Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter


Forgot your password?

Australian National InstallFest Season 48

CarrotLord writes: "Australian LUGs are teaming up to present the Australian National InstallFest Season 2000. It started with Adelaide planning for July 15th, spread to Sydney, and now Perth. Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne, Newcastle and other regional centres will be joining up shortly. See the National site, and the LinuxSA (Adelaide) site for details. Also see the writeup in LinuxWorld Australia."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Australian National InstallFest Season

Comments Filter:
  • lol.

    I've got two comments for you here. Correct the bullets if you must.

    • Had you actually bothered to re-read my comment, you would have realized that you horked the grammar correction, rendering the comment partially useless.

    • The only thing worse than poor grammar is an unsupported opinion. I'm glad that you disagree with my post. It is, however, unfortunate that you are apparently unable to enlighten the slashdot-reading public as to why.

    That, dear sir, makes your post a troll.

    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • I sent this to rob, but I'm posting it here to see what you slashdot readers think:

    I'm sure you know of all this autoposting nastyness going on with slashdot. I'm wondering if you've had any ideas on how to combat these auto-posters. Some slashdot readers have recomended letting the users specify regexes to filter out posts, which seems like a good idea, but would put an incredible amount of stress on your servers for sure. The answer isn't just "increase your threshold", I used to browse at 0 so I'd get most good posts and the occasional Posted-as-AC-because-of-company-policy which wouldn't score above zero, now I'm browsing at 1, and since *syringe is making new user names, he's auto-posting at 1 until he gets modded down enough. The real problem may be a lack of mod points, with auto posts, the trolls/spammers can get posts out quicker than they are modded. Also, consider what would happen if they were to write a script which not only would post crap, but would also make new accounts every 10 posts or so. I think a while back, someone had the idea of "make an english question that must be answered before posting such as 'three plus 2=?' " so that autoposters wouldn't be able to post.

    (Posted w/o +1 bonus to avoid karma lossage)

  • by Garak ( 100517 ) <chris.insec@ca> on Tuesday July 04, 2000 @05:53PM (#958014) Homepage Journal
    You call systems that crash every second day easy to use.
    Windows isn't the easyest to use in the class room enviroment because it lacks true muti user support. I'm not talking about the ablity for a few people to use a computer at the same time I mean the ablity of a user to have there own settings and files that the next person who uses the computer can't mess with.
    The big thing stoping linux in the class room is the teachers they are not very quick to catch on to new software. My teacher who taught me how to do techincal drawings couldn't use the software because I moved one of the tool bars. He would have to do the compleat course over again if the software changes the slightest. And that is why were still using an old buggy version of auto sketch and windows 95.
    From a UI point of view linux is the same as windows and is more configureable. In schools you don't need huge menu's of programs like you see under the start button in windows or linux, you only need 10-20 buttons or icons on the screen.
    A Linux bases system would be alot easyer to adminster than a windows based system. Once the boxes are configured and software installed the box shouldn't need to be touched. Right now at school every other day I see one of the computers geting windows re installed because some student has guessed the password to fortress, a program that keeps students from changeing setting and stuff, or some program has destroyed the system, viruses, or because some program was running really slow.
    Linux is the best thing for the class room. In the schools the computers threw out the day have 7 or more diffrent people using it and each of them want to have there own settings and stuff.
  • Hey there,

    I'm one of the organisers of IF2K (InstallFest 2000), and I really like your idea. Perhaps we'll hand out copies of the One Page Linux Manual [] at all the fests...

    Thanks heaps!
  • hmmm, one of us is missing the point (could be me)

    From my (little :) experience, the real value in an install fest is that the juniors (god luv 'em) among us can have a) exposure to things like bootp/dhcp servers & other distros (and OS's for that matter) that they would not normally have access to; and b) exposure to more experienced guys that can help 'em with the tricky things ...

    Otherwise, there is useually alot of a)beer, b) Hardware & c) nerds in one place at one time. Sounds like fun to me :)
  • The problem is that everything on Slashdot has to happen server-side. This means that you can't format things the way you want, you can't filter out the things you want, and you basically have no freedom at all. As long as Slashdot requires money to run, it's going to suck ass.
  • Dear sir, madam, or Anonymous Coward

    You have violated my Golden Ule by including the lette 'R', also known as the devil's lette, in you post. Fo you convenience, a coected vesion of you post appeas below:

    I think that one of the keys in this fight (if you want to call it that) is to get kids using linux. Get people familia. I believe that to be one of the big easons which Macinstosh computes efuse to die - is because many kids ae using them. Pehaps we need to have install festivals in schools to pomote linux classes in addition to all those typing and CS classes that high-schools aleady offe.

    Does anyone know of a school who's major OS is linux? That eally ought to change. These install fests do help, but only to people who would have conveted soone or later anyway. Let's get kids inteested in linux, show them the games they can play, and show the geek-oiented kids how cool it is to hack source.

    It's easier to get someone to ty linux after they've had at some exposue to it. Eveything else is the same.

    Gramma Nazi's opinion:

    I don't agee with this post. I ealize that some of my gramma coections slightly changed the meanings, but the point is still there. Please, fluxad, do try to proofead your comments in the futue

    Thank you fo you coopeation.

    Yu Suzuki

  • by fudboy ( 199618 ) on Tuesday July 04, 2000 @07:13PM (#958019) Homepage Journal
    I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I feel compelled to voice it anyway.

    I think this whole idea is a waste of effort. Linux is nowhere near ready for consumers, and any time spent trying to squeeze them into it is no good. Instead, these folks should focus on a chunk of source and help develop this sucka.

    There isn't any reason linux can't be made to satisfy both the 133t hax0rs and grandma...

    That being said, why not develop this beast to a point where it can be adopted by the standard consumer directly, instead of this 'chicken with its head cut off' approach to getting it out there? We've got people coding wildly on every aspect, marketting/hyping it until we are blue in the face, mocking newbies and flaming windows users, now we even have a variation of the 'boat show' - but no real effort towards making this software usable.

    Remember, just because you understand linux inside and out doesn't mean consumers, grandmas, normal business folk, and anyone else isolated from 133t circles understands even basic concepts you take for granted.

    I urge everyone to focus on usability, UI shell consistency and a truly stupid learning curve. like windows you say? like any OS that has consumer acceptance going for it. Sadly this only includes windoze and macOS. BeOS doesn't even cut the mustard, with its unixy file sytem layout. my girlfriend still can't get around in BeOS, surely that's the ultimate test, right?

    There are no windows 'install fests'... There doesn't need to be. My very own mother reformatted and re-instaleld windows last night. I had to talk her through it a little bit, but she got it most of the way. I doubt she could set up X or even vaguely deal at root level, much less installation. It doesn't have to be this way!!!

  • A lot of good ideas for this are impractical because of server load, and the logistics involved with tinkering with slashdot too much.

    I wonder if a client side filter might be appropriate? If you have sufficient bandwidth to download the autoposts, and enough cycles to burn, a little extra javascript could conditionally block posts.

    The simplest way to start would be to implement a kill-list for certain users. Won't help the AC posts, but that's okay if you don't mind browsing at +1 (which doesn't sit that well with me.)

    Maybe a more advanced model would be third-party moderation. Submit the useless cids to a repository, and filter based on that. It seems that a one-size fits all ./ ends up fitting nobody.

    Of course, a 3rd party mod system could filter for you, but if its done client side, it might not be as legally prickly.

    Just some thoughts.


    .sig free for 6 months!

  • ... aren't working right now, I'm going to suggest that the systems administrators from the School of Computing [] at Curtin University [] go along and learn how to install Redhat properly.

    Curtin Uni is literally across the road from Canning College (location of the Perth installfest), so I'm sure that for the lack of trouble it would put them through the student body would benefit.

  • The hard part is throwing away the Australian edition of MS-Windows. The bloody things go up, go down, and come back for no apparent reason.
  • The source code for the troll is probably Slashtroll [] which I noticed being spammed to some threads today. Your idea has merit, especially if the questions are generated newly each day (preferrably each hour) so that the script doesn't build a database of answers.

  • No... you don't get it... the point of an installfest is to install Linux on people's computers... There is no competition to see who can do it fastest, or who can do the most... it's just a really good way to introduce people to Linux.
  • I try to explain linux to people using their understanding of DOS. An older non-technical person at work was aghast once when he saw me editing html using a text editor. "What is all that gobbledy-gook?", I think he said. I tried to explain that it's no more complicated than using Wordperfect 5.1, which I know he could use once. Needless to say, he was frightened, and that was just from looking at html.

    I think with the improvement of graphics, people have gotten away from how computers work. I also think that it's numbed people's brains. I grew up with Atari, and the first computer I used was a TRS-80 at school, and a friend's Commodore 64. I was always curious about how things worked, and so I took an after-school class in BASIC programming for the TRS-80. I think I was maybe 11 or 12. Anyway, with minimal programming knowledge, I was actually able to hack some of the games like Math-blaster, or whatever it was called, when they crashed. My friend, who had more time to work with his Commodore, was able to program a simple game, which today I would see as trivial, but at the time it wasn't that far removed from the Atari games we played.

    I guess my childhood exposure to computers was like the exposure to how cars work that some kids had in the 50's and 60's, when engines were simple enough that you could easily take them apart and fix or upgrade them. Today, you can't replace the carburetor (doesn't have one) or hack the ignition timing on your Toyota Camry. Likewise, you can't program a game that comes anywhere close to the ones you might buy, unless you're an experienced programmer. The result seems to be that kids just don't bother trying either endeavor, at least not as many as once did.

    One of my heroes as a child was Matthew Broderick's character in WarGames. It would be cool if there were a movie like that today for this generation of kids.

    The only good thing kids have today that I really wish I had (besides the web, I guess) is Lego Mindstorms.

  • You call systems that crash every second day easy to use.

    Support this statement, please. My experience with Windows (specifically Windows NT 4/2000) dictates otherwise.

    Windows isn't the easyest to use in the class room enviroment because it lacks true muti user support. I'm not talking about the ablity for a few people to use a computer at the same time I mean the ablity of a user to have there own settings and files that the next person who uses the computer can't mess with.

    For most school environments, I expect that NT/2000's multi-user support is more than sufficient. What, you didn't think I was talking about Windows 9x, did you?

    From a UI point of view linux is the same as windows and is more configureable. In schools you don't need huge menu's of programs like you see under the start button in windows or linux, you only need 10-20 buttons or icons on the screen.

    No, I've seen what 10-20 buttons on the desktop look like and it's an interface nightmare. A reasonably organized Start menu is, in my opinion, vastly easier to use.

    Right now at school every other day I see one of the computers geting windows re installed because some student has guessed the password to fortress, a program that keeps students from changeing setting and stuff, or some program has destroyed the system, viruses, or because some program was running really slow.

    This sounds more like a problem with the additional software installed than a problem with Windows. Besides, if you're going to run Windows, shouldn't y'all be running NT/2000? I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but I believe it would be better suited to the task than Windows 9x.

    Hey, this isn't a flame, and I'm not trying to be a Windows 2000 smart-ass (whatever the hell that is). But it really is a pretty solid operating system, and one that is definitely on par with Linux in an academic/public computing environment. Don't be so quick to dismiss it just because Windows 9x sucks in many, many respects.
  • Have it around the time school starts. Lots of college kids with new computers dying to try linux
  • There aren't any Windows InstallFests because consumers aren't given the option. It's there already. A Linux InstallFest is fun, because you're showing something new and better to people who, perhaps, never even knew it existed.

    Whilst we've been organising it, there's been a joke running around that we shouldn't call it an InstallFest, we should call it a SubvertTheDominantParadigmFest - because we're doing more than just "installing Linux".

    If you don't get the word out, and get people interested, you may as well be scratching your navel coding for it. :)
  • Don't allow a post to be posted when it matches an existing post. (Check for matches in a 1-way hash-value first. Otherwise the effort of this matching will be too hard on the database.)

    This reduces the problem.

    Then put in a scan for "known signatures" of specific spammers. (For instance that mug of beer.) To find those add a "spam" option for moderators. If a user starts being moded for spam, investigate the pattern...

    Imperfect, but it would really help.

  • Dude, you can never seem to get that right. You missed tons of "r's". Look: just copy the text you're going to post into your text editor of choice and do a "find" for all the "r's"!! It's obvious you have a lot of time on your hands, so why not spend an extra thirty seconds and troll with excellence?

    Regexp makes it even easier. s/[Rr]//g; Then just type in the one "R" that you use at the beginning to refer to itself. Bada bing -- all done!

    Yes, I'm feeding a troll. Yes, you may intentionally skip some "r's" to get people like me to respond. Oh well.


  • This sounds like a good idea, but keep in mind that schools (at least state schools) are typically tied to state-approved vendors. Many times a school is limited to certain hardware and software configurations, based their state's "vendor 'O the day". Things get worse when you consider that many of those vendors are Microsoft Certified Solution Providers...

    Also, unless your in a univeristy environment, I would suspect most teachers/faculty would favor a Windows desktop, simply because they want it to run all of their software. What good is that damn Linux machine if it can't run Stickybear Typing and Reader Rabbit? ;)

    Still, I can remember a time when a PC in a school was unheard of: Mac's ruled the day. So maybe it's not impossible...

    Son: Daddy, Daddy! We installed Red Hat 9.1 in class today! It would have worked the first time, too, except that dumb old Billy Johnson can't even recompile the kernel right!
    Father: Red Hat? Is that by Dr. Suess or something?
  • Where do you think software improvements come from, if not user feedback? Make product. Get it "out there". Get feedback ("hard to use", etc). Improve product. Iterate. Installfests are step 2.

    In any case, I don't believe in building the system down to the user. I believe in building the system down to a "reasonable level" and the educating the user up to that same level.
  • Windows NT/2000 is better than 9x, but it's still unstable compared to Linux. It's also more expensive, which is a concern for budget-strapped schools. In order to implement an effective NT/2000 solution, they would need to have a few computers running NT/2000 server, which probably costs more than the computers that schools buy. Many schools can't afford to buy computers, so they get donated hardware, which means slower than Pentium-150, 32MB RAM or less. Even if Microsoft donated the software, most of the hardware wouldn't be up to the task.

    I don't know for sure, but I'd guess the computers that Bill Gates famously donated for schools and libraries came with Win9x, not NT. Anyone out there know for sure?

    Linux would be a far better solution, because it is more flexible, stable, secure, etc. than NT/2000. And it will run on that crappy old hardware that many schools are stuck with. It would really be a great thing to organize an install-fest for public schools.

    On a related note, if anti-abortion activists can make the argument that they don't want their tax dollars to fund abortions, I would like to make the argument that I don't want my tax dollars to fund the purchasing of Microsoft software.

  • Maybe if you'd installed Linux for her, instead of aiding and abetting the enemy, she'd never need to re-format or re-install again. As it stands, she'll probably need your assistance again in about six months.

    Maybe Red Hat or Corel should launch a new campaign. Something like, "the next time you have to re-install Windows, try Linux"

  • My experience with Windows (specifically Windows NT 4/2000) dictates otherwise.

    At our high school, we use an NT4 server running WinProxy (blech!). I can't say the machine crashes frequently (ie, requiring reboot), but that damn Proxy is unpredictable, not to mention braindead. There are also other administration issues that are questionable in a production environment, such as the daily backup procedure our Sysadmin has scheduled which renders the Network printers unusable, inability to log on the network, etc,etc. This may be happening when school is out for the day, but I (being a teacher) may be in the building 8,9,or 10 pm any given evening, trying to do some prep work, unable to use the computer!

    On top of that, when the server seems to be acting reasonably well, everyone (including the sysadmin) is afraid to even touch the machine, or else it mat start acting funny. Does this sound like a machine one could really depend on?

    For most school environments, I expect that NT/2000's multi-user support is more than sufficient. What, you didn't think I was talking about Windows 9x, did you?

    You are quite right about about NT/2000 being more than sufficient. But not in the pure technical sense. Do you really believe a school full of P150's (or less) with 16MB of RAM (32 if you're lucky) is going to be able to run W2000? Forget the licencing fees (which are also prohibative) -- those machines will be soooo slow that half of the class will be waiting for the computer to boot/start Office/etc.....

    This sounds more like a problem with the additional software installed than a problem with Windows. Besides, if you're going to run Windows, shouldn't y'all be running NT/2000? I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but I believe it would be better suited to the task than Windows 9x.

    Software (apps) may be buggy, but this should not bring entire computers (or networks even) to it's knees. When an application fails, only it should bomb, not the entire OS and HD data. A buggy app that doesn't work is the app designer's fault. A buggy app that brings down the OS is (in this case) Microsoft's fault.

    In my (admittedly limited) experience with computers in schools, 95/98 workstations are misfits that require constant fixing, disinfecting, reconfiguration. In fact, I've postulated that the admin work for Windows machines is close to a linear function for any sufficiently large institute -- requiring roughly one full time position for every 40 to 50 machines. A UNIX environment needs a good qualified sysadmin to get things up and running, but the addition of terminals or workstations is close to trivial. The admin work as a function of # of workstations is much closer to a log function.

    And again, I won't even discuss the price issue (Linux workstation == free; W98 workstation =~$150; NT workstation == several hundred $)
    You're still using Windows?

  • My name is Brad. My nick is a.out. (Just for you information) Signing a post with "/Brad" is a quick way of saying "end post: Brad". :-)

    Walking up to someone and telling them "Man you are a ugly" and thinking it are two seperate things. One of which is socially acceptable, or polite, the other of which is not. On the same hand one of the corrections you made on my post was polite, where you pointed out that you did not understand my sentence, while the obvious typo was not. That was what I considered a flame or a troll. One could mistake your good intentions for a public mockery.

    I hope I have cleared up my thoughts for you. I will be more carefull in the future with my grammar and spelling in public forums.
  • Linux is cheap, full price for a distro (some sort of paper howto included) is less than half that of Windows without any paper docs (and most of the time, when checking out a new distro, or upgrading an older version, it's free or nearly so).
    Linux's need is for developers, not customers. At this point, Linux doesn't need users. They're certainly welcome, Grandma is welcome to use Linux, but this is where Grandma learns some new tricks (actually, most of the elders I see want to learn new tricks, if nothing else, to prove they still can).
    It may not yet be easy to use, but it is getting easier. That might well be why Linux gets new developers, because so often people want it right, and can learn to make it right. For free.
    Oh, and it's stable. (Lots of people already wanted to make it right).
    Ironic thing, last April I managed to gain (with timely support from people from Eugene Free Net) representation for the Eugene Unix and GNU/Linux User Group (EUGLUG) at the Oregon Country Fair, a leftover hippy festival. Now, given that Linux was developed by Barefoot Hippy Communists, the most amusing part of this was defending the idea of Linux advocates handing out Linux CD-ROM's to (literally, in some cases, in April, in Oregon) barefoot hippies, some of whom proudly call themselves communist except when they're anarchist, or Republican, or Green, or Wiccan, or Idiosyncratic (my apologies to any overlooked viewpoints). Most of these (often loudly self-proclaimed) hippies are used to Microsoft and Apple (If Linux is a hippy/commie/name-your-own-subversive-conspiracy, why don't the assorted hippy or commie conspirators know of it?).
    It seems there's a pronounced anti-corporate bias among the Fair Folk. As soon as it became clear that Linux is not a corporation, that indeed, Linux is out of corporate control, and moreover Linux is built on the idea that what software runs your hardware should be yours, not some damned corporation's, (and we wouldn't want purloined software, now would we?) we were in.
    So if you find your way to the 31st Oregon Country Fair (July 7,8,9, along the Long Tom in Veneta, Oregon) you may find, among the music and crafters' booths, in the Community Village, the Doors of Expression, where you could rap with geeks and cop a free Linux (or free FreeBSD) distro. Or not.
    Did I mention choice?
    My best wishes to the Oz Install Fests.
  • it's nice to see that some threads don't instantly deterioriate into mindless ramblings, namely this one.

    Your comment was well thought out. I do, however, have two addendums to your post:

    A) Not all companies are necessarily as "into" M$ Office as many professionals like to pretend. Currently, I'm a Unix Sysad at one of said companies. While Office is used, particularly Excel and Word, I've found that it is fairly easy to get by with StarOffice (Which, IMHO has done a very good job with their latest release). The largest stumbling block I have seen with windows compatibility, etc. is in the area of networking. I start to get annoyed when I have to *think* about samba mounting my home directory on an NT share just to grab a file my boss pushed to the intranet.

    B) This should be a simple FYI. I was actually a journalism major in college so i feel i have some degree of expertise in the gramatical nuances of the English language. I would be willing to bet that a good number of people posting on slashdot could pay a little more attention to their grammar, at least if they tried. However the idea behind slashdot is more behind the ideas, if you see what i'm trying to get at.

    Nice to see that what appeared to be a troll, or flame, turned into an interesting dialog. (BTW - i *am* aware that I ended the last sentance of the last paragraph in a preposition :P)

    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • by Anonymous Coward

    CABAL InstallFest Page []
    ...hours. Before coming: Read this pre-InstallFest document. Also, RSVP, to...
    ...Ethernet patch cables and hubs. An InstallFest server with ftp and NFS... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 26k - Similar pages []

    InstallFest HOWTO []
    ...Table of Contents InstallFest HOWTO Jono Bacon v1.00 Feb...
    ...and hosting a successful Linux InstallFest. An InstallFest is a... html - Show matches (Cache) [] - 3k - Similar pages []

    Washington, DC Area Linux InstallFest []
    ...Users Group (DCLUG)/NOVALUG InstallFest (Hey, What exactly is an... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 2k - Similar pages []

    Installfest Info Page []
    ... Installfest -- The Purdue Installfest mailing List About...
    ...Installfest mailing List About Installfest This list is for those... fest - Show matches (Cache) [] - 5k - Similar pages []

    Linux Users group at NC State - InstallFest Registration [] InstallFest Registration Instructions In order...
    ...coordinate organization at our monthly installfest, we request that all... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 6k - Simil ar pages []

    Auburn Linux Installfest []
    ...Auburn Linux Installfest The Auburn Linux Installfest is your... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 8k - Similar pages []

    Installfest Info Page []
    ... Installfest -- Organisation / coordination d'install parties nationales....
    ...parties nationales. About Installfest To see the collection of prior... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 5k - Sim ilar pages []

    CLUE: National InstallFest 1998 []
    ...Canadian National InstallFest was held on Saturday, September 25-- an...
    ...User Groups will be updating their InstallFest information pages with... - Sh ow matches (Cache) [] - 3k - Similar pages []

    What Installfest (a definition) []
    ... Installfest An Installfest is a special occasion when computer...
    ...programming from the Internet. The Installfest idea was originated by... - Show matches (Cache) [] - 4k - Similar pages []

    Vancouver Linux Installfest 1998 []
    ...Vancouver Linux Installfest 1998 Installfest II - please see the...
    ...Installfest II - please see the Installfest II page. Program of... html - Show matches (Cache) [] - 6k - Similar pages []

    1 []
    2 []
    3 []
    4 []
    5 []
    6 []
    7 []
    8 []
    9 []
    10 []
    EmailTheseResults []Searchwithinresults [] Try your query on:AltaVista []Deja []eGroups [] Excite []HotBot []Infoseek []Lycos []Open Directory []Yahoo! []

    Copyright ©2000 Google Inc. - About [] - SearchTips []

  • I guess you have never heard the phrase 'we destroy that that we love the most' umm or sumfin'

    LINUX IS DEAD. It was good because it gave a real alternative, but now, more and more it is not an alternative, it is a option.

    Know your enemy, become your enemy...

    I really don't know what to say, Linux is good becuase it lets you do what you want, if you know how, but to compete with windows it has to be an OS that lets you do what you want with a couple of days in college.

    But the more it gets easier the more it's going to lose, 10 years from now we may be all booting straight into gnome/KDE but we are still going have the same options we have now...

    Realy I belive, just as you do, but what when the the revolution is over? when there is no one left to fight.

    In the end only the names change (pathetic but true).

  • OK, is it more or less indisputable that Windows is easier to use than Linux? I'm not saying easier to configure exactly to your specifications, or easier to accomplish some hardcore technical task -- I'm saying easier for Joe Random User to walk in and fire up a word processor, or write an e-mail, or whatever.

    Schools are going to use an OS in their labs that is a.) easy to use and b.) will allow anyone to come in, immediately get to work typing their term paper, and save it in a format used by 98% of the Western world. (Maybe the Eastern world too. I have no idea.)

    Right now, Linux is in no position to be that OS. I'm a reasonably proficient computer user, but the software was too lacking and the learning curve too steep for me to justify making it my primary OS. MacOS might have a shot by virtue of its purported usability, except for its market share. Windows is that OS, perhaps by default.

    Linux has a ways to go before it could contend for that title, but I'm not even sure it's fundamentally well-suited for use as a public terminal. Or not so much ill-suited, but it would probably be overkill in such a setting.

  • by linuxonceleron ( 87032 ) on Tuesday July 04, 2000 @05:07PM (#958042) Homepage
    There's lots of people who are good with computers to a good extent, but haven't heard of this "Linux" thing outside of a 10sec blurb on MSNBC. For this reason these installfests are providing a valuable service, but I'm wondering if there are any books/online resources that could be given to/recommended to the new Linux user? I've seen many a frustrated guru in #linux become frustrated enough to scream RTFM! every time someone asks how to mount their windows partiton. Maybe even a small printout of basic commands and troubleshooting tips could be handed out at the LUG meetings.

    PS: I've never been to a LUG meeting, being only 15, I don't know how well I'd fit in.

  • KDE/Gnome and X in general do a lot for bringing new users to Linux, but its difficult to migrate new users towards the command line.

    I often wonder what effect there will be on hackerdom that the last sub-generation to see text-based computing before they saw graphical computing is no longer the yougest. I recall my first pascal programs being exciting because the marquee wordprocessor of the time (word star) didn't look any different than the text based stuff I was writing.

    Hello world used all the display sophistication that the best consumer apps did. Now hello world looks to be a shadow of an app compared to the amazing graphics in today's apps. It seems young hackers have two options:
    1) Spend their first 2 years writing apps that look lame in comparison to the apps they use
    2) Use GUI builder tools and never understand what's really going on.
  • booya! :)

    Fluxrad: Exccellent! Your reply is an excellent example of how one should respond to trolls and flames. Even with an attack that personal I was impressed how you handles yourself. I would have been too quick to draw for the flame gun, especially these days on /.

  • The school I just graduated from, duPont Manual magnet High School in Louisville, Kentucky, has Linux installed in most of the systems in one of the computer labs. It is used extensively in the networking class and is the operating system of choice among most of the tech-savvy students. However, I don't know of any other schools in the state which run Linux.
  • Fluxrad, you are correct. I made a strong opinion and left it unsupported. For that I am sorry and I will try to rectify myself here.

    At first I somewhat disagreed with your statement that Linux is a good place to learn about computers. After beginning to support my claim, I realized that I do agree with you, with a clause.

    Here's some backround for my next comment: I exclusively use Linux at my job and at home. Personally, I prefer Linux hands down and I feel that Windows is annoying (to say the least). This isn't flamebait, it's my opinion. I used to work for an engineering company and we used windows for all non-CAD related computer activities.

    Schools are a good place to use Linux because Linux supports programming for free. Linux may be lacking in software, but the simpler versions of Spreadsheets and Word Processors may be better for instruction since they aren't laded with extra useless features like so many of the popular applications are. Basically all of the software would be free for classes in programming, word processing, and web design/development.

    Here's the clause: 99.999999% [] of all businesses use MS Office for their office applications. As an engineering student, I hear all the time that school doesn't prepare us for a job in the industry. At my engineering job, we sent all of our project emails out as PowerPoint files. No customers complained about that and understanding the finer suddenly-not-so-useless features of PowerPoint was a big help. I dislike that so many offices use MS Office, but it's true and the youth today need to learn how to use MS Office so that they can use it at jobs.

    So, do I support your statement or disagree with it? I'm not sure. There was a lot more involved once I stopped correcting grammar and thought about it.

    I noticed that you put much more effort into the grammar of your reply. For this, I commend you. I don't enjoy being the grammar nazi troll, but it's nice to see the hard work paying off. Thank you fluxrad.

  • Indeed, it would be interesting to see what could be achieved with some well placed spans, divs, javascript, DOM1 and style="display:none".

    If only I had bugger all to do I might give it a look.
  • i think one of the keys in this fight (if you want to call it that) is to get kids using linux.

    Yes, good god, we don't want kids dealing windows [] now do we?
  • a.out or /Brad,

    What will your reply be to this post? I wasn't trolling or flaming, I was correcting fluxrad's grammar.

    Now I'm going to correct yours...
    Excellent doesn't have two c's. You need a comma between personal and I. It's handled, not handles. Your last sentence has no logic; What does it mean?

    At least fluxrad captured the point of my first post (grammar is important, I wasn't trolling or flaming). Why didn't you, /Brad?

  • AC posts bait.
    Grammar nazi bites.

    You need a comma after AGAIN and a period after ASS. Don't use ALL CAPS unless you mean what you say.

  • by zoftie ( 195518 )
    Would it be hurtful for advocacy to install FreeBSD or OpenBSD on participant's machines instead of linux if they choose to? I don't mean to make a riot but Linux is not the only choice out there, and Linux movement has started as one providing alternative to Win32 platform for 386+ platforms, lets not get caught in the same way Microsoft was in terms of dictating or announcing choices.
  • I'm sorry, but we rent computer time where I work, and you could fucking install a voice-activated, psychic "Hotmail Access Unit" and most morons who rent time would still not be able to manage to sign up for a Hotmail account.

    My prediction? Computers will never be "user friendly" because the more that you can do with a thing, the more complex it is. With complexity comes indimidation, with intimidation comes fear, hatred, and ignorance that manifests itself as stupidity.

    Joe Luser will never be able to sit down at a multi-purpose computing device and be able to divine how to operate it through finesse or design. Windows 98, X, MacOS, Bob, it doesn't matter. User friendliness is a pipe dream.

    So call me Jim Pessimist, but you will never see a computer user interface worth using more intuitive or user friendly than your common nuclear power plant.
  • Being only 15, you would fit in _great_ at a LUG. It doesn't matter if you're the youngest guy there, if you have something to contribute or even if you're just there to learn you'd be valued at a meeting!

    People underestimate how important it is that people GO to LUG meetings; my local LUG was disbanded due to "lack of interest", and I go to one of the biggest CS schools in the country.

    So, everyone, go to the LUG meeting! I didn't start attending mine until it was too late!

  • Serious gamers use consoles, so that they can forget about the OS and hardware upgrades, and concentrate on perfected gameplay as found in games like Mario 64, Gran Turismo or Soul Calibur. It is not only cheaper but more fun.
  • I wholeheartedly agree with your comments, and am consistantly amazed by the blind following of many linux advocates. I like Linux, however I see there are benefits in different platofrms for different purposes. I work in the IT industry, and I can safely say that WindowsNT when built properly, and maintained as a server should be is very rugged and reliable. Certainly the same can be said for *nix based systems, but the degree of knowledge to install, configure and secure one of these boxen is dramatically higher. (And a credit to ya's!)
    As an aside, in my testing and learning about Win2K, I have come to the decision that it does hold the upper edge for at LEAST small-medium size organisations (by this I mean upwards of 000's of clients) will be a better selection for corporate OS. I think that this will start to show in the near future. If the various differnet flavours of linux, or unix develop the comprehensive, easy to manage systems that Microsoft have (whether they did it improperly of not) then they will have thier day. I guess the problem with this is that good idea's CAN be crushed, or copied into submission, a la Netscape, but realisticly, the browser war is a bad yardstick to measure by.
    I guess the important thing is to make RATIONAL decisions based on YOUR impressions, rather than blindly following any mob that has numbers. In MY impression, there is NO WAY you would ever get a school running linux on the desktop in an easy to use fashion, with acceptable applications and maintain its security.
    On the other hand, what we could create would be a generation of smarter, more freely thinking individuals who could certainly hack... ; )
    Wouldnt the fun times roll on then...
  • by fluxrad ( 125130 ) on Tuesday July 04, 2000 @04:40PM (#958056) Homepage
    i think one of the keys in this fight (if you want to call it that) is to get kids using linux. get people familiar. I believe that's one of the big reasons mac's refuse to die - is because all kinds of kids are using 'em. Perhaps we need to have install fests in schools...or at least promote linux classes in addition to all those typing and CS classes that many high-schools already offer.

    Does anyone know of a school who's major OS is linux? that really ought to change. These install fests do help, but only to people who probably would have converted sooner or later anyway. Let's get kids interested in linux, show them the games they can play, show the really geek-oriented kids how cool it is to hack source.

    It's alot easier to get someone to try linux when they've already had at least some exposure to it. Same with anything.

    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • true: but that's RAPIDLY changing.

    Q3A, Terminus, Quake, Quake2, UT, Myth2 just to name a few names - and it's only gonna get better with new features coming out like DRI and such.

    Linux has a very bright future in the gaming industry - maybe not as bright as windows, but very strong.

    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • No real gamer (the kind who will run to buy a GeForce2 card and overclock it) will use Linux just for the games. Compared to Windows, Linux has few impressive games, while Windows gets all of them.

  • Linux-fest sounds like too many LUGgers have nothing to do with their time. When will you ever need to be the fastest installer of Linux? Can you really put that on your resume? Better to be a little slower and not have a ton of post-dated problems.
    Of course, it might just be that I'm really jealous that I'm no competition. ;)

    CAD, kicked, good []

The absent ones are always at fault.