Fox News: Universal health care breeds terrorists.

Today on Fox News's Your World With Neil Cavuto, National Review Online columnist Jerry Bowyer attacked Michael Moore's movie SiCKO and its positive portrayal of the health care in countries such as Britain and France. He argued that national health care systems are breeding grounds for terrorists because they are "bureaucratic." "I think the terrorists have shown over and over again...they're very good at gaming the system with bureaucracies," said Bowyer.

And if one of your guys is a jihadist, if one of your doctors is spending all the time online reading Osama bin Laden fatwas, someone's going to notice that. But the National Health Serfvice is more like the post office, you know there's a lot of anonymity, it's easy to hide in the bureaucracy.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/05/fox-news-universal-health-care-breeds-terrorists

WTF ..., again very fycking funny!

[OldHawk777]

Again Fox idiocy, does not diminish anyones stupidity
in equating nothing with something to make a clearly
ludicrous acceptable conclusion about everything to
the continued determent of USAll.

When I first saw the "Colbert Report", I said to a friend;
that guy got his routine from Rush the comic always doing
drugs, all comics do drugs, to be funnier. My friend
corrected me telling me that Colbert stole his act from
some Ms Bit__ Colter, and that if he would dress in drag
he would look like her twin and get much bett

el wrong 0

[zogger]

Most of the planets terrorists are radical fundies. Radical islamicists, radical christians, radical buddhists, radical hindus, radical jews, etc. That's pretty much the turf of what is known very loosely as far right. Then you have your radical atheists like the old stalinists and the north koreans and maoists, a fundy type belief system, almost like a religious cult, but nothing very "liberal" about them.

Personally, I used to consider myself conservative, a goldwaterite actually (worked on his election),

Re:

[jeffasselin]

Radical buddhists? They drown you in saffron robes or something? Even radical hinduism doesn't make much sense. Fundamentalism doesn't make much sense if your "religion" is polytheistic, or more of a philosophy than a devotional religion and highly tolerant of divergence in the first place.

"Fundamentalists" usually occur in those who follow creeds which are intolerant of other creeds, condemn apostasy, heresy and encourage conversion. Essentially, Islam and Christianity.

yep, sure are

[zogger]

Plenty of them out there. Do some looking around, they'll fight. Google is your friend, I can't bring you up to speed on 50 years + extensive news reading in one post. China/Tibet,Afghanistan/Burma, etc and Hindus and Moslems wipe each other out all the time, complete with full massacres, etc, heck look at kashmir, and don't forget what goes on *daily* in sri lanka. That ain't rastafarians against the jedis there mon!

Every major religion claims they are the religion of peace, and all of them engage in warfa

Re:

[RM6f9]

Please excuse me, but one thing to ask you to show me: ANY convicted terrorist a self-proclaimed Buddhist, radically fundamental or mediocre middle-of-the-road notwithstanding. The absolute worst a Buddhist will do is self-immolate in protest, and even then they are most careful not to let the flames spread to where they might harm others. Your sweeping generalization perhaps swept too far?

Re:

[zogger]

WW2, japanese, all over asia. Plenty of terror and atrocities to go around and then some. Huge mix of Shintoists and Buddhists, and a lot have dual religions there, taking some from each. Good enough example?

Re:

[RM6f9]

Shintoists aren't Buddhists. Those who commit those kinds of acts, regardless of what philosophy or belief system they may *claim* to buy into, are not representative of those who live so much closer to the common ideals upheld by the vast majority of humanity. Personally, I'm far from perfect, fully incapable of forgiving child molesters or drunk drivers, but I truly don't see how pointing fingers solves or resolves anything, especially reaching backwards 60 years to find examples.

who belongs to a religion

[zogger]

If someone claims a religion, that's it, someone outside can't claim they ain't, it's...don't have a word..not righteous of the third party to question a supernatural belief system, because it is personal to every human on the planet. Japan is half buddhist, half shinto, and from what I understand those that do practice tend to blend the two together for different purposes (I looked a lot of this up before replying to make sure I was right-I am). I think it was a legit example for my point that no mainstrea

Re:

[RM6f9]

Someone may claim anything they wish with their words - as you said, it is more about one's actions - personally, if someone claims with their words to be "X", and then commits acts completely outside of "X"'s tenets, I choose to believe their actions over their words. (Yes, I know, the above makes me a horrible representation of Buddhist philosophy).
I personally feel like those who claim to believe an "X" then commit atrocities do more harm than they will ever realize, as no matter how much third party ob

synchronicity

[vague_ascetic]

From out of the blue in other namespace that I occasionally traverse a rather timely link just appeared. No claims made as to its veracity or political point of view, but it is a decent read, and comes well-footnoted...

Michael Parenti, "Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth [michaelparenti.org]", July 2004

Re:

[zogger]

decent link, thanks

Re:

[sam_handelman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo [wikipedia.org]

And these people were never convicted, but their terrorist crimes are far more severe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_in_Sri_L anka#Abuses_by_the_government [wikipedia.org]

Although that's a buddhist government, so may not be what you had in mind.

That said, I would say that Buddhism comes closest to real pacifism among the major world religions, with fewer terrorist nutcases per capita.

thanks

[zogger]

thanks, good links, I had forgotten about those bozos. Poison gas attacks on subways would qualify as a terrorist attack in anyone's book.

And it really is the numbers as you point out-you can take most any religion, and there develops an extremist fundamental side to it that thinks everyone else is so wrong they are justified in wiping them out. It might only be a small percentage, but small groups of people are still capable of widespread damage.

Re:

[RM6f9]

Aum Shinrikyo - other than using a syllable, not Buddhist - nothing in the wikipedia entry for the sri Lankan gov't claims that they are Buddhist either, although they might so claim elsewhere - calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.
Rather like the shrub claiming to be born again, yet keeping our troops in harm's way for zero clear moral purpose. He can call himself Christian all he wants to, his actions tell me he doesn't have a clue about the new testament, forgive, turn the other cheek - What is the

you're missing the point

[vague_ascetic]

Zogger and Sam are not stating that someone who is what you believe to be a real practising Buddhist is a murdering bastard. They are saying that there are persons who have jacked Buddhism into an obscene manifestation within reality. It is the same with Christianity. You cannot war wage against humans and be a practising Christian if you follow the words that are attributed to Christ. He never said kill for me; he said suffer and die for me. It is amazing that radical right-sided Hindus, given their be

Re:

[RM6f9]

We agree. I was over-reacting. To answer your questions: "Mahayana or Theravada? Shin or Zen or Tendai? Are utilisers of Tantric artifacts Buddhists? Are believers in the enlightenment of Nichiren Shoshu real Buddhists?"
I would offer the work "One Dharma" by Joseph Goldstein, as well as Ram Dass "The Only Dance There Is": To my way of thinking the Mahayana/Theravada(Hiniyana) division is false: In working on selves returning to Self(selfless), we become the rising tide that lifts all boats. Any who follow

Re:

[vague_ascetic]

In South Korea, Monks [bbc.co.uk] have fought each other at their Temple [bbc.co.uk] over differences in leadership.

The NSA believes in the use of force to protect their temple's artifacts. I am pretty sure that in Japan, there are temple guards armed with swords. This is a sort of self-defense, but Buddhism does not imply pacifism. What I have found within the NSA in America is often a willful encouragement of materialism in their members; "chant for whatever you desire" (Nam-Myoho-{givemeacadillac OR pleasefuckme}). I am not

AuH2O in '64

[vague_ascetic]

"Personally, I used to consider myself conservative, a goldwaterite actually (worked on his election), but now since the term got sullied by you bushyrushies, I just call myself a traditional constitutionalist."

Careful, old man, you expose your much about you age here. Although not old enough to vote, my parents ran a Goldwater county campaign in 1964, and we traveled to Arizona after they voted on election day. I got to meet the Senator, briefly.

I have never fit into either side of the political bi

JFK

[zogger]

...that scenario and distrust lasted as long as JFKs election, and quite a few people questioned if he would serve rome before the US. There was a lot of debate over it. (it will reopen again if milt romney gets the R nomination, questioning his mormon religion, etc)

Right now, near as I can see, the US "serves" Mexico, Israel and China primarily. They get away with stuff that is just mind boggling, it's like those three nation's interests determine the bulk of our foreign policy.. I don't see the Vatican ha

it still percolates under the surface

[vague_ascetic]

There is still a great undercurrent of anti-Catholicism in America, found within various sects of fundamental Protestantism, often with those who also call themselves evangelicals, but presently, this is not presented in material available at the Church entryway, and there needs be a bit of digging to locate it. A few examples I just located can be seen here [cephasministry.com], another here [bible411.com], and very clearly here [pccmonroe.org]

Some other time I may be willing to properly delineate my opinion to you regarding the natural right to expatri

poor scruffy!

[zogger]

...funny movie....

Illegal immigration into the US (we will take #1 nation, Mexico, as the example) is tending to prolong, intensify and justify the thoroughly heinous way in which the top castillian families hijacked that nation and run it as a near serf state. They are willingly and forcefully demanding to export their revolutionary potential rather than..well. just cut loose with some living wages and run the nation to create a huge middle class of productive and happy people. Running a nation to perpetua

Re:

[iminplaya]

Illegal immigration into the US...

I am so bummed to see you drowning in that propaganda quicksand. I just don't know how to explain how Mexico is just another plantation, and what you are dealing with are the runaways. But that's what it is, sir. The Mexicans will not acquire any more independence from the states any more than Chile, Panama, Nicaragua, etc. ever have. Believe me they have tried, and I believe you already know what happened every time over the last 150 years. The US is not "serving" Mexico.

plantation overseers

[zogger]

If we keep rewarding the plantation overseer by absorbing and subsidizing the runaways, they will never reach the critical mass needed to overthrow the plantation system. We aren't doing anything here in the US except legitimizing that system and rewarding the already billionaires with even more profits and providing a security safety net for them.

Mexico is a fantastically rich nation, they just need to stop being dependent on the US, at the very top levels or the very bottom runaway levels. They actually c

Re:

[iminplaya]

If we keep rewarding the plantation overseer...

The plantation manager is only that, a manager. He is merely following orders issued by the plantation owner (the US/UK/whoever). The whole idea behind this is to keep wages low. That is the business the border serves to protect. It's what denial of access is all about.

Mexico is a fantastically rich nation, they just need to stop being dependent on the US...

This is where you fall down. The US simply will not allow that. It is through this dependence that you ac

I have no problem...

[zogger]

...regarding myself as a nationalist in these matters. I want what is both in my favor, and as a humanitarian, what is in the other folks favor. And it can be done without either party getting the shaft, but it can't be done on the total insistence of millions of people and their billionaire sponsors on just using brute force of numbers to achieve their goals. Sorry, that is the classical definition of an immoral and predatory invasion, war basically.

I know if the situation was reversed I wou

Re:

[iminplaya]

There might be a misunderstanding here that you believe I just want to hand everything over to the billionaires. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are the pirates I have been ragging on all these years. They are the ones using the borders to separate us. They are just having the "three way" with Canada/US/Mexico to strengthen the border at Guatemala. A much smaller, easier to control area. I want the walls to come down for regular folks to move freely. They just want to make easier to move their

Re:

[zogger]

I'd support sanctions and regime change in mexico, moreso than what they tried in Iraq. but right now, it's a one way street-into the US, and that's it. Maybe in the future we can see about eliminating borders and so on, but until then, we have to do what we have to do, and that is control the invasion before it leads to outright nasty civil war, with all the trimmings that come with that. Unfortunately, both the top R and D leaders want full integration, and the grassroots doesn't, so it will be half assed

Re:

[iminplaya]

Unfortunately, both the top R and D leaders want full integration, and the grassroots doesn't...

*Gasp!* I don't know what to say. I'm reliving the fifties and early sixties. Only this time they're on the wrong side of the river instead of the tracks.

The desire to separate, segregate people feeds right into the fatcats hands. Look, you already have an eye on the cause, but you're still going after the symptoms. I can understand the desire for relief while applying the cure, but this call for strengthening th

Re:

[vague_ascetic]

Not many Americans are aware of the aggregation of wealth in Mexico thats runs along with pure Castillian ancestry. My knowledge of this is in great measure due to my experiences in Las Vegas, which enabled me to compare and contrast the Junket tourists from Mexico City, with the immigrant workers from Mexico at the Hotel/Casinos. The difference is obviously striking, and it did not take much inquiry to figure out why. This is an ugly fact, and one that is truly a potential flashpoint which could destabil

Re:

[zogger]

Oh, I would agree to that, about who is the richest. Here's another example beyond the fiat money scamster bankers, when saddam was still in power, he wasn't considered rich for the forbes list, even though for most purposes he owned an entire rich nation.

write one up

[zogger]

write up a good article about it with references and links and I'll post it to technocrat in the politics or jobs section (closest we have to a business economy section). We get crawled by google, sometimes we even make the front page of google news links. I try to occassionaly offer something along those lines because the readers there seem to like them, as long as it isn't too often. Just the good stuff really.

There's a video along those lines but I haven't watched it yet, aaron russo's latest one, freedo

Not surprised

[Captain Splendid]

SiCKO's gonna bring out the heaviest, most vile argument. Lots of money at stake.

I'm only surprised they're not saying it more

[sam_handelman]

As soon as I saw the reports in the NYT that the terrorists had been part of Britain's health care system, I knew immediately that this would be all over the media here in the States.

  My only guess is that they focus grouped it, people said "yes we'll take socialized medicine anyway, thank you", and then decided to avoid even mentioning it. Mainstream media don't even like to admit that a health care crisis *exists*.