:5)
What the hell, I just graduated, so here's my shot at it. (Besides, I gotta do something to make up for my shameless "Hi! How Are You?" posts!)
In the spirit of fairness, I'll address these to a Windoze audience. Obviously, going open source is the solution that allows you to avoid BSA harassment and remain legal. But since the BSA lives in a non-Open world, for purposes of this argument, I'll fight their arguments on their turf.
> 9. Proper software management saves time, money and makes employees more productive.
Arguably true. If you have processes in place for this, you've probably got decent process in place elsewhere in your organization. But that's a benefit to process, not to legal software :)
> 8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
ROFLMAO. Those goddamn "Elf Bowling" games are a prime source of viral infection. Warez aren't. Any warez group with sufficiently poor QA that they release warez with viruses will be hax0red into oblivion by their fellow pirates within seconds ;-)
> 7. Illegal software is more likely to fail, leaving your company?s computers and their information useless.
Not. See #8. I pay for my games, and then I apply the cracks/patches. Why? Because they're often more functional when cracked - for instance, I can use my CD-ROM drive to play background music, rather than having the disk in the drive.
(And back to the more likely case -- in what way does installing the OEM version of Windoze from CD onto a freshly-FDISK'ed drive, compared with Joe Sixpack, who gets his installs from D3LL with an extra 100 megabytes of vendor-supplied bloatware, half of which doubles as spyware, decrease the reliability of a system?
Indeed, I've seen far more data loss from "legal" vendor installation practices, such as "recovery CDs" that really mean "reformat and start over". Ghosted drive images (combined with partitioning strategies, such as a 1-2G partition for the OS, and the rest of the drive for data) provide real recovery, licensing be damned.
In this case, being legal (i.e. owning a license for a Windoze install and Norton Ghost, rather than pirating both products), could be every bit as good (from a data loss perspective) as piracy, but the BSA types have chosen that the default way to "be legal" (i.e. "recovery CDs" keyed to BIOS and/or PSNs) is the less-reliable option.
In their infinite wisdom, BSA has encouraged OEMs to make "piracy" (remember the controversy over Ghosting images being a violation of the EULA?) the better option from a reliability/reproducibility point of view. (Or as one sysadmin put it: "Yeah, right, like fuck I'm gonna install the same damn OS from the same fuckin' CD 10 times on 10 identical machines, especially since I just paid for 10 fuckin' OS licenses!!!")
> 6. You can expect no warranties or support for illegal software and won?t have access to inexpensive upgrades.
Hands up, anyone who's actually gotten support for products like M$Word or Windows.
And to the both of you who raised your hands, keep your hands up if you think you got better support through the vendor than you would have if you'd called the Psychic Friends Hotline.
Re:Moving to Linux... (Score:2)
As to the learning curve, when people realize that they can loose their business or their jobs because of this, they pay attention.
Re:Is this how you want it to happen? (Score:3)
Um...I don't get this... (Score:2)
I live in the US. The BSA shows up at my door. Why do I have to let them in said door? Why can't I just tell them to piss up a rope? I was under the impression that in the US the only people you have to let inside are police officers with a proper warrent. And if the BullShitters of America show up with cops with a warrent, why can't I just say "cops enter, BSA go screw yourselves?"
Re:The great part is (Score:3)
You clearly are an amateur at criticizing MS licensing tactics. If you were an experienced MS licensing guy (read=VICTIM) like me, you would criticize things like MSDN. Having attempted to activate 45 MSDN Universal licenses over the past month, I have come to the conclusion that MS is trying to become a services company partially by attempting to completely alienate their most hardcore developers.
ostiguy
My reply (Score:3)
Thank you for bringing to my attention my possible thievery. Enclosed you will find a VHS tape of me wiping my Windows partition, as well as removing all Adobe and Macromedia software from my Linux partition. You will also see that I have burned all of my commercial software discs so that they do not fall into the hands of evil, Nazi-loving software pirates. Since I am no longer a licensee of any of your softare cartel's member companies, I will assume that this matter is closed and any further action on your part will be taken as harrassment and will be dealt with accordingly.
Again, thank you for bringing this urgent matter to my attention.
Sincerely,
$ENDUSER
Dear Mr. Luigi (Score:4)
Dear Mr. Luigi:
It has come to my attention that you might be using software that, shall we say, fell off the back of a truck. The very thought wounds me deeply, as I know you would never show such disrespect to a friend.
I am therefore going to give you a chance to make... amends. I do this out of respect for you, as you have been a loyal customer of ours. I am sure you will want our protection in future, and I am sure that you will do the right thing.
Sincerely,
Godfather Gates.
P.S. I am sure I do not need to remind you of the unfortunate accident that befell Mr. Mario, when he unfortunately allowed our insurance to lapse.
</voice>
Re:So too many machines = OK to break rules? (Score:2)
Yeah right. So that it is within easy reach of any disgruntled employee for trashing just before he leaves (...and turns his employer in, two weeks later...)
Re:And your hardware is free? (Score:2)
There is a big difference between intellectual propery and physical good. Let's take your example, lamps:
- You don't see lamp manufacturers actively encouraging disgruntled employees to break their desk lamps. Sure, it might boost sales, but lamp manufacturers are above such sleezy tactics.
- Lamps are actually useful, and if broken, it gets noticed pretty quickly. Whereas a missing license sticker on a PC might not get noticed for months... You'll never know for sure whether it was Joe who tore off the license of his computer when before he left, or whether that computer was part of a batch which happened to have no sticker, or whether it was Paul who did it 3 months ago, before he left!
- Motivation is difficult to prove. Somebody might have torn off the sticker, not because he wanted to get his boss into trouble, but just because he considered it an eyesore. However, smashing a lamp is somewhat harder to justify. If the fluorescent lights in the office annoy you, you just leave them off. But you don't smash them.
- And most important: people never leave or get fired over their taste in desk lamps (well not usually [imdb.com], at least). You get that distinct "they slept with the dragon; they got eaten by the dragon" mentality that fosters poetic justice.
> And we'd better not accumulate any intellectual property, as it may be disclosed.If this is company-owned IP, it will in most cases be only known by a handful of people. And if it tend to get leaked, it will thus be pretty easy to find out who did it (Who had access to it? Who had a motivation to do it? Where did the leaked info first turn up?). Of course, the raise of the Sircam [f-secure.com] and Magistr [f-secure.com] virii has changed the outlook on this issue (pun intended...) by providing enough plausible deniability, but this is a quite new phenomenon.
of course! (Score:3)
That's one of the major points of free software, freedom!
Then there is the fact that everyone can look at the code to, learn, improve the code, simple enjoyment, security reasons...
This is definately a good thing.
Re:When did BSA gain police power to enter and aud (Score:2)
Re:Dear BSA... please audit for *Barratry* (Score:2)
barratry
n. creating legal business by stirring up disputes and quarrels, generally for the benefit of the lawyer who sees fees in the matter. Barratry is illegal in all states and subject to criminal punishment and/or discipline by the state bar, but there must be a showing that the resulting lawsuit was totally groundless. There is a lot of border-line barratry in which attorneys, in the name of being tough or protecting the client, fail to seek avenues for settlement of disputes or will not tell the client he/she has no legitimate claim.
Too much power- 150,000% BSA penalties (Score:4)
This is a 150,000% fine negotiated down to a 1,000% fine. (or 1,500x down to 10x) How does the BSA get to levy fines so out of proportion to actual damages? Is software piracy that much worse than discharging toxic substances into waterways (max fine $125,000)? Misbranding a drug in interstate commerce (max fine $100,000)? Violating the Sherman Antitrust Act (the fine listed in Section 3571 (d) is "not more than the greater of twice the gross gain or twice the gross loss" caused by the conduct...)?
Assuming that "hundreds" = 500 copies found, then the LAUSD had found roughly 1 copy per school, or 1 copy per 120 employees ( it has 60k employees total). The BSA got to treat the LAUSD as if it had found widespread felonious behavior rather than a few years worth of a few people deliberately or mistakenly making copies. That is too much power for one relatively small group (sure, $3 billion sounds like a lot, but per capita that's only $30/ working adult). Extraordinary fines should require extraordinary proof, but instead the BSA has you do all the work, and unless you are completely clean, you're faced with that 1,000x fine.
Put another way: if local traffic courts had $100,000 tickets for speeding, you'd feel grateful if the court "reduced" the fine to $666. But should the original ticket be so high? Most people would have to accept whatever the court says, because the original penalty makes it almost impossible to fight- you'll fight a ticket if you can accept the possibility of failure- with the original penalty so high, that risk cannot be taken. Not to mention if *you* had to show that you didn't speed, even a little bit, and lack of evidence = proof of guilt.
The BSA's power fails the Categorical Imperative [erau.edu] test (i.e. only set rules for yourself that you'd be willing to accept as rules for everyone). Imagine if every association had the BSA's power. Failure to pay overtime can be worth hundreds to an employee. So lets have unions get the power to force self-audits for overtime, with $400k fines per violation. Or not paying a consultant on time... I think $200k is an appropriate fine, and half should go to that consultant, of course.
Re:The BSA is concerned about software piracy (Score:2)
I wonder if they paid for that copy of MySQL [mysql.com] ...
(MySQL now comes in a new dolphin flavoured package [mysql.com].)
Re:"Show me your search warrant" (Score:2)
--
Lord Nimon
I wish they'd crack down... (Score:2)
Very interesting... (Score:2)
Still, Kruger insists: "We don't visit any of these companies. The ones getting the letters are not under investigation."
(My italics.)
So the BSA is sending out thousands of letters deliberately worded to promote Fear'n'Doubt, to people who are not under suspicion?
Sounds like grounds for a cease and desist order, or even a class action suit.
Re:the NYC subways go one step further (Score:2)
This whole thing reminds me of that ad, like a repeat of history. Disgruntled employees undermining The American Way, pirating software in a communist fashion that destroys good corporate, American values. The communist domino effect that Americans were so worried about is the same idea as the Free Software cancer effect that Microsoft is throwing about now. It's all very absurd, and in addition to being a scare tactic, it places 100% of the blame on the companies themselves. "You have these rough paper towels, creating disgruntled Bolshevik employee software pirates!" No surer way to tick off a good customer than to blame them for doing something wrong and then telling them to run their business better.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Re:The BSA is concerned about software piracy (Score:2)
FreeBSD is not Free Software. Open Source, shure. Even Microsoft likes the FreeBSD license, as it is allowed to steal that code, remember?
Also Apache is not Free Software; it doesn't use GPL but the Apache Group License, which is basically a BSD license (you don't have to distribute the source code). I guess same applies to PHP as well.
MySQL is Free Software, double-licensed with GPL and proprietary licenses.
Re:If the BSA stops sending these notices out ... (Score:4)
Re:Silly posters in NYC... (Score:3)
saw this silly poster in the subway... It's bright yellow, and it says,
If I know my typical, jaded NYC dwellers, I sincerely doubt that they'd be cowed into software subservience by the Boy Scouts of America.
Re:Too much power- 150,000% BSA penalties (Score:2)
The purpose of a fine isn't to recoup actual damages, it's to deter people from taking the risk. There is a subway stop in Toronto that has two ways of accessing the train track: one through the legal system of paying $2 and going through the turnstyles and another by going in where the bus pulls into the station (a bus rider doesn't have to pay to access the subway). The fine, if you are caught, for using the second is $500. That's (coincidentally) 150x the cost of going in the legal way.
Basically, you then have to look at it like this: if you feel you can cheat the subway system 150 times, then the economics say you should go into the bus area. I personally think that trying this 150 times will almost definitely get you caught once, so it isn't worth it.
If the fine was $2, then I might as well try it, because the worst thing that can happen is they catch me and I pay the normal amount. This would cause them to have to have a gaurd posted there 24/7, which costs them money.
As for your examples, I really don't see anything wrong with fining a corporation who doesn't meet OSHA or union requirements for overtime much more (yes, even 150x more) than the amount they were supposed to pay out if the act was done either willfully (they decided to take a chance and not pay it) or through serious neglect (they never bothered to ensure correct payments through random self auditing and had no intention of checking). Not paying a consultant on time can seriously effect a lot. Right now I am buying a house and if my employer decides to skip a payment between now and closing, I will definitely not get the morgage.
I'll never get one of these letters (Score:4)
____________________
A modest proposal (Score:2)
Why not have the FBI and state police investigate the BSA for full compliance. Seems fair to me.
hope you jumped too! (Score:2)
Yeah, yeah, keep it honest. Sell people what they want, be careful of store policy... but tell the truth to your cusotmers policy or none! Good luck.
Innocent until proven guilty (Score:2)
Re:Maybe just using too much of the Bong-o... (Score:2)
Not necessarily true. In the Microsoft anti-piracy campaign, the burden is on the customer to prove his software is legal. A couple of years back I worked at a rather large organization (5000+ seats) which was largely a Microsoft house (with scattered pockets of OS/2 users). All PCs company-wide were replaced on a three-year cycle; new purchases were from established companies (IBM, Toshiba or Dell) and came preinstalled with Windows OSes.
One day, Microsoft came knocking, and politely requested us to produce a license not just for each current seat, but retroactively for the past five years stretching back to Win3x days. In that period of time something like 25,000 PCs had moved through the company. As you can imagine, it was impossible for us to locate licenses for even half of them.
The result was that the company was forced to pay several hundred thousand dollars to Microsoft to repurchase licenses on machines that had been legal all along; this included something like 3500 Windows 3.1 licenses for machines that had been depreciated out of the organization years ago.
In addition, each new machine that came in was wiped clean and reconfigured with the company's standard configuration. In some cases, machines that preshipped with Windows 95 were reconfigured with NT, and vice-versa. In other cases, machines that had been upgraded over the years (from, say Win3x to Win95). In many of these cases, we were forced to pay for multiple licenses, often on machines that no longer existed, one for the original installed OS, despite that fact that it was A) already legal and B) never even used, and one for the upgrade or target OS.
In sum, despite the fact that, to my knowledge, there wasn't a single unlicensed OS in the entire organization, we ended up dumping hundreds of thousands of bucks into MS's coffers simply because we couldn't prove that we were innocent. So much for American justice.
The great part is (Score:3)
Just ask Princess Leia (Score:2)
There's a great and classic quote from Star Wars that summarizes the situation well:
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Karma down to 50 again. Thanks Karma Kap.
Re:Is this how you want it to happen? (Score:2)
I can't disagree more strongly. This is essentially why RMS came up with the GPL in the first place. His immediate motivation wasn't to find a better way of squashing bugs or higher security. It was to avoid the obnoxious behavior of the companies that were selling proprietary software (though most of them were primarily hardware vendors at that time). He felt that their licensing practices were draconian and treated users as enemies. That's why placed so much emphasis on licensing issues; because licensing issues were what got him started down that path in the first place.
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Karma down to 50 again. Thanks Karma Kap.
Don't try to frighten us... (Score:5)
*cough*
*gag*
Re:ummm (Score:2)
I'm curious as to how they're selecting victims (Score:2)
Anyone have a clue whether the BSA is actually asking an audit of companies who've made some purchases or are they simply going after anyone who's recently filed the appropriate paperwork to start or continue running a business? Reason I'm curious is that ever since I filed my paperwork I've gotten a huge amount of junk mail, much of which has dire warnings about this and that. So, is getting the BSA letter merely a matter of time, or do you have make some purchases to get their attention?
Consumer fraud? (Score:3)
Re:When did BSA gain police power to enter and aud (Score:2)
Somehow I'm not shocked at the idea that this whole thing is little more than a shakedown. And I rather hope those who are dumping MSware number more than a few...
/Brian
Re:The letter (Score:2)
Signed, Spiny Norman the Hedgehog
Re:This is an attempt to save face (Score:2)
They sure as hell weren't expecting the US Court of Appeals to give them the stay of execution and then say "Hold on, boys, we haven't disconnected the switch just yet..."
What they do understand is intimidation. If they lose that they lose the battle.
/Brian
Re:When did BSA gain police power to enter and aud (Score:2)
/Brian
Re:Unlicensed free software? (Score:3)
(It might actually be useful for a Linux distro company to make sure their support costs are getting covered, though...)
/Brian
"Show me your search warrant" (Score:2)
If the BSA shows up at your door, just don't let them in. If they force their way in anyway, that's called burglary. Sure, they can use legal force to get in by bringing US Marshals and/or FBI agents with them, but they would then need a search warrant.
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BSA? Anti-Piracy? (Score:2)
Being a Canadian (Score:2)
Is this how you want it to happen? (Score:2)
They get threatened and pickup free software out of fear, or do you want them to do it on their own accord without proprietary bullying?
I guess anyway is a good way in most respects. At least more people will try it....
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Fnord is that feeling you get when you reach for a Snickers and come back with a Slurpee.
ummm (Score:4)
Shouldn't the quote be: "The tighter you squeeze the more systems will slip through your fingers"?
the NYC subways go one step further (Score:3)
Now, if you've ever commuted on the NYC subway, you know that EVERY ONE of the people on the subway in the morning are disgruntled, and on the ride home, those that aren't have become suicidal. I wonder at Microsoft's not-too-subtle play to get people to turn in their own workplaces. It feels (and I hesitate because of this) like a similar idea to violence in the media, but I wonder whether people (80% of the BSA's business, in fact) would know how to tell Microsoft or the BSA about software piracy without the handy URLs provided on every poster.
thoughts?
Re:And this is why you should licence... (Score:4)
8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
Since that vast majority of illegal software is microsoft, does this mean that microsoft software is more likely to fail, have viruses, and have other defects?
;-)
Re:When did BSA gain police power to enter and aud (Score:5)
Once done and BSA finds out how many copies of everything you have installed, they must then prove that you have not purchased licenses for all of them. They'll usually do this by issuing a discovery subpoena for all your software purchase receipts. If you cannot show all your receipts, all is not lost... In a protracted court case you may be able to show that based on the preponderance of the evidence BSA has not shown that you were not in compliance. The court case would probably cost a couple million in time and lawyer's fees. However, it would cost BSA just as much... What they will really be looking for is a settlement.
Now what would be more fun is to have the BSA audit you and then be able to prove compliance. You can then sue the BSA for a variety of penalties, and you can have them reveal who ratted you out and sue them. Of course, the BSA knows this which is why they say in the article that they do not seek court orders frivolously. A couple lawsuits against the BSA from companies that were compliant and audited could bring them to ruin.
Maybe just using too much of the Bong-o... (Score:3)
How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
Jobs arent just making copies. Jobs are research, jobs are faster releases, jobs are more stable releases, jobs are new programs completely, which equates to more money. etc. The list goes on. This all takes money in the first place.
Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
This is based on a false assumption. Does more car sales mean less software sales? I argue that it does not. Money doesnt always neccessarily get spent. Sometimes it is saved.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
More software sales means more jobs within that company as it expands to meet new markets. That isnt neccessarily a good thing all the time (read: microsoft) but its no reason to steal software.
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I got one... (Score:3)
A. Big fines from the BSA, or B. Big savings from Microsoft.
(paraphrased)
And they sent it to the mailing label name/address combo I get all kinds of small-business related junkmail at-- which contains a serious typo so I already recognize it.
How weird... (Score:3)
Re:The letter (Score:5)
Dear $WHOEVER,
Many people do not know they are using unlicensed software and that it's a violation of copyright law. The Business Software Alliance is currently targeting businesses in the $YOURCITY. If your company is using unlicensed software, it could become the focus of a BSA investigation.
The BSA - an association comprised of Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, CNC Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec, and UGS - works to educate teh public on the importance of software compliance and to enforce intellectual property rights.
The BSA is calling a Truce. You have until $ENDDATE to get legal.
The BSA is offering a Software Truce in Newnan between $STARTDATE and $ENDDATE. Please take this time to review your software installations and usage and, if necessary, acquire the licenses you need. If your organization becumes fully licensed during the Truce, BSA will not seek to impose penalties for any unauthorized copying that occurred before $ENDDATE (unless your organizations has already been informed that it is under investigation). If the BSA contacts you, just show your Truce Participation Number and software purchase receipts to take advantage of the Truce. [Please see reverse side for terms.] Unauthorized copying is the same as stealing. If you're caught, your organization could face penalties totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Not sure if you're fully licensed? BSA can help you find out
Trying to determine whether your organizatio is using illegal software? Visit BSA's web site at www.bsatruce.com [bsatruce.com] for more information and to download our free Software Audit tool, or call our special Truce hotline at 1-877-536-4BSA (1-800-536-4272). If ou find that you aren't 100% locensed, contact your software vendor immediately and but the software licenses you need before the Truce ends on $ENDDATE.
Sincerly,
Bob Kruger
Vice President
Business Software Alliance
Re:The letter (Score:3)
Again, how many of you read the article? (Score:4)
Dear BSA, (Score:3)
You are encouraged, and in fact demanded, to follow through on your threatening letter by the close of business on 01-Dec-2001. Failure to do so may result in the continued use of illegal software /* deletes deCSS archive and mirrors of Touretzsky's server from our quaint little dental office */ and other actions at our discretion. As you may know /* I think I read this somewhere */, it is against the law to knowingly threaten legal actions with no intent on following through on them. /* Barratry? In terrorem? Something... */ Please be sure to come out and investigate us as soon as possible.
Have fun!
Rgds,
Office of Dr. BillX, Family Dentistry
PS. Please ignore guard dog and electrified doorhandle.
(Enc: Cream cheese dildo and helpful usage suggestions.)
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And this is why you should licence... (Score:3)
Here are 10 reasons why companies should participate in BSA's Software Truce Campaign today:
9. Proper software management saves time, money and makes employees more productive.
8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
7. Illegal software is more likely to fail, leaving your company's computers and their information useless.
6. You can expect no warranties or support for illegal software and won't have access to inexpensive upgrades.
Now, I agree that if you're going to use software that's licenced, you should pay for it, but these reasons are just asinine! I won't even bother tearing most of these apart, I leave that to a kindergarden class.
90% of software 'copying' (I will not stoop to their level by calling it 'piracy') is using the same CD to install on multiple machines. Who are they trying to kid? Don't they realize it just makes their argument weaker?
Re:wrong reason for changing to Open Source (Score:3)
I really hope companies will change to Open Source for its quality and stability and not because of BSAs tactics.
Why is that so bad? Companies don't make software decisions based on coolness or justice. They make decisions based on the bottom line. How difficult software is to use equates to lost money in terms of man-hours and attrition. Difficulty in finding applications also equates to lost money in terms of man-hours in searching and/or consulting fees/salaries for writing their own. Companies choose microsoft software because it's cheap. It's cheap because you don't have to train people (very much) how to use it. Everyone writes applications for it. Hardware comes with it already installed, saving time. And businesses take the entire picture into consideration when considering the costs.
But believe me, as soon as there's a perception that simply having microsoft software will create a bottom-line-related nightmare and possible litigation, companies will abandon it. Partially because it's free (beer), but mainly because it's free (liberty).
That gives total cost of ownership a whole new meaning.
Re:Irony... (Score:4)
Yeah, no kidding. They should have started out the letter with:
"AVAST, YE SCURVY DOGS:"
Yeah, I had to deal with this... (Score:3)
My boss insisted after getting a letter from the BSA that I make sure "all software was compliant". Needless to say my boss has no idea how these things work, so I ended up being able to let him buy very expensive applications like photoshop.
The fines the BSA threatens are ridiculous, like in the hundreds of thousands. That would be our entire company's monthly income. My boss made sure that I made sure that we had all legit software.
I tried making a movement to open source apps here at work, because everyone kept opening VBscript viruses and such and making a whole lot more work for me that I wanted. However, My boss refused. It took our secretary, my boss, and a few others months just to learn windows, and they can't escape the idea that files on the desktop actually exist in a folder called "desktop" in the windows directory. So, it's free software but everyone knows learning curves aren't cheap.
Irony... (Score:5)
Major Losses of Revenue???? (Score:5)
I remember something from my freshman English professor. She told us to avoid using the phrase "To be sure," in an article, because that meant you might as well say, "I'm full of bullshit, please believe me."
Piracy does not result in a loss of revenue, because many of those people aren't going to buy the product anyways. I know a lot of people who would switch to StarOffice if it wasn't so easy to get Office for nothing. It's the same problem that comes up every time there is an article in the newsmedia about the RIAA or the MPAA. I'm not sure what a better term for it would be, perhaps unrealized potential revenues? It's not a loss though. Check their income statement, no item for "Losses due to piracy."
Forgive me for not trusting the BSA for the stats on that either. That's like getting your lung cancer stats from Philip Morris.