But Occam's razor says we do not need to assume humans and computers are resonsible for it. The simulation is all around us... some examples:
- you consider the world to be composed of things with surfaces and textures, yet in fact most of everything is interatomic space. Matter is a simulation.
- you consider yourself to be a being, complete and individual, yet you are built from trillions of cells each with a lifecycle, not to mention hosts of other organisms that cohabit your body, even your gene pool. Individuality is a simulation.
- you think you are reading this text, and yet it is just a sprinkling of letters and dots and random ideas. Language is a simulation, the Internet also.
- you believe you exist, and yet we are truly just temporary assemblages of matter acting as hosts for the multilevel game of life. Existence is a simulation.
But none of this means much: as in the Matrix, if I stab your simulated heart with a simulated knife, your simulated body will simulate death. And your simulated consciousness will try very, very hard to avoid that. Welcome to the Real World.
- you consider the world to be composed of things with surfaces and textures, yet in fact most of everything is interatomic space. Matter is a simulation.
A simulation of what, exactly? Who or what is simulating what? Sure, it's an illusion that there is physical contact anywhere, when it's nowhere. But why would it be a simulation?
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- you consider yourself to be a being, complete and individual, yet you are built from trillions of cells each with a lifecycle, not to mention hosts of other organisms that
This statement is circular. Real is what exists, and yes, existence is real. But you have no independent measure of 'existence' and 'real' except your own mind. It's the observer paradox: you cannot observe yourself as you really are.
A "simulation" does not necessarily have a design or will behind it. But perhaps the word was badly chosen. The point is this: reality is a protocol, nothing more. It is an agreement, an understanding, a frame of reference. Of course we cannot know this, only believe it
You're right of course! I guess it's an assumption I make, that what we observe is the reality. And, in at least one way it is, if not the whole reality, so part of it. What we see around us could very well be the real world, or it could be a simulation. In either case it's part of reality, the difference is how big a part of the reality it is, right? And what if the simulation isn't the whole reality either? Maybe someone is simulating they who simulate us, etc.
If you s/simulation/illusion/ then the meat of your post is correct.
All of the effects you mention can be attributed to limited perception, and they are not a result of being in a simulation.
What needs to be done so solve this problem and draw a line under it is to find something, some natural effect that cannot be explained in any other terms other that that it is a part of a large, fine grained simulation....like the far away galaxies apearing razor sharp in telescopes; a backdrop for us
Nah, "simulation" is the right term. Only the simulation is coming from our own heads. That's the point. Seeing the world as a bunch of easy-to-manage objects, as humans do, is not about illusion. The cup on my desk is not an illusion. It is a virtual reality simulation, faked by my mind so that my hand can find it. Illusions are not tangible, but simulations can be.
I'm always wondering... development in physics in this century has actually showed that the reality is 'discreet' - the Planck's constant, Planck's time and similar notions tend to show that energy & matter are 'pixelised'. Voxels, anybody?:)
Actually all of your examples boil down to poor definition, not simulation.
For a long time, people thought matter was somehow "solid". Yet I now incorporate the idea that what I know of as "matter" is mostly empty space, yet it does not materially affect me in any way, because while humanity had to update our definition, "matter" did not suddenly change. It's still solid, and trying to stick a hand through a table still doesn't work.
Later people discovered that matter is all waves and is basically contain
"In the meantime, sticking your hand through the table remains impossible."
This is all good discussion, but these things should be self-evident to nerds like us.
The interesting thing is, when will be capable of sticking our hands through tables? When does all this realization about discretized existence help us to manipulate this existence in ways befitting of a holder of such knowledge? When can we begin to affect our universe in ways that show that we are conscious thinkers and not just voracious bio
Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:5, Insightful)
- you consider the world to be composed of things with surfaces and textures, yet in fact most of everything is interatomic space. Matter is a simulation.
- you consider yourself to be a being, complete and individual, yet you are built from trillions of cells each with a lifecycle, not to mention hosts of other organisms that cohabit your body, even your gene pool. Individuality is a simulation.
- you think you are reading this text, and yet it is just a sprinkling of letters and dots and random ideas. Language is a simulation, the Internet also.
- you believe you exist, and yet we are truly just temporary assemblages of matter acting as hosts for the multilevel game of life. Existence is a simulation.
But none of this means much: as in the Matrix, if I stab your simulated heart with a simulated knife, your simulated body will simulate death. And your simulated consciousness will try very, very hard to avoid that. Welcome to the Real World.
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:0)
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:1)
A simulation of what, exactly? Who or what is simulating what? Sure, it's an illusion that there is physical contact anywhere, when it's nowhere. But why would it be a simulation?
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- you consider yourself to be a being, complete and individual, yet you are built from trillions of cells each with a lifecycle, not to mention hosts of other organisms that
"Existence is very real" (Score:2)
A "simulation" does not necessarily have a design or will behind it. But perhaps the word was badly chosen. The point is this: reality is a protocol, nothing more. It is an agreement, an understanding, a frame of reference. Of course we cannot know this, only believe it
Re:"Existence is very real" (Score:1)
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:2)
If you s/simulation/illusion/ then the meat of your post is correct.
All of the effects you mention can be attributed to limited perception, and they are not a result of being in a simulation.
What needs to be done so solve this problem and draw a line under it is to find something, some natural effect that cannot be explained in any other terms other that that it is a part of a large, fine grained simulation....like the far away galaxies apearing razor sharp in telescopes; a backdrop for us
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:2)
Discreet physics? (Score:1)
s/simulation/emergent property/g (Score:2)
Jeremy
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:2)
For a long time, people thought matter was somehow "solid". Yet I now incorporate the idea that what I know of as "matter" is mostly empty space, yet it does not materially affect me in any way, because while humanity had to update our definition, "matter" did not suddenly change. It's still solid, and trying to stick a hand through a table still doesn't work.
Later people discovered that matter is all waves and is basically contain
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:0)
This is all good discussion, but these things should be self-evident to nerds like us.
The interesting thing is, when will be capable of sticking our hands through tables? When does all this realization about discretized existence help us to manipulate this existence in ways befitting of a holder of such knowledge? When can we begin to affect our universe in ways that show that we are conscious thinkers and not just voracious bio
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:2)
And I suppose the computer you posted that note on is engineered by the purity of your soul, and powered with your oneness with reality?
You're like the poor kids sitting and wishing they lived in Harry Potter's world without realizing that in most every way that counts they already do.
Re:Of course the universe is a simulation... (Score:1)
My simulated brain hurts, I gotta go.