Journal Sj0's Journal: The Prius: Still costs more than its worth. 9
It's a 2009 Ford Focus SES, a very nice vehicle. MSRP of $17,865 [1]. 7.1l/100km combined mileage [2]. Judging from the intervals so far(5000km, 10,000km), it looks like Ford wants me to change the oil every 5000km. The oil change cost me about 50 bucks.
So, I figure my annual cost of ownership this way: To own a car, I need to pay for it, I need to pay for insurance, I need gas, and I need to change the oil.
I assume that I want the 5yr, 100,000km powertrain warranty to last the whole 5 years I own the vehicle, limiting the distance travelled to 20,000km/yr. I assume gas is about a dollar per litre.
vehicle payments before taxes: $3573/yr
insurance: $2100/yr
Fuel: $1440/yr
Oil: $200/yr
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Total cost to own and operate the vehicle: $7313/yr
I bought a new car recently, and was running through the cost of ownership over the warranty period of the vehicle.
Compare to a 2009 Toyota Prius, another very nice vehicle. MSRP of $24,270 [3](This surprised me because it means the price went down considerably). 4.1/100km combined mileage [4]. The oil change interval appears to be every 8000km[5]. I'll assume the oil change will cost about the same.
So, I figure my annual cost of ownership this way: To own a car, I need to pay for it, I need to pay for insurance, I need gas, and I need to change the oil.
I assume that I want the 5yr, 100,000km powertrain warranty to last the whole 5 years I own the vehicle, limiting the distance travelled to 20,000km/yr. I assume gas is about a dollar per litre.
vehicle payments before taxes: $4854/yr
insurance: $2100/yr
Fuel: $820/yr
Oil: $125/yr
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Total cost to own and operate the vehicle: $7899/yr
Prices would need to double -- that is, they'd need to hit an average of $2.07/l ($7.8/usg) for a year for the vehicle to be a break-even deal.
I know my conclusions from this data, but feel free to form your own.
but you forgot one thing (Score:2)
what about resale value?
Re: (Score:2)
what about resale value?
A valid question. Of course depending on assumptions you make about the batteries in the Prius, the Toyota could be worth a lot more or a lot less in resale than the Focus. You need to find answers to the following, which as far as I know are still essentially unanswered questions:
Re: (Score:2)
perhaps, but the kelley blue book indicates that 8 year old priuses are still worth something:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?YearId=2001&Mileage=160000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=49&ModelId=292&PriceType=Private+Party&VehicleId=5160&SelectionHistory=5160%7C30762%7C04345%7C0%7C0%7C&Condition=Good&QuizConditions= [kbb.com]
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?YearId=2001&Mileage=160000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=15&Mo [kbb.com]
Re: (Score:2)
perhaps, but the kelley blue book indicates that 8 year old priuses are still worth something:
Not sure if that blue book value takes into account that in most states the prius batteries are only under warranty for 8 years [toyotapriusbattery.com]. Hence a 2001 Prius is your responsibility if the batteries crap out on you.
and almost $3k more than a focus. I have not checked more recent models though.
$3k is on the low side of the cost of replacing those batteries. Which would mean you could easily end up spending $6k more in direct costs on an 8 year old Prius than on an 8 year old Focus; and that would, on a really good day, get you around 30-40% better mpg.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, but you are speculating as to when they will die. they are $3000 retail to replace, and none or practically none have failed yet:
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm [howstuffworks.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, but you are speculating as to when they will die.
The 8-year warranty is just starting to run out for the first generation US Prius (2001 was the first US model year). There is no data on how far beyond 8 years the batteries can make it at this time, as the 2001 Prius used a different battery than the pre-2001 (non-US) Priuses.
they are $3000 retail to replace
If the batteries are available for $3k, that doesn't include the cost of installing them; or the cost of disposing of the old ones if you do it yourself.
and none or practically none have failed yet
It is a lie to say that none have failed. It is trivial to find cases of fa
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not buying anything.. and I said "none or practically none" which means a statistically insignificant number have died, which was reported directly in the link I posted. which also reports on the battery cost and is borne up by several other easily found links. So please don't accuse me of "lying". Read for comprehension first.
Of course we don't have data. The only way to get data is to wait until a heck of a lot have died. So far, if that is what you are waiting for, you've waited for 8 years. m
Re: (Score:2)
I said "none or practically none"
Which is inaccurate. I will accept "practically none" as there isn't much data, but saying "none" is indeed a lie.
So please don't accuse me of "lying". Read for comprehension first.
You said "none", which is a lie. The terms "none" and "practically none" are not the same. I'm not trying to abuse this, so please just admit that "none" is not accurate and we can move on.
Of course we don't have data.
So we have found something we agree on. It appears you prefer the optimistic side of the lack of data, while I prefer the more pessimistic side of the same.
you've waited for 8 years
Not me personally, I don't care for hybrids i
Re: (Score:2)
first, learn what the word "or" means.
Second, my ten year comparison included battery replacement.
Third, if you learn what the term "statistically significant" means, you might be able to actually use it to consider future trends based on current data. but apparently you just wait. Ok; wait.