Journal FortKnox's Journal: Is NO worth saving/repairing? 63
I want to preface this with a "this is not about the blame game or anythign political... do that in the countless other NO JE's"
But something that wasn't talked about much and I wanted to say it. NO wasn't built in what we'd call "a prime location for a city." It is built below sea level right next to the sea. Flooding is and always will be a major concern.
Now that we know how much it will cost to rebuild the city....... should we? Would there be an advantage to simply building the city somewhere else in a better location? Or simply abandon it?
Remember... removing the water is step one. Cleaning all the bacteria and other stuff is step two (and this will be a looong step!). Rebuilding is step three (which will last years and years).
Is my thoughts completely insane?
But something that wasn't talked about much and I wanted to say it. NO wasn't built in what we'd call "a prime location for a city." It is built below sea level right next to the sea. Flooding is and always will be a major concern.
Now that we know how much it will cost to rebuild the city....... should we? Would there be an advantage to simply building the city somewhere else in a better location? Or simply abandon it?
Remember... removing the water is step one. Cleaning all the bacteria and other stuff is step two (and this will be a looong step!). Rebuilding is step three (which will last years and years).
Is my thoughts completely insane?
You make a good point. (Score:2)
Nobody.
And that's why New Orleans will be rebuilt, regardless of whether or not it should be.
Similar Thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Similar Thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Similar Thoughts (Score:2)
NOLA (Score:2)
It's *insanity* to rebuild NO as it is. Doing the same thing again u
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Re:NOLA (Score:1)
The disaster in New Orleans is far more a problem of engineering than the location. You COULD build levees that can withstand twenty foot storm surges. You COULD build levees that can withstand a category four or even five hurricane, they just DIDN'T.
Which brings us back to the original point. Designing and building such
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Someone should maybe let the Dutch know about that. A good sized hunk of their entire country is below sea level.
Re:NOLA (Score:1)
However, I have to agree with another poster's comments on just keeping the shipping ports/lanes open and letting the rest of the area revert back
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
I've seen pictures of the seawalls and floodgates in the Netherlands
Re:NOLA (Score:2)
So you're suggesting Plan B (Score:2)
Marge: I can't believe it's come to this.
Homer: Come to what?
Marge: Moving the whole town five miles down the road, it's crazy!
Homer: Yeah, it's something all right.
Re:So you're suggesting Plan B (Score:2)
Re:So you're suggesting Plan B (Score:2)
I especially like the crying indian... that kills me.
Re:So you're suggesting Plan B (Score:2)
I think NO should be the US's version.... (Score:1)
Gondolas everywhere. Homes on stilts.
Singing Italians everywhere, with a slight cajun accent.
Sweet.
Re:I think NO should be the US's version.... (Score:2)
We already have that [venetian.com]. Then again, since Vegas has already copied everyone else (NYC [nynyhotelcasino.com], Paris [caesars.com], Venice, etc...even New Orleans [orleanscasino.com], for that matter), maybe it's about time someone copied us. :-)
River + Ocean + Road = MONEY (Score:2)
Many of the components of New Orleans could be built elsewhere, but the shipping business would be hard to move.
Re:River + Ocean + Road = MONEY (Score:2)
no, you're not crazy (Score:2)
Re:no, you're not crazy (Score:2)
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/con
yes and no (Score:2, Interesting)
But that doesn't mean it has to have huge residential or commerical areas - just the port and some key transportation facilities (rail yards, interstates and the like). Let the residential areas be built a few miles further out in safer areas and build some good mass transit to the port facilities for the workers.
Re:yes and no (Score:2)
Indeed. Building industrial/commerical structures makes a lot more sense than large residential areas. Flood defenses can be built to withstand pretty much anything, the only limit is money. But preventing a Volvo from flying into a residential living room during a cat 5 hurricane will prove very difficult as well as very expensive for the individual house owner.
Re:yes and no (Score:2)
Re:yes and no (Score:1)
People are going to buy up land and build houses wherever they want, and the city council isn't going to have the guts to rezone in a way that would prevent that, or if they did they would cave as big real estate builders lure them with promises of tax revenues from having big apartment and condo and town home complexes, etc.
Money, power, corruption. It's even worse
No, Ras. (Score:1)
She were the body of iniquity, indolence, and wantonness. You recall it had an ekename, babbo? It was "The Big Easy". If really another Babylon be what they want, can they not prove it by starting from nothing?
PS. (sorry, HTML doesn't do voice effects or accents any better than I do!)
PPS. This was originally intended as just a no vote, but something came over me...
Are you kidding? (Score:2)
The question is never "should we build it". If you ask that question, the answer might be no, which would immediately remove the possibility that you would get to the second question, which is:
"How can we build it anyways, but spend a lot of time and money finding cool and technologically interesting ways to work around the serious issues that stand in the way?"
And since I'm all for anything cool and technically interesting, I can't wait to see the proposals come up. Did
Re:Are you kidding? (Score:2)
Well, the oil rigs didn't get flooded either, but... :-)
Re:Are you kidding? (Score:2)
Um, do force fields keep wind out?
Well, good thing I'm not the architect in charge, hehe...
Pix
Re:Are you kidding? (Score:1)
Not insane at all- but you're missing three things (Score:2)
2. Levees are a 19th century technology, we have MUCH better forms of flood control now. Levees will be necessary for instalation of that technology- but there's no need for them to be permanent.
3. NO is in the location that it is for sound ECONOMIC reasons unrelated to the engineering problems; in short it's the main eastern port of entry for the Midwest United States. Anything your company or farm exports, anything you buy retail in th
Re:Not insane at all- but you're missing three thi (Score:2)
I beg to differ.http://www.duluthport.com/seawayfactsus.htm l [duluthport.com]
Now true, coal and ore and grain account for 99.5% of the duluth seaport's shipping capabilities.. and most of that is exports,
Re:Not insane at all- but you're missing three thi (Score:2)
While I agree on the exports- on the imports it's different.
but hey, Duluth is 2200 miles inland, and has no right to expand it's seaway channels.. so they have no opportunity to control there fate in terms of expanded trade. but the fact is nearly 2 billion dollars worth of trade go through that port every year, so no NOLA is Not the Only route of export/import for the midwest.
Not the only one true- just the most important one for large ships that can't
Galveston in 1900 (Score:1)
Re:Galveston in 1900 (Score:2)
Some of the other stuff, less so.
If you look at two of the Levies that broke, you will notice that they are *not* levies. They are actually walls. If you bulldoze those houses and rebuild thos walls into actual levees, you really harden the city. You still have the whole "bowl" issue, but higher rim really would help turn it into a 100 year flood zone.
Tough choice (Score:2)
* From what I've heard from various sources, pretty much all wood-frame residential buildings in the flood zone will be destroyed. However, NO has a good many very old stone or part-stone houses that will probably survive without much structural damage.
* Not all of the city flooded; the areas that did not flood would have suffered "only" category 4 hurricane damage. Better yet, the high housing density apparently protected m
Re:Tough choice (Score:2)
Also redo things so that if one levee breaches it doesn't flood a huge area.
Re:Tough choice (Score:1)
A friend of mine was in Dresden for business about 6 weeks ago and said there were still parts of the city that have not been rebuilt since the Allied bombings...bombed and burned out buildings untou
Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
If you're opposed to rebuilding NO exactly as it was before Katrina, you must hate the poor [slashdot.org] who lost their homes!
They knew hurricanes were a certainty before Katrina, and now people want to rebuild in the same spot knowing that cat 4/5 hurricanes will happen again? And they want me to help them pay for their death traps with my tax money?
Can someone explain this to me, write slow and use small words. Because I don't get it.
If you weigh your options and decide that living in NO is worth the elevated risks
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:1)
Ass.
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Well, I disagree with that, but you're free to have your opinion. Crazy as it might be.
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
So everyone who can possibly be hit by a hurricane has it coming? Everyone who can get a tornado? Everyone who can get flooded? Everyone who can be effected by a volcano? Everyone in an earthquake zone?
You do realize this covers a fair number of the major cities in the US, a good sized hunk of industry, and most of the major ports?
Simple! (Score:2)
Then we'll be safe.
Re:Simple! (Score:2)
YES!! LOL!!! Does it get hot there? I hate the heat!
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Are you even reading my posts? I strongly doubt it at this point, you seem to be too occupied with ranting and emotionally charged rhetoric. Take a deep breath, calm down, and try to pay attention, this post will only take a minute or so to read.
So everyone who can possibly be hit by a hurricane has it coming? So everyone who can possibly be hit by a hurricane has it coming? Everyone who can get a tornado? Everyone who can get flooded? Everyone who can be effected by a volcano? Everyone in an earthquake zo
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
If your area gets hit by a natural disaster I'll be sure to advocate that not a red cent of Federal money gets spent on any sort of recovery or rebuilding.
After all you deserve what you get for living where you do no matter where that might be.
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
That's a pretty horrible attitude you know. One that I definitely don't share. But hey, it's your opinion to have. Just like "They had it coming" is buffer-overflowed's. I don't stand for those ideas and I think it's a despicable position.
You really don't read my posts do you? I told you were I live just a few days ago when you last showed how caring, compassionate, and progressive you are with the same promise of no
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
I suspect that to anyone who had their home destroyed by Katrina telling them that we shouldn't give them any Federal aid for rebuilding sounds exactly like "you deserve what you get for living there". Even telling them they will only get the money if they move somewhere w
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Right, you "suspect" it sounds like "you deserve what you get"... It couldn't possibly just be you and buffer-overflowed attributing things to me that I never said could it? I nev
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:1)
Oh and I gave very last red cent I had to various charities. Literally, every last red cent. Checking account balance: $0. You still have cash in your checking account, go out to see a movie lately or anything?
And if I don't know you IRL, you won't get a penny of my money. Too many people like to go about fleecing cash after a disaster.
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Right right, how silly of me. People fundamentally taking responsibility for themselves and their safety. What a crazy idea! I dunno what I was thinking there.
Oh and I gave very last red cent I had to various charities. Literally, every last red cent.
Good for you, do you want an award or something? If not, why mention that here? It's not a dick-measuring contest.
Go out to see a mov
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Big port + petrochemical industry + on key road, rail, and pipeline routes means you have a city there pretty much no matter what. People will move there for the work if nothing else.
If you weigh your options and decide that living in NO is worth the elevated risks of hurricanes and f
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
You don't get it do you?
I'm not telling anyone what to do, I just don't want to be forced to support what I think is a poor decision.
I think that the benefits of living in Florida or NO, aren't worth the risks, other people may come to other decisions, that's fine. I don't want to pay for the consequences of that decision and I don't want to assist them in placing themselves in an ob
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
For that matter a lot of people live were they do because the company that hired them had a job there or they were born there, etc.
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
If you're opposed to rebuilding NO exactly as it was before Katrina, you must hate the poor who lost their homes!
Are you saying that those who wish to rebuild exactly like it was, we then hate the poor? WTF? I don't think many people are advocating building a crappy, ancient levee system or not building up a stronger sea wall. Again without being political... There was a study done that recommended fortifying the levee systems that had the funding cut out. I'
Re:Why do you hate the poor?! (Score:2)
Ah sarcasm, how often you are missed or misunderstood.
Here's the thing. I refuse to support rebuilding NO because it's a piss poor location for residential areas. This objection causes crazy people to go on lengthy rants about how I must hate the poor or how if disaster ever strikes me they'll be sure to remember it...
So hating the poor was a sarcastic remark as FK seems to share some of my concerns about rebuilding.
If an act of God dumped an ocean on top of me, you're right. I would expect my local gov
Rebuild it! (Score:2)
They need to beef up the seawall for the storm surge, 20 feet should be enough. They certainly need to build levees around the city, not those cement retaining wall things. The port should be built up, and possibly some wave barriers built out to cripple large waves, like they have in Galveston.
Not crazy.. (Score:1)
I mean, sure, plant it somewhere else or forget about it alltogether if you don`t care, but it is a bit a simplistic solution imfo. For reference, almost all of The Netherlands is below sealevel, and still si
Vote with your feet and wallet (Score:2)
America does not need leadership.