CD-Rs and MP3s Not Hurting Record Sales 303
David Gerard writes "Forget the industry shills' spin - the numbers prove that, for Australia, CD-Rs and MP3s are not hurting record sales in the slightest - based on a recent Australian Record Industry Association survey. It would be interesting to see what the numbers for the US or UK say."
mp3s helped my sales! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:mp3s helped my sales! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:mp3s helped my sales! (Score:2, Troll)
But did you post a full CD worth of music, or just a few select tracks?
Do you think you should be able to make that decision?
Assuming that you only put up a limited selection, is it ok if people go ahead and share the rest of your music anyway?
Do you only welcome sharing work that you first decided to share, or do you also welcome sharing of all of your work, regarless of whether you decided to share?
Au contraire mon frere! (Score:3, Insightful)
Lots of people will pay for something that they know they like even if they know they can get it for free. In fact, public radio in the United States is pretty much supported by people who know that they can get it for free but choose to pay anyway. Just because you have a somewhat dim view of human nature doesn't make it so. People can be quite generous towards someone who is doing something they consider worthwhile.
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:2)
Hogwash, and don't bother with the "dim view of human nature" routine. People don't pay for stuff if given the choice not to. Sure, some do, but vast vast majority don't.
You're g
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not so sure about that
Ok, that's with "real" stuff, you actually get something more than a bunch of bytes
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:2)
In any case, yes *some* people do give when they don't have to, but most won't. If you're advising this guy to base his living on people optionally deciding to pay work that he has already given them, you're not giving wise advice...
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:2, Interesting)
If I downloaded his music and liked it then I would buy the cd. In the same way I buy DVDs even though I have already checked out the movie by downloading it. Also just like I donate money to sites even though it isn't compulsory, if I think a site like a web comic is really good then I donate money to support it.
I think you will find people are much more willing to give money to the artists than to a faceless corporation. Or in the case of DVDs willing to pay for quality and added content.
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, but then you've got the goose that laid the golden egg issue, too.
If you hear an independent band's music, and like it, and can download it for free... you want more of it. And chances are, they haven't *recorded* more of it yet. You won't get it unless they have the funds to record it. What's the simplest way to ensure they have the money to continue their endeavors? Buy the CD. And the T-shirt, the baseball caps, and the bumper stickers.
Furthermore, if you download music, you *don't* have the whole product. Not even if you legally download every second of recorded sound that's on their CD. Because the liner notes, the cover, the case... it's all part of it. Want to know what the band members look like? Want to know what the heck that guy is saying? Wondering how they got that funky name? Often you'll find it out from the liner notes. Bands who want to sell CDs should make these as interesting as possible.
What people have empirically observed is that their CD sales (or book sales) increase when they make the material available for free download. This is usually the case for folks without a big reputation, or a concert tour, or money for advertising. Maybe it's not the case for big-name artists, but if it's not, that's probably because they've reached market saturation. It might hurt sales, true... but probably only if it turned out the album sucked.
Re:Au contraire mon frere! (Score:3, Insightful)
I honestly have to say that might have been the case 10 years ago, but in the age of the Internet everything you mentioned is availabe in seconds, including albums covers if indeed you nee
Re:mp3s helped my sales! (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me guess, you're a young American. Here's a clue. People do things not just for reasons of money. Bonus clue: Some people understand the power of money and spend it for reasons other than direct personal gain.
Also, some people aren't so short sighted as to believe that an immedia
Re:Socializing music (Was: mp3s helped my sales!) (Score:3, Insightful)
Why rely on patronizing comments to substitute for meaningful argument? You may actually go out and buy each CD that burn (come on, honest now, do you?) but are you actually saying that your position is that most people also purchase CDs that they burned? Insult me for calling that Utopian, but I don't drink your Kool-aid.
"Personally, I believe a musician has the best chance of making a living by producing lots of good stuff people want."
Perhaps that'
old news, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
So to the RIAA - the WHOLE WORLD is proving you wrong!
preaching to the choir (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:2, Interesting)
The bottom line was that everyone made more money, consumers got more choice, and sampling (and buying) of CDs got distributed over a wider cast of artists. The only exposure was with the top few artists at each of the top 5 record labels, which she thought would be very influential on the way
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:5, Insightful)
The bottom line was that everyone made more money, consumers got more choice, and sampling (and buying) of CDs got distributed over a wider cast of artists. The only exposure was with the top few artists at each of the top 5 record labels, which she thought would be very influential on the way the industry would behave. Unfortunately, a significant share of most record labels profits come from very few artists.
Record company thinking is a dinosaur. I have labeled the very last sentence in your post as the "rock-star mentality", and it is identical to the "home-run mentality". :)
Basically, the record-company is stuck in the rut of trying to make rock-stars out of musicians, and pushing every musician they can to stardom. Statistically, this model fails because only a very select few, determined by market forces, will become a "hit". The industry can impact that, to some extent, and they do try, but in the end it's market forces that dominate the next big thing. It always is. I suggest that dropping CD sales is mostly due to the record industry trying to make the next big hit, rather than trying to find out what it is.
I think the record industry needs to drop the rock-star mentality and go for the muffler man mentality. This requires more description:
Back when I did exhaust work, I worked with a guy who didn't want any of the "small" jobs. The setup was this: When a job sold, the ticket would get hung on the wall in shop. We (the mechanics) would take them each in line. When you finished a job, you grab the next ticket in line and start working on it, no matter what it is. We made commission, no hourly or salary pay, so we got paid (theoretically) for what we were worth.
So, this guy decides that small jobs are a waste of time and he only wants to work the big jobs. He did a few brake jobs that day, and one of the higher-priced exhaust jobs. He cherry-picked. ;) He hovered close to the tickets and would slow down his work until the next ticket was a high-dollar ticket. Then he would crank it up, finish his job, and grab it before someone else got to it.
That left all the small jobs for me and the other guy. So I busted my ass and did as many of them as I could.
At the end of the day, I had done $1,400 worth of work (earning 14% of that), while the cherry-picker had only done about $900.
His was the "rock-star mentality", and mine was the "muffler man mentality". It compares nicely with grocery stores who only get 3% profit on gross sales, and take a loss on many of the individual products in the store! Yet they rake in millions each year!
The recording industry needs to take a lesson from all of this and focus more on getting all of their music to sell rather than pushing the Next Big Thing. People have diverse interests, and any investor will tell you to diversify your holdings. Why does the record industry insist on focusing on less than 10% of their total catalog? Because it makes money? I'll bet that they'd make a LOT more money if they focused on getting their whole catalog to sell and worried more about gross sales than they worry about individual musicians. And that's where P2P file sharing becomes an asset in their marketing strategy, rather than the liability it poses now.
Make no mistake: P2P does represent a liability to the record industry. Ultimately it might well result in their downfall. Not through immoral piracy, but simply because customers don't give a shit about the industry, they care about the musicians that make the music, and they will support those musicians. Historically, all of the big rock bands to come out that have shown staying power started by building their own following. Aerosmith wasn't an overnight sensation, neither was Metallica. Both of them worked their asses off for years, making shit for pay, until they finally had enough of a following to be viable bands to the record industry. For all those years, they were classed in the 90%+ of
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:2)
wow, that was brilliant. I love reading postings like that on
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:4, Interesting)
Ya, but what about the days you worked your ass off and made less than him?
I *never* worked my ass off and made less than him. At least, in the muffler business, laziness gets quickly beat out by the market itself. People want their cars fixed *now* and don't have time to wait. If you want to slog your way through the job, work less and get paid more, it's just not going to happen.
I've put out what I consider a half-assed effort and still made more than him. :) The only time I made less than him was on the slow days when it was just the luck of the draw. On any busy day, I beat him hands down, and usually topped the shop. In a different shop, in the same company, I didn't top the shop every time it was busy because there was real competition with the other mechanics. In that place, I found that I made more money being a team player than fighting over work. If I helped a guy out on a job, he wouldn't have a problem helping me out when I needed it. More, he would even be willing to give up a job or two on a slow day to give me beer money or whatever, because he knows he can depend on my help.
Cutthroat competition can be fun, but isn't usually the best way to get the job done. :)
The formula never changes: volume is where the money is. It's volume that makes manufacturing work in the first place! Without volume, there'd be no need!
Now, I certainly sympathize with your statement about the printing industry, and it is a different ballgame than mechanic work. But in the end, it's still volume that pays the bills, pays the workers, puts food on the table, and so forth. Sure, when it's busy you might be inclined to pass up the small print run. Then, when it's slow, you can be certain the small print run won't come back to you when you need it. They'll remember how they were snubbed when you were busy. Passing up work for short-term gain always screws you in the long run, and the simple fact is, you can't pass up any work. Every piece of work you accept will affect you when it gets slow. In fact, by definition, the more work you take, the less slow you are. :)
So, yeah, I can see the real business problem of passing up the small job for the big job. But it will bite you on the ass. Winter doesn't have to be biting. It's always slow in the winter. Hell, plenty of times I had work in the winter because I didn't pass up the work in the summer. That same guy didn't have any work when it got slow, and there were quite a few times when people showed up and asked for me to work on their car because I didn't pass them up for more money.
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:2)
Re:preaching to the choir (Score:3, Interesting)
Whenever any medium goes through a digital transformation, it opens giant income generation possibilities after the massive development
Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:3, Informative)
But that's from lower prices, not from lower sales...
Re:Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know what planet you're on, but I'm struggling to find these mythical "lower prices" I hear rumored.
Yesterday I saw
- at a retail music store
- an actual current release album
- with one CD (ie not a 2 or 3 CD set)
- for (australian) $39 and change (for the USians out there, that translates to ~$30 US at current exchange rates)
To my amazement I found that:- it was not diamond encrusted
- it was not made of solid gold
- it did not include oral sex from the cute chick at the counter
I for one am struggling to find the value-for-money in this proposed transaction, so The Music Industry should not in any way be surprised to see "lower than expected sales" when they pitch suck LOONEY prices.Keep in mind, people....
Re:Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:2)
badump bump! (Good one, though probably unintended.)
Re:Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:3, Informative)
read it again. it says they wouldn't "buy a copy of" [meaning, buy a legitimate disc] for something of whi
Re:Uhhh ARIA said different. (Score:2)
More than 50 % of file sharers tend not to buy music they have downloaded (ie. 'rarely' or 'never' buy)."
Coincidentally, that matches the RIAA's claim that most of their music doesn't sell. Yes, ARIA and RIAA are two different organizations in two different countries, but let's look deeper at this. :)
If the RIAA claims that 90%+ of their catalog will never sell in enough quantities to make an impact on their bottom line, than it also stands to reason that some huge percentage of music available for down
Re:Of course somebody is lying... (Score:2)
(Misspelling of 'reaping' as 'raping' intentional.)
And stupid, as well. You can't rape an inanimate object. So the phrase "raping money" doesn't make any sense, since "money" is the object that is being raped.
I know what your intentions were, but you need to get your direct objects in line. :)
Before or after??? (Score:5, Funny)
Before or after the numbers were manipulated by the RIAA?
How many? (Score:2)
Woah...so everyone who gets any gets about four?...or am I reading this wrong? That's a LOT of mix-discs floating around...a lot more than I would've guessed or I would estimate for the U.S. as well...
Interesting (Score:5, Informative)
But this article at ABCNews [go.com] seems to indicate that its not piracy thats really affecting the sales, but services like iTunes -
"CD sales are down 15 percent from last year, while legal online services like the new Napster and Apple's iTunes have taken off, especially for the holidays. Apple's iTunes sold more than $1 million in download gift certificates since October."
I think that more than CD-Rs or mp3 piracy, its services like these which would affect the records sales.
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm curious to know what is actually selling on iTunes, etc. Is it new stuff? Or classic, older stuff from the labels' catablogs?
I don't by any CDs now because most new music sucks, and I've already got my preferred CDs in my library. I may be a White Stripes or a Jet disc. But, of all the material being released in the past few year, almost none of it appeals to me.
I have to wonder if all the iTunes sales are for Zeppelin, Stones, Floyd, etc. (or artists from your genre of choice).
Eventually, iTunes users will have filled their iPods with the older music they've heard and know they already like.
When that point arrives, the industry will have to convince customers that Britney is more deserving of space on the iPod, and more deserving of one's listening time, than Jimmy Hendricks and Janis Joplin.
Good luck with that.
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
Britney is more deserving of space on the iPod, and more deserving of one's listening time, than Jimmy Hendricks and Janis Joplin.
No problems here, all three of them are "artists" i'd rather not subject myself to. :) I'm not interested in where Joe is going with that gun of his, and if I hear about Bobby McGee one more time I'm gonna do something psycho, I swear I will! I'll hurt somebody....
Re:Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
I personally love using iTunes to discover older music. Sometime I would stumble upon a tune that is familiar and try to find it on iTunes. And if I like it, I'd just buy it. For example, I just bought Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" just because I overheard it being played somewhere and thought it was interesting.
In fact, I rarely get the new stuff from iTunes, but I don't think that is the common modus operandi fr
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Informative)
Top 10 Songs for Today:
OutKast - Hey Ya!
No Douby - It's My Life
Kelis - Milkshake
Fountains of Wayne - Stacy's Mom
OutKast & Sleepy Brown - The Way You Move
Dido - White Flag (up to this point, this is the first artist on the list that I've heard of)
Coldplay - Clocks (it's been on this list for ages now)
Beyonce - Crazy in Love
Black Eyed Peas & Justin Timberlake - Where I
Wonderful news, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
As has already been said, 'nuff said, heard it all already. Knew it.
But how does this news get to the lawmakers, to the people whose ears are already stuffed with campaign donations by some other "interested" party?
Re:Wonderful news, but... (Score:2)
Unfortunately, I do not think thats really happening. At my school, so many people have almost stopped using p2p networks for music downloads out of sheer fear - they'd rather pay more than risk getting sued by RIAA.
The only other way that this would happen is through what Apple and others are doing - although not the best of solutions, its better than what RIAA
Has any article metioned this (Score:5, Interesting)
XML has nothing to do with this post (Score:2)
Re:XML has nothing to do with this post (Score:2)
Whos to say they wouldn't have gone up more if CD-R's and Mp3's wernt avaliable?
I'll say it. :)
Sales wouldn't have gone up more if CD-Rs and mp3's were't available.
It's called "word of mouth" advertising, and has always been the way the bands with the most staying power became successful. Metallica, the Who, Aerosmith, Pink Floyd, the list goes on and on full of bands that worked hard, became successful mostly through word of mouth, and then maintained top sales and top billing throughout the rest of t
Exactly! (Score:5, Insightful)
Dolemite
_____________________
Re:Exactly! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Exactly! (Score:2)
Re:Exactly! (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be nice to see a sales study done by some music store chains rather than by the RIAA, who do not really encompass the entirety of CD sales that are going on out there.
aussie aussie aussie (Score:4, Interesting)
RIAA Bashing (Score:5, Funny)
God dammit, RIAA. I can't even think of ways to defend you. Stop lying to us, you bastards! Stop with the "you are destroying your favorite artists" Jewish-mom guilt trips! Even if it were true (which it is not), and our "favorite artists" (by whom they apparently mean Brittney Spears and her ilk) will be unable to buy yet another $2 million sports car, then I think I will still be able to soundly fall asleep at night.
*Sigh* As an act of protest, I'm going to go out and send an angry e-mail to RIAA, coloring it a vehement red. I am sure they will read it carefully and alter their corporate policies, thus ceasing to be a terrible cesspool of biomatter waste. *rolls eyes*
Re:RIAA Bashing (Score:2)
Re:RIAA Bashing (Score:2)
It's a first-world country, so I thought it would be comparable on that level.
What level? Countries allied with the US?
Re:RIAA Bashing (Score:2)
The RIAA is not interested in supporting Artists but in only supporting their greed for profits.
The RIAA and the credibility of their arguments is solely defined by what they are. They are the "Recording Industry Association of America". By definition, they don't give a shit about musicians, they care about the "Recording Industry", and musicians are only a small part of that industry.
Viewing the RIAA as spokesmen for musicians is a disservice to the musicians themselves, and the fact that the RIAA tri
The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:2)
Your analogy fails because Ketchup is given out for free. :) You can just walk up to sonic (or mcdonald's, or whatever) and ask for ketchup packets and they'll give it to you.
They'll give it to you knowing that when you next think of buying a hamburger or whatever, you'll think of them, they guys that gave you ketchup whenever you needed it the most!
Now, test your analogy by going to a music store and asking them for ketchup packets--er, I mean, ask them for a single, and see if they give it to you.
Obvi
Re:The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:2)
OK, I may have picked a bad example, I forgot about fast food places which provide ketchup for free. I was thinking more along the lines of going to a Safeway or Sainsbury's or something, and getting some ketchup from there without paying...
I suppose I could be wrong, but I somehow doubt fast food places give away ketchup in the hopes you'll come back and buy food (or cardboard, in your McDonald's example), but rather that you'll use it on food you've just bought.
(Of course, looking at your UN ma
Re:The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:2)
I suppose I could be wrong, but I somehow doubt fast food places give away ketchup in the hopes you'll come back and buy food (or cardboard, in your McDonald's example), but rather that you'll use it on food you've just bought.
Well, I worked in fast food for four and a half years, and I can say with utmost confidence, that fast food places do give away shit like ketchup in the hopes that you'll come back for more food. It's generally referred to as "Customer Service". It's the reason you can go to a fas
Re:The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:2)
I certainly do not believe that the artists are recieving the short end of the stick either. When was the last time you saw them "struggling."
And how many "artists" do you know? You are aware that 99.999999% of musicians make their money by having full-time day jobs, aren't you? You are also aware that 99.999999% of recorded musicians live below the poverty line, traveling from city to city, playing for small audiences, and hoping that someday someone will decide their worth a shit, aren't you?
Not to p
Re:The only one stealing is the record labels... (Score:2)
Idiot, the quote from my post that you used shows where those particular artists get their money: their full-time jobs. :)
What can we use this "proof" for? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What can we use this "proof" for? (Score:5, Interesting)
It is important to show this, because at the moment some extremely draconian laws are being implemented, huge jail terms for downloading music. Their given justification is that downloading music hurts the industry so much, that something like that is necessary.
But of course, you believe that just because something is morally wrong, that immediately justifies absolutely any punishment that a law could give for it.
Re:What can we use this "proof" for? (Score:2)
a minor but important point- if you just take, and don't give-- you are home free...
Re:What can we use this "proof" for? (Score:5, Insightful)
All the time.
Every Day.
And if that isn't bad enough for you, they want to stop legitimate use.
Specifically, you might want to rip and encode that Music CD you purchased in order to listen to it on your MP3 player (a reasonable expectation) - but the RIAA will do *anything* to stop you from doing that.
WHY do they want to do that? because
- people ONLY rip and encode to MP3 in order to pirate music
- music piracy decreases sales
- decreasing sales hurts artists
- hurting artists will produce less music
Of course, it's been shown in many/most cases that only #4 is trueRe:What can we use this "proof" for? (Score:2)
Ok, so now the artist claims (I know it's not the artist - it's the RIAA - but that's a different argum
Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
but wholesale copying of music, which is what is going on via kazaa etc, is just plain immorally wrong
Nope, it may be illegal but it's not immoral. IP law is totally broken at the moment and civil disobedience is entirely appropriate.
---
It's wrong that an intellectual property creator should not be rewarded for their work.
It's equally wrong that an IP creator should be rewarded too many times for the one piece of work, for exactly the same reasons.
Reform IP law and stop the M$/RIAA abuse.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, it may be illegal but it's not immoral. IP law is totally broken at the moment and civil disobedience is entirely appropriate.
Civil disobedience in these cases is where you publically declare that you are going to break the law, state your reasons why, and publically do it. Civil disobedience stives to raise the public view of the act you are campaigning against, and it does it by demonstrating why it is wrong, and why you are against it, and giving the chance for the act to be taken to court, so it can be demonstrated there as well. People downloading off kazaa, copying off friends etc etc are not doing this, they are hiding in the shadows and not performing any civil disobedience at all, and until someone does im sorry but this arguement does not stand for me.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
civil disobedience
n.
(from dictionary.com)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
In this case, there are two possible reasons for ignoring copyright law:
1) you think that the current system is broken in some way, and needs to be changed
2) you just want stuff and don't want to have to pay for it
Unless you publicly stand up and announce that you are doing what you do because of 1), most people (who either don't realise or don't b
Re:Does it matter? (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't forget that copyright is a means to an end. If its not achieving that end and it's only effect is to prevent the spread of information then it's doing more harm than good. (I use the term information loosely)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
We read this here all the time in regards to the GPL. The GPL must be respected.
Yet it seems to many that it's okay to ignore the copyright that "Metallica" or whoever releases there music under.
You don't like the copyright it's released under that's your choice - DON'T listen to it.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Copyright is copyright, there isn't any "different copyrights available to people to release shit under." Sorry, by copyright is copyright.
You have only the rights provided by copyright law with regard to any copyrighted work, unless the creator of that work provides you with a license to use the work in a fashion that would normally not be allowed by traditional copyright law. That license amounts to "You have more rights, provided you follow our agreement, and we won't sue you."
GPL uses copyright law
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
IF there were no IP laws, then there would be little incentive for anyone to produce anything that was easily copyable. Music would go back to band performances live, because thats the only way bands would get money. Software would stop being
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
----- Don't flame me, I'm posing a moral question here -----
There are countries where The Music Industry has pressured The Government to apply a FEE to all and sundry users of a Particular Recording Medium (eg the CDRs in Canada).
The Music Industry argues "*ALL* users of this recording medium are PIRATES, therefore they ALL should pay ME money".
Ok, so if I've done the time, then looking at this from a purely moral standpoint, why should I not do the crime?
I've *already* "paid for" the criminal act of pirating music, so why should I not go out and perform the criminal act itself?
----- It only stands to reason.
On the other hand,if they want to treat me with the assumption that I'm basically a good law abiding citizen, that I want to rip my music to MP3 for my own private listening, and that I use CDRs for storing backups of my own personal original digital photography, then why do they need to impose a *blanket* CDR fee *as well as* doing their best to technologically prevent me from riping CDs on my computer.
---------------
You ask "does it matter?" I say yes it does because the Music Industry Associations are arguing from a "morally right" standpoint (eg infringing on copyright hurts the artists), even though they're very clearly morally wrong (ie by assuming that *all* CDR sales are for piracy , and that *anyone* who rips music to MP3 is always/only doing so for the purposes of piracy).
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Read this [baen.com]
With copyright terms now stretching to 140+ years, and recent judgements that make it possible for corporations to maintain copyright indefinitely, that makes the laws unjust.
Now, I will exercise my fair use rights by quoting from a passage recorded, and I'll not tell you who recorded this speech, nor what song it introduces:
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Yup.
"... but wholesale copying of music
Nope, that doesn't follow. Maybe if you'd said "wholesale _infringement_". I also think you meant "morally wrong", but we get the idea.
Copying music is moral and right in many circumstances. Even in many situations where certain interests say it isn't.
- it's moral and right if the music is public domain. If someone wanted to go after the music industry for abuse of copyright _priveleges_, that mig
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
It is immoral to not compensate the people responsible when you enjoy something. Copying music, getting copied music
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Also ever thought of this one? It may not be damaging CD sales, but what incentive does kazaa give the ARIA etc to provide a download service? Itunes was successful, but who knows how much revenue it is loosing to kazaa et al?
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
That's an interesting point. It also raises yet another issue regarding p2p music: Do you believe that you should be able to download (without paying) a song that is on a vinyl album that you own? In other words, how many times do you feel you should have to pay for a copyrighte
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Also ever thought of this one? It may not be damaging CD sales, but what incentive does kazaa give the ARIA etc to provide a download service? Itunes was successful, but who knows how much revenue it is loosing to kazaa et al?
Interesting. YOu make a strong point that existing P2P fills a niche that prevents the ARIA and RIAA labels to move into, forcing them to be dinosaurs and unable to adapt. Not that I'm trying to read more into what you said, it's just that that's what hit me when I read it. :)
I've
P2P = Album sampling (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:P2P = Album sampling (Score:2)
If I see a CD that I like, and it has copy protection, ok, back on the shelf, lets see what else is around.
BTW, something I thought I would mention, with the exception of older albums, and some of the Australian groups, most CDs here in Aus are actually about $30 as opposed to the $20 that people in the US are used to paying.
Australians pay directly for every byte downloaded (Score:5, Informative)
For our monthly ISP fee we are granted a certain number of megabytes that we may download without incurring extra cost. This "bandwidth cap" varies depending on how much you pay per month. Beyond that we typically pay some rate such as 15c per megabyte, or are cut back to dialup speeds.
Now, this doesn't directly affect the discrepancy discussed in the article (between the rate of people burning CDs for their friends and the lack of a corresponding drop in CD sales), but in general you have to keep this in mind when trying to draw conclusions from any investigation of illegal music sharing in Australia.
Of course, it might just be that illegal music sharing has no effect on sales elsewhere in the world, but it's important to realize that our usage patterns will be very different from areas that have unlimited downloads.
Re:WiFi it in Aussie land (Score:3, Insightful)
This is where your choice of ISP becomes very important. Many ISPs offer free download servers and game servers that don't incur any cost. I don't happen to play PC games at the moment, however my ISP has an array of game servers for different popular games. It also mirrors various Linux distros, FreeBSD, Mozilla, Python, Perl and other popular open source projects - which is what *I'm* interes
Re:Australians pay directly for every byte downloa (Score:2)
What is being called "unlimited" by various ISPs is not in fact unlimited. Data shaping, i.e. dropping back to dialup speed when a cap is reached, is not "unlimited" by any reasonable definition.
I would suggest you're getting ripped off on your current ISP plan
No, I don't believe that I am. No one provides true unlimited broadband to my knowledge. If you want to link to a specific plan that you think does, feel free to go
Why do we care about CD's (Score:3, Interesting)
The Real Story is the Music Industry completely dropping the ball on the delivery of digital music formats. When Napster raised its head and "threatened" CD Sales, the industry should have studied and copied it.
Instead they tried to shut it down and failed miserably. The current tactics are just the tail-end of a poorly implemented policy that has simply highlighted the availability of online peer-to-peer media to people that normally would not engage in these activities.
There are online music sellers now but if the Music Industry had acted earlier when peer-to-peer had first come into prominence, we would not be talking about CD's at all. Compact Discs would be the same as Cassette Tapes and Vinyl Records. They would only be sold to those who had not adopted the new digital technology or those who like to hang onto older formats (like reel-to-reel machines).
By now instant access to entire music catalogues could have been made available online (not just the latest hits) and the price would have dropped to a reasonable amount, due to true competition in the marketplace. Independent artists would be setting up their own operations based on similar business models. It would have been similar to independent record pressing, where it would be servers holding and distributing the collections rather than an industrial process.
Any mention of CD sales at this time is just another reminder of how much they messed it all up.
You could turn it around... (Score:2)
Crying Wolf ? When will thy bluff be called .. (Score:4, Insightful)
Crying Wolf for years ? Crying wolf implies that someday your bluff will be called. Remember the Story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf ? [storyarts.org]
If the bluff ain't ever going to be called then is it really crying wolf ?
Is the RIAA and MPAA bluff ever going to be called ? Has it ever been called out even after the above listed examples ?
Big Money speaks. And Big Money carries a big stick. In today's world don't underestimate the belief that brawn overcomes brains. Hopefully, though, someday the brains will inherit the earth.
Basic wrong assumption. (Score:3, Interesting)
The music, software and all such industry assumes, that piracy - scenario:
Customer with product - Producer without money
replaces classic "sale" scenario:
Customer with product - Producer with money
In fact, it usually replaces a different scenario:
Customer without product - Producer without money
The industry loses nothing at all. If they want $30 for a CD album, I won't buy that album. Simple as that. And doesn't matter if I downloaded it or not, they wouldn't see my money ever. At best, I will be pissed off at their ridiculous price and refuse to buy it later when it's cheaper, simply because I don't support thieves (yep, I mean what I just said!)
But when I download the album, another situation appears. They may gain one, rather esotheric thing from me: Gratitude. Maybe I'll buy some crappy product of theirs, just to support them in the future, just to express my thanks. Maybe I will buy "colector's edition" of what I copied earlier. Just because I like it so much.
Under one condition: They can't piss me off before that. If I hear about stupid lawsuits, sites closed due to ridiculous copyright issues, evil marketing techniques - then, sorry. I'll gladly make a copy for my friends: "Hey, don't support that assholes with your money, get a copy instead!"
Re:I don't support thieves (Score:2)
Most of the time I disagree with you. However, I have bought a few albums based on one song I have heard. The rest of the album was junk. In these cases, I agree with you. I buy less music nowdays. It's too much like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get. I wouldn't be disappointed if they were all sweet,
It's impossible to make conclusions now (Score:2)
First, CD sales are much more dependent on economic circumstances than they used to be. Prior to 1998 or so, CDs were the only way to get music, and like drug addicts, we stood in line and paid the price. The fact that the music industry was robbing us blind made us de
AU sales already tiny and bandwidth pricey (Score:2, Informative)
1: Australia pays an INSANE duty on imported music, to the point that when I lived there a few years ago, CD's from the US and UK cost TWICE as much as local fare. As such, it was ALREADY a culture in which people swapped tapes or (more likely) purchased all their music on overseas trips, particularly to asia, where it was ALL boot.
2: Bandwidth is by the byte.
Put these two together, and the stats don't add up.
Hey, I hate the RIAA as much as everyone else, but it baffles
Actually quite the reverse... (Score:3, Interesting)
I downloaded the Dixie Chicks off Kazaa. Never heard them before but decided to give them a try after hearing about the absurd US boycott of their music.
Loved it so much I bought all their CDs and went to see them live on their Top of The World Tour.
Without MP3 sharing they wouldn't have got a penny of my money and I'd have missed out on a great band. (I dislike country as a rule so wouldn't have bought a country cd on the off-chance I might like it).
No surprise . . . (Score:2)
Sure, cause and effect cannot be implied, but it makes you think.
OT: We now have AUDIO CD-R's (Score:3, Insightful)
The only difference was the price.
DATA CD-R worked out about $0.80 per CD-R
AUDIO CD-R worked out about $1.30 per CD-R
I wonder how many people will get the audio cd-r's thinking that somehow the data cd-r's will not play audio?
Re:OT: We now have AUDIO CD-R's (Score:2)
Personally, I use cdrecord and have a relatively new (1 year old) LG burner that I use all the time and I haven't had a single problem with ANY cd player playing my cd-r's. So who knows?
As for the UK (Score:3, Informative)
On several occasions, the BPI (UK's RIAA) have politely told the RIAA to piss off when they've tried to convince them to start suing customers. Not only are the BPI just generally much nicer people, but they also realise the futility of suing their customers while their sales are at record highs.
The BPI also believes that offering singles for download will help revive the crippled singles chart [bbc.co.uk].
For the moment, at least, we're much better off than the US is.
Forums for pirating? (Score:2)
Here is a recent register story, covering UK sales (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I use P2P instead of MTV to inform myself (Score:2, Funny)
It looks like you misspelled 'Slashdot'.
Re:Yes...and...? (Score:2)
Would anybody else like a feature in Slashdot which filters out RIAA articles, MS-paranoia articles, SCO's latest bullshit articles, etc?
Re:Missleading headline to this post. (Score:2)
I'm not certain those type of sales declines can be successfully spun into downloading and burning not hurting sales of recorded music.
The mistake you make is by trying to spin the sales figures to find a scapegoat. The recording industries would be better off introverting for awhile to find the reason sales are down. They would emerge newer, better, and proving much more value for what they ask.
Archeology is the search for fact! The Record Industries everywhere need to search for fact, not truth!
Re:What percentage of music fans buy NEW CDs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Could the downward price pressure of all the accumulated used CDs hitting the market (and people like me buying them) be responsible for the recent sales declines and price reductions as much as P2P?
Could it also be the result of everyone having finally upgraded themselves to CD? How much of their sales in the 90s was the result of people upgrading their existing music collection? I know I upgraded mine...
Now I"ve upgraded mine to a format the RIAA doesn't want to support! I store it on my hard drive.
Re:That picture... (Score:2)
Thank you, I was wondering what that picture was! Until now, I had honestly thought the only musicians ever to come out of Australia were AC/DC, Midnight Oil, and INXS.