This article bizarrely fails to mention the fight involving one of the Debian Project Leader candidates (and self proclaimed "Debian Pope") Jonathan Walther [reactor-core.org] which disrupted the inaugural dinner. The Debian high-ups seem to be doing their best to keep it quiet: a few Debian bloggers wrote about it, others hinted [eu.org] but said nothing concrete, some entries on planet debian were later redacted, and all the DebConf organisers had to say was this [debconf.org].
It makes you wonder (a) what kind of lunatics are running Debian th
As someone who actually prevented the Fight. There were no punches actually thrown.
First I want to say that this was my first experience with the Debian community and I knew almost nobody at all. I have known Ted a long time and we shared a room there.
Throughout the conference there was a small group (about 10) that seemed to be out to get Ted Walther any way possible. Probably because he is outspoken and not afraid to say what many others were thinking but afraid to say. Or that he had sent some E-mail's that challenge the Debian management. I don't know or even really care, because it shouldn't matter really.
So last Thursday night, way the hell out in the middle of no where at a resort 1.5 hours south of Mexico City they had "formal dinner" with rumors of a dance afterwards. Ted decided to invite a lady, a friend of the local ISP's owner, named Hilda.
This group, after spreading many rumors about Walther that were totally false, one of which that his date, Hilda (a local entrepreneur in a very small town where everyone knows everyone and runs a dental administration company) was accused of being a prostitute, and this was because Ted couldn't possible get a woman on his own. Being that I was there when Ted met her at the local Internet cafe, this vicious rumor is definitely not true.
After rumors failed, 7 guys tried to rush him and became quite agitated and violent. I am a fairly big guy and happen to be standing in the doorway at the time of the attack against Ted. Several people where behind him and they would have pushed Walther and several innocent bystanders over the 2 foot ledge that lead to the street, probably injuring some of them.
I actually stepped in between and told them, "Do you want to get physical?" not really knowing what the hell was taking place, but that it wasn't good. The group backed off very quickly.
The management assured me they would listen to all sides and make a decision.
That night at 4 am a group was in the hallway talking and I approached them and introduced myself,"hello, we haven't been introduced, my name is.." when I was screamed at by man with oddly colored hair (who I am told is)Holger Levsen, to shut the F**K up. and he motioned a threat to hit me.
But the next morning at 7am the Andreas Schuldei entered our room and demanded Walther leave the premises immediately for his own safety. That his presence would provoke violence, and promptly dumped him out on the street, broke and stranded out in the middle of nowhere.
They then removed him totally from the Debian project, his accounts, E-mail and even blog posts and photo from the groups mugshot collections.
I am incredibly offended by the management decisions to punish the victim and not the perpetrators and the way they went about this in secret!
First, there are two issues here: Ted's expulsion from (and the mess he was involved in) Debconf6, and the second (believe it or not) separate issue of he being expulsed from the Debian project itself. The Debconf6 events are not clear, and I am not in a position to talk about them other than to say that not everyone agrees with how it was handled (and that I personally don't agree on how these events were handled, either).
But if you are kicked from Debian, we do it right: you are NOT given a time window to
Who was the camel, and what was it that broke their back? Twice the Debian project as a whole refused to sponsor a GR (General Resolution) to remove Ted, which is the mechanism the project has in place to remove people for social reasons. In the past, the DAM's have only used their powers for people abusing Debian resources. This has happened three times in the past; Ted makes the first time these powers were used for non-technical reasons. In fact, in Ted's case NO reasons were given, even to other Deb
Again, no one has been willing to state a real reason why he was attacked or kicked out of the project. Even when I tried to personally inquire in a polite and honorable fashion, then wouldn't tell me or just make some mention of emails accusing them of being unfair, which at this point is starting to seem very much true.
Even a wacky conspiracy theorist starts to look credible when some one trys to assasinate him.
Does kicking someone out of the project involve not telling them at all. Or for what reason even after the fact.
They invited him there! He went there at great expense with the sole intention of trying to make peace and mend relationships. It seems as though the intention was to lure him there and beat him senseless in the middle of some forign country!
He didn't do anything while at Debconf to provoke anyone as far as I can see. Please someone tell me a specific case if he did do anything, but wearing a plastic crown and carrying a foam rubber bat, that was just a prop to be the jester of the crowd. Isn't cause or provocation. He didn't hit anyone with the bat, nor did he act agressive or even speak to any of his attackers.
Had this been in the US, I'm sure police and lawyers would be involved.
Even a wacky conspiracy theorist starts to look credible when some one trys to assasinate him.
Err... what part of suggesting that people tried to assassinate Ted is not a wacky conspiracy theory in its own right?
They invited him there! He went there at great expense with the sole intention of trying to make peace and mend relationships. It seems as though the intention was to lure him there and beat him senseless in the middle of some forign country!
Who are you claiming invited Ted to DebConf? The co
Again, no one has been willing to state a real reason why he was attacked or kicked out of the project.
There was an extensive email sent to debian-private detailing this, so we all know why. Leaking this information is a violation of the rules of the project that we all abide by, so you'll have a hard time getting it. The reason why this isn't posted publicly is out of respect for the person being kicked out, so they aren't ostracized by future friends/employers/etc for past behaviors.
I have seen the debian private list posts, Ted isn't the only friend I have on the inside there.
I still fail to see a real reason. How can holding a foam rubber bat be so offensive to people that they should try to beat him up or remove him from debian?!
If you read Anthony's letter it never states specifics just "disruptions", "disturbances", "provoke"
As example requesting Kosher Food. Oh my god! If requesting Kosher food is disruptive then... Well draw your own conclusions.
For me personally I don't eat Pork and it was impossible to tell what the meals were made of some really look like pork. Being Pork free in Mexico and at the Debconf when you don't speak the language was a serious problem.
Then later claims such as "Nazi propaganda and Holocaust denial information" this is based on them never having read what he had, or the context that it was in, which was in a very pro-jewish, we must never let it happen again light. I also believe that people need to see these documents! That hiding them will only doom us to repeat the past.
Well which is it Anthony? Is he a NAZI or a JEW!
"Why Didn't King Solomon Kill The Two Prostitutes". Did anyone bother to read this one!!! It's all bible quotes. But for many I'm sure the bible is too offensive!
From that very blog post: You cannot hit one party with the full penalty then let another get off free for the same crime. It is better to err on the side of mercy, so if you do not convict one, you should not convict another. This is violated daily by un-Godly governments who selectively enforce their laws to "make examples" of people. Such selective enforcement is neither fair or just.
How appropriate since they did just what he spoke against the very next day.
from the Debian private list that I am not bound to silence on Anthony Towns
to debian-private Hi,
It's my regret to report that the Debian Account Managers, James Troup and Joerg Jaspert, have decided to expel Ted Walther (aka Jonathan Walther, with IRC nicks SirDibos, SirDinosaur, Dinosaur, and account name krooger@debian.org) from the project.
Ted has been a continuing source of disturbance within the project, and whether deliberately or accidently has repeatedly acted in ways to provoke other members of the project and make their participation in both the project at large and DebConf 6 in particular difficult and uncomfortable.
The triggering event for this expulsion was a disturbance at the DebConf Formal Dinner, which I'll detail as best I can in a separate mail.
This has followed a number of other incidents at DebConf 6. The first of these that has been communicated to me were a number of disruptive communications with the travel sponsorship team in April, where Ted attempted to override the deadline for travel sponsorship in various ways [0].
This was followed in the next few days by complaints regarding the lack of food conforming to his dietary requirements, which he described as the "Karaite Jewish version of kashrut" in contrast to Jewish kosher food. When informed that the vegan/vegetarian menu would conform with his requirements, and that the hotel would not be able to conform with his requirements otherwise, he responded by accusing the organisers of "kosher discrimination", and booking a "second rate hotel in a third world country" where the cooks are "not worth their salt".
In order to ensure that the debconf lists remained useful, his posts were moderated, with only the mails containing a question others might be interested in, or some information others might find useful being allowed through.
Ted's conference registration was accepted, and he obtained room and food sponsorship for the period of his stay.
After arriving at DebConf, Ted brought along a foam rubber bat labelled with "clue", and hit a number of organisers and delegates with i
Where do I begin, there is just so much wrong with what your saying. http://www.aigarius.com/2006/03/10/interview-with- ted.html [aigarius.com] Aigars interview with Ted, I think really clarifies his thought process.
Aigars by the way is not a fan of Teds, but is honest and I have a lot of respect for him. He even told Ted to his face that "you're getting under my skin", but have respect for that.
Aigars article really explains the Debian woman situation, and having experienced first hand the clique around A
What about the fight? (Score:5, Interesting)
It makes you wonder (a) what kind of lunatics are running Debian th
Re:What about the fight? (Score:5, Informative)
First I want to say that this was my first experience with the Debian community and I knew almost nobody at all.
I have known Ted a long time and we shared a room there.
Throughout the conference there was a small group (about 10) that seemed to be out to get Ted Walther any way possible. Probably because he is outspoken and not afraid to say what many others were thinking but afraid to say. Or that he had sent some E-mail's that challenge the Debian management. I don't know or even really care, because it shouldn't matter really.
So last Thursday night, way the hell out in the middle of no where at a resort 1.5 hours south of Mexico City they had "formal dinner" with rumors of a dance afterwards. Ted decided to invite a lady, a friend of the local ISP's owner, named Hilda.
This group, after spreading many rumors about Walther that were totally false, one of which that his date, Hilda (a local entrepreneur in a very small town where everyone knows everyone and runs a dental administration company) was accused of being a prostitute, and this was because Ted couldn't possible get a woman on his own. Being that I was there when Ted met her at the local Internet cafe, this vicious rumor is definitely not true.
After rumors failed, 7 guys tried to rush him and became quite agitated and violent. I am a fairly big guy and happen to be standing in the doorway at the time of the attack against Ted.
Several people where behind him and they would have pushed Walther and several innocent bystanders over the 2 foot ledge that lead to the street, probably injuring some of them.
I actually stepped in between and told them, "Do you want to get physical?" not really knowing what the hell was taking place, but that it wasn't good. The group backed off very quickly.
The management assured me they would listen to all sides and make a decision.
That night at 4 am a group was in the hallway talking and I approached them and introduced myself,"hello, we haven't been introduced, my name is
But the next morning at 7am the Andreas Schuldei entered our room and demanded Walther leave the premises immediately for his own safety. That his presence would provoke violence, and promptly dumped him out on the street, broke and stranded out in the middle of nowhere.
They then removed him totally from the Debian project, his accounts, E-mail and even blog posts and photo from the groups mugshot collections.
I am incredibly offended by the management decisions to punish the victim and not the perpetrators and the way they went about this in secret!
Ted was not a saint (Score:1, Informative)
The Debconf6 events are not clear, and I am not in a position to talk about them other than to say that not everyone agrees with how it was handled (and that I personally don't agree on how these events were handled, either).
But if you are kicked from Debian, we do it right: you are NOT given a time window to
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:5, Interesting)
Even a wacky conspiracy theorist starts to look credible when some one trys to assasinate him.
Does kicking someone out of the project involve not telling them at all. Or for what reason even after the fact.
They invited him there! He went there at great expense with the sole intention of trying to make peace and mend relationships. It seems as though the intention was to lure him there and beat him senseless in the middle of some forign country!
He didn't do anything while at Debconf to provoke anyone as far as I can see. Please someone tell me a specific case if he did do anything, but wearing a plastic crown and carrying a foam rubber bat, that was just a prop to be the jester of the crowd. Isn't cause or provocation. He didn't hit anyone with the bat, nor did he act agressive or even speak to any of his attackers.
Had this been in the US, I'm sure police and lawyers would be involved.
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:2, Informative)
Err... what part of suggesting that people tried to assassinate Ted is not a wacky conspiracy theory in its own right?
Who are you claiming invited Ted to DebConf? The co
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:1, Insightful)
There was an extensive email sent to debian-private detailing this, so we all know why. Leaking this information is a violation of the rules of the project that we all abide by, so you'll have a hard time getting it. The reason why this isn't posted publicly is out of respect for the person being kicked out, so they aren't ostracized by future friends/employers/etc for past behaviors.
I believe that J
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:4, Informative)
I still fail to see a real reason. How can holding a foam rubber bat be so offensive to people that they should try to beat him up or remove him from debian?!
If you read Anthony's letter it never states specifics just "disruptions", "disturbances", "provoke"
As example requesting Kosher Food. Oh my god! If requesting Kosher food is disruptive then
For me personally I don't eat Pork and it was impossible to tell what the meals were made of some really look like pork. Being Pork free in Mexico and at the Debconf when you don't speak the language was a serious problem.
Then later claims such as "Nazi propaganda and Holocaust denial information" this is based on them never having read what he had, or the context that it was in, which was in a very pro-jewish, we must never let it happen again light. I also believe that people need to see these documents! That hiding them will only doom us to repeat the past.
Well which is it Anthony? Is he a NAZI or a JEW!
"Why Didn't King Solomon Kill The Two Prostitutes".
Did anyone bother to read this one!!!
It's all bible quotes. But for many I'm sure the bible is too offensive!
From that very blog post:
You cannot hit one party with the full penalty then let another get off free for the same crime. It is better to err on the side of mercy, so if you do not convict one, you should not convict another. This is violated daily by un-Godly governments who selectively enforce their laws to "make examples" of people. Such selective enforcement is neither fair or just.
How appropriate since they did just what he spoke against the very next day.
from the Debian private list that I am not bound to silence on
Anthony Towns
to debian-private
Hi,
It's my regret to report that the Debian Account Managers, James Troup
and Joerg Jaspert, have decided to expel Ted Walther (aka Jonathan
Walther, with IRC nicks SirDibos, SirDinosaur, Dinosaur, and account
name krooger@debian.org) from the project.
Ted has been a continuing source of disturbance within the project, and
whether deliberately or accidently has repeatedly acted in ways to provoke
other members of the project and make their participation in both the
project at large and DebConf 6 in particular difficult and uncomfortable.
The triggering event for this expulsion was a disturbance at the DebConf
Formal Dinner, which I'll detail as best I can in a separate mail.
This has followed a number of other incidents at DebConf 6. The first
of these that has been communicated to me were a number of disruptive
communications with the travel sponsorship team in April, where Ted
attempted to override the deadline for travel sponsorship in various ways
[0].
This was followed in the next few days by complaints regarding the lack
of food conforming to his dietary requirements, which he described as
the "Karaite Jewish version of kashrut" in contrast to Jewish kosher
food. When informed that the vegan/vegetarian menu would conform with
his requirements, and that the hotel would not be able to conform with
his requirements otherwise, he responded by accusing the organisers of
"kosher discrimination", and booking a "second rate hotel in a third
world country" where the cooks are "not worth their salt".
In order to ensure that the debconf lists remained useful, his posts
were moderated, with only the mails containing a question others might
be interested in, or some information others might find useful being
allowed through.
Ted's conference registration was accepted, and he obtained room and
food sponsorship for the period of his stay.
After arriving at DebConf, Ted brought along a foam rubber bat
labelled with "clue", and hit a number of organisers and delegates
with i
Re:Ted was not a saint (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.aigarius.com/2006/03/10/interview-with- ted.html [aigarius.com] Aigars interview with Ted, I think really clarifies his thought process.
Aigars by the way is not a fan of Teds, but is honest and I have a lot of respect for him. He even told Ted to his face that "you're getting under my skin", but have respect for that.
Aigars article really explains the Debian woman situation, and having experienced first hand the clique around A
MOD UP - Eyewitness account (purportedly) NT (Score:2)