giverson's Journal: A Matter of Perspective

Sometimes this website bugs the hell out of me. I don't know why I come back, but for some reason I do. I think it's a sickness. I know that one might say "If you don't like it, go somewhere else!"

I guess I do know why I come back. The site is exceptionally educational. Sure, there is a lot of incorrect information. But if you read through, it's usually pretty easy to sort through the crap to find the gems. I've learned a tremendous amount from the discussions on quantum physics, and I think I've improved my job skills as a SysAdmin by reading advice/thoughts/comments from experienced IT guys.

So what irritates me? It seems that 90% of this site's posters have yet to achieve the revelation that other people can be completely reasonable and intelligent and still not agree with them. (Did that sentence suck or what?)

Don't like Macs and admit it? You'll be assaulted on every side. You'll be told how Macs are actually cheaper or how a single button mouse is proof of its superior user interface. There is not one negative you can say about a Mac without getting a response telling you how that negative is actually a positive or how it's still better than a PC.

Try saying anything positive about the United States. You will get a flood of replies telling you how that is not actually true and that you are simply a victim of (generally right-wing) propaganda. Apparently, the US is the worst country no matter what specific evil we are looking at.

Don't believe in global warming? You bought into propaganda.

Creationist? Propaganda.

The evidence that supports the views of person A is dismissed as propaganda or FUD by person B, and vice-versa.

Both, person A and B will believe ANYTHING that supports their views, no matter how ridiculus and will dismiss anything that opposes their views, no matter how damning. If pressed hard with damning evidence, the discussion degrades into "Well, it's still better than ..."

And at the end of the discussion, you look back and think "Wow, that guy is an idiot. He has been totally deceived by ... even though the evidence is clearly against that view." Want to know that the other guy is thinking? THE SAME DAMN THING!

What the bloody hell makes you sure that you are right and he is wrong? How do you know that you haven't bought into the other sides's propaganda? Sure, you've investigated for yourself. SO HAS HE! Is it so shocking that two intelligent people can come to different conclusions from the same data?

My point is simple. Most of us come into these discussions with the goal of convincing others that our viewpoint is correct. When everyone comes in with that goal, nothing is accomplished. It's just a bunch of yelling.

Instead, try to come into discussions with the goal of learning about opposing views. Try to view them with an open mind and attempt to improve yourself by increasing your knowledge on the subject. Your goal is to improve yourself and your opinions by seeing other's views. Maybe, just maybe, you'll discover that you were wrong about something.

Remember: changing your opinion is not a bad thing. It doesn't make you wishy-washy or a flipflopper. It makes you a better person.

Creationists

[Kiwi]

I generally agree with you. I think the reason that Slashdot becomes so argumentative is because people are not engaging in real human contact; people (like myself right now) who use a computer screen to interact with the world lose a lot of the human touch.

This lack of human touch makes people bitter; hence the flame wars.

That said, I don't feel that creationists have "bought in to propaganda". I think the Creationists' main problem is that they are not ready to comprehend a God which has made the Earth 4 billion years old and the universe 15 billion years old. They equate an universe older then 6000 years with Atheism.

With this kind of mindset, the person basically has to deny any and all scientific evidence which shows an old earth or an old universe. Creationism is a movement which consists of denial and rationalizations on a large scale; the crux of the Creationist's argument is "I refuse to belive in Evolution or an old earth because I can not understand evolution, and because I can not resolve God with evolution".

The problem with creationism is that it keeps people ignorant of the scientific process; one has to reject the scientific process to accept a creationist view of the universe. And, yes, when I became a Christian, I flirted with creationism, but then changed churches to one which was open-minded to evolution.

The solution to creationism, of course, is to come up with a concept of God which allows for evolution, and a 15-billion year old universe.

I have read the creationist propaganda; I have also seen every single creationist argument refuted on talk.origins [talkorigins.org].

- Sam