Pentium 4 Requires New Case And Power Supply 320
An unnamed correspondent writes: "It turns out that, for the Pentium 4, we're all going to need to buy a new case and power supply. The standard heatsink will weigh 450g (about 1 pound) and will therefore need four supports below the CPU, supports that require a new motherboard tray. Also, the Pentium 4 will need a new power supply with a new four-connector plug. This means that, if you want a Pentium 4, your old case and power supply will have to go. :( SE has more on it in their IDF Report." A little like AT / ATX and all the cousins; it's not that surprising that something has to give, but a shame that some of today's very nice cases will have to be tossed or modified to fit the P4.
Re:That's horrible (Score:1)
- Spryguy
Do they plan on a mobile version??? (Score:1)
Both will add a manageable 20 pounds; however one will suck the battery dry in 4 minutes, the other could spill and crack your legs off like toothpics.
Re:No Biggie (Score:1)
1. They're making more processor power by just adding more electricity
2. All that extra electricity needed to run fans and such.
Still I guess that's what ya gotta do when AMD is beating you out.
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
<O
( \
X
Re:Who does this guy think he is??? (Score:1)
Don't get me wrong, I like the company, but there's a reason we talk about I86.
Leaders lead. Others follow.
What kind of insanity is this? (Score:2)
This situation sounds rather like a blast back into the past when a VAX 11/780 produced enough heat to keep your house warm.
And there are other perspectives from which it doesn't make sense, particularly the "IA-64" perspective. I thought that Intel was trying to start off a migration process to the New And Improved 64 bit IA-64 platform. Releasing Still More Pentiums doesn't seem terribly sensible.
On the other hand, people may react to this properly, thus:
and conclude that they should look to the "kinder, gentler, lighter-heat-sinked" IA-64 systems.Re:No Biggie (Score:1)
not so horrible (Score:1)
this may mean that the g4 heatsink is merely half as heavy as the pentium's instead of less than half as heavy like the other heatsinks they've seen...
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
new bus and all). Intel's socklet wasn't.
[0] Convenient general term for slot and socket, since they are often pin-for-pin compatable.
Shouldn't the story icon be the US dollar ? ;-) (Score:1)
Re:That's horrible (Score:1)
According to the article, the G4 heatsink is bigger.
Unless you meant iMac, or the fanless cubicmac. Mmmm. Fanless....
---
Unto the land of the dead shalt thou be sent at last.
Surely thou shalt repent of thy cunning.
Re:No Biggie (Score:5)
It has a 20 stage pipeline instead of 10 stage, a 400 MHz system bus instead of 133 Mhz, SSE2 with 144 new instructions, an "advanced transfer cache", and other changes.
There's an article describing some of the differences here. [theregister.co.uk]
On the other hand the PIII 1.13 GHz really is just an overclocked PIII 1 Ghz. That's probably the source of your confusion.
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:3)
What this new move shows is that Intel is growing increasingly desperate because they apparently can't seem to get the Itanium (or what's it called today) out fast enough and there's this little company called AMD whipping their ass by releasing overclocked versions of their *slightly* surperior design (Athlon). It also shows that Intel is afraid AMD will eat up their marketshare if they don't come up with some kludge to make it seem at least as if they're keeping up. A company more secure about its prospects would simply shrug and continue to work on their superior (maybe) next generation design. Witness how Microsoft has, for years, simply ignored the threat of Linux because they didn't *perceive* it as a threat. In the same way Intel used to ignore AMD back in the K6 days. Now that there's an Athlon, they start to resort to idiocy such as enforcing the special brew heatsinks made by OverClockers Inc. as a new *standard*.
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:1)
eudas
Think of the benefits... (Score:1)
Announcer: "Here at Intel we realize that laptop lefts are increasing, which is why we're doing our best to help reduce the thieves or make them easier to catch. How so? The answer is simple, weight. That's right weight. Take your normal laptop, easy to pick up, easy to run away with, why? Because it's too light. Now take this new laptop with Intel's new Pentium 4 Processor, it's heat sink alone weighs 1 pound, the processor itself is larger, as is the case (ok, I'm guessing at this one) all this extra weight means that to the average thief, your laptop is not as appealing as one with a processor by the 'other guys'. Not only that, any thief who does try to take your laptop will be burdened down with extra weight and will be less likely to run as fast as if you had another laptop. Intel, isn't your laptops safety worth a little more?"
*That Intel Sound*
Legal Sounding Announcer: "Intel makes no guarantees, implied or otherwise as to your laptop's safety."
-GreenHell
Re:No Biggie (Score:1)
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
Re:Long live standards-compliant commodity hardwar (Score:1)
Devalis
Sounds like a slot B Alpha (Score:1)
I find it ironic that Intel's are consuming more
power and more space as they increase in speed.
While Alphas on the otherhand are consuming less
power and getting smaller as they increse in speed. Anyone seeing a trend here?
I'd like to see one of these thing fit in a 1U rack and stay cool. Nevermind a merced.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
At the other end of the spectrum, we have Apple with its nice, cool, but still extremely powerful G4s. They may not be as powerful as the fastest x86 cpus, but mhz per mhz they are far superior, and are also cooler than the processors they approximately equal.
Re:Power Supply, et al (Score:1)
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
P4 is the same thing as Willamette. Itanium (aka Merced, aka ia64) is a totally different CPU.
How come they require such an enormous heatsink if they've revamped the engineering?
I think it's because it will be in the 1.5-2 GHz range. Note that power increases almost as the cube of the clock speed because at the same time, you increase the switching rate, the voltage (so you can switch faster) and the current. (that's also why Transmeta's CPU was so low-power when it ran at lower clock)
Re:No Biggie (Score:1)
Itanium will be the first processor to use the IA-64 architecture.
As for the heat issue, I don't know. I'm not a thermal engineer, nor do I want to be after that class I had to take.
Re:No Biggie (Score:1)
Doesn't it seem even a little suspisious to anyone that the form factor "has to" change again just as AMD starts making inroads into Intel's market?
And pardon me for raising my uneducated head, but why is Intel dictating what the form factor should be? Seems to me that should be done by something like the IEEE or somesuch. Please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't allowing ONE company the ability to arbitrarily (but its necessary for innovation... yeah, sure it is) change "industry standards" give it a slight competitive edge?
Who controls the ATX form factor specs anyways? Intel?
Sorry, I know its not the same, but this sort of smacks of the fiasco with Socket 7. Change to a slot design to break compatibility, then change back to a socket for performance... only now they're trying to do it with case form factors.
I know AMD can and will change/keep up, but this means that they have to do work which they wouldn't of had to do before - all because Intel decides to be sloppy with power consumption (I assume that the huge heat is generated by using huge power - makes sense anyways)
Just my $0.035
Neil.................
New hardware and Intel (Score:1)
Of course, it never happened....
Still smarting from ATX (Score:1)
What's really inadequate about AT form factor? The power connectors can take it and they can fit power supplies with the watts you need. Fans can be designed to blow air through them. There can be plenty of room for hard drives. Let's see, power, cooling space, what more does a mobo need?
What has ATX delivered? The connectors are turned 90 degrees. It's got some wake on LAN stuff that I'd rather do without, but that surely can be put into AT. It's got a new power connector, and I'm not sure what it does different. That X in the name is cool.
This is just going to make some more boxes into junk. I'll be happy to walk down to the computer store and buy your used ATX cases later, if people stop making AT mobos. Waste sucks.
I don't get it.
Athlon power supplies (Score:2)
By the end of the year AMD will have moved to their new Mustang "corvette" core which massively cuts power requirements and enables mobile athlons. This is what I'm waiting for to upgrade (Mustang/DDR) - not Intel's space heater P4!
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
Don't hold back, I'm dying to know how it turned out.
Re:No Biggie (Score:4)
Who are you to say that the processor has problems simply because it has a large heat sink? Do people question putting in side impact beams in cars? "There must be something wrong with the car if it needs side impact beams, the doors must be flimsy". Do people question the fact that in order to drive your old Pinto with it's brand new Ferarri engine installed, you will probably have to upgrade the tires to drive at full speed?
You and me may not agree with Intel's design philosophy, but that doesn't mean that they are manufacturing a faulty processor... it just means that their design goals do not include cheaper, more efficient, cooler, lower power consumption for their main stream processors. They want to make the fastest x86 chip possible and because of many reasons, the solutions they come up with to create newer and "better" chips are not exactly going to be elegant.
Re:Anti-theft measure (Score:3)
The case unit with 1 Hard disk drive installed weighs ~139 pounds. IBM does not recomend moving this unit without assitance to prevent injuries
That is theft deterence!
Global Warming (Score:2)
In a net interview with Andy Grove, chairman of Intel Corp. who is now living on a giant floating base above what was Los Angeles, he declared "We are pleased our new Pentium IV processor had the effect our PR staff predicted: DEVASTATING!". He also announced Intel was actively working on a new "hot" processor, but complained their research was "limited by the available energy available in our solar system". The interview was interrupted by a sudden power failure.
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
Two questions, though:
I'm really wondering now, ignorant shit that I turned out to be.
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price
Well, if Intel had pushed for onboard SCSI instead of going with IDE, maybe we could be using Ultra160 drives at the price of current IDE drives.
USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs.
The technology is OK, but the implementation sucks. Try distinguishing between two mice, two keyboards, or two of anything without unique IDs connected to USB.
USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees?
Stop repeating that bit of misinformation, OK? Licensing fees for Firewire (which are a puny $1 per machine) go to a non-profit consortium formed by companies using Firewire, of which Apple is only one. As for USB 2.0, come back when there's actually hardware available.
As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
I'm really not sure what you meant to say here.
They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
Re:What kind of insanity is this? (Score:2)
The Merced/Itanium architecture doesn't seem to help performance much. And it's incompatible. So it may just fade away, like Intel's last two tries at a new, incompatible instruction set, the i860 and i960. Even though UNIX workstations were built for those chips (by Data General, of all people), they never went anywhere. Even the Intel people I know don't think much of the Merced/Itanium architecture. It needs a compiler smarter than any compiler yet built to get halfway decent performance.
Actually, one of the neater CPU part ideas in a while was the 8 Alpha CPUs on a chip Compaq did experimentally. Single-chip multiprocessors are a good way to use all those transistors. I'd like to see that idea come back.
You can use these to track your kids' soccer games (Score:2)
Re:Still smarting from ATX (Score:2)
Re:Reeeeeaaaaallllyyy? (Score:3)
On the bright side, where else can you see such a collection of flamers and trolls every single day of the week, every hour of the day?
news:alt.revenge [alt.revenge]
For stupidity, histrionics, flames, trolls, and studied viciousness even SlashDot can't hold a candle to it.
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
Re:Excessive? (Score:2)
Note that the heat sink on the G4 is about the same size as the one on my Alpha 433 (which sucks down more juice than even the most power hungry Athlon)
Neither the alpha nor the G4 have an on heat-sink fan, but they both have carefully designed cases that channel the air that's blowing out the fan on the case right over the heatsink.
Not really defending Intel (if this rumor is true), but this pro G4 bullshit is getting pretty extreme. Its a pretty good chip, but its still too hungry for laptops. There is a very good reason the laptop I'm typing these words on has a 500Mhz G3 rather than a G4.
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
Re:Oh well (Score:5)
Like my monitor, I consider a high quality case to be an investment that will last through several CPU generations. Having to go buy a new one (If I weren't going to switch to AMD) would not kill me, but it is rather annoying.
Practice consumerism elsewhere (Score:2)
Reeeeeaaaaallllyyy? (Score:3)
I'm going to have nightmares of a midget being torn from a cylindrical, beeping robot, screaming about one pound heatsinks and producing robot offspring...
---
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
no intention of fulfilling, they release products that do not ship in sufficient quantities,
>>>>>>>
Exactly what "crappy" products has Intel released? As far as I can remember, the fastest chip on the block is still the PIII 1.13 GHz. At least according to SysMark2000 (a script of 8 common applications) and Quake. Check out the reviews of the 1.1GHz Athlon at www.sharkyextreme.com. What FUD filled road-maps? Sure Itanium has been delayed several times, but hell, all chip-makers have these problems. For example, AMD and it's long delayed K5.
they perpetuate old out-dated worthless technology
(x86, ISA, IDE, etc.),
>>>>>>
x86 chips are the price/performance leaders for most things. They tried to kill ISA two or three years ago, but consumers wouldn't let it die. Intel in no way pushes IDE that hard, I think the PC market in general does that. Show me an alternative! Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price (20GB for $150). Didn't think so.
and the new technology they do promote is almost always totally bass-ackwards, and designed primarily to either grab
more marketshare, or defend marketshare they have to the death, by any means other than what you'd logically think would be the BEST way to
get marketshare: make faster, more stable, more affordable chips than the competition. (USB, Slot1, AGP, etc.)
>>>>>>>>
As for pushing technologies to gain market share, that's what companies do, live with it. However, in recent memory, all of Intel's desicions have been pretty good. USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs. PCI was a whole lot better than VLB. USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees? As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP. Not all of us can afford 32MB cards, and for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend. Slot1 was a mistake. However, what was their alternative? They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time. AMD had to do it too. (BTW> Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.)
And most infuriatingly, the main reason Intel seems to succeed is because stupid people buy into their "Intel Inside" campaign, that a PIII makes
surfing the internet faster.
>>>>>>>
You can't judge a company on marketing speak. Let's see, the recent Suse Slashdot banner touts Suse 6.4 as the best OS ever. That's why Linux sucks! However, you can judge them by the fact that right now, the PIII is the fastest Quake chip.
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
9 months ago, I bought an AMD Athlon 650 for $500. Turns out it was faulty and the problem showed up worse as the weather got warmer. Past couple of months, the system wouldn't run for 15 minutes without serious instability. Processor guarantee was only 30 days so I decided to bite the bullet and get a new one. Well, I was going to upgrade to 700 or 750MHz while I was about it but AMD has discontinued *all* slot A processors. Bear in mind that I bought the 650 shortly after the 700Mhz was announced (I wanted to get a 700 but couldn't get my hands on one). I was facing having to splash out for a new motherboard as well as the processor less than a year after I'd bought the originals. In the end, the best I could get was another 650 and that was the only slot A processor the place had left.
Rich
Re:Oh well (Score:2)
*g* (Score:3)
I went from a 200mhz 604e with a HUGE HONKIN' HEATSINK (but it didn't need a fan on the heatsink) to a 300mhz G3 that gets easily twice as much done (easily verifiable on, say, renders in POV) and has a tiny purple heatsink the size of an ornate postage stamp. And still no CPU fan. :)
You are most breathtakingly wrong :)
Re:upgrade path? (Score:4)
Six years ago I invested in that 486 because Intel promised backward compatibility for future Pentium processors. They dropped the ball. The only upgrade then was a new motherboard, and my integrity in Intel was destroyed. That's 1/2 the reason I am leaving the Wintel platform.
I refuse to keep up with the Joneses by replacing my PC every 1.5 years; I got my own retirement to fund, not theirs. I can get at least ten years out of an automobile, and I expect to get that much out of my PC.
CPU replacements should be as simple as swapping a chip or subboard, but *don't* make me buy a complete new system. We've already got more than enough disposable non-bidegradable junk sitting in our landfills.
Re:Sledgehammer keeps looking more attractive... (Score:3)
Star Trek movies worked the same way, the odd numbered ones sucked.
A bit odd... (Score:2)
Only two itsy complaints: (1) why didn't Apple put more expansion bays in the PMac G4?, and (2) Why is it still 500 MHz? How do you go about overclocking the dang thing?
Anyone ever tried to get a G4 mobo in an ATX case? I'd take a drill and hacksaw to mine (even though it's a really nice case) if I could get a G4 to fit in, just for those extra bays. Anyway, wouldn't a beige ATX tower with a Mac inside look cool? How about funny?
Re:A case?! (Score:2)
I used to believe this but my CPU runs about 4C hotter with the case closed than open. And yes, I have installed an extra case fan. Rich
Re:That's horrible (Score:2)
Intel and the laptop designers had better watch out on this one...
After all, didn't that little old lady get millions when the McDonalds coffee scorched her lap?
Personal injury lawyers take heed!
Would this mean that the Intel Inside sticker would qualify as a warning?
MAB
Bad news, worse news... (Score:4)
Worse news: Here's [dailyradar.com] the new case design!
Intel's Control (Score:2)
---
Bigger, better (Score:2)
My old case is busting at the seams to hold all that pron, anyway.
No Biggie (Score:2)
As for the new power supplies, I actually prefer this arrangement to AMD's schtick with Athlons. Sure, it will take any old power supply, but it won't behave right for most of them.
New board, new cases, new RAM, new peripherals. It happens. It's expensive. Get over it. Do you really want old technology sticking around just because we're stubborn? (ISA, coff coff).
My mom is not a Karma whore!
Processor Cards (Score:2)
are easily upgradeable by installing a processor
card. This with even old machines (like PowerMac
6100's, can be found for under $50) to G3's -- despite some fairly serious motherboard differences.
I can't imagine that somebody wouldn't want to try this for PC processor upgrades. Could make a bundle (unless it cost more to do than buying a new motherboard and power supply).
The aging x86 (Score:2)
The Z80 is great and is still used for simple appliences (Remote controls use the Z8 but I'm not talking that simple.. the larg sat dish boxes use the Z80..I don't know what direct TV uses but I suspect something more powerful is used)
But the z80 wouldn't hold up well against a Pentium...
The pentium dosn't hold up well against the G4, AMD chips or the Sparc...
We allready went past RISC and entering Code morphing... More over X86 isn't even 1980s tech.. it's still very burnned in the 8 bit procesor design. The 680X and 6800X represent the 1980s technology and RISC 1990s...
Thankfully Intel has chips that do not have procesor structure dating back to the 4004...
But the Pentium 4 isn't it...
I'd expect a one pound heat sink on a 500 mzh Z80...
Try building a game console as powerful as the playstation with the same tech used to build the Channel F... Could it be done? Hack yeah...
And you'd have the worlds larggest building while you were art it...
Re:*g* (Score:2)
4 = 3.999...
multiply by 10
40 = 39.999...
subtract previous
40-4 = 39.999... - 3.999...
36 = 36
Tadaa!
Ryan
Quit complaining.. (Score:2)
Since their big customers are buying whole new systems anyway, it's no problem to specify a new case and PS design. Dell and Gateway will make a few changes that will be amortized to nothing over the 100,000 units they will build.
Well yah... (Score:2)
Sledgehammer keeps looking more attractive... (Score:2)
Is it me, or is Intel really trying to make things awkward with the Pentium IV? I can understand IA64 chips requiring a new case - they are meant for high end server applications anyway - but for a processor which is consumer/workstation level to require new cases and power supplies...
Of course it isn't that hard a requirement, it is just that these new cases will cost a lot initially because they will be an unusual shape. It might also take a while for the non-beige cases to appear as well.
Standards are good. AT, ATX, MicroATX etc. I am sure that this will be ATX+, or ATX2, or something.
It is also a bad reflection on the Pentium 4's power consumption - and Intel want to put this baby in laptops by the end of next year!
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
Perhaps when they no longer make revenues of more than $30 Billion [yahoo.com] a year...
We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success. How can we possibly know what is savvy or correct at that scale? I think I'll side with the expert considerations of the people that run such a monstrous company than the consummer-centric bashing this mob has to offer. Intel is perfectly aware of their competition.
:)Fudboy
Um... (Score:2)
*reread*
Oh- 'W2K'. My condolences. If you ever do actually get an iMac, rather than just making stuff up on slashdot, hope you figure out how to throw away 90% of the crud and cruft it ships with :)
*g* anecdotal evidence != 'open mind'. I hammer on my ol' upgraded 9500 day in day out for years on end and never need to take it anywhere to get it fixed. It's the most user-maintainable thing you could want, doesn't exhibit 'OS rot' like windows installations. Given initiative I could go find software to crash it and freeze it (hell, I use netscape every day, and that is the _king_ of non-deterministic crashability- months go by without a hitch and then WHAM WHAM WHAM *g*) but why should I, when I have tons of apps, including ones I can write myself, that don't crash?
*hee* some open mind there, fellow slashdot user #210999 ;) next you'll be saying that linux can't be used on the desktop ;)
The ATX 2.03 specification (Score:3)
Anti-theft measure (Score:4)
I'm certainly deterred by the P4, and I guess that's the real proof this is a Theft-Deterrent because according to the RIAA I'm a thief.
Steven
--
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
>>>
Intel wasn't the first company in the core logic chipset game. Nearly all of the early PC chipsets used IDE. It wasn't until much later that Intel started making chipsets, and at that point, IDE was already entrenched. You can't fault Intel for just doing like everybody else when they made their first chipsets.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
>>>
Those benchmarks are for cards like the Voodoo series (up to V5) that don't use AGP effectivly. I'm talking about REAL AGP cards.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
>>>>>>>
If you've only got 4MB of local graphics RAM, you're sure as hell going to see the difference between AGP and PCI. And that's not that uncommon. A lot of cheap comps come with only 4MB of memory but AGP 4x.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
>>>>>>>>
Read MaximumPC (or maybe boot's) interview with AMD's President. He specifically says that they have a cross-license agreement with Intel that would allow them to use Slot1, but used SlotA for the higher performance.
Re:No Biggie (Score:5)
Unlike ISA, current case designs, power supplies, etc. are adequate. Unlike ISA, better alternatives do not exist (e.g., PCI). If any processor needs the kind of power that only this new type of motherboard can accomidate, and then needs to radiate it away with a one pound(!) heatsink, the processor has problems, not the case/motherboard/power supply technology.
*g* (Score:2)
In the final analysis we can know what is savvy or correct at that scale much the same way we know what is savvy or correct at any scale- by looking at it and listening to people who know something about it. There are an awful lot of slashdotters with special knowledge on one thing or another, and many of them post. There are also a lot of slashdotters who say nonsensical things (like "All CPUs consume lots more power as they get more capable", which is not only contradicted by reality but obliterated by the nanotech concept for computations), and there's no label on them reading 'total fool, disregard'. You have to figure that out for yourself.
Personally, when I am confronted with a syllogism like "We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success.", I find it much easier to stick on the 'total fool, disregard' label. But it can be fun to explain _why_ such a judgement gets made. Someone might even learn something :)
Power Supply, et al (Score:2)
But seriously, why does Intel keep doing this. Obviously you cant just keep making the processor larger and larger, and give it more and more power, why dont they try and innovate a little, or a least if they do, tell us about it sometime. I haven't seem much of anything about the 'new' core they have on this thing.
All they are right now are professional overclockers, and they suck at it too.
Re:Oh well (Score:2)
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
Heh... so all I have to do is buy an Athlon, eh?
Last I checked, I had to throw out my AMD K6II and my 256MB of RAM and my mobo to upgrade. So what if I have to toss my $65 case and power supply, too? As long as there's enough competition, the new ones shouldn't cost much more.
What Justifies _Special_ Cooling at Intel? (Score:2)
Albert Yu was asked if he could give a rough idea of when a 2GHz Pentium might ship. Although his response was "I have no idea", Barrett intervened to say that he wasn't at liberty to divulge it. However, Barrett added that the demo used no special cooling. The part was air-cooled.
A 450g heatsink requiring a new case isn't special???? What next?
SANTA CLARA (AFU-NEWS) Today silicon circuit behemoth Intel demoed the Pentium 4 CPU clocked at 2.5GHz The presence of an anchor from the Queen Mary bolted to the top of the CPU was described by Albert Yu, Senior Intel VP, as "normal cooling." Versions of the CPU running at lower clock speeds could be cooled by bolting them to anvils, manhole covers and recycled steel plates from the heads of Intel marketing folks. "A special cabinet may be required," he added.
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
consequences (Score:2)
We saw the same phenomenon when Microsoft announced Windows95 without delivering it, hence slowing down the sales of people like Norton or whoever else having the 95 version of their products ready but without the possibility of selling neither W95 nor W3x versions as the market was congested by a constipated giant.
Now, you didn't tell us about the RAM but I also think the standard will, once again change here and only big OEMs (Dell, Compaq, etc.) will win while small OEMs might have much more problems with their existing stock which price they have to cut even shorter.
--
upgrade path? (Score:4)
meanwhile, back in sunnyvale, amd offers smaller, faster, better cpus which actually provide an upgrade path for existing customers.
it seems like intel just keeps getting more and more introverted. when will they find a clue?
perhaps once the low-end celeron-style p4s come out, they will have some sort of upgrade path...
--
Patents? (Score:2)
Another thing-- Unless they change where the IO block is (where the keyboard, serial, and mouse connectors are), perhaps you could drop it in an ATX case and build your own heat sink? Or will Intel indeed change the very form factor to keep us from doing this?
Re:upgrade path? (Score:2)
Or more acurately, you are ignorant. Check out the AMD website. You'll see that the 3 year warranty is for boxed processors from them, the 1 year warranty is for unboxed processors from them and that they don't warranty chips provdided by vendors (OEM). From the website:
All warranty requests on microprocessors NOT purchased directly from AMD should not be directed to AMD, but should instead be presented to your point of purchase.
My receipt for it says a 30 day warranty. I should have checked but in the UK, most stuff is guaranteed a one year warranty by our consumer protecion laws. In defence, I'd just done a 8 hour drive from Florida leaving at 4am
In any case, the new CPU was 140UKP, not $500 and the inconvenience of not having a computer to use while it was shipped back to AMD would have outweighed that. But my original complaint was about the premature obsolescence of the slot-A processors, *not* AMD's return policy.
Now where I was stupid was buying a CPU from a stall at a computer fair that was in an open anti-static bag with a fan already attached (I didn't know that Athlons didn't come with them already). I suspect now (but have no proof) that it had already been returned as faulty. In case anyone's interested, that company was ATD Inc, now trading as Ameritech.
Darwin in action I guess. I can't think of any other explanation.
Well, I have one offspring already. I guess it just remains to be seen whether buying a CPU for 140UKP has made me infertile in some weird way. Or perhaps it's about time you asked your mummy how babies are made.
Rich
What is that strange sound??? (Score:2)
By any chance does this new case generate its own power aswell? Do I just have to replace a rat and or a wheel every six months to run my system?
Funny in one way, but... (Score:2)
Clothes Dryers
Hot Water Heaters
Dish Washers
Air Conditioners
As well as the plethora of other small appliances coming out. Houses simply weren't wired to take the load.
However, I am sure before we see the need for such drastic measures for a computer, we will have a public outcry for better, more efficient software...
I support the EFF [eff.org] - do you?
If this is needed, it's worrisome. (Score:3)
Intel is releasing a chip that will require modifications to ATX.
Therefore, it would be worthwhile to assume this chip will consume over 100 watts.
Built-in crane (Score:2)
BTW, S300 (Russian SA missile launcher system) control center contains built-in crane for moving one of the blocks. (Hope I would not be sued for this... Well, karma is more important.)
---
Every secretary using MSWord wastes enough resources
A case?! (Score:2)
Merriam-Webster defines a case as:
1 a : a box or receptacle for holding something b : a box together with its contents
2 a : an outer covering or housing
My "case" covers nothing and only serves as a receptacle for dust! It sits wide open with various parts hanging out of it at any given time. Why is this P4 going to change anything?
If my new heatsink needs support, I'll buy it a bra with underwire......
Umm hello? (Score:2)
Well.. I guess that's progress...
Geez, what up? (Score:3)
Fitness ploy (Score:2)
On the other hand, I guess you could toss out the fireplace and just roast marshmallows by the warmth of your computer.
(singing) Chestnuts roasting on an open case...
Ouch (Score:2)
The scariest thing is that these P4 chips aren't going to be any faster, clock for clock, than Athlons (again, assuming that articles I've seen around are reasonably reliable). Why can't Intel manage to come up with something like that? Why do they have to keep on using a brute force solution (More clock speed! And damn the torpedoes(sp?)) to something that AMD seems to have found a relatively elegant solution to?
Argh . . . Just one more reason to lose respect for those suckas . . .
himi
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Re:Processor Cards for the PC (Score:2)
Someone already has.
Evergreen Technologies has the Accelera PCI [evertech.com] which takes a Celeron CPU and a PC100 SODIMM on a PCI card. However, this doesn't yield as much gain as the apple upgrades, since PCI wasn't built with the bandwidth necessary to support an extra CPU.
bye bye, laptop market (Score:2)
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
Not quite: the only reason P4's need that enormous heatsink is because it's a P3 overclocked to kingdom come, and therefore running much hotter than it should.
I heard Intel has been putting the following ads out prior to the release of the P4:
Are you an avid overclocker? Did you manage to make your Celeron 333 run at 750 by suspending it in a barrel of liquid nitrogen? Then come work for Intel and turn your hobby into a living!
Intel: show us how it's done.
There are other choices .... (Score:2)
Ok, if you're unhappy about Intel why sit there and whine about it? Do something that will make Intel think twice about pulling dumb shit like this. BUY A COMPETING CHIP! I know it's crazy but
Disclaimer: I run and AMD Athalon 800 / Soyo SY-K7VIA / Geforce256 / SB Live rock solid under both SuSE 6.3 and Win98SE. So I may be a bit biased
Re:Ouch (Score:2)
I would honestly love to read something that will counter this, because I don't much trust Intel anymore. But if they can make a faster processor than AMD that is cost effective, go Intel. So where did you read this?
The Solution! (Score:2)
1. 1 Dremmel Mototool
2. 1 Can Premium Lager (For after)
3. 1xHot Glue Gun
4. 2xWine Cork (cut in half)
Instructions:
Preparation
Using the Dremmel, remove any pieces of steel from your existing ATX case that may be blocking your shiny new P4 mainboard. Loosly mount the board in your ATXcase, and mark the screw holes. Using the Dremmel again, drill out the neccessary holes. Roughly mark the area BELOW the processor. Using the Hot Glue Gun, mount the cork halves on the marked area under the processor. (some shaving may be required)
Installation
Re-mount the main board, processor and RAM in the ATX case, and secure with screws (Be sure the cork is not too high, hairline fractures are a bad thing)
Drink the can of Lager while booting up your new P4 in an ATX Case!
Note: You will still need to buy a new power supply (More on how to rig the old one in my next post)
no worries (Score:2)
on a side note the P4 is going to be aircooled just like all chips are (as manufactured) Why don't AMD or Intel just do what we'll do to the chips when we get them from the git go. Water cool them or super air cool them or use some kind of advanced peltier system? Anything to show that they are thinking ahead. I'd be more willing to accept water in my PC than a 1 pound heatsink.
Not true. (Score:2)
I know this because in 1980 I was tutoring a EE and Chem double major, who told me that she had a friend using it to remove caffeine from coffee.
Here is some links:
CO2 Decaf Sin! [frontiercoop.com] Do you drink too much coffee? [sorehands.com]
Co2 in paintball [docsmachine.com]
Re:No Biggie (Score:2)
They may have revamped the engineering, but they haven't revamped the engineers.
The physics of higher clock speeds aside, this is a team that has inhereted design methodologies from the 8086. If you are using a team of engineers who worked on the earlier Intel and/or were trained by them, chances are that they'll be used to the same power-hungry tactics employed in previous chips. It looks to me like many of the improvements are 'more-bigger'. The obvious implication is that power supplies and heatsinks are going to be more-bigger too.
Compared to Intel, Transmetta brought in a relatively young team and re-designed from scratch. This cleaner design allowed them to build for the low-power market more easily because they didn't have the old baggage that Intel's teams do.
Intel -- Just short of Intelligent.
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
FUD to survive against competitor Intel's FUD. That doesn't make it alright either. I
know it interferes with the magical "free market", and the invisible hand-job and all,
but it would be nice if *someone* would take these companies to task for false
advertising when they FUD.
>>>>>>>>
There is FUD and market speak. FUD is outright lies. Market speak is streching of the truth. Intel saying the PIII makes the Internet faster is market speak. It DOES make your browser run impreceptibly faster and it helps a little on media rich and 3D rich websites (of which there are about 2.) The only people for whom market speak should matter are those too stupid to see through it. Believe it or not, the US economy thrives on taking advantage of those too stupid to do their own research. It happens with american cars, iMacs, graphics cards (wonder why ATI is on so many computers?) insurance, houses, sneakers, socks, abso-fucking-lutely everything.
Intel pushes IDE because IDE relies on CPU horsepower to initiate transfers. SCSI
relies on the controller. Therefore, if HD access takes CPU cycles, this increases the
demand (in a bogus way) for faster CPUs. Bottom line for Intel; slower and ultimately
costlier machines for consumers. Same principle works with Winmodems, and USB
too, if I'm not mistaken.
>>>>>>>>>>>
That's absoultely untrue. Under UltraDMA, one or two drives have no more CPU usage than on SCSI. Your comment was true back in the days of PIO, but not anymore. The only place SCSI helps these days is if you need the raw I/O rate, need absolute reliability, need access the the generally faster SCSI drives, or have more than two drives in you computer. Winmodems don't only exist because of Intel. In an age of $300 computers and low double digit profit margins, the $15 or so a winmodem saves means a lot more money for the manufacturer. Also, Winmodems were created when the cheapest "real" modems you could get were nearly $100. The whole point, though is moot. Intel doesn't really do anything to push Winmodems. As far as I can tell, 3Com (USRobotics) was the one the entrenched Winmodems.
I do agree that PCI was a good spec. So why did they abandon it for AGP?
>>>>>>
They didn't abandon it for AGP. As far as I can see, AGP is only a graphics standard.
If you read
Intel's press releases (and it sounds like you do, on Sunday morning, in front of an
altar, accompanied by organ music), it's to reduce the need for VRAM on the card,
but the REAL reason was so they could corner the market on graphics chips.
>>>>>>>>>>>
The VRAM issue was quite big. Hindsight is 20/20, but as I remember it, when AGP came out, the best 3D cards had 4MB of RAM (Riva128 and ATI Rage Pro). It was before the big memory price bust, and it seemed that cards could continue to use expensive SGRAM. Who the hell would have thought that in two years graphics cards would come standard with 32MB of 150MHz DDR-SDRAM? Back then (actually 6 months after AGP was introduced and years after they thought to make it) the state of the art was the V2 and it's massive 8MB (out of 12) of 100MHz texture memory. If the pace of 3D was the same from V2->Present as it was from V1->V2, then my RivaTNT 16MB would be the state of the art. However, NVIDIA totally blew apart the 3D market with it's 6month cycle. Nobody expected 3D to come this far this fast. No me, not you, not Intel.
Why
did they fail? Because their chips SUCK. They had decent competition.
>>>>>>
Actually, the i740 was pretty good. Short-lived, but pretty good. However, you're probably mistaken on Intel's intentions to corner the 3D market. If that's what they were after, they wouldn't have quite so quickly. (Do you really think Intel couldn't design a better graphics chip? Especially with Real3D's help?) My guess is that Intel was trying to make inroads into the sub-$1000 PC market with a cheap, system-memory based graphics card. At that time, AMD and Cyrix were making big strides there and it was really exploding.
And
nowadays, I challenge you to even FIND an AGP card with 4mb of VRAM. Or less than 16.
>>>>
Take a look at the advertisements for Microcenter (or CompUSA, or whatever. (A major retailer in Virginia.) All the cheap sub-$700 PCs have i740-based card with "4MB display cache."
And finally, about the AMD statement about using Slot A for higher performance,
that may be the public statement, but in Private, you can bet your loose and hairy
sphincter that the reason was so they didn't have to pay their main competitor
MORE license fees, and take it up the ass when Intel decided to change the spec
again (Slot 2, Socket 370, etc. ad infinutum, ad nauseum, ad analintrusiun), but they
took it up the ass anyway when Intel told the mobo manufacturers; "nice license you
got there, it'd be a *shame* if something were to happen to it!"
>>>>>>>>
According to AMD, they had a "blanket-cross license with Intel for all it's patents." (AMD's Presidents quote) Methinks they used SlotA more to cuddle up with Digital.
Laptops (Score:2)
\//
Re:Geez, what up? (Score:2)
but wait, amd's k7 doesn't need this (Score:3)
sure, the k7 generates lots of heat; but its on socket-A (no special motherboard support needed) and while the power supply is MORE crucial for the k7 than the p3, you can easily find a compatible/recommended PS for your athlon.
intel seems to intiquate things WAY too soon for my liking. just another nail on the coffin for them...
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And Then It Hits You (Score:2)
(get those chips out here dammit)