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Debian Announces Sarge Will Include GNOME 2.8 276

Posted by timothy from the catching-up-is-the-best-revenge dept.
El Cubano writes "A recent posting to the debian-devel-announce mailing list announces that Sarge will release with GNOME 2.8. From the announcement: 'After requests and a detailed proposal from the GNOME team, we accepted an upload of GNOME 2.8 into sid, and, via the usual mechanisms, into sarge. We should mention that the release team was running out of objections to GNOME 2.8 in unstable that the GNOME team hasn't satisfactorily addressed; this, and the fact that they have demonstrated good reaction times of late are the main reasons why we're approving it despite the timing.'"
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Debian Announces Sarge Will Include GNOME 2.8 More

Debian Announces Sarge Will Include GNOME 2.8

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  • Sarge Will Include GNOME 2.8 (Score:5, Funny)

    by gowen ( 141411 ) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:33AM (#10962040) Homepage Journal
    And its scheduled for release at roughly the same time as Saddam Hussein

  • Is Armagaedon upon us? (Score:4, Funny)

    by AlanS2002 ( 580378 ) <sanderal2@@@hotmail...com> on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:35AM (#10962049) Homepage
    Debian incorporating newly released software into stable in less than two years, who would of though.
    • You forget that it won't be in stable until Sarge is released as stable, at the moment it's just in testing. Expect the actual release just after Duke Nukem Forever.
    • They aren't incorporating into stable though. They're incorporating it into testing, which by the sound of it, won't be released until next year, despite earlier projected release dates.
    • Maybe they ran out of people who bother to use "stable", since so many tools there are deprecated and a monster to maintain?

      The Debian "stable" vs. unstable seems to match the new RedHat "Enteprise" releases vs. the new "FEdora". Maybe Debian can shorten their transfer time and testing enough to use "stable" for production servers? I know a bunch of people who'd like that.

      • Re:Is Armagaedon upon us? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by arose ( 644256 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:12AM (#10962205)
        Stable is for people who need an unchanging system (no, I'm not one of them), please leave it alone.

      • Re:Is Armagaedon upon us? (Score:4, Informative)

        by Zach Garner ( 74342 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:25AM (#10962277)

        The Debian "stable" vs. unstable seems to match the new RedHat "Enteprise" releases vs. the new "FEdora". Maybe Debian can shorten their transfer time and testing enough to use "stable" for production servers? I know a bunch of people who'd like that.

        We [awarix.com] [beware of the Marketing people's use of shockwave and flash] already do that. I'm sure many others do to. We count on stable being secure and reliable. We're ok with it being relatively slow moving, if that's what it takes. A few select applications, such as X11VNC [karlrunge.com] are brought in from testing or unstable, or made into custom packages internally. It works great.

        We would like to see some newer software make it's way into stable, such as subversion. Right now I run a mixed testing/unstable at work, and a mixed unstable/experimental at home. I've never had a problem, though I do take time to understand what the effects of an update will be on the unstable and especially the experimental applications.
        • Here's what I do: on top of a stable Debian, I run a chrooted sid. Pronto! I get the best of both (ideally, I should be using testing instead of sid, since I'm not a Debian developer).
          My point being that you get the best of both worlds. It is ridiculously easy to set up a chroot jail in Debian. "Google and ye shall find."

  • KDE (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ultrabot ( 200914 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:36AM (#10962053)
    How about KDE 3.3?

    Not that it really matters anymore - many of whom have been waiting for Sarge have got with the program and switched to Ubuntu [ubuntulinux.org].

    • Re:KDE (Score:5, Informative)

      by coekie ( 603995 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:39AM (#10962066) Homepage
      Actualy reading the announcement would have answered your question: "In the meantime, we were also asked why we decided to go with KDE 3.2, and if it would be possible to go with KDE 3.3 instead. The main reason is that KDE 3.3 in unstable started with some RC bugs, and there was no proposal from the KDE team how to proceed. The door is only closed, but not locked for KDE 3.3. We are still open for proposals how to sort the KDE 3.3 issues out, and there has been some productive discussion of late about that - but no final decision yet."

      • Re:KDE (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @12:19PM (#10963686) Homepage Journal
        KDE 3.3.1 is stable enough to where I'm relying on it on my ThinkPad. Sid is your friend. Gotta love the improved Konqui.

        Oh yeah, and KDE has none of these problems that people are reporting with GNOME. Snappy performance on a Pentium II Mobile 400MHz. I daresay even snappier than the install of Windows 2000 SP4 on the other partition.

        There is no reason why people running personal Debian desktop systems shouldn't liberally add Sid packages to their system. What Debian.Org calls "unstable" is actually ready for prime time on non-critical machines.

        If you run a critical server, go with Woody aka Stable. If you can live a little on the edge with your server, run Sarge/Testing/Release Candidate. If you are setting up a desktop for Grandma, use Sarge with no Sid packages. For everyone else, live on the edge, baby! ^_^
    • How about KDE 3.3?
      RTFA, why don't you?
      It says that they were asked about KDE 3.3, but felt it was too buggy ("The main reason is that KDE 3.3 in unstable started with some RC bugs".) They also mention that big upgrades of both KDE and Gnome at the same time would be harmful to their sanity...
    • People who have "got with the program and switched to Ubuntu" aren't the target audience of Sarge. Sarge is for users who want to use an unchanging base system for well over a year.

  • good for debian, good for users (Score:4, Informative)

    by feepcreature ( 623518 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:36AM (#10962054) Homepage
    Gnome 2.8 is stable enough in ubuntu [ubuntulinux.org], so it's good to see it being used back in debian.

    Also, this might help combat the "Debian [stable] never includes new stuff" meme. Another good thing.

  • FYI (Score:4, Funny)

    by bionicyeti ( 715949 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:41AM (#10962075)
    Garden Gnome 1.0 is scheduled for release on my lawn this spring...

  • applicable Star Wars quote (Score:5, Funny)

    by for_usenet ( 550217 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @08:57AM (#10962151)
    Luke: What is it Obi-Wan ?

    OWK: I felt a deep disturbance in the force. It was as if Debian decided to be more current with their packages.

  • Almost time for regular users to run testing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by martinde ( 137088 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:02AM (#10962168) Homepage
    I've been running stable (woody) since it came out, and it has served me well. I started using Adrian Bunk's backports, and then selected things from backports.org... Then I upgraded to KDE from downloads.kde.org, and then openoffice from some other backport collection. Amazingly enough, this collection of software worked well enough for me.

    I recently took the plunge and converted a couple of machines to testing (soon to be sarge). First thing I will say is that even with all of the backports, the upgrade went very smoothly. And I'll also say that sarge is working well for me; so well that I've installed it on several other machines using the new debian-installer rc candidates, and that has worked flawlessly for me as well!

    As soon as security update support is up and running for testing, anyone remotely interested in sarge should consider upgrading and filing bug reports as appropriate. This is how you can help speed up the "real" release of sarge!

    And I do think that when sarge comes out, it's going to be an excellent platform. It is so much nicer about hardware autodetection, font handling, and about a million other things... Without losing any of the old things that you love about Debian.

    Lets hope that the next stable release doesn't take too long, although given Debian's nature, it's hard to see how it won't... Assuming the official compiler moves to gcc 3.4 (or the upcoming 4.0), then there is going to be another painful transition for all of those C++ applications. Hopefully someday g++ will have a stable C++ ABI and those transitions won't be an issue for projects shipping C++ libraries... (This was one of the major issues for getting KDE into unstable earlier this year.)

  • x.org (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sewagemaster ( 466124 ) <sewagemaster&gmail,com> on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:14AM (#10962211) Homepage
    anyone know whether x.org will make it into sarge as well?

  • How about these? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:15AM (#10962217)
    PostgreSQL 8,
    PHP 5,
    Tomcat 5.0.x (5.5 would probably be pushing it a little..),
    Sun jdk1.5?

  • I haven't been in the army... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Buchenskjoll ( 762354 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:16AM (#10962220)
    is Sarge Will someone I should know? I am familiar with General Failure, though.

  • Release date (Score:3, Funny)

    by kbewley ( 461756 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @09:44AM (#10962394)
    Yah! A Debian insider is reported to have said that the Sarge release will form part of a bundle with Duke Nukem Forever.

  • Now that's a first (Score:3, Funny)

    by __aahlyu4518 ( 74832 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:00AM (#10962484)
    Gnome 2.8 isn't older than 12 months and it is already included !! WOW

    Well... we'll still have to wait for Sarge to be released as STABLE. That could take another while... ;-)
  • Maybe they're just looking for more "objections to GNOME 2.8 in unstable".
    • You mean so that they can, YET AGAIN, delay the release of sarge?

      I mean, COME ON debian, how many times have they said that its going to be released 'Real Soon Now'... I've been hearing that for over a year.
      • OSS will be unbeatable when we achieve Open Project Management. Since closed-source project management is so abyssmal, I expect this holy grail will remain lost forever - and OSS remain beatable.

  • As a Debian user myself... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Cyn ( 50070 ) <(cyn) (at) (cyn.org)> on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:46AM (#10962844) Homepage
    I have to ask, who the hell runs stable on a desktop - and who would want to?

    If you want stability, testing provides plenty of it. If you don't want to update often - just don't update (often). If you really need rock solid core stability, but want newer desktop software - then run stable with apt-pining for testing or unstable, and only install what you know you want from testing/unstable.

    If you want a Debian desktop with frequent releases without all this crap, use Ubuntu :P

    Stable is supposed to be the rock solid hardware, and the only things that should change should be when there's a bugfix or security fix. The point of it is you can basically rest assured that when running updates, shit won't ever break. I don't mean just "PAM broke!" break, I mean config overwritten, changed options, etc. break. The system for all intents and purposes could be set to automatically grab updates and run for years.

    Disclaimer: I've never used Ubuntu, I'm a Debian man who suffers the trials of using apt-pining just like everyone else who wants this should have to!
    • If you want stability, testing provides plenty of it.

      Testing is rarely usable. In fact, it's often more broken than Sid, or at least the broken state lasts longer with Testing. YMMV.

      If you want a Debian desktop with frequent releases without all this crap, use Ubuntu :P

      I agree. Ubuntu has been very solid for me, and I wouldn't be surprised if even Hoary Hedgehog went stable before Sarge.
      • Testing is rarely usable.

        Really? I've been running it on several machines (desktop and server) for most of this year and it has been rock-solid for me. What has broken for you lately?

        • What has broken for you lately?

          Dependencies between packages have been broken - I've been unable to install various packages because their deps have not been available. This rarely happens with Sid, which is what I'm running on my "server" role machine.
    • I have to ask, who the hell runs stable on a desktop - and who would want to?

      If I was rolling out a set of desktops for corporate usage, stable is ideal. You don't want testing, which is prone to breaking dependancies (unless you're near freezing time), nor do you want unstable - you don't want to be troubleshooting brand new packages, you need them to just work.

      With stable, you have rock solid security support, very few if any changes, and all package upgrades are tested far more than any other rep
      • But what is Debian Stable's policy on non-security bugs?

        If you stick with stable, will you be stuck with bugs in packages that are fixed in a minor point release of the pacakged software? This could get annoying if so: the users either have to live with the bug or you have to create custom packages, defeating the point of using the distro in the first place.

        For example: OpenOffice 1.1.2 has some annoying bugs in it that are fixed in 1.1.3. If I installed a stable debian release with 1.1.2, would 1.1.3 eve
  • For those of us who are geeks but not linux users:

    someone want to define (or at least provide a link) to wtf "sarge" is in this context?

    Yes, I could google for it, but (1) I'm too lazy and (2) that's really the editor's job, isn't it?

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