Journal smittyoneeach's Journal: I guess ObamaCare isn't doing well 46
The codpiece media has been permitted to utter the word ' Benghazi '.
Sure, it's a limited hangout, but still. Daring to open the potential for justice in the case of Stevens, Smith, Doherty & Woods says a lot.
Sure, it's a limited hangout, but still. Daring to open the potential for justice in the case of Stevens, Smith, Doherty & Woods says a lot.
and back to your regularly scheduled conspiracy (Score:2)
You seem anxious to hang Obama for the Benghazi event, even though you're not willing to give a valid legal reason for doing so. I'm trying to figure out the conspiracy theory here. How d
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I am a little curious on this one myself, although you could have tried to phrase it a little less caustically.
So far as I can see the big mistake was invading Libya to begin with, once that chunk is swallowed the rest of it seems pretty minor.
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I am a little curious on this one myself, although you could have tried to phrase it a little less caustically.
Perhaps, though smitty has been calling up the great Benghazi boogeyman for some time now. He hasn't yet explained what he actually wants to happen (other than the impeachment, removal, tar and feathering, and public execution of Obama for the detailed and highly constitutional reason of "because I said so") from an investigation. Many people - smitty being a very vocal example of them - assert that Obama is somehow personally responsible for what happened. Being as they refuse to give a reason to expla
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We know, as a matter of fact, that Obama lied about the reasons for what happened there. It seems likely that, given the circumstances, he did so to try to paper over a scandal -- that the U.S. screwed up and allowed an ambassador and other Americans to die through its incompetence -- so that it wouldn't hurt him in the presidential election.
You may call that pretty minor. I don't, and I think most Americans don't. I think it's a damned big deal.
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If it were substantiated, it might be very significant (though still really minor in the sense that other screwups have cost a lot more money and lives.) But I have yet to see convincing evidence on it as well. Seems mostly rumor and innuendo. Possibly I am just missing critical facts.
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Well, again, we know he was lying. That's been substantiated, not to 100%, but well beyond reasonable doubt. The government knew from the beginning it was not "the video," yet he and his people and his media minions spun it as being caused by "the video" for weeks. And Rice very clearly knew that there were at least strong reasons to believe it wasn't the video, but she pushed the video story repeatedly.
As to the reasons why he and his people lied, there's some evidence, but nothing very compelling other
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[missing citation]
So? I don't have to cite everything I say. If you honestly have good reason to not believe this, please explain, and I'll consider spending my valuable time providing the evidence. But anyone who's followed this knows that the administration knew it wasn't the video, and knows that they said for weeks that it was. You merely saying I didn't provide the evidence isn't a compelling reason for me to do so. This isn't Wikipedia, and I assume that the participants in the discussion aren't morons and underst
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You are trying to level allegations against someone of lying.
I accused someone of lying, yes.
To make such allegations you need to show not only that what they said was untrue, but that they knew it to be untrue.
Well, I need to have evidence of that, yes.
The first is not difficult, but the second is a rather high goal.
Sure.
It may be that the person who asked you for a citation would like to know how you would know what was known, when.
Perhaps. I wouldn't know their motivations, and won't guess.
Running around saying "I don't need a citation" or "everybody knows X Y and Z" is quite simply not in any way answering their request.
They made no request. They implied I had an obligation to provide evidence for every claim I make in a Slashdot comment, which is obviously untrue. I did explicitly make note that they may actually want to know what the evidence is; and if so, they can feel free to demonstrate that.
If you have a source to show that the person who made the false statement knew it to be false when they said it, that would be news to a lot of people.
Not anyone who's been following, but sure, the timeline hasn't been widely reported.
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Who is "us"? I am unconvinced you want to actually know what's going on, largely because I have no idea who you are, and whether you are even a preexisting participant in this conversation.
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Us would be the people in this discussion. I am not the only person who has asked you for information.
I don't know that you asked me for any information at all.
Why would I have asked if I did not want an answer?
If you don't know that, you must be new to the Internet. People often do this, just so they can argue and be combative. We call them "trolls."
I was interested in the actual answer as well so I replied.
I am unaware of you replying before this.
What difference does that make?
Because in my experience, you are most likely one of the aforementioned trolls.
I'm not saying I won't answer, I am just trying to find out if it is worth my time.
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That is the value of the anonymous coward.
Also the drawback.
How many cowards are replying to you? It doesn't really matter. All that matters is that questions have been asked and you have so far not chosen to reply to them.
No, that's incorrect. If the motives of the person asking are relevant -- and to me, they are -- then it does matter, and by posting as an A.C., you reduce the chances of demonstrating that it is worth my time to respond to the question.
You are entitled to your opinion but I have not been intentionally combative.
I didn't imply you had been.
I have only been asking questions of you that come from statements you have made here in this discussion.
If you say so. I cannot verify you've asked any questions (except "How many cowards are replying to you?").
Why would asking a question be trolling when it relates to the topic of discussion?
You clearly don't understand trolling, and I am uninterested in explaining it. Shrug.
I asked for something that you described as being factual; you should be able to easily produce the factual answer.
I am, but it will take time and ef
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We are led to understand at this point that you are unwilling to answer the question.
Not by a rational examination of anything I've said or done -- or not done -- no.
It matters not who asked you what question when
Incorrect.
Right now, I am again asking you to provide a reason to believe that President Obama was intentionally lying to the American people when discussing Benghazi.
And through your irrational attack on me at the beginning of this comment, you're exhibiting evidence you're a troll in doing so, which does, in fact, matter.
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No attack was made on you.
The commenter called me a liar. Shrug.
It was simply an observation of the fact that you are not answering questions and the likely motivation behind that evasion.
The commenter made up a false conclusion of "liklihood" based the evidence does not support.
I saw no evidence of trolling in the comment you replied to.
Shrug.
I saw evidence of you evading questions and a well supported hypothesis of why.
You are incorrect: it had no support.
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Can you show where that explicitly happened?
I didn't say it was explicit. You apparently, incorrectly, think I implied it was explicit ... which means you recognize that some meanings are implicit, even though your belief that I meant it was implicit isn't such an example.
You have been asked many questions and provided almost no answers.
And I've given good reasons why.
Evidence exists in support of your evading questions.
The old proverb about pearls and swine is excellent evidence in support.
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No, you did not imply.
False.
You did not state the commenter implied you were a liar, you stated the commenter called you a liar.
True.
You crossed from implicit to explicit with your word choice.
False.
False. You gave reasons, but they were not good.
False. And since you've provided nothing against my reasons, they stand.
They were just excuses for you to evade giving answers.
You're lying, and in doing so, you are giving extremely strong evidence for my reasons, which you said were not good.
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So you admit that you said they called you a liar.
Of course I did. And of course, they did.
In other words, you were being literal.
They literally, though not explicitly, called me a liar. Yes.
You didn't say they said you were like a liar or suggesting you were lying, you said directly that they called you a liar.
Yes. They did.
Except, of course, they didn't.
False.
I agree that your excuses were not adequate
Shrug. You're incorrect.
In fact it appears at this point that you are alone in your assertion of your excuses being adequate.
Well, it is me versus no one, so ...
Plus, I've already provided the evidence.
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you're not willing to give a valid legal reason for doing so
We pay the man. You're saying we can't call him to account? Why not?
The people can be groped by the TSA, squeezed by the IRS, forced to buy unwanted insurance by HHS, but the one thing the peasants must not, CANNOT do, is ask for a full accounting of why Americans were Left. To. Die. under fire? And then our government, which, again, we're paying, throws a guy in the joint and blames his wretched video?
And you expect folks to just forget?
Really?
When the incompetent knob of a Secretary of State, Hillary
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you're not willing to give a valid legal reason for doing so
We pay the man. You're saying we can't call him to account? Why not?
Hold him accountable for what? What did he do? What reason do you have to hold him personally accountable for what happened? How could he have prevented it? It was a terrible incident but why is he to be held uniquely responsible for it when past top executives have not been held accountable for insurgency-driven deaths?
Your just being a hyperpartisan again. If there was an (R) in office instead of a (D) you would have forgotten about it by September the 13th at the very latest. Instead now more
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Hold him accountable for what? What did he do?
I thought you were averting your gaze, to protect someone. Are you asking for honesty and accountability? We know for sure he has, either directly or through surrogates, lied about this. We had the spectacle of Candy Crowley diving on the grenade at the Presidential debate.
justice is non-partisan.
You say that, but you don't mean it.
That is particularly ugly. But I forgive you. At least you didn't call me 'racist'.
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Hold him accountable for what? What did he do?
I thought you were averting your gaze, to protect someone.
I'm not protecting anyone. I'm just pointing out that your conspiracy theory is rooted entirely in hyperpartisanship and so far as you have shown to date, completely devoid of any factual basis for the public execution that you are calling for.
We know for sure he has, either directly or through surrogates, lied about this.
When you accuse someone of lying with such certainty you are claiming that they intentionally gave untruthful statements and knew facts that were counter to what they said. That is a very steep allegation to make, and one that if you could back up with factual inf
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If the POTUS were an (R) instead you would have forgotten about Benghazi long ago.
Total counterfactual. Benghazi is as forgotten as Iran-Contra, that shining moment of Reagan's, only Ronnie didn't hang Brave. Men. Out. To. Die.
I don't know why you keep trying to play that card even though race is not part of this matter at all.
I was saying that you had not, in much the same way as I could have said you had not played the Nazi card, or the KKK card. .Sarah Palin, to put a name o
Your saying that I played the race card is fully as valid as saying I'd've forgotten Benghazi if there had be a similar Republican no-talent rodeo clown elected. Let's say. .
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I'm going to have to forgive you again.
I'm not sure what you're forgiving me for...
If the POTUS were an (R) instead you would have forgotten about Benghazi long ago.
Total counterfactual. Benghazi is as forgotten as Iran-Contra
Iran-Contra could be linked directly to a decision made by Reagan. I have yet to see the attack in Benghazi being linked directly to a decision made by President Lawnchair.
only Ronnie didn't hang Brave. Men. Out. To. Die.
How exactly did President Lawnchair do such a thing? Please, be more specific.
I don't know why you keep trying to play that card even though race is not part of this matter at all.
Your saying that I played the race card is fully as valid as saying I'd've forgotten Benghazi if there had be a similar Republican no-talent rodeo clown
First of all, I am not accusing you of playing the race card. Rather, you are using a new card that is quite fashionable amongst deeply partisan conservatives such as yourself, we could call it the "stop calling
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I have yet to see the attack in Benghazi being linked directly to a decision made by President Lawnchair.
If you don't think the Nakoula treatment is probable cause, then you probably don't think BHO was lying when he talked about keeping your health care. I also have bad news about the tooth fairy.
How exactly did President Lawnchair do such a thing? Please, be more specific.
I'd liefer a grand jury do that; why Boehner is rejecting HR36 is, itself, a tell.
Rather, you are using a new card that is quite fashionable amongst deeply partisan conservatives such as yourself, we could call it the "stop calling me a racist" card. While it has a word in it derived from the word race, it is actually more closely related to the old "when did you stop beating your wife?" question in that it is actually designed not to aid a discussion but rather to pull attention away from it and frustrate people into forgetting the topic of the same.
So now you seem to accuse me of begging the question? I am in awe. Absolutely nobody, NOBODY, can give it the mental gymnastics you can. [golf clap]
Second, the rodeo clown bit is not amusing.
Your attention is drawn to your own use of "President Lawnchair" above. I expect you to
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I have yet to see the attack in Benghazi being linked directly to a decision made by President Lawnchair.
If you don't think the Nakoula treatment is probable cause
As best I can find, Nakoula wasn't outed (as the producer of The Innocence of Muslims) until the day after the Benghazi attack. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise then the only way to link his being outed (as he was not regarded in any direct way by the white house prior to that) would be if someone was doing some time travel.
then you probably don't think BHO was lying when he talked about keeping your health care
I'm not sure how the two relate. That said, if you want to accuse him of lying, I request you give a reason to believe that he would have said that knowing it to not be true. Be
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Please, please, please: accuse ME again of being hyperpartisan. Because, compared to you, I got nothin'.
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Let me understand this correctly: four men die, the Administration rolls out a pile of hooey about a video
This is where our primary different exists. You, seeing a (D) in the white house, view the statement as an intentional lie even though no evidence exists to support that notion - or at the very least, you have not provided any. I, on the other hand, see it as the initial assessment of the situation, which was released because they had nothing better to provide to the press.
Nakoula is jailed
He was jailed for violating the terms of his probation. What is wrong with that? That is, after all, what probation generally mean
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This is where our primary different exists. You, seeing a (D) in the white house, view the statement as an intentional lie even though no evidence exists to support that notion - or at the very least, you have not provided any.
Sure.
He was jailed for violating the terms of his probation. What is wrong with that?
OK
You can accuse them of whatever you want, and clearly you will as this is your favorite conspiracy theory currently going.
Yep.
No. What I am saying is that you don't have evidence to support your allegations.
Uh-huh.
Your comments show it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Right.
I have no idea. . .
Correct.
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Having reviewed the evidence, I concur with the analysis that, 100 years ago, the feedback loops that stabilized our political/economic system were tampered with, and we see the fruit today.
Thus, a no-talent rodeo clown can substantially run an administration like a refined of third-world junta [wikipedia.org], and our weakened system, says, in effect, nothing.
Meanwhile, on social media sites, sad little sycophants shrilly defend the indefensible.
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Your accusation of not having thought is truly boring.
It might bore you, but to date you have not provided evidence of your allegations. This leaves no logical conclusion but hyperpartisanship as your drive to make a big deal out of your chosen events and conspiracy theories. If you would be willing to say why you feel that some terrible and intentional act was committed by the administration I could drop my allegations against you. Yet you keep going to back to essentially saying that because he is of a different party than your own he is inherently evil
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Meanwhile, on social media sites, sad little sycophants shrilly defend the indefensible.
Is there a specific example you have in mind for that?
Sure. [slashdot.org]
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Meanwhile, on social media sites, sad little sycophants shrilly defend the indefensible.
Is there a specific example you have in mind for that?
Sure.
First of all, I'm not defending anything. I cannot defend something when I don't know what the charges are. So far you have failed to make a case for charges as your assertion of lying is based simply on acceptance of your assertion and nothing else. I have asked you several times to explain why you feel that President Lawnchair lied abut Benghazi and not once have you given factual basis to support your assertion. I cannot possibly defend against a claim of "he's guilty because I said so", nor can I d
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Dude, ya got zinged
Zinged? I'm honestly not sure what you are referring to.
and your pompous objections
What exactly do you think I am objecting to? I'm still just trying to get really basic information from you. You want the president evicted and executed for "lying" but you are unwilling to give a reason to believe that he was knowingly lying. It doesn't matter that you have an army of Tea Partiers who all believe the exact same thing, criminal law is not a popularity contest.
Considering Benghazi happened last September, I have probably been
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However you are calling for the omission of the trial and sentencing phase so that you can skip straight to execution.
Lord, help this man.