Will Microsoft Put The Colonel in the Kernel? 359
theodp writes "The kernel meets The Colonel in a just-published Microsoft patent application for an Advertising Services Architecture, which delivers targeted advertising as 'part of the OS.' Microsoft, who once teamed with law enforcement to protect consumers from unwanted advertising, goes on to boast that the invention can 'take steps to verify ad consumption,' be used to block ads from competitors, and even sneak a peek at 'user document files, user e-mail files, user music files, downloaded podcasts, computer settings, [and] computer status messages' to deliver more tightly targeted ads."
Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Funny)
Funniest thing on Slashdot so far today (even if it is only 01:30), but I would have thought General Protection Fault outranks the Colonel
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Funny)
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We can always hope that implementing this will introduce them to Major Disaster...
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sweet! MS did something good for once.
I'm sure they didn't mean to.
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Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:4, Insightful)
-matthew
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Interesting)
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On a flip note, ad supported Vista? Free, but we get to serve you ads?
but a 100% over my dead body for looking at user files!
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What better way to piss off your customers than forcing them to view adds from the OS? This will be great "advertising" for Linux if they are dumb enough to implement it.
Go for it Microsoft.
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Interesting)
So what's going to happen to those who use the nasty online services (dial-up, I think) which already bombard users with ads -- to offset the discount?
Ads on top of ads.
We've gone from sick browsers which supported popup crap, popunder, multiple flashing GIFs on the same web pages (ads). Spam - in many forms.
I can understand ads supporting TV shows -- that's how it stays inexpensive.
So they expect people to pay for these ads but MS isn't going to give a discount. They just don't have to create, sell, and support what I call "Pass the Hat" releases (see Win98 SE and ME) in order to generate money.
This only seals Microsoft's fate as a second-rate software provider.
They've always said they displaced IBM and someone else will replace them, but they aren't going quietly. They still care about being #1, but more importantly, their ultimate fear is in not setting or inventing standards and staying ahead of everyone else.
Only support some versions of HTML but add other features which they state others have to abide by. They weren't HTML-compliant and fill in the tags (or closed them) which people have overlooked. That meant proofreading the things which were IE-only in Netscape, Mozilla, Firefox.[1] They appear to have ignored all of the support of RSS but create their interpretation of the features they want to without regard to what everyone else wants (or supports).
Some media have asserted there are tens (some say hundreds) of thousands of Win2K running in business/corporate settings. Win2K/Office 2000/VS6.0 is probably the most stable of a combination of those three things which Microsoft has produced -- honestly, no matter what you're thinking without a C&C warning.
Businesses don't want to change and see no reason to do so: the hardware they have runs okay, the software is a known evil and things are as stable as they are able to manage. Move to XP or Vista, and it's start all over. New hardware (across the board), new training (especially technical people), new bugs, new support, new everything. Microsoft's Huey, Dewey, and Louie (Marketing, Sales, and PR) haven't found a way to crack that nut...until they started making things, albeit not showstoppers, incompatible with Win2k.
Until they convert those licenses to XP, and more importantly Vista, it's lost revenue, and smaller dividends paid.
Cramming ads into the kernel are their best solution (under the circumstances), hoping the ability to crack it will take some time and be considered risky at best.
All they are doing is telling their little herds of 'softie software is they are getting desperate.
We've gone from IBM mainframes with 3270 screens to desktops to desktops connected to the 'net, the web, and now, (practically) needing nothing but a browser on a dumb PC in order to deal with everything. Figure out where the MS software fits that timeline.
__________________
[1] for a while, it was an easy interview question for HTML people, then ASP. "What happens if things appear on the screen in IE; but a blank screen in browser , but the text is visible when you View|Source?" (unbalanced tags, usually in tables)
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've had it with Microsoft.
I don't think many of us understand the danger of such insidious targeted advertising. What about when the technology is so good it can subtly reformat every article you read, and "customize" every TV show and film you watch in order to influence you to accept a certain set of "truths" or to believe a certain set of facts.
Too late. It's already here and we haven't given a bit of thought to how it's going to change us. But the people who are paying for this have certainly given a great deal of thought to what it's going to do to us.
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What makes you so sure they won't roll it out as an 'update' to XP as well?
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I think this is a great illegal restraint of trade case a-brewing. Let' say I have a web site and I sell advertising. If my ads can be replaced by the ones from Microsoft's sponsors at the last step before my audience's eye balls, then why would any one buy any general consumer advertising from me? (Unless I pay protection money to Microsoft to leave my ads be.)
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Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Informative)
the movie wasn't a telling of the story I, Robot...
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Just sayin...
Re:Wonder when this will be an "important update"? (Score:5, Insightful)
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KFC (Score:4, Funny)
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More Monies Please... (Score:5, Insightful)
What really scares me is that for this to be successful, without some type of backlash from the user community, it would have to be forced on us. As in, forced so you could no longer install another operating system on your computer. Perhaps this is there for when they sue Linux out of oblivion, or at least try to. Otherwise, who would ever use another Microsoft product.
Then again, the data collected from such an endeavor would be so valuable, Microsoft could market computers for free with this software installed. Perhaps that the only other way this is successful.
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So this way Microsoft can beat Google at the targeted ads game.
How standard is this clause? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How standard is this clause? (Score:5, Insightful)
A statement like this in a patent application should be grounds for automatic refusal of said patent. If you can't describe the specific implementation of an "invention"... no patent for you!
-matthew
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Seems awfully vague and encompassing. If this is standard to all patents (or of a certain type) then is it necessary for inclusion?
It's part of the standard boilerplate that most attorneys add when preparing a patent for filing. One patent attorney described it to me as "hopeful".
Clear and obvious, not open to doubt? (Score:3, Insightful)
When the word patent is used as an adjective, one meaning is:
How did we get from that meaning to
And all patents seem to be obfuscated in this way. Perl scripts are more readable - at least those can be interpreted by a machine! Why isn't it a requirement th
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ummmm? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Fixed.
The sound you hear is... (Score:5, Interesting)
After swearing it off since my disaster with RedHat 4, I now know I am going to make the effort to explore Linux again. My email, browsing and documents are mine, and if the OS is capable of poking through them to advance the interests and profits of someone else, then the party is over. I can't trust them when they say they'd never do that; if the capability exists, it will get used at some point in time. I'll keep a windows box for gaming, but not much else, and certainly not any accurate identifable personal information.
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Re:The sound you hear is... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The sound you hear is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The sound you hear is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Your helpful attitude is totally opposite of the attitude I ran into 10 years ago when I asked for help online.
If that's a common reaction, then the Linux comminty has come a long, long way along with the OS and software. I'm looking forward to trying it out and feeling secure again.
Re:The sound you hear is... (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the distribution and your attitude/skill level going into it. Fortunately there are enough distributions that you should be able to find a good match. But regardless of the distribution, I think it is important that one changes one's expectations of what software is. Once you go with open source software, you should expect to take on an attitude of exploration and community. There is no more expecting software to do exactly what you need right out of the box (although Ubuntu has gotten pretty good about this). Nobody owes you anything (you didn't pay for anything). Whatever anyone in the community does for you (whether it is writing the code or supporting it) is purely voluntary. That is both the strength and weakness of free/open source software. Embrace it.
-matthew
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Neither is Windows very good at doing this. Mac OS, well, it comes closer than just about anything to that goal--in my opinion--but nothing is perfect.
It comes down to the fact that everyone is trained to put up with Windows idiosyncrasies, and one has to train himself to become accustomed to another set of idiosyncrasies in an effective transition. It's not hard. Heck,
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I'm talking about one's expectations. Not the quality of the software. Expectations are very important in life. For example, if I buy a box of popcorn at the movies with the expectation that I'll be the only one eating it and someone else thinks I should share it, I might be a little annoyed. But if I buy the popcorn with the expectation that I'll be sharin
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After swearing it off since my disaster with RedHat 4
It might be a good thing to be more specific, as there are now two entirely different Red Hat distributions that could be shortened to Red Hat 4, the ancient Red Hat Linux 4 and the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4, which arrived in February 2005. My guess is that you are referring to the former.
I now know I am going to make the effort to explore Linux again.
Even if you would finally end up with something else, I suggest trying one of Red Hat's recent distributions so that you can compare with the last one you ran. There is the free community-developed and Red Hat-sponso
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http://www.vmware.com/products/player/ [vmware.com]
http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/c
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So I guess this makes Microsoft... (Score:5, Interesting)
So, I guess this officially makes Microsoft Windows adware/spyware. I wonder if Spybot and Adaware will now remove Windows as part of it's run-through. One can certainly hope so.
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Now this new thing called claria... that must be ok, it sounds legit.
In all honesty though, at a guess they will introduce this on a cheaper version of windows, thus using advertising money to subsidies the selling, plus they can give them away in 3rd world countries and be seen to be doing humanitarian work, when in actual fact it is cruel and vicious to inflict on people, maybe they could use it at Guantanamo on "clients" that regu
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Oh please. You don't need to "subsidize" the selling of software. A copy of software is worth no more than the media it is written on, the box it is packed in, and the paper the EULA is printed on. If there is no media (i.e., you download it), any sale is pure profit.
T
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I guess all those costs like developer salaries, computers, etc that are incured while writing software don't exist then? There's a hell of a lot more to the cost of a piece of software than just the CD/DVD that it's shipped on.
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Sure, the source code has value. I wouldn't dispute that (here). But the COPIES of the compiled binaries are not worth anything more than the media they're printed on. One can make infinite copies of software for virtually no cost.. If a software company sells 1,000 copies or a 1,0
Yeek... (Score:4, Informative)
Depends.. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
General Stallman trumps Colonel Gates (Score:2)
First spyware, now adware (Score:4, Insightful)
This is their "innovation" (Score:5, Interesting)
You see, they look at Google and do not get jealous of Google's achievements per se, they get jealous of Google's revenue streams and hence are attacking the revenue stream (advertising) without adding value to the consumer.
Now, you may argue that this bloatware will make the OS cheaper, but what I think will likely happen over the long run (if this ever goes through) is that the cheapest OS will cost the same and people will have to buy a "premium" version to avoid the ads. If people complain, Microsoft will point out that they got the ad-supported version "free" with the OEM computer (while not mentioning the OEM also paid for that copy).
Mod Parent Up (Score:2)
Microsoft Puts Corporations before Customers (Score:2)
The invention can 'take steps to verify ad consumption,' be used to block ads from competitors, and even sneak a peek at'user document files, user e-mail files, user music files, downloaded podcasts, computer settings, [and] computer status messages' to deliver more tightly targeted ads.
This is a stunning example of why I refuse to use Microsoft products. They put the wishes of corporations before that of their customers. I will be highly surprised if this is an opt-in "service" - hell, I'll eat my hat if it's even opt-out.
The only reason Microsoft still has any customers is because most of the computer-using world is locked into using their products by default. If Microsoft were just starting out today, they'd never get anywhere with priorities like this. Hell, if you could go back to
Corporations are the customers... (Score:2)
Here's the obligatory... (Score:2)
Not yours. (Score:5, Funny)
When I first heard the name "Trusted Computing," I thought, "hey, great; does this, like, mean I can make clicky-clicky on links in the sketchiest of web pages without gasping in shock at the horrors of pathological proctology?" Then, of course, came the awful truth.
This evening, upon reading the name "Advertising Services Architecture," I thought, "hey, great; is this a cool new enabling technology that will this help me sell more stuff and make more money on eBay?" Then, yet again, came the awful truth, as pointed out in the link to this article.
As far as I know, these are but three of the 100 reasons [microsoft.com] I'll be speechless for Microsoft Vista. Or saying "Wow!" But: Is there some context in the English language in which "Wow!" means "I've got an axe buried in my head?" (Being speechless does, after all, seem to be an appropriate response to such trauma, and so I was trying to make the connection between the two.) Because after all the all the aforementioned truths, after finding out that this vast infrastructure for which I'm paying has nothing to do whatsoever with that for which I want to use a computer, well, that's kind of what I imagine it feels like.
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I'm not sure if this is the proper spelling, but I think it's something like "Aaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww!"
At least there's a ten-second Conan clip. (Score:2)
Meanwhile, does watching that commercial subsidize the cost of your fuel? None at all.
I realize that what holds true for Shell may not necessarily hold true for Microsoft. But I somehow find it perfectly reasonable to think so.
Just wait until you see... (Score:2)
Candidates are already signing up for the beta.
Free edition (Score:2)
I seriously doubt even MS would put this in the mainstream paid for consumer OS.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
The inhumanisation of marketing: Badvertising (Score:4, Insightful)
A TV station that markets to you during your favorite program [consumerist.com]
Advertisements that come inserted into your bills
You are required, at your place of employment to endure compulsory marketing.
What's next, tatoos in the inside of eyelids when you're born?
In the world of marketing it seems there are no bad ideas. Overstep boundaries, go to far, garner enough negative attention and you're still golden. It's about brand recognition, not about stimulating support for a product.
Personally I've become revolted by all forms of marketing. I'm "turned off and tuned out"... to paraphrase what I feel.
I'm waiting for a consumer revolution in a world of sheep.
Ummm, No (Score:2)
That's it I've had it. I'm just gonna start answering every rhetorical question asked by Slashdot.
Be Evil (Score:2)
I'm going to cheer on Ballmer and the rest of the crew at Microsoft if they decide to implement this. That, and I want them to turn up the knob to 11 for OGA and WGA. Advertize at the lusers, and make them pay to get it.
The Microsoft employee who thought this up deserves a promotion and a raise in pay.
I'm waiting for them to "monetize the eschaton"
"Crowley had been extremely impressed with the warranties offered by the
Is MS abandoning the software business? (Score:5, Insightful)
First we get Vista, with a reported 20+ services phoning home with enough detail to make what Redmond get personally identifiable, not to mention that the Business version in my experience is an absolute dog to run compared to XP or Linux on the same "Vista approved" hardware. So we have instant privacy and security problems that come with the package, and new code which will take another year to become actually safe and usable (cute visuals do not maketh a usable business OS, especially if you have to retrain everyone - might as well take the plunge and retrain them on Macs or Linux).
Then we get the latest Office, which will work in Microsoft's attempt to create an 'Open' file format. That effort has mainly demonstrated that they (a) don't know what Open means, (b) don't see what their customers are asking for and (c) don't care about the previous two aspects, to the point of not understanding that their effort is alienating their increasingly savvy customers.
What's more, the 'Open' documentation has already given rise to the question if their flawed Excel spreadsheet functions (as documented) are new defects, or simply the first documentation of an already existing flawed interpretation of the laws of mathematics - any calculation done on an Excel spreadsheet to report financial results could now be seen as breaking diligence. In other words, using Excel knowingly may even carry a risk of criminal charges (IMHO, IANAL). Which executive would want that risk, especially with lower cost alternatives at hand that support a file format than can be machine processed and has been accepted at EU level?
However, MS trying to move into other markets hasn't been quite the success they'd hoped for either. Huge repair bills for Xbox, Zune zonked, and a lot of suppliers opting for a less license encumbered OS in their phones - it's all looking a tad shabby for your average clued up investor. Not a stock I'd keep on my portfolio, and following the progression other companies have made I think death by lawyer (suing your customers) cannot be far away.
And now, new idea, they're trying to move ads beyond your control into the core OS. Oh yes, that really will help drive up productivity in an office. And it'll be a primary risk vector if it gets infected.
Oh, yeah, I forgot, any new MS OS is the safest ever. Shame it still gets hacked before it's even launched. Talk about losing credibility..
Sure, I'm probably just a Mac/Linux fanboy. Isn't it irritating that even the less vocal ones in that category get proven right all the time? I don't choose an OS because of its fanbase, I chose it because it works for my business and I can see through the FUD (and OK, we're not a thousand seat business). I've had one office on OO exclusively now for 6 months, and no client has even noticed the difference - they're now switching to Linux completely. All the other offices are busy being switched to all Open Source based software in the next few months (using the holiday season), with the occasional Mac thrown in for graphics work.
And you know the best news? No virus problems, no daily 'reboot now' updates, no Genuine Advantage, no BSA/FAST worries.
It Just Works.
Okay, that does it... (Score:2, Insightful)
This may be Microsoft's answer to Google (Score:5, Interesting)
This may be Microsoft's answer to Google. And, incidentally, to Linux.
Microsoft already has a tiered operating system - the "business model" version of Vista is significantly more expensive than the "consumer model". The logical extension of this is a free consumer model with ads, and an expensive business model without ads.
This has many advantages for Microsoft. First, it's an answer to Google, which is ad-supported but doesn't have much of a lock-in mechanism, like Microsoft does. Second, it's an answer to Linux - preloaded consumer grade Windows becomes ad-supported, which is probably worth more than the current preload charge. It even helps Microsoft deal with piracy. The consumer version will be free. The business version will come with mandatory online services (they'll call it something like "Managed Workgroups") that will tie it to the mothership in Redmond.
How crazy is this? (Score:2)
the system or user?
If this isn't some sort of a sick joke then Microsoft need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and consider what they've become.
It amazes me (especially after this announcement) how blatantly Microsoft can prove their priorities have nothing to do with the user yet still some businesses and even governments consider purchasing Microsoft products first.
Those managers in pur
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Cool! I'll make lots of money removing the crap! (Score:2)
wtf? (Score:2)
Probably be for Consumers Only. (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe Not as Bad as It Seems (Score:3, Insightful)
It's also possible that this is intended for another go at a DVR. Not that I would store documents on my DVR, it seems logical to want to be able to throw ads in there in the most efficient way possible.
However, if taken at first glance, it appears Microsoft has truly come up with yet another innovative way to make Windows an even more awful user experience. Way to go, Microsoft!
We may not get better security... (Score:3, Funny)
Chris Mattern
Mercy sakes, you are ignorant (Score:5, Funny)
^Bump^ (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed, my first thought was that MS is just one-upping Google in the Advertising wars.
Though I think the difference is fairly obvious: Google is an optional service for 100% of the computer using market. Using Microsoft Windows is not so optional for ~90% of the market.
I can't imagine that very many companies will be able to subsidize Windows Vista 2020 licenses through advertising, where
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Microsoft: Convicted monopoly. If you are in business, you often don't have any choice but to use their crapware. If you buy a computer, you get Windows preinstalled or you buy a Mac for a lot more. They load trojans (it breaks the OS, so it's a trojan) under the pretense of installing critical updates. Threatens to sue people for using competing open source software. Illegally crushes all competitors. Now they want to load your personal computer with popup ads and spy on you even more.
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"If you buy a computer, you get Windows preinstalled or you buy a Mac for a lot more"
untrue, white boxes are easily obtainable.
"They load trojans (it breaks the OS, so it's a trojan)"
mmm no ok, windows runs just fine, it's when OEM's add 50 crapware applications written by "learn to code in 2 weeks" programmers that it falls over.
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When WGA screws up your system because it falsely decides you have pirated Windows, it's no better than a trojan.
Re:Free OS (Score:5, Funny)
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Regarding Sr. Manjusha's Comment (Score:2, Funny)
Too bad.
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I'll go one stage further and guess that not only is it free but compulsory. I bet this will get buried in some 'security patch' that Windows Update will not let you avoid.
defensive patent? (Score:3, Interesting)