Free Wireless For Fun And / Or No Profit 139
An Anonymous Coward pointed to this San Francisco Chronicle story about San Francisco's wireless networks there for the taking, set up for convenience but left open to anyone with an 802.11 card to grab packets, and in many cases, hop on the networks themselves. Sometimes that's intentional, other times it's not. The article mentions some of the well-known public wireless projects consume.net and Seattle Wireless, but what about your city? It would be interesting to find out and map where else folks have found (or founded) pockets of free bandwidth.
You goddamn trolls (Score:1)
All your wireless networks are belong to whoever owns them,
All your 802.11 cards are belong to their owners.
All your bandwidth are belong to no one.
Move on with your lives... this joke is about as new and refreshing as a week old bottle of flat diet pepsi.
Cool idea.. (Score:1)
Everyone who wants an Internet connection buys at least a 802.11 tranceiver. Anyone who needs the highest speeds will likely still get a hard line from a traditional ISP, of course. Then, instead of the ISP's being the primary providers of bandwidth and routing, we create a loose P2P wireless network all across the country. So everybody is not only a user but provider of Internet access. To make the network private, all communication is encrypted. Sorta like a "wireless Freenet" in design. For this to work, encryption must be built-in and as transparent as possible so that even newbies will be forced to use it as default. Hmm.. I think IPv6 would be necessary as well for a gigantic IP space as users would end up switching IP's and subnets as they roam.
Now think of all the benefits.. Suddenly, we have Internet access anywhere for free. We have total privacy. We have free sharing of culture and ideas with absolutely no way for corporations to come in and stop it whether legal or not. And being wireless lends to portability--it can also replace all our cellphones / pagers / messagers / radios / etc. (Not to mention reduce our radiation exposure because transmission is shorter distance)
I'm sure there would be a lot of technical issues to resolve, but hey, that's what engineers are for, right? (-: Lets start brainstorming this..
Just what we need in the world (Score:2)
How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:5)
One of the problems with running an open wireless network (and Seattle Wireless thing which I have accidentally become part of -- see below) is "what if a bad guy starts using your network to do illegal things". Everything that goes out of your NAT router comes from one (fixed) IP address that has your name attached to it. So if you get an "unwelcome guest" who start using your network as a jumping off point what do you do if get the knock on the door from the police saying "we grabbed these from your network connection and we want to talk to you"? Tell them its not you but someone using your wireless connection?
I was made aware of this sort of problem a week ago on my own network at home.
I thought I'd closed down my Airport (make the network name hidden and use MAC address authentication to prevent other than my machines from attaching to my network) but I screwed up and my Airport has been running open since I got it last May (and I think of myself as a security expert). I noticed some odd activity on and off during this time (and put it down to AppleTalk being chatty) until last week I sniffed some of these HTTP request packets on my network. I didn't like the look of the URLs. Someone was using wireless access to my broadband network connection to download illegal content. Of course its difficult to trace something like this (the IP of the intruders machine is given out by DHCP from the Airport) and I don't have any direction finding gear for 2.4GHz.
I've since properly secured my Airport but I wonder if the people who are enthusiastically setting up an open to all metro scale 802.11b networks have fully thought through who will be responsible if something like this happens on their connection. You may see yourself as a free ISP but you may have problems convincing law enforcement of that if something like this happens to you.
Similarly what if you just don't know much about wireless networking and leave your system with the default settings. I wonder about the people who just buy and Airport and connect it directly to broadband net connections without closing it down.
I'm also convinced that if you want to put an 802.11b router in the open you need to put a firewall on it and maybe a proxy too and you should certainly log the packets that come over the WiFi connection. You might want to make your policy open to users of you connection (but how you might do this is unclear -- there is no infrastructure to do this yet).
Re:Toronto? (Score:2)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why not check this out (Score:3)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Neighbor snooping? (Score:1)
Oh my!
Sacramento? (Score:1)
I just don't have the time or extra $$$ to do it now.
line-of-sight bridges? (Score:4)
I know this is talking about short-range omnidirectional signals, but it also gets me thinking about how it could possibly be used in conjunction with longer-range line-of-sight systems as bridges between these "pockets of packets", making the party even bigger. I don't know much about such systems -- the equipment would almost have to be much more expensive, but just how out-of-reach is it? Wasn't there a story a while back about some people "recycling" satellite dishes from a defunct TV service for such purposes?
For example, my house is in the Hayward hills above the San Mateo Bridge and with a view across the Bay of downtown San Francisco. If any of the people involved in this over there have a corresponding view, maybe we could set up a pair of directional antennas and bridge me in (drop me a line if interested). I can also see a lot of Hayward, San Leandro, and Oakland, so if there are any more LAN pockets there, then with another pair of antennas, I could serve as a bridge between them and SF. It's even possible that I could see someone in or close enough to Berkeley to form a chain between SF and the UCB campus, which is when it would get seriously cool.
David Gould
Re:Feel free to surf on my wireless (Score:1)
Re:tx rx (Score:1)
When people (Score:1)
Re:Would make sense for volunteer free wireless. (Score:2)
-Waldo
Re:Why not check this out (Score:1)
"GNet" in Boston area (Score:1)
Check out http://205.159.169.11/ [205.159.169.11].
Farther afield, it's too bad that only this Swedish group [www.abc.se] seems to be doing much with the point-to-point 10Mbps [qsl.net] link.
Re:Back bay (Score:1)
Re:How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:2)
Not to mention the real security problems that corporations face. The fact that you can stand in SF's financial district and get on some finance companies network is sorta scary from a security standpoint. (These guys are probably facist about analog phone jacks, but haven't clued into the fact that someone's iMac could be a huge security hole.)
--
Anyhow (Score:1)
The Nerve!!
Re:Anyhow (Score:1)
Who gave the RIAA Mod Access!?!?!
Re:You goddamn trolls (Score:1)
sorry...had to
-dk
Re:Would make sense for volunteer free wireless. (Score:1)
I don't know how to chage MAC addresses on a PC, but switching network cards would do the trick for sure. It is probably possible to set an adapter's MAC adress with software of some kind, too. You may have to write that piece of software yourself unless some hax0r beats you to it on the prospect of getting access to free wireless bandwidth.
Re:How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:3)
Re:Would make sense for volunteer free wireless. (Score:1)
PDX Wireless [pdxwireless.com]
-James
IEEE WirelessHUMAN (802.16b) (Score:1)
This is being done for the San Francisco Bay Area (Score:1)
Re:How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:2)
Question: (Score:2)
Plainly... if you want to put up some 802.11b gear without proper security.. you should know what you are doing.
Driveby Spamming (Score:1)
What happens if somebody sends spam to my ISP's SMTP server through my wireless connection? Properly configured SMTP servers will not relay messages from outside their networks. This protects the ISP from spammers. But once someone connects to my wireless connection, the SMTP server would let them right in because they're now inside the network. Right? The spam came from my IP address so I get my service terminated. Suddenly I have no high speed connection. Ouch!
Isn't there something called authenticated SMTP? Would this help?
Re:Back bay (Score:1)
Re:line-of-sight bridges? (Score:1)
--
Re:line-of-sight bridges? (Score:1)
It works beautifully, with far better stability than my old ISDN 128K connection, with a few caveats:
* For those Aussies on fixed-price cable or ADSL contracts, those on per-meg contracts are subsidising you. Apparently these costs should be coming down significantly in the near future.
In Canberra, people are using the old Galaxy pay TV aerials, with minor modifications, to create a wireless CAN [air.net.au].
Re:Toronto? (Score:1)
Re:Toronto? (Score:1)
Yahoo Club - Toronto Free Wireless [yahoo.com]
I did this so the topic wouldn't get lost in moderation.
Re:How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:2)
Likewise, running a open wireless network could shield you from legal prosecution. It would be difficult to prove any action was commited by yourself rather than a 3rd party.
Re:Would make sense for volunteer free wireless. (Score:2)
I'm not really concerned if someone leeches ONE mp3. I'm worried about the individual(s) who use this as their own private internet service instead of a momentary convienence for those who are mobile, as intended.
-Restil
Would make sense for volunteer free wireless. (Score:3)
However, its important that this service does not get abused. It needs to be used for WIRELESS access, not 24/7 mp3 leeching or commercial services which are better and more convienently used with wired connections. However, for convienent mobile access while sitting in a coffee shop or in the car, this makes a LOT of sense. A lot more sense than a 128kbps $79 a month option from a company that has one foot in bankrupcy court.
Everyone who spends money on the wireless interface probably already has a similar setup at home, and most likely has a high bandwidth internet feed. If they provide the same public access service, then everyone will benefit.
-Restil
Re:I'd like to see... (Score:3)
Check out the LinkSys BEFW11S4 [linksys.com], the D-Link DI-711 [dlink.com] or DI-713 [dlink.com], or the 3Com 3CRWE50194 [3com.com]. They all have the physical specs to do what you're asking. It's just a matter of finding out if their built in firewall abilities are flexible enough for your specific needs.
-Aaron
Re:I'd like to see... (Score:2)
A nice package that I could install... A firewall/802.11b combination. I plug in the cable modem ethernet in one port, and in the other 2 ports, my local protected network, and then a place to put in the 802.11b base device. That way those around me can have internet access through my connection.
Your wish is granted:
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?pri
and the review at:
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/reviews/lin
You're welcome
Sure they have (Score:1)
If you really want to stop RF then it's possible to stretch thin copper mesh between panes and ground it - can you say Tempest? Yes, I've seen this done in a real building and it wasn't cheap.
Heck, the bronze colored stuff they put on the windshields of some luxury cars to be used as a defogger (no lines) blocks out radar detectors so I'd assume it would stop or "slow" a low powered transmitter too.
Heh, enough examples?
So what?! (Score:1)
Heck, I'd love to participate in a network like this especially if there was some way to aggregate multiple lower speed connections like mine (144K IDSL). But not at the risk of some loser screwing it for me. Bad enough I have to suffer attacks on my own machines, I don't need the grief of explaining to my ISP and the (FBI?) that it was some random jerk not me that whacked a
Any of these networks based in the Northern VA area? and where can we get wireless cards that don't cost a mint? $500+ for a base station and card is pricey! (sigh) I can get something from Linksys just under that but not by much - it just so happens I've got a provantage catalog on my desk today
Re:public wireless internet (Score:1)
I meant to suggest that as that spectrum is being redeveloped from 1 way video delivery to 2 way broadband networking that the public retain public interest requirements in that spectrum by revisting ITFS licensing. Mr. Shirky raised the issue of a public wireless network. Since a minimum of public interest is being served by the ITFS service and much of the spectrum is being leased to Sprint and Worldcomm anyway, it seems that a better use of spectrum already set aside for public benefit would be to create such a public network.
public wireless internet (Score:4)
A better solution for Mr. Shirky's (slashdot interview [slashdot.org]) proposal would be to use the adjacent regulated spectrum that is being used for MMDS [sprintbroadband.com], a new broadband wireless service that is being rolled out.
The MMDS service occupies the same spectrum as ITFS [fcc.gov] (warning government website, design will make you cry), a service underutilized by universities to provide public service. The FCC is allowing these licenses to be snatched up by MMDS providers for gaining the licensees much ($40 [itfs.org] according to itfs.org [itfs.org]) and the public for which the service was created nothing.
Seems to me that putting some real public interest obligations on those licenses in the form of providing public wireless access would be a better use of that spectrum.
802.11 and 3G cellular access (Score:1)
All across Europe telcos have been spending vast sums of money to secure access to frequency spectrum for 3G services based, essentially, on the increased functionality made possible by high-bitrate mobile connections.
If, however, 802.11 becomes a unbiquitously available data connection in high population areas I can see it damaging a lot of the market forecasts for 3G takeup in the future.
Soon as someone produces a mobile device with inbuilt cellular and 802.11 access I can see some interesting new markets developing..
Re:Hell, I've got wireless already (Score:1)
Re:maps? (Score:2)
Global Wireless Access Database (Score:3)
The AP's are all user contributed, so if you've got one, or know of one, feel free to add it.
Feel free to surf on my wireless (Score:3)
It's 802.11 on an Orinoco Residential Gateway. No network name or encryption. All my MP3's are on the debian server under
Have fun! 8-)
bawug... (Score:1)
BTW. My NAP is fully open. Anyone on my block can use it if they want. If you live in the Inner Sunset SF drop me a line!
Re:I'd like to see... (Score:2)
This sounds neat, but ... (Score:2)
1- most ISP AUP's won't allow this
2- what happens when somebody abuses the
connection? It'll come from YOUR IP address, so
you'll get blamed for it. Naughty things they
could do include :
- sending spam
- sending threatening emails to the President
- posting copywrited stuff to Usenet
- hacking remote systems.
You get the idea. The authorities would come after you, and you wouldn't even have any way of knowing who did it (does the wireless ethernet spec have the equivilent of MAC addresses? If so, that might provide a unique identifier, but even so
3- the least of the problems, they could use up all `your' bandwidth
Bruce Schnier Article About 802.11 Security (Score:1)
Re:Bruce Schnier Article About 802.11 Security (Score:1)
Re:Bruce Schnier Article About 802.11 Security (Score:1)
Go here and check out the latest version:
http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html [counterpane.com]
Sorry,
Jason
What about clogged bandwidth? (Score:1)
Drive-By Spammings (Score:2)
Mapblast shows Lat/Long from Street Address (Score:2)
It will also tell you where the nearest Starbucks is, which could be useful depending on how open their wireless lan access is (intentionally or not :-).
How DO you secure an Airport? (Score:1)
You thought it was secure, but were mistaken. Eek! What did you do wrong?
Base station passworded & hidden, network password on Airport, WEP encryption, possibly with uprated Orinoco card, (although that might be of dubious usefulness, considering the state of WEP security,) and otherwise just good network security upstream, (first a private subnet for the wireless users,) but What else can one do?
I do like the SSH tunneling idea. That seems to discourage both hitchhikers and eavesdroppers, but might be a little unweildy.
Other suggestions, particularly airport & wireless specific please. I have done a search, but haven't been very impressed.
Re: your .sig (Score:1)
Sounds like a rave to me...
-jerdenn
Toronto? (Score:2)
this topic was already mentioned on slashdot a few weeks ago but this gives me an opportunity to get in before the topic gets too long ;). has anybody set up anything like this in the Toronto area? maybe i'll get an Apple Airport card afterall :)
- j
Re:Umm, stealing? (Score:2)
I suppose that could apply here where if they were sending their signals into public property or your property you automatically had a right to tap into them. It's interesting what you would consider your reciprocal signals going back into their private property, though.
Re:Umm, stealing? (Score:2)
Re:Toronto? (Score:1)
legal question? (Score:1)
Re:Hell, I've got wireless already (Score:1)
Re:How do you deal with illegal activity? (Score:2)
If I still had the mod points I had no use for yesterday, I'd give you a +1 interesting though
Rich
Re:public wireless internet (Score:2)
Actually, the INS website is pretty nice. Which makes me wonder when they said that my visa application would take so long to process because they were underfunded.
Rich (in the USA now.)
Re:Anyone Else Notice This ?? (Score:2)
The WikiWikiWeb works because:
So that's it - insecure, indiscriminate, user-hostile, slow, and full of difficult, nit-picking people. Any other online community would count each of these strengths as a terrible flaw. Perhaps wiki works because the other online communities don't. --PeterMerel
Re:Drive-By Spammings (Score:1)
LOL! Especially as I'm listening to the Mikado at the moment. Of course, if the tin were open, it probably wouldn't be too smooth...
Why is it? Cali always is ahead of everybody else (Score:1)
Lots of open systems in the world! (Score:1)
Re:Umm, stealing? (Score:2)
--
Could This Be The Sinister "Phase 2"? (Score:3)
From the article: A more capitalistic venture is the Starbucks-Microsoft deal announced in January of this year, which may lead to wireless access for customers in Starbucks coffee shops.
I think The Onion [theonion.com] already has the scoop [theonion.com].
Ok, maybe I'm an idiot... (Score:1)
Q: Radio or IR? (Score:1)
Natural Evolution (Score:1)
Seems to me that things like this are a natural outgrowth of the controls and limitations that are set on the Internet by various governmental agencies that feel that they have the authority to regulate virtual space.
Let's call it AdHocNet. Figure between ham radio geeks and computer geeks, there's going to be some overlap somewhere. Eventually, you'll see a new Net spring up around something the government can't tax or regulate (without mega- and giga-watt jammers)...this being radio waves. The FCC? Don't make me laugh.
Technology has become cheap enough where it's VERY feasible for the Geeks to say, "Screw you guys, I'm goin' home," and to build their own damn Internet using the materials that are available at any half-assed computer store. So the question is: why aren't we doing this?
That people are setting up their own access points and sharing them freely is a great first step. I'll probably set up something in my area with the same thing.
Until launch costs for satellites drop precipitously, I don't think AdHocNet would ever be able to cut its ties to landlines, but it's nice to think about...
----------------------------------------
Yo soy El Fontosaurus Grande!
Anyone Else Notice This ?? (Score:1)
Re:line-of-sight bridges? (Score:1)
Actually, the cost isn't the dish but the amps. For a simple 802.11 11mb system, the dish only runs $150-$250, a card around $150...and the amp around $600. The amp has to be finely tuned, bidirectional. It can't add interference to the signal it's boosting.
The equipment for a 100mb (5 GHz) link runs about $20,000 per side. Most of that goes into the transevier and the amp.
Another cost for making links is renting tower space. In Oklahoma, it runs around $600+ per month. I don't even want to guess how much it is in CA.
Help in Starting a Free NYC Wireless Network (Score:1)
I'm looking for other people that would be interested in organizing and contributing to this effort. Particularly needed are people with access points that are willing to make them publicly available. I already have two wireless locations that I would be willing to open for limited bandwidth public access. I'm sure there are many more NYC dwellers out there that wouldn't mind doing the same.
If you are interested or know of any other groups who are already involved in this email me:
tux172spambegone@earthlink.net remove 'spambegone'
maps? (Score:1)
Might be worth asking...
Re:maps? (Score:1)
If you are the type that knows your lattitude and longitude at any given point in the day without the use of a GPS, I'm worried for you!
However, I did check if there were any networks near my work and home.. didn't find any..
Thanks for the info though!
Re:I'd like to see... (Score:1)
On the other hand, it does have some access controls built in, so you can control what IP addresses (and ports, I think) different internal IP addresses have access to. It might be possible to configure this in such a way that IP addresses handed out via DHCP are prohibited from talking to anything else on the internal network. This would be a stretch since those access controls were designed for things like "don't let Junior's computer connect to FTP", so might not be up to the task of protecting different machines "inside" the firewall from each other.
Hell, I've got wireless already (Score:3)
Re:Hell, I've got wireless already (Score:1)
Should I open mine? VPN (Score:1)
Would using DHCP and then setting the router to not allow those IPs to use the VPN be a safe way to do it?
T. Bradley Dean
Re:It was intended that way on purpose (Score:1)
z
I'd like to see... (Score:2)
Obviously, there's lot of things that can be done. Perhaps a free-net situation where I have to fill out a form with a copy of my driver's license to an address and then I get my Radius username and password. Hello? Universities? Computer User Groups? I guess now is the time.
How's about all those nifty HAM operators who wanted to collectively put up repeaters? This could be cheaper.
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dallas area (Score:2)
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VeriSign ID through Microsoft wireless network (Score:3)
Re:Drive-By Spammings (Score:2)
(p.s. Hey Bill!)
Re:Should I open mine? VPN (Score:2)
Maybe. If you have a PC originated vpn (ipsec client) you shouldn't have trouble, because the other IPs won't ever get into it. If you have a hardware based vpn, on the other hand, just permitting/denying access by IP is probably dangerous, because the k14413$ would figure out what the other IPs on your subnet are and try them too.
Re:Sad Municipal Reaction (Score:2)
Re:Bruce Schnier Article About 802.11 Security (Score:3)
Umm, stealing? (Score:2)
There may be some that intend to let people share their bandwidth so they leave it open, but I'm sure that's not the case for most....
. . .
Already happenning (Score:2)
It's already started... [techweb.com]
heaps more to read over on google [google.com].
cheers, swgn
Say what? (Score:2)
Are you trying to imply that Mac users might not know what they are doing when it comes to wireless networking?
Shame on you!
Re:It was intended that way on purpose (Score:2)
Brought to you by the fine folks at the Department of Redundancy Dept.
People who deface the a publically editable website rank among people who snatch candy from babies, deface public property, destroy historic landmarks and take over channels on IRC.
Strange... I never considered "destroying historic landmarks" and "taking over channels on IRC" to be remotely the same thing.
Benefits of Public Wireless -in Chicago soon! (Score:3)
Stay tuned for free wireless coming to the Wicker Park area of Chicago around April 27th.
Also an "outernet" running on this network of webservers resolving the domain names of an artists choosing. Web artists get to be their very own mircosoft.com or ebay.com or whatever. If you have a site you'd like to submit to this outernet just drop me a line.
This is part of the Dept. of Space and Land Reclamation project
Check out deadtech.net [deadtech.net] and DSLR [www.counte...stries.com] for more info on this project
Just a thought on my part.. (Score:5)
Maskirovka
It was intended that way on purpose (Score:3)
Re:What about clogged bandwidth? (Score:2)
The only thing that suprises me is that all these new-found 802.11b users - who have become instant darlings of the press - have so little technical knowledge of how wireless networks work, and what it takes to set them up and make them as open, closed, or mixed as wanted. Buying an Airport does not a wireless guru make. Even Apple is a johnny come lately to this.
I just may set up here in Old Colorado City a 'free access' network alongside my wireless ISP network, just as 20 years ago I set up the first free 'Rogers Bar BBS' here so people could chit chat about local public issues - while I was still running the first subscription ISP service (UUCP!) in the same neighborhood. So learn your wireless onions. Being only 'free' or 'commercial' is a false dilemma. (I have so much excess bandwidth that wireless gives me, I can afford to give some away for 'community' purposes)
The ONE great value of wireless is that it bypasses the Evil Telephone Company local empire. THAT makes it worth it whether free-open, commercial ISP, or closed private! On that I think we can all agree.
Dave Hughes
Cursor Cowboy