I support open source 100% but the analysis in the article is very flawed.
If I have an application for any os, I have the same set of worries no matter what. If its windows yes I do have to worry about microsoft developing their own and giving it away. However how many times has microsoft decided to give away stuff ? If its linux I have to worry about someone reverse engineering my product and making an open source knockoff. In the linux case if their is damage to my IP rights, who am I going to sue coll
And Microsoft has recently acquired an anti-virus company, so I'm guessing they're going to try to put Norton and McAfee (or whoever owns them now) out of business.
Imbedded Tiny Basic into MS DOS - removing all language competitors
Which explains why we're all still programming in Basic. Included primitive Games with windows
Cause hell, the Games Industry hasn't recently surpassed the Movie Industry in overall sales (what was it, $6.8 Billion Dollars?) Included Disk Compression, virtually putting Stacker out of business.
Live Disk compression should be a function of the operating system, if Stac can do it better, all power to the them. Included Lan management softw
'Which explains why we're all still programming in Basic.' True, but then, are you still running MSDOS? I didn't think so. I'd be surprised if you remember a DOS-only computer.
'Cause hell, the Games Industry hasn't recently surpassed the Movie Industry in overall sales (what was it, $6.8 Billion Dollars?)' I wasn't aware that that the primitive game industry was doing that well. The way-up-there parent poster was talking about Microsoft giving software away.
'regardless of the fact that Microsoft was actuall
You can try to whitewash Microsoft's behaviour all you like. You can pretend that Microsoft is just a normal company, winning through honest competition. But history shows otherwise...
> > Imbedded Tiny Basic into MS DOS - removing all language competitors
> Which explains why we're all still programming in Basic.
Microsoft has always messed with the APIs to block competition, and make everyone dependent on Microsoft for their programming tools.
But when Java proved to be too tough, Microsoft swi
Imbedded Tiny Basic into MS DOS - removing all language competitors
Actually IBM put BASICA in the ROM of the XTs, Microsoft put GWBasic in with DOS. Of course, we're all stuck using GWBasic now, as no language competitors exist.
Included primitive Games with windows
That's right, we're limited to playing solitare. Damn those linux gamers, with their fancy Wolfenstein 3D that Windows users don't have. Damn microsoft for limiting us to minesweeper.
Included Lan management software into the operating system, causing pain to 3com, Novell, and others.
Damn MS for including SNMP, because no other operating system does that.
Gave away the browser, causing serious financial strain to Netscape
Damn MS, for killing netscape. There's no other browser but for IE, errr, and Netscape, and Mozilla, and Opera.... Oh, and damn Netscape for killing Mosaic.
Bought Hotmail (free email), and gave away browser-based email.
Damn Microsoft, Yahoo can't produce webmail and give it away free now.
Included a bazillion features into the office suite, eliminating lots of specialized software applications.
Damn Microsoft for adding features, because all I really want from Office is notepad with a different title bar. Text formatting and tables aren't important to me. And damn those cheeky open office people for doing the same thing, but claiming Open is good.
Gave away SQL for small apps, in the form of MSDE.
Damn microsoft, now there are no other database engines out there. Except for Oracle, and a few free ones I read about somewhere. But the free ones are for commies anyway.
Microsoft has made a practice of eliminating competition by giving away software! Where have you been?
Great, so lets stop people giving away software. It's obviously bad. Mr Torvalds, to the dungeon with you. Begin the Minesweeper torture!
I think this is one of the smartest posts I've seen on slashdot for a while. When you think about it, the OSS Community acts a lot like Microsoft, IE giving stuff away for free. Both also try their best to have as much marketshare as possible (although for different reasons).
The question was "How many times has Microsoft given something away", and the answer was essentially "lots of times. Here are some examples." In fact other people gave other examples.
You argue really well, but there's no one here arguing with you. Nice try, but next time read the post, and the context of the message before launching into a point-by-point rebuttal. If you were trying to argue against my point, you would have said in at least one case that Microsoft did NOT
Except almost none of the things mentioned there were given away. They were sold as components of Microsoft's OS or applications. The fact that they were not included as part of earlier versions of Microsoft's products does not mean they are being "given away." It just means that Microsoft has often added features to their applications and operating systems by buying products or stealing ideas from other companies.
The point wasn't that by doing this Microsoft has eliminated innovation in these fields.
The point is simply that Microsoft has introduced new products for their platform which have destroyed the market of existing smaller software producers which already met more or less the same needs.
The reason that the Microsoft products are adopted in these cases, is because either they come free with the operating system, or they are seen as more favorable because of the familiar "Microsoft" name.
Nope. Microsoft did that. They licensed Mosaic for a percentage of the profits from reselling it, then gave it away to drive Netscape out of business - in the process killing Mosaic (any percent of $0 is still $0...).
So I guess you are right, Netscape DID kill Mosaic - by being in Microsofts way. Damn Netscape for being in the way and forcing Microsoft to kill Mosaic while bulldozing them out of the way!
Bought Hotmail (free email), and gave away browser-based
Basic ? It was included with the pc in the roms. BTW do a google on basic and see how they have killed off the competition
Primitive games with windows. Solitaire, Minesweeper wow this is cutting into blizzards sales.
Compression, Stacker benefitted immensely from this to the tune of 120 million dollars, of course if a poor college kid had of done it on unix they would have gotten what ? BTW stackers demise might have to do with the fact that only very crazy people compress drive volumes these days
Others have already pointed out how silly your argument is, but there's one item that you list that is just completely wrong and nobody has noticed yet:
Gave away SQL for small apps, in the form of MSDE.
I don't think so. Where [microsoft.com] does it say that MSDE is free? Yes, you can redistribute it with your applications, but only if you've purchased a license to do so. Such a license is included in the cost of such things as Visual Studio or Office XP Developer. You can't just download MSDE and be on your way wi
You can't just download MSDE and be on your way without paying Microsoft for some other product.
Actually if you are building an ASP.NET application using Web Matrix [asp.net] and it's for a local intranet you can download [asp.net] MSDE and use it. And since Web Matrix is free as well.....
M$ will be beaten by its own game. Neil Stephenson, a true visionair IMHO, made an excellent analysis of the OS situation. Please read [steve-parker.org] "In the beginning, there was the command line"
It sums up as: "But it is the fate of operating systems to become free."
This will end M$ windows domination as we know it.
Bram
Unix is the worst operating system; except for all others.
-- Berry Kercheval
Living in the past (Score:3, Interesting)
If I have an application for any os, I have the same set of worries no matter what. If its windows yes I do have to worry about microsoft developing their own and giving it away. However how many times has microsoft decided to give away stuff ? If its linux I have to worry about someone reverse engineering my product and making an open source knockoff. In the linux case if their is damage to my IP rights, who am I going to sue coll
How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's see... should we start at the beginning?
Imbedded Tiny Basic into MS DOS - removing all language competitors
Included primitive Games with windows
Included Disk Compression, virtually putting Stacker out of business.
Included Lan management software into the operating system, causing pain to 3com, Novell, and others.
Gave away the browser, causing serious financial strain to Netscape
Bought Hotmail (free email), and gave away browser-based email.
Included a bazillion features into the office suite, eliminating lots of specialized software applications.
Gave away SQL for small apps, in the form of MSDE.
Microsoft has made a practice of eliminating competition by giving away software! Where have you been?
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
So its not like this is really a new thing for them...
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
Which explains why we're all still programming in Basic.
Included primitive Games with windows
Cause hell, the Games Industry hasn't recently surpassed the Movie Industry in overall sales (what was it, $6.8 Billion Dollars?)
Included Disk Compression, virtually putting Stacker out of business.
Live Disk compression should be a function of the operating system, if Stac can do it better, all power to the them.
Included Lan management softw
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
True, but then, are you still running MSDOS? I didn't think so. I'd be surprised if you remember a DOS-only computer.
'Cause hell, the Games Industry hasn't recently surpassed the Movie Industry in overall sales (what was it, $6.8 Billion Dollars?)'
I wasn't aware that that the primitive game industry was doing that well. The way-up-there parent poster was talking about Microsoft giving software away.
'regardless of the fact that Microsoft was actuall
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Microsoft wins through crime, not competition (Score:0)
> > Imbedded Tiny Basic into MS DOS - removing all language competitors
> Which explains why we're all still programming in Basic.
Microsoft has always messed with the APIs to block competition, and make everyone dependent on Microsoft for their programming tools.
But when Java proved to be too tough, Microsoft swi
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually IBM put BASICA in the ROM of the XTs, Microsoft put GWBasic in with DOS. Of course, we're all stuck using GWBasic now, as no language competitors exist.
Included primitive Games with windows
That's right, we're limited to playing solitare. Damn those linux gamers, with their fancy Wolfenstein 3D that Windows users don't have. Damn microsoft for limiting us to minesweeper.
Included Lan management software into the operating system, causing pain to 3com, Novell, and others.
Damn MS for including SNMP, because no other operating system does that.
Gave away the browser, causing serious financial strain to Netscape
Damn MS, for killing netscape. There's no other browser but for IE, errr, and Netscape, and Mozilla, and Opera .... Oh, and damn Netscape for killing Mosaic.
Bought Hotmail (free email), and gave away browser-based email.
Damn Microsoft, Yahoo can't produce webmail and give it away free now.
Included a bazillion features into the office suite, eliminating lots of specialized software applications.
Damn Microsoft for adding features, because all I really want from Office is notepad with a different title bar. Text formatting and tables aren't important to me. And damn those cheeky open office people for doing the same thing, but claiming Open is good.
Gave away SQL for small apps, in the form of MSDE.
Damn microsoft, now there are no other database engines out there. Except for Oracle, and a few free ones I read about somewhere. But the free ones are for commies anyway.
Microsoft has made a practice of eliminating competition by giving away software! Where have you been?
Great, so lets stop people giving away software. It's obviously bad. Mr Torvalds, to the dungeon with you. Begin the Minesweeper torture!
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
The question was "How many times has Microsoft given something away", and the answer was essentially "lots of times. Here are some examples." In fact other people gave other examples.
You argue really well, but there's no one here arguing with you. Nice try, but next time read the post, and the context of the message before launching into a point-by-point rebuttal. If you were trying to argue against my point, you would have said in at least one case that Microsoft did NOT
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Umm... you completely missed it (Score:0)
The point is simply that Microsoft has introduced new products for their platform which have destroyed the market of existing smaller software producers which already met more or less the same needs.
The reason that the Microsoft products are adopted in these cases, is because either they come free with the operating system, or they are seen as more favorable because of the familiar "Microsoft" name.
While it is less no
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:1)
Nope. Microsoft did that. They licensed Mosaic for a percentage of the profits from reselling it, then gave it away to drive Netscape out of business - in the process killing Mosaic (any percent of $0 is still $0...).
So I guess you are right, Netscape DID kill Mosaic - by being in Microsofts way. Damn Netscape for being in the way and forcing Microsoft to kill Mosaic while bulldozing them out of the way!
Bought Hotmail (free email), and gave away browser-based
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Primitive games with windows. Solitaire, Minesweeper wow this is cutting into blizzards sales.
Compression, Stacker benefitted immensely from this to the tune of 120 million dollars, of course if a poor college kid had of done it on unix they would have gotten what ? BTW stackers demise might have to do with the fact that only very crazy people compress drive volumes these days
La
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
You make money from giving something away when doing so protects your monopoly.
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Lets evaluate statements.
GM has begun including free scheduled maintenance to protect its monopoly from KIA.
Budweisser has included Freshness dates to protect its monopoly from Sam Adams
ABC is now broadcasting in color to protect its monopoly from NBC which pioneered the technique
RCA gives away broadcasting on NBC to protect its monopoly on color TV's
You give things away becuase you have to. Because you have to match youre competitors, because it is expected, or to achieve
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
In my city, the Time and Temperature phone number IS sponsored by the power company.
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
Linux is Available
OSX is Available
AIX is available
ZOS is available and dominant in its area
BSD is available
QNX is available
SCO is available and a must run for some people
Solaris Is available
Mach Is available
Next Step and Openstep are available
Most of D.E.C.'s operating systems are gone and good riddance. There was a company with its head up its rear
My point is I don't see a monopoly. I have only touched on a small fraction of the available competitors. P
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
This one costs money. You've purchased it indirectly through SQL Server seat licences or something.
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:1)
Others have already pointed out how silly your argument is, but there's one item that you list that is just completely wrong and nobody has noticed yet:
I don't think so. Where [microsoft.com] does it say that MSDE is free? Yes, you can redistribute it with your applications, but only if you've purchased a license to do so. Such a license is included in the cost of such things as Visual Studio or Office XP Developer. You can't just download MSDE and be on your way wi
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:1)
Actually if you are building an ASP.NET application using Web Matrix [asp.net] and it's for a local intranet you can download [asp.net] MSDE and use it. And since Web Matrix is free as well.....
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:2)
And to this day not a single soul codes in anything other then QBasic right?
Included primitive Games with windows
So thats why PC games never took off!
Included Disk Compression, virtually putting Stacker out of business.
You mean stole Stacker's product outright...
Gave away the browser, causing serious financial strain to Netscape
Netscape screwed themselves by putting out a shitty product. No one switched untill IE was 'bet
Re:How many times has MS given something away???? (Score:0)
Isn't that the GNU-Linux game plan?
It seems to be working all to well.
A decent reference for this question: (Score:0)
It, however, does not appear to have been updated since the late 90's.
Consider Neil Stephenson's analysis of giving away (Score:1)
Neil Stephenson, a true visionair IMHO, made an
excellent analysis of the OS situation. Please
read [steve-parker.org]
"In the beginning, there was the command line"
It sums up as:
"But it is the fate of operating systems to become free."
This will end M$ windows domination as we know it.
Bram