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Microsoft Businesses The Almighty Buck

Mario Monti Fines Microsoft 100 Million? 335

Posted by Hemos from the lots-of-talking dept.
n3k5 writes "EU competition commissioner Mario Monti has been in the news a lot lately, following "[...] a preliminary decision that Microsoft is breaking European law by abusing its dominant position in the personal computers' market. However, [the Commission] needs to carry out a series of consultations before finalising its verdict, due by May 1." (Financial Times article) The latest articles all cite German magazine FOCUS, which reports in its current issue that, according to "informed" EU sources, the Commission is considering imposing a record fine of EUR 100,000,000 (USD 123,840,000) on Microsoft. "Amelia Torries, a spokeswoman for Monti, dismissed the report as 'pure and utter speculation.'" (Channel NewsAsia article)"
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Mario Monti Fines Microsoft 100 Million? More

Mario Monti Fines Microsoft 100 Million?

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  • I, for one,... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:18AM (#8158630)
    ...welcome our new first-posting Microsoft-suing overlords!
  • Oh yeah, that's gonna hurt. That's right up there with you or me getting a speeeding ticket for doing 27 in a 25 zone.

  • You realize what this will mean! (Score:5, Funny)

    by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:20AM (#8158662)
    No more free grande latte refills...on Tuesday. Actually, every other Tuesday.

    That'll teach'em.

  • Headline: EU Fines Microsoft $100,000,000! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ssclift ( 97988 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:21AM (#8158672)

    Next column:

    Microsoft shares fall $0.02!

    Ohhh... nasty... fined ~$0.30 for each person in the EU...

    Slap another two zeros on that and you would be talking about a serious fine.

  • Cost of doing business? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by erick99 ( 743982 ) * <homerun@gmail.com> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:21AM (#8158675)
    If this fine is imposed and Microsoft decides to pay it (possibly after years of litigating), it still represents a little less than 2% of annual profits if we use a fairly conservative estimate of $6 billion dollars in annual profits. Perhaps, for Microsoft, this would simply be a cost of doing business.

    Happy Trails,

    Erick

    • But maybe the Eu has stricter regs regarding purchasing from illegal monopolies? It should be that no public government can purchase anything new from a criminal organization. If no viable alternative exists, fine the criminal org wahtever amount is enough to fund the creation of an alternative.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • FUD,FUD,FUD. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jotaeleemeese ( 303437 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @03:33PM (#8161485) Homepage Journal
          Those "everyone" do not seem to have any problem to move from Windows3.11 to Windows95 and from ther to WindowsNT or Windows2000, and from there to WindowsXP.

          All those migrations are not smooth, many things change (as we can attest by the great side business that teaching MS software is, a whole industry in helping people use the "user friendly" products of MS reaps the benefits).

          It is completely disingineous to see people migrating all the time to very different software platforms whose only similarity is the name of the manufacturer and then deny that that same peoplsomehow would become stupid if they would need to migrate to OSS solutions.

          Pure and adultereted FUD and patronizing of users covered by the sheepskin of concern for loss of productivity.
    • Perhaps, for Microsoft, this would simply be a cost of doing business.

      It would be an AVOIDABLE cost of doing business. Complying with the law would mean they would not have to have this expense, now or in the future.

  • Not enough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by IamGarageGuy 2 ( 687655 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:22AM (#8158689) Journal
    Why do they simply give them a fine? This is behavior that deserves more than just paying a fine. MS has no trouble coming up with cash. If a few top level execs got thrown into jail it may make a bit of difference. Reminds me of the joke of only having to shoot one politician and the rest tend to fall into line.

    • Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Senjaz ( 188917 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @12:13PM (#8159206) Homepage
      There is a limited amount they can actually do since MS is not based here. Most of their options involve syphoning money from them in one form or another. The EU can't do what the US courts should have done in breaking MS up or some other stiffer penalty. The best we can do is hit them with a bill so large it actually makes them feel it or stop them from selling their software in Europe (which isn't going to happen)

      • Re:Not enough (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        WRONG. The local offices are seperate entities and can be sued to oblivion in the country they are registered.

        Microsoft CORP maybe in the US but Microsoft Ireland is NOT, Microsoft Sweden is NOT, Microsoft France is NOT.

        Plenty of places to hit.

    • Fines on corporations are merely taxes on consumer (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Shivetya ( 243324 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @12:35PM (#8159436) Homepage Journal
      They need to put the people in jail. Find the MS-Euro chiefs who knowningly followed this path of exploitation and lock them up.

      A fine against a corporation is just like a tax against a corporation. It is an embedded tax on the consumer. Whether or not many EU people buy MS products they will be paying this "fine". Simply put too many companies and governments use MS products which spreads the cost.

      Another alternative would be for the EU to use it as an excuse to move to a linux variant or encourage the schools and other public institutions to do so.

      Again, a fine is just a tax, so don't be cheering up that tax you will be paying.

      • Re:Fines on corporations are merely taxes on consu (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @01:11PM (#8159733) Journal
        It is an embedded tax on the consumer.

        Normally, this is true. However, when discussing a company with billions in the bank, I think this is false. The company is not forced to raise prices to recoup the loss. In fact, the entire point of the fine is that the prices were already raised.

        A tax on a company is a tax on consumers when the company is just barely staying afloat (which really describes most companies)... of course the customers may leave if it gets bad enough so it's still not a tax. (And again, the entire point is monopoly abuse, that customers can't just leave, so again, I don't think your comment applies in this case.)

        I don't think any EU customers are going to see price hikes as a result of this; that would just get MS another, probably larger fine.

  • In related news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Your_Mom ( 94238 ) <slashdot@i[ ]smir.net ['nni' in gap]> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:22AM (#8158693) Homepage
    Microsoft replied... "Cash or Check?"

  • Austin Powers obligatory joke (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:22AM (#8158702)
    EU: We fine you ... One hundred ... million dollars (pinky finger to the lip)

    Microsoft Board : bwahahahaahhaahahahah
    • You can change EU for US in the following quotes if you feel it suits you better:

      EU: Why make trillions when we could make...Billions?

      EU: No, because Bill Gates has "mojo". It's what the French call a certain 'I don't know what.'

      EU: Begin the unnecessarily slow-moving litigation mechanism!

      EU: As you know, every diabolical scheme I've hatched has been thwarted by Bill Gates. And why is that, ladies and gentlemen?
      Consumer: Because you never kill him when you get the chance, and you're a dope?

      Bill

  • Clueless EU (Score:5, Funny)

    by 0x54524F4C4C ( 712971 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:23AM (#8158718)

    They may also wish these 100M to be paid in windows licenses, preferably to use in schools.

  • Not nearly enough. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:24AM (#8158723)
    Legal fees: $5,000,000
    1.2% of quarterly revenue: $120,000,000
    Settling a lawsuit which slows your progress towards Complete World Domination: Priceless

    Some things money can't buy. Everything else will soon be owned by Microsoft.
    • They are not settling. EU has shown clear signs they are not interested in a settlement. This is a fine and means "guilty as charged". There is a psychological difference, if not a financial one.

    • Re:Not nearly enough. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      it's not a settlement, and by all means it's not a "keep doing what you're doing" pat on the back.

      if they keep fuckin around it's easy to determine that, and the _fine_ will return as a bigger one. all that said I'm pretty disappointed in the fine being so small, though that's how you deal with things I guess(starting with small fines and ending up with big fines if they keep doing what they're doing..).

      like you paint your house without checking with the citys cityscape planning offficials and them not li

  • Fines are meaningless. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:24AM (#8158730) Homepage Journal

    This is just business as usual for Microsoft. Fines are a blip on the bottom line for a particular quarter. The MS war chest is huge, diverting a small percentage of revenue to the chest allows them to pay fines with money they took from you illegally in the first place.

    Better idea for the governments: take the money then spend it on promoting open source and non-monopolistic software within your own countries.

  • Calculation (Score:5, Informative)

    by lonb ( 716586 ) * on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:25AM (#8158739) Homepage
    I wonder what the calculation is for MSFT to determine how valuable this settlement is? I mean, their stock price [smartmoney.com] has been held in abeyance while the EU was trying to finalize the case. This is one of the last major legal cases for MSFT. After this, their 80 billion (or whatever) in cash reserves can be pumped into kicking the crap out of the rest of the industry.

    MSFT has 10,805,000,000 outstanding shares. An increase of $0.009 will generate the $100M in shareholder value. If the stock price

  • Newsflash - fines are useless (Score:5, Insightful)

    by starseeker ( 141897 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:25AM (#8158741) Homepage
    What's the incentive for Microsoft to stop their abuse? The abuse nets more money than any fine is likely to take away, and is the quickest way to make $$ back after the fine. This won't solve a darn thing.

    The effective solutions (start multiple companies off with the Windows source code and have them compete, for example) are very radical, and I don't know if most of them are in the power of the EU. But if the US government is any example, the will to use them isn't there anyway, so Microsoft can write their check and go back to business as usual.

    • Not just fines. (Score:5, Informative)

      by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:37AM (#8158879) Journal
      What's the incentive for Microsoft to stop their abuse?
      The fines are only part of the (purported) action taken against Microsoft. They will also be forced to stop bundling Media Player with Windows, and more importantly, they will be forced to disclose information on Windows (possibly, hopefully also Office) internals and formats, allowing other companies to compete more effectively with Microsoft when developing software to run on Windows.

      My fear is that MS will fight this decision tooth and nail, and that in the end the EU will take the easy way out, settling for just the cash. The EU will have their 'win'; MS can proceed with business as usual after ponying up some chump change.

      I'd rather see MS keep their money but made tot comply with the other demands.
      • They will also be forced to stop bundling Media Player with Windows

        For fucks sake. I actually enjoy being able to install an operating system and using it right out of the box as opposed to having to go on an internet scavanger hunt for the crap I need to actually make the thing useless.

        Yay, let's legislate the technology back to 1887!

  • Microsoft hat to disclose API (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tmk ( 712144 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:25AM (#8158743)
    The Focus articles states that Microsoft hat to disclose "important informations about Windows" to their competition. I think that means the Windows-API. This would prevent further offences. Could WINE get advantages out of it?

  • EUR100M *could* hurt (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:26AM (#8158750) Homepage Journal
    EU: We are fining you EUR100M....

    MS: *Yawn* Can you make change for EUR1B?

    EU: ... And we are going to give it all to the FSF.
    • Nice point. I wonder what $125 million could do if it were invested in open source (I wouldn't want to see it ALL go to the FSF). If you threw a million each into 125 projects like Mozilla, Perl, Apache, KDE, GNOME, etc.. you could pay for 20 full-time developers on each project at a livable $50k per annum (we free software folks are frugal sorts anyway). That $125 million could get 2500 developers working full time on open source projects for a year.. and that could certainly tip the scales for having Linu

  • speculation? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:26AM (#8158753)
    Amelia Torries, a spokeswoman for Monti, dismissed the report as 'pure and utter speculation.'

    But I heard it on Slashdot! It must be true!
  • Thats 200'000 of the pink ones guys.

    We will accept 150'000 and 4 stations.

  • Please do not accept coupons for MS products... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by aphor ( 99965 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:30AM (#8158799) Journal

    I am begging any europeans reading this to make a holy noise about "COUPONS FOR MICROSOFT PRODUCTS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED IN LIEU OF CASH". It's bad enough that we have Jethro Clampett in the US presidency, in charge of the USDoJ and the people's interest in the MS antitrust issue. Please help make sure the goon's mistakes are not mirrored in the EU! Also, don't accept any namby-pamby payment plans. Get the lump-sum immediately, or seize assets and slap extra fines for delaying payment.

    • Dude, no offense, but we're talking an anti-trust case, not a civil class action suit, and not a consumer rights suit. Do you know the difference?

      Well, in case you don't: let's just say that here we're talking about breaking the law, _not_ about compensating people who bought Windows '95.

      I don't think anyone's ever paid in vouchers for breaking the law. Far as I know, not even in the USA.

      It's like when a taxi gets stopped for speeding: they'll just give him/her the fine, not make him/her give away taxi v

  • and in other news... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Albanach ( 527650 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:30AM (#8158801) Homepage
    following the EU's decision to let Microsoft off on a good behaviour bond, the EU will deploy 50,000 Windows clients and 800 Windows 2k3 servers in a five year deal with Microsoft. Terms could not be disclosed on grounds of commercial confidentiality. Microsoft will also be providing five free copies of Office XP to schools throughout the EU.

  • read more (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:36AM (#8158864) Homepage Journal
    Monti has teeth, and he can be an outright asshole if he wants to - in other words, exactly the right person for this job.

    What's 100 mio? Just a show of teeth, not a bite. Almost certainly (as with prior cases), it won't be "pay and continue", it'll be "pay and stop, and if you don't stop, we'll be doubling the fine and ask again, repeating until you do stop."

  • What is this meant to accomplish? (Score:5, Informative)

    by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:36AM (#8158870) Homepage
    Microsoft's Home Entertainment division threw $348 MILLION away in the last QUARTER for which numbers are available, due to their policy of trying to grab a hold of the console market by selling their console at such a massive loss that licensing fees don't begin to make up for it. Think about this. This is about $100 million PER MONTH.

    If MS will cheerfully spend $100 million a month to *potentially* expand their monopoly into a new market-- basically gaining customers by largely paying for the customers' products for them-- how exactly is $100 million going to make a difference as a fine? Isn't the idea of antitrust remedy to do something to convince the company to not perform their anticompetitive actions again? $100 million isn't just something MS would happily pay to maintain their monopoly, it's LESS than they're ALREADY spending to maintain their monopoly.

    If this does turn out to be more than just rumors, this isn't a penalty for monopolistic status and anticompetitive action; it's a tax, a "ok, go on as you have, but give us some money for the privilidge to do so", and a measly one at that.

  • under a billion (Score:3, Funny)

    by ajagci ( 737734 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:37AM (#8158873)
    A fine under a billion dollars is a round-off error to Microsoft.

  • FOCUS (Score:2, Informative)

    by scabbers ( 320851 )
    I just like to add that the magazine "FOCUS" does not have the best reputation about the correctness of the things they claim to know :-)

  • Good luck, EU. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:39AM (#8158892)
    Microsoft owe me forty quid from November and it's like getting blood out of a stone.

  • Some details (Score:5, Informative)

    by gordguide ( 307383 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:43AM (#8158920)
    The EU could assess a maximum fine of 2.5 billion Euros if Microsoft is found to have engaged in anti-competitive behavior.

    Without regard for what many believe to be MS's list of anti-competitive actions, the EU complaint centers on two issues and those issues alone determine the findings and penalty (if any):

    Microsoft is accused by the EU of trying to squelch rival products to its Windows Media Player, such as RealPlayer and Apple QuickTime.

    Microsoft has also been accused of trying to squeeze out other firms in the market for "low-end servers" -- computers that provide e-mail and other services to multiple users and might run rival open-source software.

    Anything else, no matter how guilty MS is of doing so, isn't part of the complaint and is moot.

    The remedy proposed by the EU will almost certainly contain other conditions besides monetary penalties. As in the US judgment against MS, it's these conditions which will probably impact MS's future business and income, not the fine.

    It is also widely believed that Microsoft will almost certainly appeal any decision that doesn't vindicate the company; estimates vary but all generally agree a final decision and remedy is years away.

  • Fines are fine, but open is better (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NixLuver ( 693391 ) <stwhite&kcheretic,com> on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:43AM (#8158930) Homepage Journal
    As many have accurately pointed out, this fine is pocket change for Microsoft. Fines, in business, are rarely successful, because they can only be one of two things - irrelevant or destructive.

    Many well-meaning individuals have proposed adding 3 zeros to the fine; this sounds good from an anti-Microsoft standpoint, but it's simply bad for the economy; remember that by fining a corporation ridiculous amounts of cash we don't punish the people that make the poor decisions (CEOs, chairmen, board of directors) but the guys just like us, working to make a living so that we can hack in our spare time and play with our kids.

    There is a better way [slashdot.org], I think. If we force open formats for data storage and network protocols, market penetration will be less useful as leverage to increase the barrier to entry of competition.

    • I'm not one of the guys and I'm fairly certain that not even a very small minority of the people in the world are one of the guys who are on the Microsoft gravy train.
      The assumption that most of Microsoft's billions in financial reserves are going towards paying the salaries of hard working coders is naive in the extreme.
      As has been pointed out, that money is going primarily into funding attempts at new monopolies like the X-Box project where hundreds of millions a month are exhausted, much of it

  • Bill Gates, when hearing the news (Score:5, Funny)

    by vlad_petric ( 94134 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:45AM (#8158946) Homepage
    "Did you say a hundred million ?"

    "Yes, a hundred million"

    "Whew ... for a second I thought you said a hundred billion ..."

  • if it were per day, until they changed their ways. Otherwise its a waste ov everyones time.
  • Amelia Torries, a spokeswoman for Monti, dismissed the report as 'pure and utter speculation.

    OK, so there is no truth to this wild speculation, yet it makes Slashdot.

    Mastrubation is fun, yes?

  • Gates doesn't mind fines (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Larry David ( 738420 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:48AM (#8158965)
    Everyone else has come out with the obvious 'but 100m would be nothing compared to their cash reserves' line.. but forgetting that, Gates doesn't seem to mind fines anyway. He just sees them as a way of getting away with stuff and paying it off.

    If you read many of the Microsoft biographies, you'll read stuff talking about how Gates was heavily into speeding everywhere he went, and was constantly being fined and given tickets. He even ended up in jail for it, which is where the infamous Bill Gates in jail picture came from.

    But who cares? When you're making massive bucks each month, is it worth a few hundred in fines to stop speeding all the time, if you're not going to end up in jail for a long haul? No. Same goes with this. Paying this fine is just a great way of getting the EU off his back without any hard work.

  • Where will the money go? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ViolentGreen ( 704134 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @11:54AM (#8159015)
    Assuming that they do fine Microsoft and Microsoft does pay, where will this $100 million go?

    Will it just go into the EU's wallet or will it go to promote/help alternative OSs? I think that Microsoft definitely has some retribution in store but I think it's important that countries don't look at Microsoft as a blank check that they can use for their purposes.

    The money needs to back to the source (i.e. the alternative OSs that were hurt).

    (I couldn't get to the article because of the necessary subscription so this might be addressed there.)
    • [quote]The money needs to back to the source (i.e. the alternative OSs that were hurt).[/quote]

      it's not so mucht the OSs that are hurt, but more software companies that made browsers and videoplayers.

      for how much i understand the matter it was about false competition and selling (bundeling for free) products under the marketproce to gain a 'illegal' market advantage.
  • It's pretty sad that I get excited to see Microsoft in trouble with the law again. It's sad that we have to rely on another country to punish the corperations in our borders that buy our government.

    This'll be worse then a slap on the wrist. It'll be like a distant aunt telling you not do something at a family picnic.

    Whatever

  • I smell an audit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by N8F8 ( 4562 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @12:16PM (#8159244)
    I smell a MS software audit for all EU governments.

  • At the Gates home ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rlp ( 11898 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @12:20PM (#8159292)
    Flunkie: Mr Gates the EU is fining us 100 million Euros ...
    Gates: ... no response ...
    Flunkie: Mr. Gates, did you hear me; 100 million!
    Gates: Yeah, yeah, hold on a sec ...
    Flunkie: Ummm, Mr. Gates ...
    Gates: Hang on, I've got one more sofa cushion to go ... OK, there you go ... 100 million!

  • Other reports state 3.22 *billion* dollars (Score:5, Informative)

    by slumped ( 684262 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @12:27PM (#8159355)
    In The Scotsman [scotsman.com]:
    MICROSOFT is working around the clock to find a way of avoiding a fine of up to $3.22bn that the European Commission is about to levy.
    Anonymous sources, though....
  • fine of EUR 100,000,000 (USD 123,840,000) on Microsoft

    That's sneaky! When the fine will be finalized in EUR it will increase the exchange rate, so one EUR will be about $2USD. Therefor it will be about $200 MegaBucks! Go EU! :)

  • "Today, we don't feel like to admit it yet, so we'll call it 'speculation'

  • Sounds like the fine amount is based on Dr. Evil's blackmail algorithm.

    Mario Monti: "...one hundred MILLION dollars...muhahahaha..."

    Bill Gates: [yawn]

  • The Fine is Irrelevant (Score:3, Insightful)

    by johnos ( 109351 ) on Monday February 02, 2004 @01:38PM (#8159982)
    $100m or $1b, it doesn't matter to the EU or Microsoft. The real penalty will be the order to unbundle Media Player and open some server APIs. When all this started, Media Player was a fairly insignificant OS add-on. That's changed. Media Player is now the key part of an MS DRM standard. Without the ability to force media through a universal MS controlled front-end, the whole excercise becomes difficult. Maybe impossible.

    Microsoft's strategy was to woo content providers with a de-facto universal DRM scheme based on Windows. By signing up enough providers, MS would be able to end-run hardware makers and force them to adopt MS DRM in turn. This would nicely place MS (and Windows) in the middle of the food-chain. Without near-universal control of the media front-end, MS can't offer seamless protection to the content providers. Even with MS's abysmal security record, a blanket MS controlled regieme is preferable to the record companies et.al. than the current anarchy. Without the content providers on board, MS can't tell the hardware makers "our way or the highway". That means they have to compete with Sony and friends rather than outmaneuver them. And the hardware makers will always support open standards (free as in beer) whenever possible. That's because they've been paying gobs of money for technology licences to Sony and Matsushita for the last 25 years and they're sick of it.

    If Monti orders an unbundle, it will almost certainly stand on appeal. And that just about wrecks the current MS DRM effort. Don't worry, though. They'll come up with another, but it will take a few years.
  • I hope that the EU really do something about M$, and they well may do, as, theoretically, they have a lot of power. However the EU is also not well known for actually getting things done and they also love M$ software -- just look at their site were many of their documents are exclusively in M$ Word or Powerpoint (despite it being illegal to read these formats).

    I've been trying to find info on the case on the EU w3site which is terribly disorganised -- worst site(s) I've ever seen. When I search for M$ o

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