OS-Independent Web Banking? 218
"I recently wrote again, and received no response at all, even though I mentioned that I would be writing an editorial for Slashdot, whether I could report a happy ending or not. That happy ending seems to be out of reach now. I even offered to contract to fix the problem myself.
The big question is, is there any bank with a good Web banking component that geeks can rely upon for good cross-platform support? TD's site is not only incompatible, but it relies on all sorts of client-side JavaScript to do things that could 99% of the time be just as easily done on the server side in PHP, CGI, ASP (which they are using now - another questionable decision), etc. Ideally I want to be able to log in from a text console using lynx and do my banking... and it seems to me with a little planning there's no reason I shouldn't be able to do so.
Another, broader question that comes to mind is this: Who makes the technology decisions at the big banks? These companies influence our daily lives to an astonishing degree, since they control our financial lives. When my bank decides to change their Web site to make it incompatible with my platform of choice, it really leaves me floundering. Who is responsible? What consulting firm is recommending these unfriendly, unnecessarily glitzy, and altogether unsound choices? If they're unaware of the needs of their less-than-mainstream customers - betraying a certain lack of thoroughness - can we really trust their security decisions?
Practically speaking, I'd like advice on a new, geek-friendly bank, if indeed such a thing exists. Preferably somewhere I can do my banking in a text-mode browser, but at least somewhere committed to supporting the most common graphical browsers on *all* platforms. For myself, the other requirement is that the bank be Canadian, though I think discussion of banks in other countries would be very interesting as well. The good thing about TD is that they have a no-fee minimum account level, which is convenient; a geek-friendly bank with a good service plan to boot would be ideal.
To be fair to my bank, I've been reasonably happy up until now. However, my inability to get any satisfaction on this matter has forced me to consider a move, if a better alternative exists."
Why? (Score:1)
If you don't want to use an operating system that the bank's -- or ecommerce etc -- system supports, that is your perogative. However, you can't expect them all to support every operating system there is. That simply isn't possible.
If they lose your business, that's one person. If they try to make their system work with everything, that's more money that one person is worth. Are there more people? Certainly, but they keep a second computer/partition with a 'common' operating system.
Companies have finite resources, and they must choose what is the best value--supporting Windows especially, and also the Mac, is how they can make the most money. They owe this to their customers.
Security First Network Bank (Score:1)
I've been using www.sfnb.com [sfnb.com] for a year or so with netscape (various versions) on Linux with nary a problem. I was nervous at first, not being able to walk into a branch, but the service has been flawless for me, unlike my local bank, Bank of America, who lost a deposit and took 2 months to credit it back even though i was waving a receipt in their faces. Check 'em out.
Recommend Canada Trust - they're the opposite (Score:1)
The difference is incredible. Canada Trust is truly customer service oriented, and were the first to adopt a touch-screen teller service (that I know of in Canada) with friendly people behind the counter you can just talk to - no more paper slips, just walk right up.
CT never got into the dial-up Windows-only remote banking (like TD did), they were prepared and ready with web-based banking right from the outset. The website doesn't use javascript or anything special, just straight HTML 2 or 3 with cgi-based forms, and appears very cross platform (you could use w3m or links, I'd assume).
I had a problem once with the version of browser I used, emailed CT, and a representative emailed me back within hours and was contacting the technical people to help get it resolved quickly. She was very helpful, responsive, and friendly.
TD Bank's web banking worries me. I tried it the other day, and found I get this cryptic ID and password to start. It seems they can't relate my Bank card number with Me. So if I want to do banking remotely where my ID isn't saved in the browser, I've got to carry this cryptic ID around with me (it's impossible to change).
When I log in to TD, I see I'm directed to server # 40 something, and it's based on ASP. This also frightens me, if the bank is running an enourmous NT cluster. I won't trust that bank with my paychecks if it stays that way.
Now that TD and CT are merging in the next year, supposedly the customer service aspect is surposed to be preserved for the new bank. The web-based technology is also surposed to merge, and the best aspects you would hope will stay.
I sincerely hope they keep CT's web-based system, and drop the crap that TD has come up with. It does everything I need, it's been reliable, and allows me to do banking anywhere. If they don't, I'll seriously consider switching to another bank.
I know TD has spent probably millions developing their system, using an internal e-commerce development team. I've seen them at career fairs recruiting to do this sort of development. But what they've come up with for the UI should be scrapped.
CIBC (Score:1)
If you do decide to switch banks, CIBC has an excellent pc banking web site. It's plain and simple, with a high S:N ratio. It's rarely down, and works with lynx. Transactions (even visa) are instantaneous, and the service is good, too.
TD Current Beta fixes problems (Score:2)
Re:Citibank (Score:3)
This person, who I would rather not name here, has since bought a dual-boot home computer from a small, local vendor, and is gradually falling off the edge into Linux.
BTW, I filed my taxes last year using TurboTax online -- in Linux -- and the small local bank where I keep both my personal and limo-business accounts runs platform-independent online banking and plans to keep it that way.
Let the bankers know you're out there, and that your choice of banks is at least in part dependent on their ability to serve your needs. This works especialy well with small local banks, and even better if you also own a business, even a small one, because business accounts are better profit sources than persoanl accounts.
- Robin
USBank (Score:1)
netcraft seems to be fubar right now.. so i can't check the actual server info.
TD Waterhouse and Fleet Homelink in Mozilla (Score:1)
A few weeks ago I attempted to place an order for a few shares of a stock and their webserver kept returning errors (some of which stated that the load was too high). Well, I tried calling their tech support line to see if my order had gone through but after being on hold for several minutes I was redirected to a message saying that I had reached a "non-existant telephone number at TD Waterhouse". Why their phone tree at their customer service line would redirect me to a non-existant number is beyond me. After unsuccessfully trying my order two more time and trying their customer service line again with the same results, I called their research line in an attempt talk with any human there and tell them their tech support line wasn't working. I received exceedingly rude service and the person I spoke with vehemently denied that their system was having any problems (his justification was that I got through to him, so how could their phone system be experiencing problems - I hate stupid people). Well, it turned out that three orders had been placed for the stock when I only wanted one and he also refused to let me cancel two of the orders because I hadn't spoken to an account representative first (regardless of the fact that I couldn't get through to a representative and the fact that the orders never showed up on my pending orders page). I've actually had other serious problems with TD Waterhouse in the past, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Suffice is to say, those were the last buy orders TD Waterhouse is ever going to see from me. I've opened up an account with BuyAndHold.com and the difference has just been amazing so far. I'm buying all new stock through BuyAndHold.com and slowly liquidating my TD Waterhouse holding as it becomes time to sell them.
On a different and better note, I've been using Fleet Homelink on Linux since it was BankBoston Homelink and it has always worked well for me. It seems like a well designed app and I've never seen it too heavily loaded to deal with me. It doesn't work in Mozilla M18 with PSM, but I suspect that may be a Mozilla problem and not Fleet's fault. A lot of people complain about Fleet in general for various reasons (I haven't had problems, personally), but their home banking website is one thing they definitely did right.
Re:Why? (Score:4)
If you don't want to use an operating system that the bank's -- or ecommerce etc -- system supports, that is your perogative. However, you can't expect them all to support every operating system there is. That simply isn't possible.
Actually, in the case of a web app, it IS possable to support any operating system that has a browser with SSL capabilities. All that's required is keeping the display reletivly simple and functional. I don't know of any browser that can't handle a form with the POST method. That's all that's really required.
Simple pages like that also place less load on the server. If the banks insist on a bunch of eye candy, perhaps they should start with a simple form like that as a functional prototype and keep it available for those who aren't using exactly the same version of browser as the web developer.
Interestingly, simple forms like that are also more accessible for the visually impared and more adaptable to WAP and PalmVII. Another OS in a partition won't help a blind person use a clueless web banking app that only likes the standard (non text to speech) version of their browser.
Re:Royal Bank of Canada (Score:1)
RBOC's website also does appear to be totally browser agnostic (with the caveat mentioned that it has to do HTTPS).
I also use it to import account activities into a format my accountant likes to see, which is hella easier than re-entering statements. =P
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
Re:It sux, but Unix/Linux users aren't important f (Score:2)
Key Bank is great but crashes Mozilla (Score:1)
Barclays fine for me (Score:2)
Smile are 100% online (well, they're the online arm of Cooperative Bank, but that's good enough) and have nice touchy-feely we-don't-invest-in-arms-dealers value... also work OK in Linux/Netscape but I've suffered Java related crashes from them in both Windows and Linux. Of course, it's worse in Windows because the whole OS can go down...
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Bank of America (Score:1)
I recently looked (Score:1)
bankrate.com is good source of bank info, I went with netbank for my newest account but haven't tested it yet with Linux (Only got freebsd installed at the moment on my UNIX systems, my wife has Mandrake on her computer, I may test that later). I'm using Summit Bank (www.summitbank.com) for one account, that works fine in FreeBSD, it's all web based, and checks for browser security, not OS.
The real problem is Quicken. All the banks trying to develop online technology are trying to fully develop thier ability to work with Quicken. And Quicken is somewhat a moving target with new versions every year. For online banking, Quicken is important, people are asking for full support from thier bank for Quicken a lot more than for Linux (or any other UNIX) support.
So, if you really want online banking in Linux, what you need to do is petition Quicken to release a Linux version. Then, banks will support it, because they are supporting one product, not multiple OS's.
I don't think there is an open source project (like gnucash) that quite supports "quicken protocol," nor do I believe Quicken will be likely to release a spec of thier protocol for someone to develop a free application that works as well as theres.
I for one would buy Quicken for Linux, if it was out.
Re:Stupidity of thinking the world could be ideal. (Score:1)
I just suggested we petition Quicken because it can probably be done much much much more quickly and easily. If your out for the best solution, your right, absolutely. I'll support you in idea, but I don't have the time or energy to help you do it. But I would be damn happy to see it ;-)
Fleet Homelink and x.com finance work w/ Lynx (Score:2)
Fleet Homelink [fleet.com] works just fine with Lynx and also Netscape on Linux. I'm not a big fan of big banks, but they've got their online banking stuff done right.
Also, x.com finance [x.com], which provides a no-fee checking account w/ Visa check card and ATM fee reimbursement if you keep a $100 minimum balance, works just fine with Lynx too. I have one of these accounts and keep a few hundred bucks in it for getting cash at ATM's where I'd be charged a fee. Fleet doesn't reimburse these fees, but x.com does.
I like FirstIB.com (Score:2)
Re:I like FirstIB.com (Score:1)
-l
Credit Union (Score:1)
Netbank, ADA (Score:1)
Also, their fees are reasonable. www.netbank.com
That being said, I wonder if there's a way to get these banks to comply, threatening them with a lawsuit over non-ADA (Disabilities act) compliance. Lynx is the only browser that does text-to-speech, which is what the blind will need.
Therefore, banks need to be lynx compatible or
get sued. Note that this is just idle rambling I am not a lawyer, etc.
But doesn't it crash your Netscape browser? (Score:2)
So, what are you guys doing under Linux to make Java work for you in a web browser?
Barclays is MS-centric, Lloyds TSB seems OK (Score:2)
Lloyds TSB is client-neutral, it seems. Their Verisign certificate is registered to their Unix group, which might explain it. On the other hand, when I first looked they were running Stronghold/Apache on Unix but now their secure service appears to have changed to use Netscape:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:59:47 GMT
Content-type: text/html
Last-modified: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:24:57 GMT
Is that still a Unix version of Netscape server, or they gone over to the dark side and now run NT like on their port 80 service?
Re:Barclays fine for me (Score:2)
Cheers. I'll tell my friend to try again with the original unmodified browser before his Id hack. Perhaps Barclays did eventually take his comments into account.
Banking (Score:2)
HSBC (Score:1)
Bank of Canada or something like that
starting this summer now that I've graduated.
The online-banking seems pretty good although I
don't use it nearly as much as their NetTrader
stuff. They both work without any problems with
Netscape 4.7x under Linux.
The NetTrader interface isn't as slick as the
Internet-Banking counterpart (and I think TD
Waterhouse has more features too) but it does what
I need and more.
My only real problem, although it is more amusing
than really a problem is that when I do call them
up that they answer in Cantonese (even though I
specifically dialed the English number
after speaking a bit in English, asking if I'd
rather speak in Cantonese
do that even if I dialed the Mandarin number...to
ask if I'd rather speak in Cantonese heheheh
also... (Score:1)
the HSBC NetTrader site) that it uses cgi-bin,
javascript, and frames.
Connecting with a 128-bit browser is also
required.
Re:Wells Fargo a possible choice. (Score:1)
Blah. You shouldn't have felt embarassed; the service should've popped up a flag telling you your encryption wasn't up to snuff. Instead it just failed on you.
The WFB site makes it pretty clear when you don't have strong enough encryption. They only require 40bit for everything but the Online Bill Pay.
They're pretty quick to verify new browswers as well. I upgraded to a point release of Navigator (the day it was released) and found it wouldn't work on their site. I mailed them asking about it. They replied that they were working on making sure the browswer didn't have any major bugs. I tired it again a couple days later and it worked just fine. Seems like they've got all their ducks in a row
Try changing your user agent... (Score:2)
This becomes a problem if the check is on a secure page, though, because I don't think junkbuster can proxy the SSL stuff... but I'm not sure. I ran into a similar problem at my previous employer.
(I now work for linux-friendly SGI, so I don't have to worry about that silliness anymore!)
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Re:Why? (Score:1)
When i write web pages, I pride myself that i can make a visually pleasing experience, but more importantly have it be viewable by the most people. -That- to me is skillfull web authoring.
Wells Fargo (Score:1)
Canadian bank (Score:1)
SFNB works w/o javascript or java (Score:2)
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Re:SFNB works w/o javascript or java (Score:2)
--Bob
O, Canada (Score:2)
That said, give me a fucking break. The percentage of people running Linux on their desktop is somewhere south of 1%, and of those, I dare say half have access to a Windows or Mac system on a reglar basis. Because of the enormous risks involved, banking software is developed and updated very, very slowly and conservatively. Any feature change or bug fix goes through several levels of testing and typically needs sign-off from four or five people before it's allowed into production. Even for, say, a form-validation script.
Sure, most web sites don't have platform-dependency problems (at least in regard to IE 4.x-5.x and Netscape 4.x). It's a shame they wrote such cranky code that it exposes the tiny incomatibilities between Netscape on Win32 and Netscape on *nix. All true.
But how many customers does lack of Linux support chase away from any web site? I mean, really? I mean, there are profitable web-based services out there that don't even support Macs. And Macs account for something like ten times the number of web users than all Unixes combined.
Chase is okay (Score:1)
And I've heard that Fleet Bank works as well.
President's Choice Financial works for me.. (Score:1)
Don't laugh, but the President's Choice Financial bank works like a charm, and they have 5% interest!!
I'm not kidding, I make $20 interest in a month on the same cash that earns me a whopping $0.30 in my ScotiaBank account.
NS/128-bit works fine, Konqueror looks like it would, but for a java/javascript issue (the only failing of Konqi is the javascript support..)
Anyway, check it out. It's awesome. I know they don't do commercial accounts yet, but they will be soon.
www.preschoicefinancial.com
Cheers,
Ben
Talk with your money (Score:2)
My bank does not use any client-side scripting, so as long as I have a client w/ 128-bit encyrption, all is fine. Remember, friends don't let friends use client-side scripting.
--weenie NT4 user: bite me!
Mozilla, TD Webbanking and CT EasyWEb (Score:2)
I wrote them and asked whats up and got no reply.
So I got all snotty-assed and mentioned that 3 companies that I am a majority stakeholder in (the ones I founded) put about $5M+ thru TD per year, so please get back to me. They then sent me some platitudes the like of which the poster mentioned.
Bitching about yet another Microsoft-supporting cronie company (YAM$SCC?) on irc got me a slap from Blizzard: "use M17 silly!".
And I did, and it worked great.
So for now, til TD fixes things, I'll be using mozilla for my webbanking. Mebbe by the time they fix it Mozilla will be ready for primetime and I wont have to switch around.
I hope they switch to CT's EasyWeb, its super fast compared to TDs overly flashy system and their ass-like JS overkill. Somehow I doubt their developpers are going to choose CT stuff over TD now legacy crap.
Im glad this hit
How long til M$ starts PAYING banks and other businesses to setup M$-only-compatible systems
on the net? Imagine no webbanking at all with Linux? Already Apple seems have some sort of alliance with M$ at least vs Linux - there's extremely limited QT availability for Linux (Xanim) and tons of
Will this become more prevalent? How many backroom bux are moving around supporting that kinda crap?
-Math
Wells Fargo a possible choice. (Score:1)
The technician had offered to give me a URL to download the latest Linux version of Netscape, but I declined. I was a little embarassed once I realized the failure was my fault, but none the less the service was admirable.
I personally dump any company that does not want to support my needs on my OS of choice. I recommend you consider doing the same. Vote with your check book or in this case the whole account.
Re:Banks in canada generally suck (Score:2)
im with scotia bank, if you want to use online banking, you have to load up there propriatary windows authorization client to do so. They do offer HTTPS however knowone at the bank seems to know about it.
My impression was that they'd just switched. Their website [scotiabank.ca] now only describes the ssl method, and the support people had no trouble getting me a password. You're right about the proprietary encryption filter though--it was obnoxious. I think the idea was to make sure everybody had 128 bit security back when you had to jump through hoops to get that version of netcape. So while I trust 56 bit ssl at least as much as the proprietary gadget they'd bought, their hearts may have been in the right place.
I've also been impressed with the signup mechanism. You call, ask to sign up, get authenticating secrets verbally, then they stick you in a queue where a computer tells you your temporary password. That way no employee sees or hears what it is. You then login and change it. Semi-instant gratification. :)
In any case, their ssl interface works fine under Linux/Netscape, probably because they avoid all the cute clientside scripting.
In contrast, I recently opened an account with Bank of America [bankofamerica.com] in part because they claimed to use SSL. They're even using JSP, but login in from Linux/Netscape causes an internal server error. Ouch. They said they were aware of the issue and were working on a fix; we'll see what that means in the next couple of weeks.
Another silly thing is that while you can sign up for BofA's online banking online, they snailmail you your login password, which seems an entirely unreasonable delay. It doesn't add anything to security either: searching someone's mail (after sniffing the application) is usually *easier* than tapping their phone.
Royal Bank (Score:1)
The Royal Bank has a beautiful online banking system that I use in Windows, and in Linux. It even works in Mozilla, when crypto support is available. Yay Royal Bank. www.royalbank.com [royalbank.com]
Re:Royal Bank (Score:1)
Uh, yes. Maybe I didn't, since I pointed to the Royal Bank of Canada's web site, and since the question was posed by someone apparently looking for a bank to replace his Toronto Dominion Bank, another Canadian bank.
Re:It sux, but Unix/Linux users aren't important f (Score:2)
As opposed to a coder who got into the business to promote every platform under the sun at the expense of her client's wishes?
-josh
Re:O, Canada (Score:2)
Online banking and other sites should work with JavaScript, CSS, and images turned off, and only with basic HTML. If not, the bank is doing something seriously wrong IMO, and they'll sooner or later lose a lot more than 1% of their customers.
Konqueror (Score:2)
Re:Not really incompatabilities... (Score:1)
-- Mishka
Merger with Canada Trust might help (Score:1)
Canada Trust and TD are merging, so perhaps you might get access to the excellent Canada Trust on-line banking. I've never had any compatibility problems, they do everything server-side (the way it ought to be). The only browser problem I've had was when they decided to go from 40 bit to 128 bit ssl, and I had to upgrade my browser (whoopee.)
Their on-line banking is also quite complete, I can pay all my bills, add companies (more companies than other banks), even do specialty stuff like change my address.
I've been generally quite happy with Canada Trust since I moved my bank account there after getting mad at CIBC at the tender age of 5. I hope the merger doesn't ruin Canada Trust.
Re:SFNB works w/o javascript or java (Score:2)
I was pleasantly surprised to see that SFNB seems to have implemented an ATM fee refund scheme as of about 6 months ago, too.
I do wish they had a slightly better deposit system -- notification that they've recieved and are processing deposits would be nice. AS it is you just kinda wait for it to show up in your balance, wondering if they ever got it. So it's not for folks without direct deposit for their paychecks...
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Re:CT (Score:1)
Re:Maybe if Linux had a browser that didn't SUCK.. (Score:1)
Re:I can answer to this (I'm a TD customer too) (Score:1)
Maybe if I get free time I'll do testing from IRIX and Solaris too.
I can answer to this (I'm a TD customer too) (Score:4)
I know it's frustrating, but they know what it's all about now.
standards support (Score:1)
There is a reason we want standards. Maybe you should request the bank support web standards and not filter clients based on the browser.
Re:Too bad it is not a US bank... (Score:2)
Re:Lloyds (Score:1)
It also helped that the design was done very early on before MS and Netscape really started botching things up. However making things as standards compliant as possible is sometimes alot harder than people realise and can really slow down initial roll-outs.
Wells Fargo (Score:1)
checks clear and the occasional 'crap, need more
money in checking!' transfer) with my Wells Fargo
account.
It works just fine with Netscape 4.7x for Linux,
even with Java and JavaScript off (which is how
I prefer to use browsers).
I even tried it using an HTTPS-enabled version of
Lynx while SSH'ed into my ISP and, after tricking Wells Fargo's servers into thinking I was using a particular version of a different model browser (ie, Netscape 4.7 and not Lynx), it seemed to work just fine!
I dunno if I'd do it too often because the site is harder to navigate using Lynx (sigh), but at least it works!
Re:Royal Bank of Canada (Score:2)
Re:smile (UK) (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
If you add to use their own software to do online banking with them, I would understand their point of view about not supporting Linux as "Yet another platform". But, when doing web stuff, you can do (almost) anything without proprietary extension for web banking (i.e. no need for Shockwave and similar products).
Mario.
SFNB -- *great* bank (Score:1)
Canada Trust(CT) and Toronto Dominion(TD) (Score:1)
anyway, I hope cooler heads at Toronto Doominion pervail, and the merger uses Canada Trust's technology for their web stuff.
wake up guys.
SFNB (Score:2)
http://www.sfnb.com/ [sfnb.com]
I'm now with CitiBank in the UK... very basic capabilities but it works (mostly). First-E (www.first-e.com) looks geek friendly (Java, PHP, etc.) but the security paranoia and the non-standard debit card aren't worth it.
Re:I can answer to this (I'm a TD customer too) (Score:1)
Well since they took months with no changes, turned me down for my mortgage anyways and were generally charging too much for too little I moved on!
HSBC has good web banking, although they just started with it a while back and it's still maturing. A month after I signed up their site suddenly suffered from MSCE javascript code too, this time i couldn't even log in at all. So I email them letting them know this and that I'm rather pissed because this is why I left TD Bank, I even had to ask if it was maybe the same guy doing the pages and he'd been hired at HSBC to spite us
HSBC were much more responsive to the errors however, they did fix them and I imagine they forced their coders to check the site out using Linux to make sure it worked, the offending javascript was still in the code but obviously fixed to work on all browsers.
Ahh well, ya try and explain to these kids nowadays that client side code should be used sparingly but they've been brainwashed it seems.
Re:standards support (Score:1)
It's like nobody has shown them server side includes or something
UK Banks: Barclays and Egg (Score:1)
Barclays are currently on the third version of their client: initially it was a Windows executable, then a Windows-specific java applet (which took an age to load, particularly on the modem I had at the time), and they're currently using a standard-ish web interface which works perfectly well under Linux Netscape (albeit with almost unreadably small fonts). It's very frames-based though, so probably wouldn't work on a non-graphical browser.
But are Barclays secure? Not really - they had a particularly bad moment earlier this year when they changed the server security and introduced a horrendous bug which meant that two customers who logged on at the same time would see each other's accounts. That iteration was rolled back, I've only stuck with them because I will will be moving out of the UK banking system soon anyway.
Egg, on the other hand, only support Windows and Macs. Their pages do not work under Netscape 4.7x, presumably because of the same Jvascript problems quoted elsewhere. However, their site is perfectly usable under Netscape 6 PR2 - whether it's really a good idea to use such early software for secure applications is moot, but hey. None of my money has disappeared yet.
Apparently Egg are about to revamp their site. I don't know what will happen then. Their attitude to security is also questionable, but as far as I know their site security hasn't been broken yet.
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In Canada, use CIBC (Score:1)
Now I don't know about any features that might be missing, or if the rest of CIBC's policies suit you, but the internet banking is certainly no problem - it's how I've paid all my bills for the past year.
Peter
CT (Score:2)
However, Canada Trust just merged with Toronto Dominion. With any luck, they'll both start using the Canada Trust web banking (EasyWeb).
Or if you'd prefer thier American subsidary... (Score:1)
Re:In Canada, use CIBC (Score:1)
cibc (Score:1)
Re:Recommend Canada Trust - they're the opposite (Score:1)
Most of the deployments I've seen have avoided breaking browser compatibility. It in use by over 40 credit unions in Canada as well as Citizens Bank ( http://www.citizensbank.ca/ [citizensbank.ca])
Vince
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Re:In Canada, use CIBC (Score:1)
Similar problem with my Employer (Score:1)
I sent an email to the webmaster explaining the problem (even providing links to the blackdown site, the output of my 'about:plugins' page, and a bunch of other information that would help take care of the matter). My response back was "Why dont you try using IE on linux and let me know if it works". This was the *webmaster* of a major IT contracting company!!! The cluelessness of some people amazes me. I have no problem giving away the name of the company.
Signal Corporation.
If anyone wants to contract through them and uses a desktop other than Windows, Mac, or Solaris, I *highly* suggest you think otherwise.
Works for me... (Score:2)
I do know that if you have <128 bit SSL, or have JavaScript turned off, it won't work. Other than that, it's fine. I'd prefer not having the JavaScript, but I can't have everything.
Now I only wish Konqueror could do it, I'll try it out again on Monday (KDE2 final release), and change the reported browser type if I have to. Konqueror let's you change it for specific websites, a very cool feature.
As for using Lynx, etc, I don't even think you can get 128 bit SSL for it, just "export grade" SSL. I'm glad they're requiring 128.
Besides, most Linux users I know use Netscape, (and SuSE 7.0 installs the 128 bit version by default) so the market for Lynx users is *extremely* small.
Geeks in banking apps (Score:4)
Royal Bank of Canada (Score:2)
Now, whether or not it will work with a text-based browser I don't know... I suppose that so long as your browser can make HTTPS connections you would be fine, as they don't appear to use javascript.
The fee is a little high; something like CDN$4 per month, plus there might be some transaction fees. But, if you sign up for telephone banking, you also get the online banking included, I believe.
shane.
Accessability? (Score:2)
The reason seems to be that unlike the random noncommercial or advertising sites, banks live under Federal regs give make disabled access regulations teeth.
5 w3c-valid HTML pages (Score:2)
Does w3c-valid HTML/Transitional count? If so, I hereby take up the challenge! Here goes:
E*Trade Bank (Score:3)
Just don't get me started about their brokerage accounts.
Re:I can answer to this (I'm a TD customer too) (Score:2)
Re:I recently looked (Score:2)
Not just a linux/netscape problem (Score:2)
Security..?!? (Score:3)
Basic point: No online banking scheme is secure.
Sub-point: Some are more secure than others.
If your bank is not using SSL for online banking, stop right now and save yourself some trouble. Call them up and make sure that web access to your account is completely disabled. Without a lot of checking (which would be more of a pain in the ass than solving your problem -while- using your old bank... details below), you aren't likely to know whether internet traffic to your bank is properly handled and filtered or if there's another host at their end which can packet sniff. If they're just a colo or a virtual host on someone's webfarm, anyone else with an account on the same net can get curious.
If they use SSL, you're still not guaranteed security but it's at least not a completely trivial thing to get your account information. Then you get into OS security and how intelligent the hosting ISP -really- is when it comes to filtering at their routers. I've seen some that are. I've seen none that are vehemently pro-active about it. I'm fairly certain that many NT/Lucent shops out there are content to merely keep the frequency of reboots as low as possible. Sometimes a customer will want to keep using a piece of software that is dependant upon an outdated version of an OS (read: as secure as swiss cheese). That's where you really get into the necessity for filtering at the routers so that only the traffic that's absolutely necessary gets through.
Other posters have noted that there are protocols which are quite well suited for everything that could be needed for a (reasonably) secure and usable online banking transaction. You seem to understand the JavaScript used by this bank. If you telnet in to the server handling these transactions (and hopefully need to authenticate yourself via SSL) you can probably manually input any function you wish to call. I've not had personal experience with it, but I believe C-Kermit compiled with OpenSSL support will allow you to pull this off. It's all just bits in the end, and most of the time it's even ASCII. I've used similar methods to deal with mail via pop3 (and to a lesser extent smtp) for years. I didn't have a home base to read and save email onto, so learning a bit of the protocol was much easier than constantly installing and deleting mail clients. We don't need no stinking national ISP's! =)
Hope this helps some...
Lanir
Re:Royal Bank of Canada (Score:2)
My bank is BMO (Score:2)
It just hasn't ... so far (knock on fake wood laminate).
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Re:Not really incompatabilities... (Score:2)
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Re:From a console? Get real... (Score:2)
If you can make it look good too, that's a big bonus, but not the necessity.
Ultimately, however, this pigheadedness is going to cost them. Bank of Montreal has announced wireless support ... What's tha chance that you're really gonna want to run JavaScript on a Palm, or your cellphone??
Sooner or later they'll figure out that simple, portable code is the way to support everything that's going to be out there, a few years from now. Then they'll have to play catchup with the banks that did proper design work from the start.
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Re:Citibank is also a known spammer (Score:2)
Citibank (Score:5)
UBOC (Score:3)
Doesn't do you much good if you aren't in California, and Toronto ain't.
There is an increasing presence of "ActiveX" controls (I think that's what they are) on web pages -- they simply will not work with non-MS products.
It really is a shame to see the internet, paid for with taxes, much of it built for free in spare time, by fairly selfless people, as a open and standards compliant means of communication, get bastardized by the scum at microsoft.
But I completely agree that if you can find another bank that has employees with enough skill to make their web presence platform neutral, go for it.
Make sure you let the previous bank know why you left.
web banking/online banking NOT THE SAME (Score:2)
Web based banking over ssl, and downloading transactions to a personal finance app are different subjects that should be considered separately--I don't see that going on in this discussion. My experience is that most of the major banks that I would choose from to handle my accounts, already do web-based online banking just fine. Looking at the comments here I see that there are a few exceptions in the world. But there is an EASY solution to this problem: don't bank with these fuckhead companies and be sure to tell them why you're withdrawing all your money.
That leaves the second problem: none of the banks, Netscape friendly or otherwise, currently allow direct, online banking from your personal finance app -unless it is Quicken or Money on Mac or Windows. Currently all banks screw over Linux/BSD/SOlaris/etc. users. And also they screw over the many Macintosh users who have sworn to never be reamed by Intuit again like they were by the Y2K bug in Quicken for Mac. Mac being a Y2K safe platform, this failure was just an intolerable example of shoddiness, and I certainly understand a Mac user vowing never to buy an Intuit product again.
It has also not yet been said that there's NO GOOD REASON for this exclusiveness and active discrimination. The data format that direct online banking uses is Open and documented. It's called OFX. You can look it up and build your own client for it.
And there is ALSO a Java application available right now to download and enter your OFX formatted data to your machine regardless of whether you use Windows, Mac, Linux, *BSD, Solaris or any other OS with a upto date JAVA VM. It's called Moneydance --specifically the 3.0ALPHA version.
It's not in the regular download area yet for Moneydance at www.seanreilley.com/moneydance. You have to ask for it, but it does exist and I suspect its ALPLHA status has mainly to do with the refusal of the banks to connect to their online servers. You will also have to pay 25 dollars to enable the OFX banking features it has. Otherwise you can use it free of charge.
It is this refusal by the banks to allow non-Intuit non-MS clients to connect that has to be focussed on and overcome. A FTC investigation into cartel style collusion between Intuit and the banks might not be too wacky of an idea at some point. ALways remember this--YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER! And you are NOT asking them to do something special for you.
PLease contact your bank's online banking dept. (that little button that says "contact us") and request that Moneydance be allowed to connect to their servers-whether you actually plan to buy the fully function Moneydance 3 or not. There is no other way yet availble for you to do direct online banking from Linux or BSD and if they are blocking a closed source commercial Java app that is OFX compliant they will certainly block GnuCash when/if OFX support is added to it. You don't get your rights by always being polite and non-confrontational. It can be easy to forget that movements like the civil rights push in the 60s pissed off and upset a lot of semi-well meaning white people who were not overtly racist and didn't actively support apartheid laws and parties. We have rushed to smoothe over the rougher edges in our cultural memory, but if you look back at the documents of the civil rights era, you can see that civil rights were not achieved by saintly black people sending in a few well-written, poignant essays into their local newspapers editorial section and parading quietly and dispersing when told to by the police. Sometimes you do have to get in their faces and demand fair and equal treatment.
Too bad it is not a US bank... (Score:3)
Summit bank (Score:2)
All this proves is that Netscape must die (Score:2)
Having lived the frustration of dealing with all the bugs of Netscape, I sympathize with the bank. I know that I finally gave up and barely tested under Netscape for Windows, much less Netscape for any other operating system.
Instead of blaming the bank (and anyone who refuses to deal with crap software), how about if the Unix world finally writes a decent browser? And that may or may not be Mozilla ("may not" seems more likely based on what I've seen so far). The browser issue is making a laughingstock of the whole OSS movement ("heck, they can't even write a decent browser").
--
Different aspects of TD Bank????? (Score:2)
The Good Old WWW (Score:3)
Does onybody remember when the Web was supposed to be the thing that made OS irrelevant, the thing that was supposed to be platform-independant?
Doesn't the W3C release standards to promote this effect?
And doesn't MS and Netscape blatently ignore these standards (specifically to create a platform-dependant experience, in the case of MS a Windows-dependant experience...)
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I lay the blame for ruining the interoperability of the web squarely on the major browser writers.
Who would have thought that Free (as in beer) software from companies with an agenda could do so much damage?
Re:5 w3c-valid HTML pages (Score:2)
anybrowser.org failed with a misues of a CENTER tag that is not supposed to be in HTML 4.0
Your homepage was OK.
Microsoft wasn't even close, but generated hundreds of errors and warnings.
Cambridge University was great! No complaints at all.
________________
It sux, but Unix/Linux users aren't important for (Score:2)
The total number of non Windows using clients that bank has is probably very small. They really couldn't care, plus the bank's systems are probably implemented by some coder who just got into the business for the money, doesn't probalby know much either, and he/they jsut don't want to bother. They did what the book told them for implementing this stuff, and that's enough.
It's really bad for free OS people, but what can you do? Joe Schmoe out there doesn't care about what OS he uses.
Bank of Montreal (Score:2)
I like how easy it is to pay all of my bills! I don't have to leave the house! I can stay in and keep being a computer geek! Ya!
Shifter