Huh. So, when I'm fragging bad guys in Quake, is that "database interaction" or "content creation?"
Database interaction. What you see on the screen is a representation of the data inside the computer, and you have a selection of ways of manipulating that data, and no significant way of entering your own data. This describes Quake as well as your local Human Resources application. Quake may look pretty, but fundamentally, that's all it is.
Remember Doom? Remember Doom's automap? Remember you could still run around, and depending on your keybindings, fire and everything? The graphics are just window dressing, the fundamental data model is not that complicated.
"Content creation" is when you are authoring your own levels, which is a seperate function. Note how night-and-day different the interface is.
"Gosh, this ball and chain is great! I don't have to run anywhere near as fast as I used to in order to get the same amount of exercise!"
You misunderstand. Browsers are good for the users because it's not possible to do complicated things in the browser. Browsers are good for the users precisely because they hobble the developers.
It's worth noting that we are only now hearing developers really seriously chomp at the bit, and even so, it's muted. And about 75% of the moaning I've heard will go away when and if browsers build a better text entry field, preferably with good spell-checking, into the browser. This would have long since happened if Microsoft did not have a strategic interest in not doing this and if they did not own so much of the browser market. This all strongly implies that the vast majority of time, we do not need all the singing, dancing widgets we think we do. (There are many exceptions, but if you think about it you'll find most of them are in the "content creation" bucket Timothy Bray mentions and explcitly excepts.)
In fact, this is exactly why Microsoft has not built spellchecking and (easy) rich text entry into the browser: with those two features alone, one can easily build cheap apps that would catch about 75% of the common use cases for Microsoft Office, and correspondingly fewer people would need to buy it. (For instance, "student papers" would be quite adequately covered with a good rich-text web entry application, plus a few accoutrements for footnotes and a bibliography.)
Meanwhile, users are jumping for joy that "Ctrl-Meta-x, Alt-# while in the Mitigating Preferences tab of the Technobabble Control Dialog" can't be made to do anything in a browser.
Cool! I'll just head on down to compusa and check out their database interaction aisle. I think it will be their "I/O and processing" section as opposed to their "platform physical implementations" section and their "internal interaction compliance and configuration" counter.
According to this article HTML is the best UI environment yet except for content creation.
Damn, and all this time I could've been playing Quake3 in HTML. Prolly would've had a much better UI. After all it's just a database interaction proggy.
And I didn't even know that HTML was great at controlling hardware. Dammit, all this time I could've been running my serial port controlled radio station in HTML. After all it's just a database interaction proggy.
According to this article HTML is the best UI environment yet except for content creation.
Uh, he said "browser" not "html", there's a slight difference
Damn, and all this time I could've been playing Quake3 in HTML
I don't know about Quake, but there are some interesting java/flash games out there that are played in a browser.
And I didn't even know that HTML was great at controlling hardware.
Samba has a web based configuration (swat). I don't think it would be hard to make an app that cofigures h
The model of "free viewer, paid editor" was a good one, but not when they charge $400 for the editor. Adobe had a great window of opportunity to lower their price before HTML came along and ate their lunch with a "good enough" feature set. They blew it.
"And about 75% of the moaning I've heard will go away when and if browsers build a better text entry field, preferably with good spell-checking, into the browser. This would have long since happened if Microsoft did not have a strategic interest in not doing this and if they did not own so much of the browser market. "
Do you know of a Linux-based browser working on this already?
FWIW, two Mac OS X browsers do this: Camino (was Chimera) and Safari, Apple's own browser. Enabling a menu item allows all entered text to be spellchecked in either browser; mis-spelled words in this post were underlined for me in red by Safari.
Cool. Still, is there a Linux-based browser that will do this? I am asking this because my primary machine is a linux box and my other machines are Windows-based.
Browsers are good for the users precisely because they hobble the developers.
Not enough, IMO. I long for the days when HTML was good and the web pages were usable. Now, we have layers upon layers of browser-side tools, like JavaScript, that have made the WWW much less robust. Just the other day, an otherwise innocent looking website was disallowing my form post--a simple form post--because of something in a JavaScript function. Now, I have to dig up Internet Explorer at work just to finish what should
...about 75% of the moaning I've heard will go away when and if browsers build a better text entry field
No, I think Bray is way off base here. The browser's page based metaphor greatly impedes the design of appropriate database interfaces.
I basically disagree with any argument premised on the notion that you shouldn't give people too much power, because they don't know what to do with it and they'll screw stuff up. Sure, if you give form designers the gamut of imaginable tools, you'll see some pretty h
Browser is everything? (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh. So, when I'm fragging bad guys in Quake, is that "database interaction" or "content creation?"
Browsers are more usable because they're less flexible.
"Gosh, this ball and chain is great! I don't have to run anywhere near as fast as I used to in order to get the same amount of exercise!"
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:5, Insightful)
Database interaction. What you see on the screen is a representation of the data inside the computer, and you have a selection of ways of manipulating that data, and no significant way of entering your own data. This describes Quake as well as your local Human Resources application. Quake may look pretty, but fundamentally, that's all it is.
Remember Doom? Remember Doom's automap? Remember you could still run around, and depending on your keybindings, fire and everything? The graphics are just window dressing, the fundamental data model is not that complicated.
"Content creation" is when you are authoring your own levels, which is a seperate function. Note how night-and-day different the interface is.
"Gosh, this ball and chain is great! I don't have to run anywhere near as fast as I used to in order to get the same amount of exercise!"
You misunderstand. Browsers are good for the users because it's not possible to do complicated things in the browser. Browsers are good for the users precisely because they hobble the developers.
It's worth noting that we are only now hearing developers really seriously chomp at the bit, and even so, it's muted. And about 75% of the moaning I've heard will go away when and if browsers build a better text entry field, preferably with good spell-checking, into the browser. This would have long since happened if Microsoft did not have a strategic interest in not doing this and if they did not own so much of the browser market. This all strongly implies that the vast majority of time, we do not need all the singing, dancing widgets we think we do. (There are many exceptions, but if you think about it you'll find most of them are in the "content creation" bucket Timothy Bray mentions and explcitly excepts.)
In fact, this is exactly why Microsoft has not built spellchecking and (easy) rich text entry into the browser: with those two features alone, one can easily build cheap apps that would catch about 75% of the common use cases for Microsoft Office, and correspondingly fewer people would need to buy it. (For instance, "student papers" would be quite adequately covered with a good rich-text web entry application, plus a few accoutrements for footnotes and a bibliography.)
Meanwhile, users are jumping for joy that "Ctrl-Meta-x, Alt-# while in the Mitigating Preferences tab of the Technobabble Control Dialog" can't be made to do anything in a browser.
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:1)
p.s. good post!
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
Damn, and all this time I could've been playing Quake3 in HTML. Prolly would've had a much better UI. After all it's just a database interaction proggy.
And I didn't even know that HTML was great at controlling hardware. Dammit, all this time I could've been running my serial port controlled radio station in HTML. After all it's just a database interaction proggy.
And CRAP! My GPS navigation system in my car cou
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:1)
Uh, he said "browser" not "html", there's a slight difference
Damn, and all this time I could've been playing Quake3 in HTML
I don't know about Quake, but there are some interesting java/flash games out there that are played in a browser.
And I didn't even know that HTML was great at controlling hardware.
Samba has a web based configuration (swat). I don't think it would be hard to make an app that cofigures h
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
But Adobe was too damn greedy.
The model of "free viewer, paid editor" was a good one, but not when they charge $400 for the editor. Adobe had a great window of opportunity to lower their price before HTML came along and ate their lunch with a "good enough" feature set. They blew it.
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
Do you know of a Linux-based browser working on this already?
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
FWIW, two Mac OS X browsers do this: Camino (was Chimera) and Safari, Apple's own browser. Enabling a menu item allows all entered text to be spellchecked in either browser; mis-spelled words in this post were underlined for me in red by Safari.
So there you go.
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
Not enough, IMO. I long for the days when HTML was good and the web pages were usable. Now, we have layers upon layers of browser-side tools, like JavaScript, that have made the WWW much less robust. Just the other day, an otherwise innocent looking website was disallowing my form post--a simple form post--because of something in a JavaScript function. Now, I have to dig up Internet Explorer at work just to finish what should
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, I think Bray is way off base here. The browser's page based metaphor greatly impedes the design of appropriate database interfaces.
I basically disagree with any argument premised on the notion that you shouldn't give people too much power, because they don't know what to do with it and they'll screw stuff up. Sure, if you give form designers the gamut of imaginable tools, you'll see some pretty h
Re:Browser is everything? (Score:2)
Of course it does. Responsibly used, more widgets are always better then fewer widgets.
Careful analysis of that last sentence left as an exercise to the reader; it's got the whole point wrapped up in there.