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Microsoft

Microsoft Will Own Part of Corel 122

llornkcor writes, "Microsoft will own part of a Linux Distribution."" Apparently they were a 10% owner in Inprise, so after the Corel/Inprise merger, they will own 4% of Corel. If Corel would make peace with Debian, I would think this would be a good investment.

<RANT> I need to get something off my chest a minute. If you don't care, just skip below and start reading comments.

Why is it that some people are such asses (and please note, that "some" is perhaps a dozen a day) about having their submissions rejected on Slashdot? Last week we rejected nearly 3000 story submissions and posted about 75. So why is it that sometimes when someone gets their submission, they have to go attack Slashdot? It becomes a conspiracy: favoritism, Rob not caring, Slashdot really sucking these days, the list goes on and on, but it never mentions the real reason.

The fact is that we post a fraction of all submissions. And we don't post any submission just because it contains the word Linux or Microsoft. Just because we reject a submission doesn't mean it doesn't matter, it just means that when it was submitted, it didn't make the cut. I want Slashdot to be a fun mix: stuff that matters. Legos? Linux? Black Holes? Nanotech? If Slashdot was all serious, I wouldn't enjoy reading it or running it. I've always worked hard to make sure that there's a good mix of stories. Stuff that appeals to a wide range of interests within the 'News for Nerds' umbrella.

But I see Web sites all over with these childish little notes on them: "Slashdot rejected my submission, so obviously (fill in blank with conspiracy theory listed above)". This gets worse because in the last 18 months or so, cheesy little Web sites with the word "Linux" or "Geek" in them have started growing exponentially. Don't get me wrong, a lot of really great Web sites have sprung up too, but the fact is that there are hundreds of them now, and a lot of them have hostility towards Slashdot, and take it very personally when they get rejected. I'm not going to link anything and everything they post.

The personal attacks get old; they hurt because we all work so hard making Slashdot happen each day... and attacking us because we didn't agree with your submission doesn't make our jobs any easier.

Oh, and best of all, most every story we post has comments bitching that it shouldn't have been posted. Oh what fun.

All right, I got that off my chest. I'm not mad, I just felt the need to vent a little. Thanks for reading.

update This rant originally was not offtopic: this was in regards to a mean spirited little statement that was attached to this story on AboutLinux.com. The statement was dropped almost immediately after this story appeared. I appreciated that, but an apology would have been nicer. </RANT>

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Microsoft Will Own Part of Corel

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    [I am not at my normal web broswer, and I did not log in as I forgot my password. This is the author of the article in question, Bill Henning.]

    My apologies for the snide remark at the top of my article; I was peeved that MS owning a part of Corel appeared not to be news.

    Rob et al do a great job; SlashDot is my favorite site - and in order that I do not get peeved off in the future, and so that I do not upset Rob et al in the future I will try not to submit news in the future.

    I have pulled the snide remark, and you have my apology.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Corel says you must be 18 to download their Linux distribution, because otherwise the GPL would be unenforacble. But the GPL specifically says that you DON'T need to agree to it's terms to use the software. In fact, it is a GPL violation to refuse to give someone a program because they are under 18. They've had other license problems in the past too (the license on their beta was too restrictive, but they fixed it).
  • The irony is biting, particularly as I just went through a round of emails with Rob last week regarding off-topic meta-commentary on Slashdot in various posts. I'd run across an announcement of the Slashdot/VA merger in an unrelated article -- prior to Slashdot's posting notice of the announcement -- which had been moderated "Offtopic". I contested the rating, and the general practice of down-moderating Slashdot-topic posts, see below for salient commentary.


    Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:32:55 -0500 (EST)
    From: Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
    To: kmself@ix.netcom.com
    cc: cmdrtaco@slashdot.org
    Subject: Re: Metamoderation comments

    On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 kmself@ix.netcom.com wrote:

    > While the moderation is technically true, the fact is that there is *no*
    > place on Slashdot to address news or issues concerning Slashdot itself.
    > While the post is off _topic_, I feel it is on _meta_topic, and that
    > the moderation was inappropriate.

    I think its completely offtopic and deserves to be moderated down.

    People need to chill out and wait until a story comes along *about* Slashdot
    and talk *there* about it. At least then (surprise) I might read it and do
    something about it.

    --
    | Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda | Just want to be misunderstood,
    | malda(@)slashdot.org | I wanna be feared in my neighborhood.
    | http://slashdot.org/ | Just want to be a moody man,
    | cartoonist*lovemachi | say things that nobody can understand.
    | ne*obsessivecompulsi | --Pete Townshend, Misunderstood

    My point: Slashdot metacommentary is always, if not on topic, at least on metatopic. What's particularly ironic in this case is that Rob could have created an article to post his rant to, and ensuing commentary, but instead chose to post it here, despite what he'd said to me last week.

    It's not the off-topicality that I'm objecting to in Rob's rant, it's the hypocrisy.

    And I continue to request that there be a persistant, front-page linked, Slashdot-on-Slashdot forum where these conversations are on topic. Failing to provide such a forum, while encouraging the marking of such posts off-topic, is a subtle form of censorship.

    What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?

  • by rodgerd ( 402 )

    Microsoft are now an OpenSource company, releasing GPL products.

    Must be time to juxtapose all those Microsoft press releases and interviews with senior figures wherein it was asserted that Microsoft customers had no interest in seeing the source.

    Re: Rant. I find it ironic that CmdrTaco is complaining about people not having Linux & Microsoft stories appearing. I started reading ars techinca mainly because it currently has more interesting general science and technology stories than /. (like the holographic teacher systems).

  • by pb ( 1020 )
    Conspiracy theory time: hey, Rob, did you post that to defray the inevitable attack on the story posting?

    ...because the Microsoft guys have a lot of money, and they all own a lot of stuff. It's an investment. Like Transmeta.

    Let me know when Microsoft owns 50% of something I care about. Then I'll start to worry!
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
  • isn't Corel still suing Microsoft over DR DOS and such?

    I think you mean Caldera.

    how, if at all will microsoft owning 4% of Corel affect the outcome of the lawsuit?

    That was already settled out of court. I see no affect possible on the past.

    i'd say the fact Corel ships a halfassed, not-fully-developed, debian-based linux distro is probably not the most alarming aspect of all this.

    Release early release often. When was that a crime? As far as polished, its right up there with Redhat and Mandrake (except 7.0).

    I also agree with the rant. I wish Rob congradulations on a great sight, and the publicity from the other sights....

    Hmmm, funny I have no moderation points to use so I have to simply offer corrections. Maybe that should be my new sig...
    ^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^ ~
  • I've submit about a story every 3 months, and I don't think I've had one accepted in like 2 years. ;-) Every time I find out my story was rejected, I feel a bit rejected.

    Honestly though, after a few seconds, I realize you guys get a LOT of stories (every time I post there's like 400 submissions ahead of me), and I know I don't want Slashdot to be posting anything near 400 articles a day. I'm sure that there are 400 people who think there story is just as great/important/life affirming/etc. as mine, so that has to mean most people are going to get disappointed.

    This isn't exactly a big leap in logic. I'd suggest to you that those who DON'T make the leap in logic are probably not worth your time and energy.

    I sometimes wonder though, if it might be fun to spawn off a seperate site which just lists all the submissions you guys have rejected, if for no other reason than humor. ;-)
  • I think what is really sad about this is that William Henning submitted his own story to Slashdot, or that's how the web page makes it look at least. If I were on the Slashdot approval team, I'd automatically reject any story submitted by it's author in favor of waiting to see if someone else actually thinks its worth submitting. To do otherwise is to encourage people to promote their own sites here.
    --
    Making iDirt 1.82 a safer place, one bug at a time.
  • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak&yahoo,com> on Saturday February 19, 2000 @08:57AM (#1259751) Homepage Journal
    The DOJ could use this as evidence that Microsoft is buying up Linux, in an effort to crush competition, during these last few days of settlement talks. It may even raise the penalty exacted on Microsoft, substantially.

    Somehow, I don't see many people on this site crying over that, if it happens.

    Next, a note to CmdrTaco - Hang in there! There -ARE- people here who know how hard you work, how hard it is to maintain a popular site, and how abusive some of the folks out there can be, if they feel they're not getting enough limelight.

    If there is ANYTHING I can do to help, feel free. This is an open-ended, no-strings-attached offer. Even if you just want someone to listen, whilst you vent, that's fine. Sometimes, we all need that. You're a nice guy, and deserve better than to be used as a target.

    Lastly, a note to all those who complain that their submissions are being rejected: Run your own news site, if you feel that way! DON'T bug us readers, OR the admins, over your petty jelousy. Slashodt posts maybe a dozen or so topics per day. I've YET to see a day in which the queue hasn't shown 220+ submissions ahead of mine. If your odds of getting a single entry in is 1:220, then you'd have to post 220 articles of interest before you'd have an even chance of getting ONE of those posted!

    Are you going to stand there and whinge over the other 219? Or are you going to act like a mature human being, accept that you're not God, and read & reply to the topics that ARE covered?

    Are you man or mouse? Human or Heffalump? Are you willing to put your pride to one side, and talk about matters of interest, or wallow in childish self-pity?

  • Thanks for link to kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org] , first of all. It's good to see Slashdot getting some competition!

    This idea of have voting on submission is really taking this discussion site idea to a new level. It would be great to see that on Slashdot in some form or another. The FAQ currently states on the issue:

    Believe me when I say the submissions box isn't fit for mainstream consumption. We work really hard to keep a certain standard up on Slashdot, and I feel that opening up the submissions bin would be so prone to abuses, that it would make it much more difficult to maintain.

    The point you are making is not very good. Whoever is voting on submissions is not a mainstream consumer. He knows that he has to put up with crap. Hey, when I have moderater access right now I got down to "-1", I see things I NEVER see, when I am at my usual "+2".

    There are some valid points, why an intelligent editor might pick better stories than mass voting: He adds presonality and has an overall consistency that might get lost.

    So here is the idea: Why not having a seperate SECTION with highly voted stories. Pick, say, every 6 hours the best 3 or what have you, and post them in the section no matter what. If the selection sometimes is lousy and "M$ ate my ballz" makes, so what. Let the visitors of the site decide if they want to see that section or not.

    For now, I gonna head over to kuro5hin and check it out.

  • I've been suggesting this for Slashdot for a long time. When I posted it to the "Ask /." interview, it was met with yelling and the response that it was covered in the FAQ. Well, no it's not. A moderated incoming queue would address all of the issues raised there (except the broken HTML, and there's simple technical fixes for that) and it would address a lot of what today's rant is about.

    --

  • Moderators _are_ the human touch. All respect to Rob & Co., but they've been known to be fooled by stuff that looks authoritative too. And as the rant demonstrates, it's not really working out perfectly the current way.

    Editors for the final decision is perfectly fine with me. But now, instead of looking through all the stuff they get, they'd just have to skim the top of the list. If they've got extra time, they could even look through the queue and post lower-rated stuff they find personally interesting.

    --

  • Look at this story from today [slashdot.org] for an example of how this would help. Maybe CmdrTaco meant to post this as a followup to the earlier articles, but he doesn't reference them and it sure looks like it's just a repeat. Now, there's people bitching about that. With a moderated queue, that complaint would come out beforehand, and if the /. editors still want to post it, they could revise the article to mention that it's an update to earlier stuff.

    --

  • Thanks for the link to kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org]. It looks like a cool site and I've been looking for an alternative to Slashdot, not because I don't like it anymore, but because I WOULD LIKE MORE TO READ and Slashdot does not post enough stories for me. I've posted something similar before, but no one seems to care and/or listen. Oh well, whatever. If not here, I can go other places for additional content. I'll still come to Slashdot, but now I have another cool weblog to visit. Anyone else have any other sites they particularly like for Slashdot-style stories and information? I'm sure I'm not the only person who would be interested. Thanks in advance.

    Have you looked at kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org] yet? Very cool site. Check it out.
    ----------------
  • Not much, really. I guess the main thing that would be annoying us is that Corel haven't really given that much back to Debian, even though they talked about doing so early on. It's also a bit annoying that you can't upgrade cleanly from Corel to Debian. Sometimes people get annoied when Corel don't credit Debian.

    I don't think there's anything really major, and certainly nothing insurmountable.
  • Why wasn't it posted when I submitted it, huh?!? I guess only CmdrTaco gets the right to rant????

    Nah, seriously, there seems to be so many clichés on /.. "No doubt this'll get moderated down..", "I submitted this last week, and NOW it gets posted.." etc.

    The mix of stuff on /. is pretty good on the whole - but how about an option to see the rejected, 'b-side' stories too if you have too much time to waste? :)

  • No offense, but rob's rant should have been moderated to (0, Offtopic). If he needed to say that, he could have posted it as an another article. The corel thing is interesting as heck to me, and now i'm going to have to search through comments pertaining to rob's rant, which i don't paticuarly care about (let the kiddies whine all they want, i've had stories rejected before and don't care) to see comments pertaining to the corel thing. *sigh*
  • by Duke of URL ( 10219 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @08:32AM (#1259760)
    Can someone inform me what the trouble is between Debian and Corel? I have no clue.

    On the subject of the rant:
    Can Slashdot et. al post more stories/articles in a day? I just want to be able to read more interesting stuff.
  • Am I missing somthing here, why was this posted along with this 'MS owns a part of Corel' story?

    Because the story apparently contained complaints about being mad at Slashdot for rejecting the author's stories; according to the end of Rob's rant, the part Rob was ranting about was simply deleted without comment or explanation.

    Jay (=
  • Stop and consider it. Which has the most assimilating power? For years Microsoft has been our Borg but we created a postive assimilating army to fight back and we call it Linux. Microsoft is only a company but Linux is a viral culture. Trying to stop Linux is like trying to stamp out a the Bible. Pretty damn unlikely right? When the two combine Linux will eventually be the part that shines through. It might actually help our cause if we gave Microsoft a 4% share of all the major Linux companies. Enough to benefit from the profit without being enough to give them control. When they see profit coming from it they'd be foolish to make any attacks and foolish not to grow their own market share by making their apps Linux compatible.
  • What happens when someone who works for a given company wants to post a story that talks about something that's not all positive about given company? I know it hasn't happened yet (that I've seen) but it's a distinct possibility....

    Also, there are some genius AC's out there... They should have the same rights as every other slashdot citizen...
  • The DOJ could use this as evidence that Microsoft is buying up Linux, in an effort to crush competition, during these last few days of settlement talks. It may even raise the penalty exacted on Microsoft, substantially.

    No they couldn't... Microsoft already owned their piece of inprise... Corel came along and bought Inprise. It's not microsofts problem that a company they invested in got bought by a company that deals in linux.
  • i'd say the fact Corel ships a halfassed, not-fully-developed, debian-based linux distro is probably not the most alarming aspect of all this.

    isn't Corel still suing Microsoft over DR DOS and such?
    how, if at all will microsoft owning 4% of Corel affect the outcome of the lawsuit?

    At least it's only 4%.. if it were any more you'd have to get really worried about the fact microsoft has a finger in both Word _and_ Wordperfect.

    --ps: i agree with rob COMPLETELY about the rant attached to the article. every other story has at least one person whining "why was this rejected when I submitted it?", apparently oblivious to the fact nobody cares. It's probably about the fourth or fifth most irritating thing about slashdot, right behind the people complaining in every other story that the story was unworthy to have made Slashdot's front page. apparently continuing scrolling and not reading or clicking near the article was taking up too much of their time, but posting a comment and bitching was effortless.. apparently cdmrtaco has no right to litter their screens with a linux kernel upgrade announcement that they personally do not care about on slashdot's front page, yet they have the right to litter the screens of the people reading that announcement to announce they don't want to be reading the article they're replying to..--
  • > I think you mean Caldera.

    aha! i am apparently an idiot.

    > Release early release often. When was that a crime? As far as polished, its right up there with Redhat and Mandrake (except 7.0).

    I wasn't trying to say Corel Linux was bad or anything-- i haven't used it, i'm just expecting from it what should be expected from a 1.0 product. i'm trying to say it's probably not quite developed, mature, or [most importantly] _influential_ enough yet that microsoft having some influence over it is as alarming as, say, microsoft having some influence over wordperfect.

    i probably should have left the entire line about "halfassed" out. it was totally unneccicary and apparently offensive. i dunno.
  • Forgive my foggy memory, but didn't Microsoft make some kind of promise to keep out of Unix stuff when they sold Xenix (?) to SCO? Perhaps Linux doesn't count since it's not 'officially' Unix?


    ---
  • "Oh, and one more thing:
    And we don't post any submission that contains the word Linux or Microsoft."

    Hhhhmmmm....

    It actually says "And we don't post any submission just because it contains the word Linux or Microsoft. " (emphasis added).

    Does it make more sense now? :)

    Cheers,

    Tim
  • You used the word "customers" 4 times; that's kind of odd, considering that we're not customers.

    True, the people behind Slashdot get paid, and true, our hits contribute to the site's advertising revenue (well, those of you that don't use junkbuster or similar...), but unless the bill hasn't reached me yet, I haven't paid them anything for reading this site.

    Perhaps we should turn your argument around - don't the staff deserve to be treated properly by their "customers"?

    Just because they're getting paid to do what they do does not give people the right to flame them because their story didn't get submitted. I work at a web agency; we do web site design, coding and hosting. Without clients, we wouldn't exist. And do you know what? If one of our customers starts behaving unreasonably, and insulting the staff, we get rid of them.

    "The customer is always right" does not apply to abusive ones.

    Tim
  • It usually goes something like this.
    1. Someone submits something about nanotechnology. Roblimo, who is having a really bad day, reads it and thinks "aww f***ing great, ANOTHER f***ing nanobot story. I'll post it to f***ing /dev/null".
    2. A day later the same thing is submitted by someone else. Hemos reads and thinks "Nanos, COOL. I'll post it right away!"
    3. The original submitter feels somewhat frustrated.
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I can understand why the original poster might be a little disappointed. Of course, any reasonable guy understands that this isn't an attack towards him by the the /. crew and soon forgets the whole thing happened. But there are something like 200,000 registered users plus the all the ACs. Some of them are not reasonable. Ignore them.
  • It's a shame that something as trivial as Microsoft's accidental ownership of Corel/Inprise could generate news. Microsoft's payoff to Inprise is very old news indeed, for some of the same reasons that Microsoft paid off Apple. Who cares if Microsoft owns 4% of Corel? Nobody except the truly paranoid. Will it amount to much of anything? Absolutely not. And to the little poster who said that the DoJ would point to this as another instance of Microsoft trying to buy and suppress, get a life.

    As far as the rant is concerned, it is equally pointless.
  • Damn right. I talked to Robin about this at LinuxWorld, and the basic explanation was:

    1. The queue would be overrun with Natalie Portman, etc.

    2. We've got so much stuff to do, there's a lot of functionality we haven't gotten around to implementing

    Okay, as far as #2 goes, fine, things take time. But that's not what the FAQ says. And here's a solution to #1:

    Only /. officials can see the queue at first. But instead of having two options (accept / reject), give them three (accept / reject / defer). That way, they can reject all the completely, utterly worthless crap, but anything remotely marginal gets dumped to a public queue.

    And yes, instead of this queue just having accept / reject, it should work just like the comments - give the story submission a rating, have the system average them together, and let users set a story threshold.
  • I would have thought that this was a good idea were it not for the fact that moderation of submissions could be pretty clueless. A lot of moderators aren't experts in a given field and therefore don't know the issues well enough to distinguish between insight and bullshit.

    I put more faith in the community at large to evaluate the insightfulness of a story than the /. crew - they're certainly not experts in every field.

    Plus, you have the additional editorial nighmare that if a misleading article gets moderated through and the editors subsequently decide to reject it,then all hell of a flamewar would break loose.

    The whole point is that the editors wouldn't have to do that - once it got out that the article was misleading, the /. community would slaughter it with bad moderation until it disappeared again.
  • I was already frightened of Corel. This news does nothing to alleviate that fact. I wonder if Microsoft will attempt to rid itself of this holding. They continue to say that they have competition in the OS market due to linux. Now they own 4% of a company that's using linux to attempt to redefine their corporate strategy and markets? Doesn't make sense to me.
  • My thoughts on the rant: the people who are described in the rant are certainly being jerks, but they should not be confused with the people who say "I submitted this story two weeks ago and it was rejected and now it's being posted late." I think the latter complaint does indicate that editorial processes at /. could use some ironing out (no conspiriacy theory, no attribution of ill will, just a boring technicality :-)

    This is also a relatively minor complaint. /. is still probably the most up-to-date place on the net on most of the issues it covers -- but it could be even more so. If /. were able to work out a system whereby if a story is to be posted, it will actually be posted the first time it is submitted, /. would probably have a scoop (or close to it) on with about every story

    Anyway, keep up the good work, Rob & co. We do love you (think of it as having 100,000 attentive mothers fussing over you and encouraging you to do what you can to improve :-)

    ========
    +++For-pay Internet distributed processing. [processtree.com]+++

  • Microsoft owns a silent, non-voting share of Inprise last time I checked. They don't have anybody on the board, so they don't impact on Inprise/Corel's business decisions.
    I think there are many more reasons to be skeptical about this (somewhat shady) merger, but they don't have to do with conspiracy theories. There's no reason at all why Corel (productivity/graphics company with a Linux distro targetted at beginners' desktops) needs to be in the same company with Inprise (tools/middleware company with upcoming Linux products targetted at high-end professional developers). There's just no fit there. But some folks figured it would make the two companies seem more credibly like "Linux companies" to some investors who are only looking at keywords, so they let it go through.
    --JRZ
  • The DOJ angle is not neccessarily applicable here, since the 'ownership' is merely a side effect of what seems to be a merger that makes sense.

    I could see the DOJ, as part of a settlement, forcing MS to divest this holding for two reasons.

    1. Part ownership of a competing app suite

    2. Part ownership of a big distro of a competing OS

    Since those are the two biggest areas of complaint against MS, having them own a stake in the competition, whether intentionally or not, could cause problems.
  • Am I missing somthing here, why was this posted along with this 'MS owns a part of Corel' story?

    Why not just write an essay and post it seperately, or just post a comment the next time someone bitches?

    Oh, and one more thing:
    And we don't post any submission that contains the word Linux or Microsoft.

    I had to read that like 4 times before it made any sense, you might want to change 'any' to 'all'. It looked like you would notPost a story at all if it included the words 'linux' or 'microsoft'. Witch didn't make to much sense to me...

    [ c h a d o k e r e ] [dhs.org]
  • The question you should be asking is How much of the NSA does Corel own

    Those canucks have been wanting a piece of our National Security Agency for a long time, since they haven't been able to build there own shadow government worth shit. Now that Corel owns a part of the NSA, they can just use ours on the weekends or something. Plenty of time to disappear 'undesirables'

    [ c h a d o k e r e ] [dhs.org]
  • MS owns pieces of so many companies that this was bound to happen.
  • Not having a place to place the rant is another indicator that an "About Slashdot" Section is necessary.

    Please make an About Slashdot Section Give it a Slashbox as "Features" has. Let people submit items to it. Significant articles can be promoted to main page, just as "Ask Slashdot" does.

    Then we can have discussions about our discussions system, rather than scattering these metadiscussions within the other articles. At least once a week we go off on a /. tangent in some unfortunate discussion. Save us from ourselves...

  • by James Dean ( 28259 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @08:34AM (#1259783)
    This'll be great. Now everytime Corel does something unpopular all of the idiots will be blaming it on MS's 4% ownership of Corel. Great fodder for all of the zealots out there.
  • I've posted about 5 stories, one of them got
    posted. I could have posted 20-30 stories and
    not complaining about them being posted.

    When you look at the amount of stories ahead
    of you in the queue, it is given that the slashdot
    -people may not even have the time to read every
    one of them very carefully.
    I run my own Linuxssite, in norwegian http://www.linuxguiden.org, and I don't post
    every article submitted.
    If I really don't think it is interesting to
    the readers, I won't post it. It is as easy as that, and really the editors just has to make that choice.

    That being said, I don't understand why this
    ranting was put under one of the regular news.
    Now I have written a comment to the ranting, that
    people reading the news, might not be interested
    in. It could be moderated down normally, but
    the ranting made this posting legit.
    Really...post all this ranting under different
    headlines than other postings.

  • by at-b ( 31918 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @09:31AM (#1259785) Homepage

    Ok, this'll get hammered mercilessly, but as Lando Calrissian once said.. here goes nothing:


    Rob, you've been enormously successful with this site. You get million(s) of hits a day. And as your success grows, so does criticism.
    You don't learn that studying algorithms and putting together nifty CGI movies, but either in management school (oh, the horror) or through personal experience - as people's attention to your action increases, so does negative coverage. I mean, what're trying to do here is noble; a weblog of matters relevant to a small subsection of the population. Yeah, I know - it's frightening, but the type of geeks we are is and never will be the majority - 'cause if Jon Katz's Hellmouth articles taught us anything, then it was that we're a minority. We were the strange outcasts in school. We were weird. Why? Because we were different from everybody else - yeah, that's right. Everybody else was a majority.
    (Bear with me here, I'm getting to a point)
    Now, you've created a site that caters to - supposedly - every geek's wet dream, a concoction of tech news, relevant media stuff, general assorted 'rights online' politically-related stories and everything else one could possibly ever care about. And here's the catch. How many stories do you post a day? Not more than a dozen or two. Selected from 400++ daily submissions. Who makes the selections? You do. Hemos does. Roblimo. Emmett. The rest of the gang. And most of those people are either friends of yours or share a fairly near-identical view of what's relevant. Of what's news for nerds. Of what is Stuff That Matters. However, a million page views or so a day to Slashdot is likely to attract the attention of say, 20% of people whose views are fairly different from your own. Of those 20%, perhaps half will fairly violently disagree with the comments attached to stories - and with the general mood of the discussions going on after the stories are posted. I know Slashdot caters to a wide audience, but maybe there're tens of thousands of people reading this, people we're commonly deriding as PHBs. What do they want to read about? Tech news. Stuff that's relevant to their jobs. Perhaps they're even interested in the 63k+ Windows2k bugs, and need to make strategic decisions on how to upgrade their systems. Maybe they care that StarOffice is now supported by Sun. Or that LinuxCare has a deal with Dell. Like that very subsection that we're deriding, another subsection is very dissatisfied when a story they're submitting isn't posted. Perhaps some of the people bitching are not old enough to understand the consequences of their actions. Perhaps they're just annoyed that their latest "M$ SUCKZ, D00D!" article was rejected and Slashdot instead posts something about "Research Institutions and Corporate Interests" - I mean, who carez, D00D? You're not giving any thought to the fact that Slashdot is probably one of the favourite places for script kiddies to go. Their juvenile sense for destruction can express itself in flaming away on the discussion threads. Finally a way for them to publically attract attention to their verbal skills. Finally a forum where their PEERS live. What many people don't figure out is that script kiddies often think that they're ELITE. Some of them may even quickly paste together a website mimicking Slashdot, to attract the same amount of peer attention that you, Rob, have done. So people worship them in the same sense that Rob has become an OSS hero and icon of geeks worldwide. Who became a multimillionaire (Andover money + stock options + VA Linux stock options == lots of AIBOs) simply by turning his hobby into his job. Who wouldn't want to become rich and famous by writing a web page? The complexity of the behind-the-scenes work necessary for Slashdot seems to be lost on many of them, though. Which is why you're in the limelight, Rob. Your work isn't appreciated. You are admired and hated at the same time. The time people spent honing their '$ winnuke www.microsoft.com' skills wasn't used to acquire any social skills. On the internet, people will flame if they dislike who you are, and what you stand for.
    Please Rob - don't be amazed and rant at people complaining about story submissions. Slashdot has become increasingly pro-Linux, anti-MS, pro-Libertarian, anti-Responsibility ("don't like that piece of software? hack it yourself!"), and unpalatable for many people. I still like it, but many others don't. Just please don't rant at the reactions caused by the creation of your own hands. It's become very, very big - and all that's missing is the 'Caveat Emptor' banner over the main page.

    Finally - in the 'Ask Rob and Hemos anything' interview a while ago, people asked why the story submission queue wasn't opened up for moderation. You guys answered that you didn't really know what the person meant. To clarify: Have a separate page, or possibly even a very very long slashbox, where people can see all the stories currently in the submission queue. People with moderation points (that means more moderators) can then give moderation points to a story. Once the story reaches a certain number of points, it gets moved onto the front page. People can then set their 'threshold' for front page stories, and moderators can still give stories points, so I can for instance decide that I only want to see stories that received 20+ points, etc. Similarly, it's still possible to filter out stories that are on a certain subject - so I can still killfile Apache stories, or FreeBSD stuff.
    The result? A truly open source forum. Won't happen, though.

    Anyway, here's the end of my offtopic troll flamebait rant. It's really not an ad hominem attack against Rob or anyone else in particular. However, once you reach a certain status/fame, you're subject to attacks by 'lesser' people - as ESR's 'take my job, please' rant once attested.

    int end_of_rant();

    Alex T-B

  • Remember, if you don't like the way Hemos spells or whatever, IT'S NOT YOUR SITE! No matter how much money they came into, or how "PROFESSIONAL" you expect this site to be, it doesn't have to. It's THEIR site, they can do whatever the hell they want to with it. If they want to make it a military site for a day with embedded midi files and candy cane coloring and animated oompa loompas, THEY CAN.

    While the gist of what you're saying is true, you draw the wrong conclusions. Yes, Rob and Hemos and the rest can do whatever they want with this site, and part of that omnipotence includes allowing or forbidding people from using the site in ways they don't appreciate. They have set up a system where the community gives back its feedback, and if they don't like the feedback then they can change the system.

    It's one thing to say: "Hey, we don't think you understand all the effort we put into this site, and we think that you'd realize we're being fair if you did." It's another to complain about people's audacity for "talking back", which is what the site is about in the first place. And the proper place for Rob's rant is not to be attached to this unrelated story but either in its own story, attached to the form you get when you submit a story, or ideally both.

    As for the animated oompa loompas [wonka.com], there might be some copyright issues to be worked out first with the Wonka candy company, unless VA Linux is buying them out next. Hey, you never know.
  • Microsoft owns a silent, non-voting share of Inprise last time I checked.

    This is true. MS's investment in Inprise was part of a settlement of the lawsuit Inprise filed against MS for stealing their developers.

    I think there are many more reasons to be skeptical about this (somewhat shady) merger

    I'm curious if you could elaborate on what you consider "shady" about the deal.

    here's no reason at all why Corel (productivity/graphics company with a Linux distro targetted at beginners' desktops) needs to be in the same company with Inprise (tools/middleware company with upcoming Linux products targetted at high-end professional developers). There's just no fit there.

    Sure there is... let me try to set it out the way I see it... (bear with me, I'm thinking this through as I go...)

    • What Corel brings: name brand office suite, desktop-oriented Linux distribution, high-end graphics apps
    • What Inprise brings: open source database (Interbase), app server, developers tools
    While they may not "need" to be in the same company, I think combining them makes sense, because:
    • Inprise's developer tools will be building apps for Linux desktops. Corel is shooting for the Linux desktop market, so it makes sense that they'd want Inprise's developer tools to be "optimized" for Corel's distro.
    • Corel/Inprise is in the position to provide a total package to a small business. They have a desktop OS, a database, an app server, a server OS, and an office suite... all of which will presumably be designed to work well together.
    The way I see it, Corel/Inprise has about six months to a year to get their act together... when MS starts dropping support for NT 4.x, small businesses currently using NT 4.x will have to upgrade. If they're a really small business (i.e. too small for a full-time sysadmin), then a complete package like what Corel/Inprise can deliver is about their only alternative to Win2000. Further, it could be a very compelling alternative, since it'll be a lot cheaper (both outright, and due to the fact that the hardware won't have to be upgraded as well).

    So basically, Corel is shooting for the business/consumer desktop, and Inprise helps them on both fronts, and doesn't hurt them anywhere. About the only negative to the whole deal I see is Cowpland.

    --

  • I know this comment is waaay too late to effect any changes, or affect any opinion...

    I have submitted a few stories, and always have had them rejected. Sometimes, the next day they have posted the "story", but it was someone else's article. I have gotten upset, sometimes posting OT rants in the article comments anout why I was rejected (and been subsequently moderated down for trolling). I haven't ever vented my frustration via a web page, feeling that was not worth mine or anyone else's time.

    I have always wondered, though, why my article submissions were rejected. Unlike the rest of /., I have no feedback on my performance - is the article too wordy, too long, not well written, need more info... what? I will never know. I have seen articles posted that were all of the above, yet still make it. I have tried to keep my articles of a moderate length, well written, and mostly informed (although a recent submission better be rejected - because it only shows that I am clueless - hah! Bet it is the one accepted!).

    Now, when I submit an article, I don't get too bent if it isn't accepted, or if someone else "preempts" me with a similar article that is accepted. I merely nod, and go on with life, noting that someone else got there first, and people will still see what I found important as well, and that is what matters in the end.

    Still, I wish there was a way that I could see why my submissions failed, so I could strive to make future submissions better. A simple one or two word feedback would be a good start - in fact, with the number of submissions coming in, and the number that HAS to be rejected, leaving those few remaining - perhaps a one or two word feedback on the article, somewhere in the user prefs area so we could check it easily, would be a good way to start.

    I am thinking something similar to moderation comments (such as "Troll", "Flamebait", "Informative" - but with a feedback bent: "Too wordy", "More info", "Accepted - Informative")...
  • Contemplate the idea of having a soft-toy penguin sitting atop your monitor with the words: "Microsoft Linux" printed on it's breast.

    Probably the kind of thing Linus T. has nightmares about :)
  • At most newspapers, press releases comprise a majority of the mail that floods in every day.
    Many editors just throw these away, as most of them are trash anyway.

    It's an editor's privilige use news judgement and throw out anything that doesn't work.

    A "wall of shame" might work to discourage annoying complaints. Every day, just post the most annoying letter you get to the wall, with your editorial comments.

  • Hi Sri!

    Unfortunately anonymous posters could quite easily create a user just for a purposes of posting. A user name doen't validate that the person won't want to troll if that's the purpose of the user account.

    With the moderation problems of the current system (in that moderat0rs giving their points to topics they don't know enough about but that look authoritive [advogato.org]) would be more problematic when they have control over stories also.

    Unfortunately I think a human touch is the only current way to see through the shit.

    However what I'd like to see is an open possible article list that anyone can post on to help assist/(troll) the editors in choosing good stories - with the final decision being on the editor. Previous articles like the Quake text mode version will then hopefully be known about before posting (ed's can still post it with the backing that it doesn't look so accidental)

    Thank you for your time, and may you get breakfast in bed tomorrow morning, champ.

  • I agree...there should be some small place in which comments on Slashdot are on-topic. Doesn't even have to be its own section. Maybe just some flat list of posts. Something where people can point out what sucks or is broken, or what is cool, or things that need to be done, etc., and not get moderated down for being offtopic. I think talk about Slashdot, as long as it isn't flaming or trolling is always somewhat on topic.

    Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
  • Intersting. I just installed Corel linux today. The only real snag I ran into was after the install was complete(took less time than yesterday's 2000 installs at work), it wouldn't let me eject the CD out of the drive, and it gave me some cryptic error. rebooted manually, and I was on my way. Just wish i had pico so I could edit samba(wow, I only spent like 3 minutes on samba, and it for the most part works, just need to add permissions). Video didn't even puke. I was amazed. This seems to be a lot better than RH 6.1
  • I think you are completely wrongheaded about this. Work ethic has nothing to do with putting up with irritating flames from every story submitter who feels that a rejection is a personal afront. And if you think Rob brought /. this far without work ethic...well...that just doesn't make any sense.

    And to be perfectly honest, the extent of the "customer service" required for a site like slashdot is posting stories relevent to most readers and keeping the site online.

    You seem to confuse business models here. McDonalds requires you to deal directly with customers and in doing so, be nice to everyone who comes in. Slashdot does not. To reiterate, Rob's job is to a) Keep the site running properly. and b) Post relevant stories.

    Notice I didn't include C) Kiss the ass of people who get upset because the story they submitted was rejected.

    We don't pay members of the press to be nice.

    --GnrcMan--
  • What he meant was "We don't post just any submissions with the word 'Linux' or 'Microsoft." (or another way of phrasing it: "We don't post all submissions with the word 'Linux' or 'Microsoft.")
    Hail The Taco!
  • This "story" by CmdrTaco is certainly one of the weirdest I've seen in a while. 10% investment advice and 90% very personally taken _off-topic_ rant justifying rejected submissions.

    Or is the rant really off-topic?

    As it happens, another - and 100% Linux and Slashdot-related - investment story has been posted to both Linux Weekly News (2/17) and Linux Today (2/19). (Would these be "cheesy little websites with the word "Linux" that CmdrTaco was referring to in his rant?) The story these other two Linux news sites posted was based on an article in the Financial Observer titled "The Latest Rip-offs From Dot-Com Land" and it cast Slashdot's former and current owners in rather bad light. Yes, it was about investing.

    "One of the most cynical deals recently involves the merger of two software companies trying to cash in on the Linux operating system craze: Andover.net Inc. of Acton, Mass., and VA Linux Systems Inc. of Sunnyvale, Calif.-which went public within 24 hours of each other back in early December. Less than eight weeks later, on Feb. 3, the two companies announced a stock-for-stock merger..."

    "As for investors in VA Linux, they are getting hosed... the only really valuable asset Andover.net ever had - it's cash from the I.P.O.-was creamed off by the company's insiders almost the very instant they got their hands on it, leaving VA Linux's shareholders to face a 100 percent increase in the float of their own stock for the privilege of winding up with the worthless trash that the Andover.net bunch dumped at the very first opportunity."

    Now, this story with IMO considerable relevance to Slashdot readers (not only because these companies own Slashdot and made her founders very wealthy, but also because so many stories were posted here in the past plugging these companies and their IPO) was certainly submitted a number of times but it's getting rejected while another story about MS having owning 10% of Inprise now ends up with 4% of Corel passes the submission filters.

    Call me cynical and a conspiracy theorist but I find it hard to believe that CmdrTaco finds the posted story more interesting or relevant to himself and his audience than the one rejected.

    Feel free to moderate this down down down.
  • by Ramses0 ( 63476 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @08:35AM (#1259798)
    kuro5hin.org [kuro5hin.org] (corrosion) lets readers moderate the submission queue. It's really neat to see it in action for the first time, (log in as a user, then go to "moderate submissions).

    As a matter of fact, the website owner hasn't been in town for half the week, and good stories are still making it to the front page. Truly a very interesting website.

    --Robert
  • Indeed. In fact, this is probably a Good Thing(TM). Seriously, MS can't expect to have a great deal of input into the project. However, what if Good Things(TM) were to somehow to drift from MS over to the project? DirectX being a good example. No, really, there's no need to worry. Really. I wonder though, how long before we DO see MS Linux? Mong.
    * Paul Madley ...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
  • Were the conversation really veered off topic was at Aboutlinux not Slashdot. Rob also has the decency to label his rant as such. He even has the decency to invite the reader to skip his diatrabe.
  • And this is news because what? Microsoft acquires another part of another company? (Yes, I AM JOKING). I'm so hurt my website www.linuxandabandofmonekys.com wasn't posted. We're going to IPO next week!
  • One minor little question, CmdrTaco:
    You stated "We don't post any submissions with the word 'Linux' or 'Microsoft.'"
    So where do all the MS/Linux stories come from? Were they submitted without mentioning the forbidden words?

    -----------------------

  • Well, wouldn't you know it. My high school campus just froze over last night. :)

    -----------------------

  • It sounds like a great idea - have moderators narrow down the field of early submissions. If neccesary, pass on the resulting short list to Taco and Hemos, who would then choose what to post.

    This would result in alleviating several problems:

    1. The workload on Hemos, Taco, and the others would decrease. Right now, they have to wade through 3000+ submissions a week. Imagine how many of those are _duplicates_. This number would be greatly decreased if the topics had been extensively picked over and streamlined by the time they got to them.

    2. Because of this increase in efficiency, more daily stories could be posted. I think it would be great to see 20 or more new stories in a day, instead of a dozen or so. With the current model of story selection, 20 stories a day would mean really, really long workdays for the /. team. Let willing participants (presumably those in good karmic standing, etc. etc..) assume some of the load.

    2. This degree of participation in Slashdot would be a nice extension of the already significantly democratic nature of the place. I know I would be intersted in contributing more to the selection of stories - wouldn't you?

    Remember, in The Cathederal and the Bazaar, what Eric Raymond said about the "Delphi Effect?"

    He said:
    "the averaged opinion of a mass of equally expoert (or equally ignorant) observers is quite a bit more reliable a predictor than that of a single randomly-chosen one of the observers."


    It will work.
    -chris

    .
  • And a side-note, we love you really Rob. It's just.. so many readers, so many page hits.. it's not like you couldn't afford to post a couple more articles each day. Reply if you want. :)
  • The subject of this article looked like "Microsoft Will Own Part of Core!"

    Too bad I read it wrong, I figured *that* was the reason core kept dumping on me.

    Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
  • Okay, please, somebody just moderate this down (offtopic), but I wanna make my own little rant here.

    First and foremost, lemme say Thank God that it wasn't Hemos that made that rant. Then, not only would I have to put up with all the bitching ABOUT the rant, but also that bitching about the SPELLING in the rant.

    I'd like to take this time (and waste this karma) to say a few things I've been keeping to myself, trying not to flame while browsing the archives of Slashdot.

    • First - If you don't like the way Slashdot does something, do it yourself. This is one of the foremost principles of OSS. Complete customizability. Slash code [slashcode.com] is available. Go get it and make your own damn site that doesn't have anything for anyone to complain about.
    • Remember, if you don't like the way Hemos spells or whatever, IT'S NOT YOUR SITE! No matter how much money they came into, or how "PROFESSIONAL" you expect this site to be, it doesn't have to. It's THEIR site, they can do whatever the hell they want to with it. If they want to make it a military site for a day with embedded midi files and candy cane coloring and animated oompa loompas, THEY CAN. The site belongs to them. People make mistakes, I like the fact that I can come to a site that isn't so refined it can't own up to any of them. Some of us are endeared by the 'not-so-professional' touch they impress upon us.
    • For those of you bitching about how the rant should have been placed elsewhere, or anywhere but where it was, I can't argue with you. Maybe that wasn't the best place for it. HOWEVER, you obviously didn't notice Rob's warning:

      If you don't care, just skip below and start reading comments.

      That should have been just enough to shut the lot of you up, yet it still wasn't. Oh well, some people have nothing better to do than bitch. I know I'm not setting a shining example, but I'm tired of having to wade through the "anti-Slashdot" crap attached to every fucking article. Get over yourselves. If you don't like it, leave, or do it yourself.

      Not even worth two cents,
      Later...

  • by Crixus ( 97721 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @09:23AM (#1259809)
    OK, so if MS owns 4% of Corel because of this deal, how much of Corel does the NSA now own for being in cahoots with MS?

    :-)

  • Nah, he should have posted it as a comment to this article. Then we could have had fun moderating him down as -1 Offtopic.
  • I would have thought that this was a good idea were it not for the fact that moderation of submissions could be pretty clueless. A lot of moderators aren't experts in a given field and therefore don't know the issues well enough to distinguish between insight and bullshit.

    Plus, you have the additional editorial nighmare that if a misleading article gets moderated through and the editors subsequently decide to reject it,then all hell of a flamewar would break loose.

    In general, I think the Slashdot editors do a damn fine job. They can't please everybody all the time, but when I see an article I'm not interested in the I simply ignore it rather than complaining.

    People who get stressed about the editorial policy of a light-hearted geek news site really should get a life.
  • By itself, this is pretty meaningless. However, if Microsoft winds up pursuing this as a larger strategy, it could wind up being very significant. There are similarities between that sort of strategy and Microsoft's method of dealing with Apple. Microsoft has to make certain that competitors are on the market to alleviate concerns about a MS monopoly... if they can make sure that they'll be making a modest profit from their competitors' business, as they did with Apple, it strengthens their overall position.
  • From article, Conversion
    Each share of Series C Stock is convertible, at the option of the holder, after the satisfaction of a two year holding period or upon liquidation of the Company, into fully paid and non-assessable shares of Common Stock based upon a fixed conversion ratio. The conversion ratio is subject to certain adjustments, stock splits or other capital reorganizations.

    Non-assessable, I believe, means that it is held in trust and not votable. I could be wrong here, but I am VERY vertain thait this is not they case. My estimates of the value of the the Microsoft "investment" is 12%. Given that the investment was ONLY $25m, it seams unlikely that Inprise would give out such large chunks of the company for SO little money. I don't think that the deal gives Microsoft everything. Additionally, reserving that many shares for convertion doesn't mean that that is the conversion ratio. It could be 10:1 even with 10,000:1 reserved... reserved != issued
  • by alexhmit01 ( 104757 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @08:49AM (#1259814)
    Like every other deal that involves a lawsuit, a "fair value" amount is assigned to the IP, and what should be punitive damages becomes an "investment" in non-voting preferred stock.

    Non voting stock in this case is nearly worthless. If the company goes bankrupt, preferred stock members receive claims to the liquidation before common stock holders, for tech companies, BFD. Additionally, most preferred stock (traditionally) included guaranteed dividends and they were to be paid before any common stock paid dividends. Now, with low capital gains tax rates, dividends rarely exist. Additionally, this "investment" probably didn't include any dividend rights. It may not even involve liquidation claims.

    Microsoft does NOT really own any of Corel/Inprise, nor does it REALLY own any of Apple. This is a way of settling law suits off the books.

    The reason for this has to do with accounting practices. IANAA (I am not an accountant), but as I understand corporate finance, everything has to go on the books somewhere. The settlement for IP can go on the books as an asset, the technology rights. However, if it were overpriced, it would be fraudulent accounting. The rest can go in as an asset now, because it represents ownership of sorts. This allows companies to settle court cases without screwing up their books. On paper, Microsoft didn't "lose" $25 million, they spent $25m to get $25m in assets. I don't know how companies handle punitive damages from lawsuits. My guess is that it shows up as a loss, which isn't good.

    This way, Inprise and Microsoft's balance sheets are unchanged (cash assets -> other assets) which is good for Microsoft an encourages them to settle. It is good for Inprise because as an investment, it isn't subject to taxes (to my knowledge). Microsoft's cash flow drops, Inprise's rises. For a real business, cash flow is MUCH more important than the balance sheet. The balance sheet affects taxes and corporate reports, cash flow affects the ability to conduct business.

    Alex
  • How often has Microsoft made a deal with a company, only to turn around a year later and compete directly with them (successfully and unsuccessfully). MS seems to have the policy of getting all buddy-buddy with a company, checking out their operation, their ideas, their software, and then turning around the next year and slamming them to the ground. Just ask Netscape, AOL, and Real about that.

    So I'm just waiting to see when Microsoft turns around with a product to directly compete against Inprise's product, and suffocate them with their already powerful stranglehold on the market.

  • Hay Taco, If you want to rant about something.. why don't you just rant about something. Sticking it in with a completely unrelated Microsoft post is really really lame man.

    On a related note... I think you'll see more and more of MS getting into the Linux game. They have everything to gain and nothing to loose. Anyone with their eyes open can look around and see that there is money in dem dar hills. A fabulous source of NEW money even.


    They are a threat to free speech and must be silenced! - Andrea Chen
  • MS has voting stock, though.

    When Inprise was purchased by Corel, MS' stock was converted into common stock.

    When I mentioned that the shares apparently won't vest until June 2001, she was kind enough to inform me that their agreement with Microsoft had a clause that at change of ownership the Class-C shares vest and become convertible.

    So, while you probably are right in general, in this case, MS actually does own 4%.

    Unless I'm misinterpreting things (I'm not a business person by any stretch of the imagination).
  • <RANT> I need to get something off my chest a minute. If you don't care, just skip this (don't bother moderating) and start reading more comments having nothing to do with this article.

    Why is it that some moderators are such asses (and please note, that "some" is perhaps just one a week) about having their opinions become part of unrelated articles on Slashdot? Last week Slashdot posted about 75 stories and two of them contained offtopic opinions in the article. So why is it that sometimes when someone gets the ability to write an article, they have to go attack Slashdot users? It becomes a conspiracy: favoritism, Rob not caring, Slashdot really sucking these days, the list goes on and on, but it never mentions the real reason.

    The fact is that posters are allowed to post their opinions, just like the authors. The moderators can only moderate down a fraction of all submissions. But they can't moderate down any submission that comes from the Author of the article. Just because a user can't understand why Slashdot rejected a submission doesn't mean there was a reason, it just means that when it was submitted, no one felt like posting it. |Everyone want Slashdot to be a fun mix: stuff that matters. Legos? Linux? Black Holes? Nanotech? If Slashdot was all serious, many of us wouldn't enjoy reading it or posting to it.

    But I see articles all over with these childish little notes on them: "Why is it that some people are such asses...)".

    The personal attacks get old Taco; they hurt because we all work so hard making Slashdot happen each day... and attacking us because we didn't agree with your attitude doesn't make our visits filled with joy.

    And that's why I like Jon Katz. If he wants to rant he does it in a separate article. He doesn't subvert a decent piece of news like a Grits poster.

    -----

  • Agreed. Do it. Or somebody will do slashdot-sucks.com. The domain is available.
  • "But some folks figured it would make the two companies seem more credibly like "Linux companies" to some investors who are only looking at keywords, so they let it go through."

    You've missed a few events. Corel's single deal with PC Chips to distribute 20 million copies of Corel Linux more than doubled the number of Linux OS's distributed, overnight making Corel/Debian without question and by far the largest Linux distribution. You're also overlooking where every cent of Corel's R&D budget has been going for the last two years, and a good portion of it before that developing the Netwinder. It's been Linux, and even if you don't like the idea of an easy-to-use Linux, it doesn't make it a bad idea from a financial perspective.

    You're also forgetting which company was the first brand name software company to break ranks and embrace Linux, triggering the exodus of the other big software companies from Win32 to Linux.

    And what's wrong with the fit between Corel and Borland/Inprise? Novell bought QuattroPro from Borland, and Corel inherited it from Novell. Corel has been licensing Paradox from Borland for years. Corel has a crying need for a powerful, networkable PIM to unify its applications and hasn't been able to put it together. (Thank Novell for keeping WordPerfect Office, now Groupwise.) A company with database expertise like Borland can do wonders for Corel, and Corel with its graphics and productivity apps can build the market for Borland's database and development tools. And Corel's ownership interests in Rebel.com and Graphon get Borland favored access to Sun's biggest Canadian SPARC/Solaris distributor and Graphon's thin-client software connectivity among Win32, Linux, Unix, and the Mac. The fit looks good from here.

    The stark truth is that Corel is the only Linux company that has a realistic potential to become very large very quickly. It has the marketing channels, it has the engineers, it has the experience of going nose to nose with Microsoft. None of the other Linux plays even has the management structure to become a Linux commercial bohemoth.

    I wish RedHat, VA, and the other Linux high flyers nothing but the best, but none of them have anything going other than prayer that rationalizes their current inflated market caps, not even reasonable expectations of future earnings. It's ironic to me that Corel, the only company actually poised to become a Linux giant and return value to its stockholders, has been trading at a small fraction of the other Linux play's market prices.

    It's even more ironic to see people hinting that Corel is not in fact a Linux company. In fact, Corel/Borland easily has more engineers developing Linux products than any other software company. Their commitment to the platform is real.

    Paul Merrell, pem@televar.com http://www.qwkscreen.com/WPLinuxLinks.html
  • Well, we already have RMS-Linux (aka GNU/Linux), so why not MS-Linux?
  • Uh well maybe not but I really don't see any significance in this.

    This migth be a bad thing for wine though
  • We should have all seen this coming. What with all these companies participating in the wild orgy of mergers, somebody was going to get into trouble.

    And look what happened: Corel carelessly hooked up with Imprise and less than one month into the affair, we find out it's contracted M$.

    This is not the carefree "free merger" days! Today there are many incorporation-transmitted diseases,and with the debilitating M$ at an all time high, no company should merge without proper protection.

  • Microsoft has DIVESTED their Inprise holdings. THIS IS OLD NEWS!


  • <I>and now i'm going to have to search through comments pertaining to rob's rant</I>

    And now that you have had your post about Rob's rant moderated to +4 I will not only have to search through your post but also through other post ranting about the abondance of post about Rob's rant.

    Anyway, if this (or a similar post) get moderated up I may also have to go through posts ranting about having to go through post ranting about going through post talking about Rob's rant, which probably will provoke somebody to post a rant about going through... Looks like an infinite loop ;)

  • What happens when someone who works for a given company wants to post a story that talks about something that's not all positive about given company?

    Simple, he create a fake e-mail using hotmail/Yahoo/... and then create a /. account with this e-mail.

    you may say that it shows that it won't stop Trolls from posting dumb stories because they can create an account just for it and you would be right, but remember that the goal of a security system isn't so much to be unbreakable but to be hard enough to break that 99% will just stop trying, if it is made harder to troll then less people will troll, but we must not make it impossible because it would make some things impossible to do anonymously for non-trolls.

    BTW, he could also ask a friend to post it for him.

  • Okay, as far as #2 goes, fine, things take time. But that's not what the FAQ says. And here's a solution to #1:

    Only /. officials can see the queue at first. But instead of having two options (accept / reject), give them three (accept / reject / defer). That way, they can reject all the completely, utterly worthless crap, but anything remotely marginal gets dumped to a public queue.

    Another solution is to forbid anonymous posting of stories, I can understand that Rob don't want to ban AC but do we really need them for stories? After all you are just giving a link to a story written by somebody else. This wouldn't stop trolling in story posting but would limit it.

  • In other words, a minority stake in the company, not enough to "rule the world", so lets not hype this to be more than it is worth, ok /.'ers ?
  • The rant is on topic because originally at the top of the linked article there was a statement from the author saying that he was pissed because his submission got rejected by Slashdot. I just checked and now that comment is gone.

    Andrew
  • With all the rumblings of MS looking and taking serious the Linux threat, and Corel's annoucement of Linux being a big part of their future, the real question becomes...

    Will they keep that 4% share?
  • Right on, good sir. I'm newish to this site, and I think it's downright silly to complain that your story didn't get accepted! I LOVE this site! There is no doubt in my mind that the people who run this site are just very cool. I mean, seriously, what kind of axe could any of our friendly editors have to grind with any posters? It's nothing personal to y'all - jd already hit that by pointing out the slim odds of getting a post accepted. Let's just have fun, and talk about stuff that matters. That's what we're all about, eh?

    "The world doesn't really need more busy people, maybe not even more intelligent people. It needs 'deep people'..." -Don Postema"

  • Do you think Linus, Alan et. al. will accept kernel submissions in VB?

Overflow on /dev/null, please empty the bit bucket.

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