my thought exactly. There's no way processor speed can continue at its current pace to that point. It would have to be nearly infinately fast to simulate all the 10000000000000000000000000000000000's of atoms i can see right now, and even put an electron microscope up to and see formations of. There's just too much to simulate, that is, of course judging that this person is saying that WE will be able to do it eventually. I don't doubt that it's possible that processors are a lot faster beyond the matri
Well, you see, the funny thing is that you don't need to simulate the atoms at all. All that you need to simulate visually is the smallest object a person can resolve with his unadied eyes. Everything else is simply mapped on top of that.
For touch, you just simulate the smallest texture difference that a human can feel. For sound, all you need to do is simulate the sounds that a human can hear.
All of these would need to have a certain safely margin to account for people whose senses are better than oth
Uh, what if someone builds a device to look at smaller objects than the unaided eye can see?
There are so many ways to do that, that it might conceivably be better to simulate at a lower level than to deal with all the possible special cases, or allow people to detect the flaws.
As for processing limitations, it's might not be impossible if you can underclock the minds of participants - put them in suspended animation or something.
Then you simulate what would be seen. Everything could be treated as a surface with a varying transparency and a texture mapped on top of it. You wouldn't have to visually simulate anything smaller than the eye could resolve, but if needed, the simulation could simulate portions in more detail.
It would be easier from a programming standpoint to simulate all of the individual atoms, but that would be prohibitively slow. We're talking tens of thousands of years for less than a second of simulation time using conventional computers on anything less than a planetary scale.
Quantum computers and chemical computers could speed it up greatly, but it would still take massive amounts of raw processing power to keep track of all of those atoms, let alone let anything interact with them.
You can never see anything smaller than the smallest dot that your eye can perceive. However, you can design devices to enlarge objects (or increase the resolution of your eye, depending on how you look at it).
One of the huge problems with The Matrix is the question of how people were actually put into it. If anyone had memories of the real world, then they would undoubtedly find a way to pass them on to their children. So, that implies that none of the first generation of Matrix denizens was ever outside the Matrix at any prior point in their lives. Yet they had parents. The programs in the Matrix aren't compassionate at all, so they certainly couldn't have raised the children. Perhaps they had been imprisoned for millennia, but if that were the case, I would have expected the robots to have wiped out the last of the independent humans. Due to the way memories are stored, there is no way to erase specific memories from the human mind without some serious brain damage. We can only stop new ones from forming. Perhaps the robots were able to create synthetic sets of memories for the first parents, but again, how? That would require someone in the Matrix in the first place so that his memories could be copied. Perhaps the first parents were willing subjects? I don't really see that as in The Animatrix, the general populace was destroying the robots in the streets. That would be like southern whites agreeing to be slaves to some blacks during the Civil War. Very few would. Perhaps enough did that they were the first generation.
I believe in one of the Second Renaissance parts, the scene where the robot is sitting as the chairman of the UN and requests human flesh, the Human nations sign away their rights and willingly commit themselves to the first Matrix.
Sorry I'm not more descriptive, but I don't have the DVD on hand to recheck.
hate to nit pick, but your whole theory falls apart when one watches ciphers betrail dealings in the matrix 1. It is rather clearly implied that "our robot masters" have the ability to wipe memories. There are some other problems with your "problem" with the matrix, but I think Ill just stick with K.I.S.S. for this retort.
The first batch could have been "grown" from scratch by the machines, as well, with agents & friends filling in as the adults for the first generation.
But why bother with mind erasure available? Presumably mind memory implantation, too. After all, they can load any skills necessary; memories should be trivial to them.
Why do you assume that they were going to erase Cyphers mind?
Are you sure Agent Smith would even bother being honest with him? Do you really think he was going to be mind wiped and placed back into the Matrix, as a rich, wealthy celebrity?
Not likely. (I think that was meant as a joke by the bros.)
He is was going to be probed/proded for any and all info he had about Zion. Then liquified to feed the newborne batteries.
Due to the way memories are stored, there is no way to erase specific memories from the human mind without some serious brain damage.
Haven't you seen Men in Black? In that movie, Agent Jones (known as "K") showed a darker-skinned Agent Smith (known as "J") a flashy thing called a "neuralizer" that could suppress approximately n days worth of the target's most recent memories.
And due to human physiology, that isn't really possible. Memories are formed as neural pathways such that when we 'remember' something, what is really happening is that the pathways are all firing at the same time. Since we can't really predict which pathways are associated, we can't erase memories.
As for preventing memories from forming, that has to be done beforehand. There are drugs that hospitals would give to women giving birththat wouldn't prevent any of the pain, but it would make them forget the
Amnesia is a disorder in which the neurons more or less get out of synch such that they don't trigger a memory when they fire. It doesn't erase the memories, but it does make it very difficult to access them because your brain doesn't work in the same way as when it wrote them.
Memories cannot be slectively erased after they have already been formed. They can't be erased at all without some serious brain damage. They can be prevented by administering some rather nasty drugs.
The flaw in the argument I think is that memories could have been passed in a reliable manner to descendants. For eg. the only way that we know that our ancestors were apes and they lived by hunting animals is through observations and discoveries of what is currently available. Who is to say that these pieces of evidence were not planted to be discovered by us so we form our opinions about our past?
Maybe the first generation of denizens of the matrix were indeed humans with memories of the real world but
The computer only needs to simulate what people can see--since the simulation is for people, anything else with a brain(or without) is merely a prop. Anything not in sight goes from the machines ram into storage, and i'm sure not every atom must be simulated.. equations describe our environment, and they can be applied to this simulation as they are in real life. This brings up the question... does a tree falling in the woods make a noise? Answer: NO, it doesn't deserve the proccessing power to be simul
Couldn't you just put newborns in the simulation originally and simulate parents for them?
Just kill everyone over 12 months old and the problem likely takes care of itself.
The problem with that is that the programs probably wouldn't make good parents. I can just see Agent Smith sealing a baby's mouth to keep it from crying.
"Be there. Aloha."
-- Steve McGarret, _Hawaii Five-Oh_
and this my friends is why (Score:5, Funny)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:5, Insightful)
For touch, you just simulate the smallest texture difference that a human can feel. For sound, all you need to do is simulate the sounds that a human can hear.
All of these would need to have a certain safely margin to account for people whose senses are better than oth
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:3, Insightful)
There are so many ways to do that, that it might conceivably be better to simulate at a lower level than to deal with all the possible special cases, or allow people to detect the flaws.
As for processing limitations, it's might not be impossible if you can underclock the minds of participants - put them in suspended animation or something.
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be easier from a programming standpoint to simulate all of the individual atoms, but that would be prohibitively slow. We're talking tens of thousands of years for less than a second of simulation time using conventional computers on anything less than a planetary scale.
Quantum computers and chemical computers could speed it up greatly, but it would still take massive amounts of raw processing power to keep track of all of those atoms, let alone let anything interact with them.
You can never see anything smaller than the smallest dot that your eye can perceive. However, you can design devices to enlarge objects (or increase the resolution of your eye, depending on how you look at it).
One of the huge problems with The Matrix is the question of how people were actually put into it. If anyone had memories of the real world, then they would undoubtedly find a way to pass them on to their children. So, that implies that none of the first generation of Matrix denizens was ever outside the Matrix at any prior point in their lives. Yet they had parents. The programs in the Matrix aren't compassionate at all, so they certainly couldn't have raised the children. Perhaps they had been imprisoned for millennia, but if that were the case, I would have expected the robots to have wiped out the last of the independent humans. Due to the way memories are stored, there is no way to erase specific memories from the human mind without some serious brain damage. We can only stop new ones from forming. Perhaps the robots were able to create synthetic sets of memories for the first parents, but again, how? That would require someone in the Matrix in the first place so that his memories could be copied. Perhaps the first parents were willing subjects? I don't really see that as in The Animatrix, the general populace was destroying the robots in the streets. That would be like southern whites agreeing to be slaves to some blacks during the Civil War. Very few would. Perhaps enough did that they were the first generation.
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:1)
Animatrix and insertion into the first Matrix (Score:1)
Sorry I'm not more descriptive, but I don't have the DVD on hand to recheck.
Re:Animatrix and insertion into the first Matrix (Score:2)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:1)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:1)
But why bother with mind erasure available? Presumably mind memory implantation, too. After all, they can load any skills necessary; memories should be trivial to them.
Mind Erasure (Score:0)
Why do you assume that they were going to erase Cyphers mind?
Are you sure Agent Smith would even bother being honest with him? Do you really think he was going to be mind wiped and placed back into the Matrix, as a rich, wealthy celebrity?
Not likely. (I think that was meant as a joke by the bros.)
He is was going to be probed/proded for any and all info he had about Zion. Then liquified to feed the newborne batteries.
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:2)
The neuralizer and the "other" Agent Smith (Score:1)
Due to the way memories are stored, there is no way to erase specific memories from the human mind without some serious brain damage.
Haven't you seen Men in Black? In that movie, Agent Jones (known as "K") showed a darker-skinned Agent Smith (known as "J") a flashy thing called a "neuralizer" that could suppress approximately n days worth of the target's most recent memories.
Re:The neuralizer and the "other" Agent Smith (Score:0)
As for preventing memories from forming, that has to be done beforehand. There are drugs that hospitals would give to women giving birththat wouldn't prevent any of the pain, but it would make them forget the
Re:The neuralizer and the "other" Agent Smith (Score:0)
Next time you get the chance look up 'amnesia' in the dictionary.
Re:The neuralizer and the "other" Agent Smith (Score:0)
Memories cannot be slectively erased after they have already been formed. They can't be erased at all without some serious brain damage. They can be prevented by administering some rather nasty drugs.
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:0)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:1)
Maybe the first generation of denizens of the matrix were indeed humans with memories of the real world but
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:1)
Like the Matrix 2 fight scenes? (Score:0)
Everything could be treated as a surface with a varying transparency and a texture mapped on top of it.
In other words, it'd be like how some fight scenes in The Matrix Reloaded were shot, right?
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:2)
Re:and this my friends is why (Score:2)