Journal FroMan's Journal: Not what is meant... 18
I cannot imagine this is what is meant to pray for your leaders.
It is a shame that someone would take upon themselves a congregation and lead them so poorly. This man is not following the scripture. David prayed for his enemies, even the king. We are commanded repeatedly to pray for our leaders in the new testament.
Lord God in heaven, may your will be done in all things. Give us all grace and cover our sins. Lead us according to your will, teach us what is right, that we may be used for your glory. Help us to humbly submit to those you have put over us, acknowledging that your hand is over all creation. Give our leaders wisdom to set a righteous example before us and all the Earth. Bend their will to your own to that righteousness may abound in our land that we might be a light and example as a nation in this world for your glory and praise.
Even that prayer, as feeble as it might be, is how we should pray for our leaders. To pray for their suffering or death is not how Christians are called to pray.
I have no love for Obama's policies. He cares not for the most innocent lives, and is pushed and pulled by many who desire to continue or expand abortion in this country. His policies have rewarded some of the most corrupt constituencies in our country. He is trying to force great changes on our nation which would our founder would abhor. For all that he earns my prayer, not my hate. I will fight his policies where I am able and pray that he sees what is right.
expand abortion? (Score:3, Insightful)
However from my point of view, reversing Roe v Wade or doing anything else to outlaw abortion will in the end be more an action against the lower income segments of our population; after all most of the rest of the free world has legalized abortion and the wealthy girls can always travel to those countries if they need an abortion for themselves. Meanwhile the girls from un-wealthy families will be left to choose between coat hangers in back alleys or giving birth against their will.
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I don't really care what your position is on abortion. You may think it is a good thing, but as Isaiah 5:20 points out, it is nothing new.
To address your question, yes Obama's goals are to expand the number of abortions:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/index.html [cnn.com]
This year he reversed the "Mexico City policy" which prevented federal funding to NGOs promoting or providing abortion services. This will increase abortions provided and on the tax payer dime.
While no link, with Obama pushing
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This year he reversed the "Mexico City policy" which prevented federal funding to NGOs promoting or providing abortion services. This will increase abortions provided and on the tax payer dime.
I think you are mistaking the act of making abortions available with the supposed act of promoting or increasing them. Just because they are available does not mean that they are intending to increase their frequency. The same logical fallacy applies to people who believe that making them illegal will in some way prevent them from ever happening.
with Obama pushing for nationalized health care in the US
I wish that statement was true. However he is doing his job - as in allowing congress to pass legislation - and national health care will not happen any time s
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However from my point of view, reversing Roe v Wade or doing anything else to outlaw abortion will in the end be more an action against the lower income segments of our population;
From my point of view, doing anything to enable abortion will in the end be more an action against the less born segments of our population.
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From my point of view, doing anything to enable abortion will in the end be more an action against the less born segments of our population
I don't see how that statement differs significantly from the errant assumption that abortions won't happen if they are outlawed.
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And I do not see how your thought that laws should only be made if they won't be broken is congruent with a lawful society.
Abortion will occur regardless of the legality. Murder will happen whether it is illegal or not. Tax evasion is unlawful, but it still occurs.
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Abortion will occur regardless of the legality
I'm glad that we found something we agree on.
However, if abortion opponents realize that abortion will happen regardless of the legality, then what is their intent with regards to outlawing it?
Murder will happen whether it is illegal or not. Tax evasion is unlawful, but it still occurs.
I would say that murder and tax evasion have more in common with each other than either does with abortion.
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I'm glad that we found something we agree on.
However, if abortion opponents realize that abortion will happen regardless of the legality, then what is their intent with regards to outlawing it?
Are you seriously arguing that we ought to make murder and tax evasion lawful? Whether you realize it or not, that is your argument.
I would say that murder and tax evasion have more in common with each other than either does with abortion.
And hence why you are on my foes list. I hope I never become stupid enough to
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I'm glad that we found something we agree on.
However, if abortion opponents realize that abortion will happen regardless of the legality, then what is their intent with regards to outlawing it?
Are you seriously arguing that we ought to make murder and tax evasion lawful?
No, and I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
Whether you realize it or not, that is your argument.
Correction, that is your interpretation of my argument.
At no point did I suggest that we should legalize anything that is currently banned.
I would say that murder and tax evasion have more in common with each other than either does with abortion.
And hence why you are on my foes list
Well, I am glad you are kind enough to admit that you are single-minded enough to foe me over disagreement on a single issue.
I hope I never become stupid enough
Kind sir, I sincerely appreciate you answering my earlier question about what abortion opponents hope to accomplish my outlawing abortion. It is so much more clear now.
to think ending a life, within the mother or not, is even remotely on the same scale as tax evasion.
So are you then in
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I don't see how that statement differs...
I don't see how you could think that I'd expect you to see it as differing. That is, if you think the unborn being people with rights is errant, which I presume you do, then of course you'll see that as no differently than (your (mis?)characterization of) one of pudge's points, seeing them both as errant. So why would you think that I'd think it would be any other case?
All I was doing was returning the "appeal to sympathy for the weaker of our society" serve, so to s
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if you think the unborn being people with rights is errant, which I presume you do
You're presumption is inaccurate, at least if you want your statement to be fulfilled in an absolute black-and-white manner. I do, however, place the mother's rights above the rights of the unborn. I also object to the state making decisions for the mother when the state should not be involved. I furthermore object to the state ever taking the stance of punishing women for being raped, which is one outcome that could arise from an outright ban on abortion.
no differently than (your (mis?)characterization of) one of pudge's points
I don't think Pudge is in this conversation. I
Whoa there (Score:2)
Sez you. And he's a pastor and you're just some regular schlub, so who should I listen to on this?
On a more serious note, the pastor's not really the problem. The people who'll still listen to him and fund him after he comes out with stuff like this are.
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Don't take my word for it, as a layman. Search the scriptures. Paul covers the topic multiple times.
wow (Score:2)
not at all what Jesus or Paul had in mind be praying _for_ someone. this is the whole "cooking people" vs "cooking for people" thing.
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"To Serve Man"?
It horrifies me... (Score:2)
... to see how Christ's teaching are constantly being distorted to even the diametric opposite of what they mean.
It would be perfectly fine to pray that the bad things Obama is trying to do aren't successful, but to pray for something bad to happen to him is antithetical to everything Christianity is all about. I would not rejoice were he to fall ill or be harmed in some way, as I didn't when Senator Kennedy succumbed to cancer, even though it is good for the country that he is not in the Senate any more.
T
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Well said.
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Thanks. :-)